Poll

are you going bare?

Vibrams
2 (15.4%)
Barefoot
4 (30.8%)
Mocs
2 (15.4%)
Sandals
0 (0%)
Not attending
5 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Author Topic: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??  (Read 48795 times)

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Offline Parker Reid

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OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« on: September 25, 2010, 03:23:47 am »
Whos gonna be in NYC for the barefoot run?

Offline djr_81

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2010, 06:59:20 am »
rofl I'm sorry I just f**ked up your poll. I just read the title and the poll before I read your post >.> I'm afraid I'm not going to be there.
I reset it, as yours was the only vote, and changed it so people can modify their vote.

I didn't realize they were holding a barefoot run in the city. When/where?
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Offline Parker Reid

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2010, 08:55:07 am »
Announcing the
1st Annual New York City Barefoot Run
on
Sunday, October 10th
www.nycBarefootRun.com


It's about time that minimalist and barefoot runners had our own run.  Well, now we do.  We invite all barefoot, minimalist, or curious runners to join us for the 1st Annual New York City Barefoot Run on Sunday, October 10th at beautiful Governors Island in New York Harbor.  More than just a run, this is a whole weekend of events to understand the benefits of barefoot -- walking or running.  Saturday clinics, talks and presentations, a runners party, and oh yeah, there's a run too.
Come meet other leading barefoot runners, including:
Dan Lieberman, Harvard professor studying the science of running
Barefoot Ted, larger-than-life barefoot runner in the best-seller Born to Run
Jason Robillard, barefoot ultramarathoner, author of The Barefoot Running Book
Erwan Le Corre, founder of MovNat and 20-year barefoot running veteran
Daniel Howell, author of The Barefoot Book
John Durant, event host and founder of Barefoot Runners NYC
Participate in a totally unique race format: Run your distance
Everyone starts together, then run as many loops around the island (2.1 miles) as is right for you
Each runner will have to decide when to stop -- emphasizing the importance of listening to your feet and body
Wear VFFs, other minimalist shoes, or go barefoot...or even just wear normal sneakers
* Beginners are encouraged to walk 1 loop of the island *
Come cheer on Jason Robillard as he runs a barefoot marathon!
The events will last throughout the weekend
Saturday barefoot clinics in Central Park
Saturday evening Lieberman talk and panel discussion at the Terra Plana store
Sunday morning run at Governors Island
More clinics and product demonstrations after the run
The location is beautiful Governors Island in New York Harbor, with stunning views of
The Statue of Liberty
Lower Manhattan
Brooklyn and the Brooklyn Bridge
Thank you to our lead sponsor, Terra Plana's Vivobarefoot, for being so supportive of the run in its first year!
Registration for this event is limited to 500 runners.  That sounds like a lot, but runs fill up quickly in NYC, so it's really not -- register soon.  We have people coming in from North Carolina, Boston, New Mexico, Seattle, Michigan, and...Sweden.  If you're coming into town on a budget, contact us and we will try to arrange for a member of Barefoot Runners NYC to host you.

Offline Ioanna

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2010, 09:43:29 am »
have fun!

what is the running surface? is it cleaned (glass, etc)?

Offline Parker Reid

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2010, 09:59:19 am »
Im sure its in the streets and people will be wearing vibrams and such but im also sure some will be going bare, dodging glass, rocks etc. gotta have tough skin, ha.

Offline PaleoPhil

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>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
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Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline wodgina

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Offline wodgina

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2010, 12:04:46 pm »
Check out his foot skills.

The first thing I noticed when I started trail running with my five fingers was you could not run sloppy or else you would hurt yourself. Then I started to really enjoy the foot work and concentrating, really fun skipping around objects and looking where to put your feet. The terrain forces you to slow down and then you can open up on the smooth sections. Very paleo compared to all out running.
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Offline majormark

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2010, 05:34:52 pm »

I think once the skin on your feet hardens, you don't need to be as careful when running barefoot.

Maybe this topic should be in the Exercise / Bodybuilding section btw.


Offline djr_81

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2010, 07:41:00 pm »
Maybe this topic should be in the Exercise / Bodybuilding section btw.

Agreed. It's been moved there. :)

This sounds like a fun event. I can't make it this year but hopefully it's a success and they hold it again next year so I can attend. :)
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Offline chucky

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2010, 11:25:40 pm »
Way cool. Speaking of John Durant, Paleo Dude: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/265602/february-22-2010/exclusive---backstage-with-john-durant

Was that a right link you gave ? Anyway, the paleo man was looking porn on the last challenge so another +1

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2010, 12:07:44 am »
I've been pretty much barefoot for about 3 years now.  I walk about 4-5 miles every couple of days along a river wash with a paved bicycle path.  It is strewn with small rocks, broken glass, old sofas, and other trash.  Being black pavement it can also get very hot.  At 60 I'm not much inot running but have been known to break into a jog now and again.

It took over a year, but my feet toughened up to the point that I can tollerate and even enjoy the hot pavement (except on the very hottest days when temps are over 100F (38C)), and other than the occasional glass shard, I've had no problems.  When I do get a glass shard, I've found it easy to just stop, pull it out, and then resume my trek.  I now detest wearing shoes and only put them on when I aboslutely have too.  I carry flip-flops in the car and wear them when footwear is required.  The only time I wear shoes at home is when doing metal work on the lathe or mill.  The metal swarf cuts like a razor and little metal slivers are hard to see and their rough edges make them difficult to remove.

As others have mentioned, I've found that over time I've come to walk differently.  My feet naturally hit the ground in a completely different way than when wearing shoes.  Much lighter heal strike and toes spread just before weight is rolled onto ball of foot.  When running, toes spread, ball of foot hits the ground, heal comes down lightly, then I spring off ball of foot and toes for the next stride. I now find that shoes restrict my body's natural fluid movement and when I must wear them my feet feel like they are trussed up in splints and my body is forced to compensate for the stiffness.

Lex

Offline Josh

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2010, 12:21:12 am »
Have you tried any minimal shoes for when you do have to use them Lex? If I was in the states, I'd have bought soft stars, but didn't want the hassle so sticking to vivo's

http://www.softstarshoes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=43

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2010, 12:33:55 am »
Was that a right link you gave ? Anyway, the paleo man was looking porn on the last challenge so another +1
Yes, that's John the "Paleo Man." He was also featured in a NYT article on the Paleo diet, as he's also a member of the NYC Paleo diet group: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/fashion/10caveman.html

I think once the skin on your feet hardens, you don't need to be as careful when running barefoot. ...
Some of the leading barefooters (like Barefoot Ted, if I recall correctly) have reported that their soles didn't harden, so Lex's contradictory report is interesting. Maybe they mean their soles don't get really hard, just a little tougher or something like that?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Michael

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2010, 01:04:47 am »
I've been pretty much barefoot for about 3 years now....

Great report Lex, thanks!  I didn't realise you were also a long-standing convert to the barefoot movement!  I suppose I should've guessed considering your wisdom in most matters.

That's interesting to read of the change to your walking pattern as well as running.  I haven't read of this before.  I think it's a good suggestion from Josh re: trying minimal shoes for occasions when footwear is necessary.  I suspect for other times that, once truly barefoot, one would have no desire to wear ANY form of shoe.  I'm still using VFFs, VivoBarefoots etc myself as I don't see much opportunity for being totally barefoot.  I am keen to try it for my walks/runs in nature, however, and your experiences spurn me on further.

Some of the leading barefooters (like Barefoot Ted, if I recall correctly) have reported that their soles didn't harden, so Lex's contradictory report is interesting. Maybe they mean their soles don't get really hard, just a little tougher or something like that?

Yes, I seem to recall Barefoot Ken Bob stating the same (Funny how they all prefix their name with 'Barefoot' like it's some religious cult eg Father Ted!)  :)  A good friend of mine who spends his life travelling the world, working on organic farms etc tends to naturally go barefoot when hiking in the mountains, running, walking great distances etc.  I can confirm that the soles of his feet are hard and rough like leather!
 
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Offline miles

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2010, 02:03:41 am »
As others have mentioned, I've found that over time I've come to walk differently.  My feet naturally hit the ground in a completely different way than when wearing shoes.  Much lighter heal strike and toes spread just before weight is rolled onto ball of foot.  When running, toes spread, ball of foot hits the ground, heal comes down lightly, then I spring off ball of foot and toes for the next stride. I now find that shoes restrict my body's natural fluid movement and when I must wear them my feet feel like they are trussed up in splints and my body is forced to compensate for the stiffness.

Lex

I will most of the time walk forefoot-first, in addition to doing so when running.
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Offline Sully

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2010, 03:57:03 am »
I like being bare foot. I go to parks sometimes, but there are sometimes unnatural things in the woods and parks here, glass etc.

Bare foot on cement I wouldn't recommend to anyone though.


Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2010, 04:30:07 am »
I will most of the time walk forefoot-first, in addition to doing so when running.
Thanks for the report, Miles. This is a subject that first briefly piqued my curiosity many years ago when I was watching a detective show or movie on TV in which the hero's sidekick was a Native American (I can't remember the name of the show, unfortunately). The Native American looked at the killer's footprints in sand in the desert and said that he was a native. The hero asked how he knew and the sidekick said he could tell because the footprints showed he walked "toes first." It amazed me to think that Native Americans might walk in an opposite fashion to other Americans, but it was before the Internet, so I couldn't look up anything about it and I forgot about it for a while.

Then the phenomenon of barefoot walking started to pop up on the Internet, which reminded me of that "toes first" comment. I looked into it and found that all infants start out walking toes first. However, I since have also found that people who have apparently been walking barefoot their whole lives, such as in Africa, appear to walk heel-and-midfoot-first (though with a lighter heel strike, as Lex describes) and I've found in my own barefoot and barefoot-style-shoe walking that I still strike heel-and-midfoot-first, rather than forefoot first. As a matter of fact, I don't even jog forefoot-first (it's more of a flat-footed plant) and only find myself striking forefoot-first when sprinting at high speeds.

So I haven't found much evidence of forefoot-walking (aka fox walking) among adults except in special circumstances like creeping up on animals while hunting and during dances (such as the barefooted dancing of the Zhu/wasi Bushmen and the moccasined-dancing of Native Americans). Have you found evidence of everyday forefoot-walking among adults?

I tried forcing myself to forefoot-walk and forefoot-jog to see what it would be like and found that my toes and forefoot became quite sore. However, this could be due a combination of weak connective tissues from autoimmune damage and nutritional deficiencies that stretch back to conception, rather than to forefoot walking being inherently unnatural.


...Yes, I seem to recall Barefoot Ken Bob stating the same (Funny how they all prefix their name with 'Barefoot' like it's some religious cult eg Father Ted!)  :)  A good friend of mine who spends his life travelling the world, working on organic farms etc tends to naturally go barefoot when hiking in the mountains, running, walking great distances etc.  I can confirm that the soles of his feet are hard and rough like leather!
 
It may have been Ken Bob I was thinking of...I know it was at least one if not more of the fellows with "barefoot" in their name.  ;D I do remember multiple people reporting this, but now I have multiple reports contradicting this, so this is an interesting puzzle. My best current guess is that the other barefooters were just calming fears that barefoot running is too dangerous unless your feet are already rock-hard.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline raw-al

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2010, 06:34:48 am »
Been enjoying walking barefoot as much as possible for the last year. Not at work, but I don't work that much, (standby) so it's easy.
Concrete is not good and hot pavement is really not good but there is a place near the house where I can walk in the sand which is bonus.

I get splinters at home as one of my hobbys is woodworking, so I am set up for the splinters. I have a jeweler's loup to see them and a sharp tweezer and some really nice, very sharp xacto blades to do the surgery.

I noticed a couple of young girls (18 or so) in the neighbourhood walking/running BF.

The old medical sciences recommend it as there are places on the feet that need the massage and the Chinese talk of meridians that travel through the body and originate in the feet. Shoes give you repetitive strain type of injuries despite what the advertisement say. My feet are much stronger and healthier and more solid.

PP,
The moccasins that the Indians wore must have been nice. Do you know anything about them? Did they put the fur on the inside or outside? My Muskrat hat is awesome in the winter. Nothing even comes close. Sweat in -35 degrees C

BTW I will not be at the run. I voted BF as I didn't RTFQ.  ;D
Cheers
Al

Offline miles

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2010, 08:20:44 am »
BTW I will not be at the run. I voted BF as I didn't RTFQ.  ;D

Heh I did this too but Djr reset it as I was the only voter.

"Bare foot on cement I wouldn't recommend to anyone though." -'Sully'
"Concrete is not good and hot pavement is really not good but there is a place near the house where I can walk in the sand which is bonus." -'Raw-al'

I have no problem with either.

"Have you found evidence of everyday forefoot-walking among adults?" -'PaleoPhil'

I don't have any evidence of others doing so no... This is just how I walk as it's the most effective for me most of the time. For speed, comfort etc... If I've just broken out of a hard run I might walk heels first for a bit to rest, but then move back to forefoot after a bit. If I've just eaten a load of food and I'm walking somewhere soon after I also have walked on my heels first.

I suppose I might be able to film my walking/running barefoot somehow to show you, if I can find a camera >.>

I dunno wtf midfoot is, sounds like bs, although I've heard lots of people say it. I don't see how you can walk midfoot, unless your foot is shaped like the shoe in the attached image.. When I say forefoot I don't mean staying on my tip-toes...



« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 08:26:50 am by miles »
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Offline raw-al

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2010, 08:27:09 am »
I have walked on my forefoot first since I saw some Martial arts movie, maybe Karate Kid. Grasshopper not want rip rice paper.
Cheers
Al

Offline djr_81

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2010, 07:23:11 pm »
I don't have any evidence of others doing so no... This is just how I walk as it's the most effective for me most of the time. For speed, comfort etc... If I've just broken out of a hard run I might walk heels first for a bit to rest, but then move back to forefoot after a bit. If I've just eaten a load of food and I'm walking somewhere soon after I also have walked on my heels first.
I do the same. If I'm in a hurry and don't think about it I sometimes start out heel-striking but quickly switch over when I notice the impact on the ground.

Quote
I dunno wtf midfoot is, sounds like bs, although I've heard lots of people say it. I don't see how you can walk midfoot, unless your foot is shaped like the shoe in the attached image.. When I say forefoot I don't mean staying on my tip-toes...
Maybe they mean the very back of the ball of the foot? Or more of a flat strike where the ball hits a moment before, or at the same time, as the heel?
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Offline miles

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2010, 11:22:11 pm »
If the forefoot hits a moment before the heel, that's forefoot imo.
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Offline djr_81

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2010, 12:47:11 am »
If the forefoot hits a moment before the heel, that's forefoot imo.
While I agree with you I'm trying to rationalize their description. ;)
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Offline lex_rooker

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Re: OH YEAH! barefoot run!!! whos going??
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2010, 01:31:12 am »
Josh,
Yes, I’ve tried the minimalist footwear.  I have a couple of pairs of Vibram 5 Fingers and don’t like them much.  They helped early on when running and my feet were still tender, but I soon abandoned them as I preferred the feel of the different textures and temperatures on my feet.

The dramatic change in footstrike pattern made a huge difference as well.  When I first started barefoot, I would wear the skin off the soles of my feet in a very short distance.  My feet would become very tender and I’d have to wait a week before walking again, at which point I’d quickly wear away the skin again and feet would again become sore.  Over time, my footstrike and gait changed, there was much less wear on the skin and my soles held up longer and longer.  I also suspect that my body reacted to the irritation by building replacement skin faster as well.  This whole thing took a bit of dedication and over a year before I could easily walk 10 miles or more on asphalt and/or concrete before I notice any thinning of my soles.  Asphalt and concrete are rather abrasive so they will eventually cause noticeable thinning, but I can now walk on gravel, dirt trails, and paths for hours without any problems at all.

Very hot pavement.  What is unbearably hot to most people is nice and warm to me.  It takes a pretty hot day for black asphalt to get too hot for me to walk on, and even then I can usually manage it for some distance as long as I can keep moving.  My feet now cool off between footstrikes enough that I can walk comfortably as long as I’m in motion. I can’t prove it but have a sneaking suspicion that circulation in my feet has increased a good bit and it carries off the heat more rapidly as well.  I can stand still very comfortably as long as the pavement is 125F or less.  At 140F I have to keep a lively step and at 150 or above it becomes uncomfortable.  At 160F or above I can cross a street but any distance and I risk blisters.

Raw-Al,
I do plenty of woodworking (table saw, routing, hand plane, you name it) and almost never wear shoes.  Wood splinters just don’t get through my soles anymore like they used too. Can’t remember the last time I got a wood splinter in my foot.  Metal working is another matter altogether.  Metal slivers are sharp as needles and barbed like fishhooks.  I’ve had to use a 45 power microscope to find the little devils and some just won’t come out until they fester – not pleasant.  Hence, I wear full foot armor, long pants, and a leather apron when working on the metal lathe or mill.

Walking on glass has not proven to be as big an event as expected.  Yes, I will get a shard impaled in my foot on the rare occasion, but they are quickly and easily removed as they seldom go very deep.  With the change in footstrike, my feet can now quickly shift position if they feel a puncture.  This keeps the glass or other sharp object from embedding very deeply and they are easily pulled out.  I’ve never had a glass shard that I couldn’t remove in a couple seconds.  I usually don’t even have to sit down or even look at it, just reach down, feel for it, and pull it out.  I then resume whatever I was doing without giving it another thought.

Miles and DJR,
I read that a forefoot strike was the natural way to walk barefoot so tried to force myself to walk that way.  Over time I gave up the quest as my body just didn’t want to do it on normal surfaces.  It naturally seemed to want a light heal strike then a roll onto the ball of the foot with the toes spread followed by a push-off from the forefoot and toes.

When running ( if you can call what I do running)  my body does automatically convert to a forefoot strike.  As my foot comes down, toes spread, ball of foot hits first quickly followed by toes, foot rolls back lightly onto heal as it absorbs shock and then forefoot and toes push off for the next stride.

My gait will also change to forefoot strike first when walking on crushed gravel or other very uneven surfaces, but on solid surfaces like dirt, grass, asphalt, and concrete my normal gait is a light heal strike first.

Lex

 

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