Author Topic: Constipation  (Read 32550 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2010, 08:03:15 pm »
A) Lex is not truly 100% ZC (he eats carb-containing liver) and B) he has repeatedly recommended that other people should not emulate him, but instead include some plant foods in their diet and C) I didn't suggest that Lex isn't strongly pro-near-ZC, just that he isn't both 100% ZC and advocates it for all. My question was who fits that bill. Yet another straw man from you. One of the things I'm tired of is the lumping together of VLCers with ZCers and the painting of all of us with the same brush.


Lex has in the past been fanatically against carbs, along with several other RZC proponents. At one point early on in the forum, the only moderate RZCer was Craig. While william has left, there are still some hardline stances among some RZCers. VLC doesn`t really accurately describe those who are anti-carbs - just like rawists who sometimes eat a few cooked foods for social reasons are still called rawists, so those who eat a few carbs but not for health-related reasons can not really be called VLCers.

As for RZC and liver, that`s just rubbish. When others refer to RZC, they don`t really mean no carbs - they mean no plant foods, so someone who eats only animal foods including raw liver is still RZC. Perhaps you could come up with a better term to describe those against plant foods.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 08:16:09 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2010, 08:15:05 pm »
When others refer to RZC, they don`t really mean no carbs - they mean no plant foods, so someone who eats only animal foods including raw liver is still RZC. Perhaps you could come up with a better term to describe those against plant foods.
"Zero-plant" is a better description.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2010, 09:35:47 pm »
"Follow those who seek the truth, run from those who claim to have found it."
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline MaximilianKohler

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2010, 03:46:24 am »
Thanks for clearing up this ZC diet. I was puzzled when people were suggesting you couldn't eat liver or eggs...

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2010, 10:35:36 am »
Lex has in the past been fanatically against carbs, along with several other RZC proponents.

Gosh Tyler, where did I give the impression that I'm fanatically against carbs? True, I've argued valiantly against colon flushes, using sugar laden fruits in place of water, and other naturopathic nonsense, but never against including some carbs as part of your diet.

I think you'll find several posts where I recommend "mostly red meat and the fat from red meat animals with a small salad and possibly a piece of fruit each day".  This might well be described as a low carb or even a very low carb protocol, but I'd hardly label it as fanatically against carbs.

I've also stated very plainly that at this time I include no carbs in my PERSONAL diet and it is working very well for me, BUT, if I find that problems start to develop then I will make whatever change seems appropriate in a heartbeat as I'm all about what works for me in my daily life, not what someone guru proclaims to be the current dietary holy grail.

Lex

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2010, 11:15:53 am »
"Zero-plant" is a better description.
Yes, or raw carnivore or RVLC or RLC or RAF. I think it's time to bury "ZC". Even the owner of the ZIOH forum gave up 100% adherence to it, last I heard.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline ezekiel

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2010, 11:23:45 am »
I remember Lex saying before that he doesn't want to say what he is doing is best, because he remembers saying the same for the vegan diet. In which most of us have tried an came to the conclusion that it wasn't best.

I like Lex's open mind, what he is doing now works for him, he doesn't argue that there could be flaws, but until he encounters a problem, he will remain on his current diet because its working for him and giving good results.

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2010, 06:49:46 pm »
Gosh Tyler, where did I give the impression that I'm fanatically against carbs? True, I've argued valiantly against colon flushes, using sugar laden fruits in place of water, and other naturopathic nonsense, but never against including some carbs as part of your diet.

I think you'll find several posts where I recommend "mostly red meat and the fat from red meat animals with a small salad and possibly a piece of fruit each day".  This might well be described as a low carb or even a very low carb protocol, but I'd hardly label it as fanatically against carbs.

I've also stated very plainly that at this time I include no carbs in my PERSONAL diet and it is working very well for me, BUT, if I find that problems start to develop then I will make whatever change seems appropriate in a heartbeat as I'm all about what works for me in my daily life, not what someone guru proclaims to be the current dietary holy grail.

Lex

Funny, colong cleansing and juice fasting has been with out a doubt the biggest improver of my health
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2010, 11:58:20 pm »
Funny, colong cleansing and juice fasting has been with out a doubt the biggest improver of my health

I suppose it is a matter of scale.  I was a vegan for 20 years.  I did colon cleanses religiously and drank copious quantities of juice.  I drank at least a pint of mixed green juice every day and would go through a 50 lb sack of organic carrots every week.  I grew wheat grass by the flat and usually had at least 100 sq. ft. of my patio committed to wheat grass production at any given time.  I made and consumed rejuvilac, a lightly fermented raw tea made from soaking grain.  My garage looked like a commercial sprouting operation as I consumed large amounts of fermented nut cheeses and sprouts of all kinds. In short, I did everything that all the gurus said I should do.

What did I get for my trouble?  For the first 5 years or so I felt better than I had when consuming a normal SAD diet so I was convinced that I’d found the true path.  However, from that point on things started to go down hill.  Little things at first and then as time progressed bigger an bigger problems surfaced.  I had constant gas and foul smelling stools.  I was cold all the time and had to wear a sweater in the summer.  I got migraine headaches several times per month that were so severe that I’d have to go to bed with a heating pad and pillow over my face for 2 days at a time.  I lost the enamel on my teeth.  I lost bone density in my jaw to the point that my dentist said I was going to lose my teeth and would need full dentures within a few years.   My blood pressure rose to 150 or 95, my fasting blood sugar rose to 140, my weight rose to 215+, my waist went from 32” to 40”, my cholesterol rose to 250+, I lost a good bit of my hair, and my prostate started to give me problems and I was only in my late 40’s, but I persevered because the books and gurus said I was doing all the right things.  All the gurus told me my problems were clearly ‘detox’ issues.  That I was clearly having ‘healing crisis’ as my body was finally able to get to all that nasty stuff that had been stored in my fat for 20 years.  Never mind that I was adding weight not losing it.  Gurus never let facts get in the way of their religious devotion to their beliefs.

At age 50 I gave up.  My teeth were loose and the dentist wanted to pull them.  My doctor wanted me on cholesterol, blood pressure, and diabetes medication.  My nose was always running and I felt terrible all the time.  No energy and most of the time I just didn’t want to do anything.  Emotions were a real roller coaster as well.  One day I’d be feeling high and excited about something and then for the next week I’d be in the dumps and not want to get out of bed.  Upon close examination it seemed to me that it had to be my diet that was causing the trouble as everyone around me was doing much better than I was and the only thing different was what I was eating.  I went back to SAD.

Upon returning to SAD I did start to feel a bit better.  Some energy returned and my mood was a little better.  Unfortunately my teeth were still loose, and all my lab tests continued to show that I still needed medications for the previously diagnosed problems.  I didn’t want to take meds so I told my doctor I was going to look for another solution.  He warned me that if I didn’t do something soon it would be to late as I was a heart attack or stroke just waiting to happen.

It was then that I ran across the BeyondVeg website, Raymond Auddett’s “Neanderthin” book, and other paleo resources, and decided to give paleo a shot.  A couple of years later I found TylerDurden’s original Yahoo Group and the rest of my journey is fairly well documented here in my journal.

Anyway, I learned that short term improvements (remember I felt great for the first 5 years or so on the vegan diet) can happen from a dietary change, and this can be followed by disastrous long term results.  I will no longer tell you that what I am doing is the right path.  What I now say is that here’s what I’m doing, here’s how long I’ve been doing it, and here are my results.  I report both the good and the bad as, unlike the guru’s, I eat to best fuel my body and not as a religious commitment.

If you think colon cleanses and juicing are working for you, more power to you.  Unfortunately, I, and others like me have learned the hard way that this is not a viable long term solution.

Lex

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2010, 12:06:30 am »
That was a great read, I think we've been down similar roads. Atleast we have similar attitudes. I for one, wont say that RPD is 'right' simply because I've made that mistake before. Like you I was sooo sure that raw vegan was the way to go at some point.

I'm not saying juicing and colon cleanses is something everyone should do regularly. But for beginners it can definitely jump start the healing process and is quiet effective. My belief is that once you've done a few colon cleanses and a few fasts you're good to go and don't have to do any more if you stick to your diet.
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2010, 12:57:08 am »
I've also stated very plainly that at this time I include no carbs in my PERSONAL diet and it is working very well for me
What about kidney stones? They are correlated with strict ZC.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2010, 10:55:54 am »
What about kidney stones? They are correlated with strict ZC.

Well, not exactly.  They are correlated with strict ZC where fluid intake is restricted and closely managed as part of the overall protocol when a ketogenic diet is used to control epilepsy.  In this case there does seem to be a 6% increase in the incidents of kidney stones over the general population.

Based on my experience, my father's experience, my son-in-law's experience, and everything I've read on the subject, the only common denominator seems to be low fluid intake.  Though I know of no study, my guess is that if they increased fluid intake on the epilepsy ketogenic diets the incidents of kidney stones would drop to that of the general population or possibly below.  Since I increased my fluid intake I've had no further problems.  Of course there may be a kidney stone just waiting to make my life miserable at the most inopportune time, and if this happens you can be sure I'll log it in my journal.

Lex 

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Constipation
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2010, 01:32:47 pm »
They are correlated with strict ZC where fluid intake is restricted
Yeah, I know. But the problem is that the fewer carbs I eat the less water I could drink.
Drinking 3-4 litres of water a day on ZC would be definitely unrealistic for me.
Sometimes, esp. when it's colder, I hardly drink any water - I don't want to. But water from fruits - yes.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

 

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