Author Topic: some questions about rzc/keto  (Read 8758 times)

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Offline MaximilianKohler

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some questions about rzc/keto
« on: October 08, 2010, 04:28:28 am »
I'm trying to switch to RZC/raw keto diet. I thought this was just a meat/fat diet, but I see people saying they're limiting even their liver intake??

Right now I'm eating just chicken, eggs, heart, liver, and beef fat. Probably going to get other organs like tongue and spleen soon. I was going to ask if I ate coconut butter or even whole coconut, avocados, and maybe some greens like spinach, if this would still be a ketogenic or RZC diet.

I started the switch to keto at the beginning of the month and I know it takes about a month to complete. I'm feeling really fatigued/exhausted now at the 7 day mark, and my heart also feels like it's constantly racing - like struggling/having a hard time - and I was considering eating some cooked sweet potato for a carb boost. Is it better to just wait it out without carb loading? I just want to get the switch over as soon as possible so I can see how my body functions on a raw keto diet. Thanks.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 05:21:57 am by MaximilianKohler »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2010, 05:54:36 am »
A number of people have experienced serious health problems when trying raw zero carb. I too had chronic fatigue and rapidly racing heart when I did RZC, among other issues. In the end I had to give it up after 5-6 weeks. Though, in my own case, the fatigue only started after 3 weeks of RZC.
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Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2010, 05:59:05 am »
I gave up after 6 weeks aswell. My heart stopped racing eventually and my energy levels were pretty OK, but my mind was a total mess. Irritability, brainfog, couldn't concentrate.. etc

I wouldn't recommend rzc but that's how I experienced it.
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2010, 09:38:43 am »
I am currently raw low carb and am in the ketogenic state and can swear that it has saved me from diabetes and chronic fatigue and infections. It may be that I was so damaged and felt so bad for so long that zero carb was the only way I could go.

I believe that the ketogenic state makes the body believe that its starving so it switches gears and burns fat, and so long as you can feed into it quality raw fat the possess can perpetuate itself and the organs can heal and rejuvenate. For those who were not as damaged as I was it could find some aspects of going completely keto unpleasant. I did get restlessness and heart rate jumped a bit was very mild and passed completely by the third month, most people give up before completely adapting, but where my sugars would spike after eatting any carbs I was forced to stick it out, and I feel good and have better health now than I can remember.

I also believe zero crab helped me rebuild my immune system and cure my chronic fatigue by increasing the cellular mitochondria and burning out all the pathogenic garbage and environmental poisons along with the old rancid fats of the body. Its harder to jump start this ketogenic effect when carbs are still being used as a primary fuel, that's why most people here even if not ZC still eat far less carbs than the average person.

From personal experience it took three months to completely adapt although I experienced gradual improvements right away.

I eat liver, about a pound every two weeks and have also eatin spleen and kidneys. Bone marrow is a real treat.
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Offline MaximilianKohler

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2010, 02:02:53 pm »
Thanks for all the input. I'm also disabled with severe chronic fatigue and low immune system. I'll continue eating how I am now, hopefully I'll see the same benefits you did.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2010, 10:53:55 pm »
I believe that the ketogenic state makes the body believe that its starving so it switches gears and burns fat 
You can eat 100 g of carbs, still have got ketonemia and burn fat even better than with 20 g carbs.
Look at the basic biochemical processes. :)
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Offline MaximilianKohler

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2010, 03:35:02 am »
google says 1 sweet potato has about 30g of carbs, so I could still eat a couple sweet potatoes 1 day a week or even 1 a day and still be in ketosis? I thought sweet potatoes were supposed to be a high carb food?

Offline klowcarb

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2010, 03:48:25 am »
I'm 18 months Zero Carb, MK. I love it! It allows me to eat big meals of protein and fat and have tons of energy for the gym. Not to mention how easy it is to maintain leanness and build muscle.

Offline Rob

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2010, 04:54:06 am »
I'm trying to get raw VLC as well, and struggling getting there. I can only eat so much muscle meat before I get too much protein, and I am not doing so well on getting more calories from raw animal fat. I am Raw VLC + dairy and non-raw nuts. The dairy isn't that great for me, but the butter and cheese seem to be better than the heavy cream. It is hard to get a steady supply of raw butter though.

When I stay away from the dairy I feel great until I start getting calorie deprived again and head for these other foods.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2010, 05:16:01 am »
Try to get hold of raw grassfed tongue. It is more easily available and avoids you having to get hold of raw dairy  - plus, IMO, many types of raw meats are already very fatty such as raw lamb/raw mutton.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 01:46:17 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline djr_81

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2010, 05:54:54 am »
Try to get hold of raw grassfed tongue. It is more easily available and avoids you having to gte hold of raw dairy  - plus, IMO, many types of raw meats are already very fatty such as raw lamb/raw mutton.
It's gotten much hard to get a hold of in my experience Tyler. It might be a less utilized organ in the UK but the growing prevalence of diets like ours here in the US has resulted in increased demand and frequent shortages. The last beef tongue I had I was waiting over month to get. Liver has been gettign much more popular as well.
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Offline MaximilianKohler

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2010, 06:31:12 am »
I'm trying to get raw VLC as well, and struggling getting there. I can only eat so much muscle meat before I get too much protein, and I am not doing so well on getting more calories from raw animal fat. I am Raw VLC + dairy and non-raw nuts. The dairy isn't that great for me, but the butter and cheese seem to be better than the heavy cream. It is hard to get a steady supply of raw butter though.

When I stay away from the dairy I feel great until I start getting calorie deprived again and head for these other foods.

yeah you either have to go keto or keep yourself supplied with enough carbs, you sound like you're hanging in between which is bad...


btw, I'm feeling a lot better already... I feel like I might have already completed the switch to keto(only 9 days lol)... I'll update in a couple days ^_^

Offline Rob

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2010, 12:00:32 pm »
yeah you either have to go keto or keep yourself supplied with enough carbs, you sound like you're hanging in between which is bad...


btw, I'm feeling a lot better already... I feel like I might have already completed the switch to keto(only 9 days lol)... I'll update in a couple days ^_^

Actually I am in ketosis. I test with ketostix daily. Have been there for weeks. It is definitely dairy sapping me of energy. I am staying away from too many carbs, the only real carb source in my diet is nuts/pumpkin seeds, and I don't eat enough of them to go over 75g or carbs in a day.

I wish I could just get these fattier meats as Tyler suggests, but it is really hard for me to find grass fed anything around here except to buy my beef by the side. So, until I go through this side of beef (though I do have the organs this time, I should pull them out of the chest freezer) I need supplemental fat. When I finish it off, I am going to go the slanker route a la Lex.

In fact, I am selling off the more desirable cuts of meat to friends and coworkers (desirable by their cooked steak standards) to get through it faster.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2010, 01:52:16 pm »
It's gotten much hard to get a hold of in my experience Tyler. It might be a less utilized organ in the UK but the growing prevalence of diets like ours here in the US has resulted in increased demand and frequent shortages. The last beef tongue I had I was waiting over month to get. Liver has been gettign much more popular as well.
I disagree. In the past, I have often been told by others how difficult it is to get hold of raw organs etc., but in fact there are many sources around, one just has to keep asking. For example, my method was to visit 1 different farmers`market a week until, after several months I had a multitude of sources. And, there`s always the option to get delivery from grassfed farms - while most do not advertise raw organs, constant questioning invaribaly leads to finding numerous sources.

I suspect that the trouble is that, in the US, there is a tendency only to get delivery from a very few well-known farms(slanker`s, us wellness and northstar bison keep being mentioned) so naturally sources of raw organs would be much less.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline djr_81

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2010, 08:36:23 pm »
I disagree. In the past, I have often been told by others how difficult it is to get hold of raw organs etc., but in fact there are many sources around, one just has to keep asking. For example, my method was to visit 1 different farmers`market a week until, after several months I had a multitude of sources. And, there`s always the option to get delivery from grassfed farms - while most do not advertise raw organs, constant questioning invaribaly leads to finding numerous sources.

I suspect that the trouble is that, in the US, there is a tendency only to get delivery from a very few well-known farms(slanker`s, us wellness and northstar bison keep being mentioned) so naturally sources of raw organs would be much less.

That dependence on centralized grass-finished providers is part of the problem here in the US and does make sourcing of the organs a problem for many.
I on the other hand buy local directly from a farmer. His customers' demand for organs has grown exponentially over the time I've been buying from him hence my comment which was in my experience. I've looked around for other suppliers but none are as good as the farm I patronize. People might have less issues in some areas but for me organs are getting more expensive and harder to source.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2010, 06:27:36 pm »
That dependence on centralized grass-finished providers is part of the problem here in the US and does make sourcing of the organs a problem for many.
I on the other hand buy local directly from a farmer. His customers' demand for organs has grown exponentially over the time I've been buying from him hence my comment which was in my experience. I've looked around for other suppliers but none are as good as the farm I patronize. People might have less issues in some areas but for me organs are getting more expensive and harder to source.
That is strange. In the UK, one of the most common things that farmers tell me is that they automatically throw the raw organs away after slaughter - one claimed that now that they have to get 2(EU and UK) inspectors to check the meat re BSE etc., it is too costly to give them more time to check the raw organs. Of course, this doesn`t apply to those who butcher their own animals.The other farmers throw away their organs because raw organs are so dirt-cheap they feel they don`t get enough profit from them to be worth the bother of selling them, plus very few people in developed countries are keen on buying organ-meats which means there`s no real market for them.

Unless your farmer has been specifically mentioned in rawist circles, I don`t see how the demand for organs can be that great. Puzzling.
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Offline djr_81

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2010, 12:41:37 am »
Unless your farmer has been specifically mentioned in rawist circles, I don`t see how the demand for organs can be that great. Puzzling.
He's got stands at two large farmer's markets in NYC as well as the smaller market I frequent. From speaking with him it sounds like at least half of his customers, and probably more than that, ascribe to WAP, primal diets, or paleo diets. He even has others RAF customers in the city. :)
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2010, 02:55:46 am »
He's got stands at two large farmer's markets in NYC as well as the smaller market I frequent. From speaking with him it sounds like at least half of his customers, and probably more than that, ascribe to WAP, primal diets, or paleo diets. He even has others RAF customers in the city. :)
Hmm, yes I have noticed in recent years that some stallholders I dealt with have mentioned doing deals with other rawpalaeos - there is no WAPF presence of any note in the UK, but RVAFers are growing in numbers. I suspect, though, that the increased numbers of RVAFers has made it a bit easier for me to get raw organs, not less, as fewer farmers now want to throw organs away; as a result.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Haai

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2010, 04:11:37 am »
The price of organs from where I order has gone way up recently. A few months ago I bought liver for 1.50 euros per kilo. Now it's 12 euros per kilo due to increased demand. Heart went from 1.50 to 8 euros per kilo.
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Offline Haai

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Re: some questions about rzc/keto
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2010, 04:14:23 am »
from a cow btw
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

 

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