Author Topic: Grass fed vs. Grain fed  (Read 18387 times)

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Offline Nicola

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Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« on: August 20, 2008, 04:59:18 am »
I have noticed that most people will not go for grass fed and eating raw is absolut nuts. I go by what I feel - and raw feels better. What I do not know is the grass vs. grain...perhaps it is a big market one way or the other?

What Dana has to say (ask cowgirl...)

http://www.livinlowcarbdiscussion.com/showthread.php?tid=334&page=214

Nicola

Offline boxcarguy07

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2008, 05:30:18 am »
Grass-fed is the way to go.
That nyteez is crazy! To say there is no difference between grain-fed and grass-fed and that the grass-fed movement is a hoax and that no hormones or antibiotics show up in commercial meat...

I guess that's why there have been university studies done on the nutritional benefits of grass-fed beef, and that we are continuously seeing ground beef recalls in the US.

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2008, 05:55:37 am »

I guess that's why there have been university studies done on the nutritional benefits of grass-fed beef, and that we are continuously seeing ground beef recalls in the US.

I shudder to think about how many of those sick animals make it by inspection.

Satya

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2008, 05:57:09 am »
I am not on that other forum and don't care to be.  It's hard to get an understanding of a thread unless you are following it for a time.

Grassfed beef is far superior for the animal and the one who eats it.  CLA is a big reason why

http://www.westonaprice.org/farming/splendor.html

" Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is another nutrient found in the fat of ruminant animals that feed on green grass. CLA has been found to be highly protective against cancer when added to the diets of laboratory animals.3 In addition, CLA promotes the deposition of muscle rather than fat. In a double-blind study with human volunteers, those given CLA had a significant 15 to 20 percent decline in body fat compared to those given a placebo.4 In another study, men enrolled in a bodybuilding program were given either CLA or a placebo. After 28 days, the placebo group could lift nine more pounds; but the CLA group could bench-press 30 pounds more than they had at the beginning of the program.5

"It's no accident that the New Zealand All Blacks, the national rugby team composed of players who grew up on pasture-fed New Zealand butter, is so hard to beat, even though most of the teams they play come from countries with a much larger population base.

"The discovery of CLA in the fat of grass-fed animals—in butterfat, tallow and suet—and the emerging revelations as to its benefits, has posed an embarrassing dilemma for apologists of the factory farming system. Scientists are looking for feed supplements that induce confinement cows to produce CLA and for ways to produce CLA in the laboratory so it can be sold in supplement form. The solution, of course, is to phase out confinement feeding and put cows back on green pasture where they belong. As a nation that has always depended on dairy products, this is the only way to regain the robust good health we enjoyed just a generation or two ago."

Offline Nicola

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2008, 09:17:26 pm »
I just don't know - Charles, the Bear, AV and many say grain fed is healthy. Perhaps the grass fed people are just trying to make money or has any body got proof or are we just all nuts.

Think, we have money to spend but what about all those with children? Don't you feel bad, spending all that extra money and time (we may be food obsessed?). I just feel like that, when I go out in the world or go on different forums - Charles never talks about detox...

I just like to think, that I am "normal" and doing my best.

Can you proof, that you are doing right with spending time and money for grass fed just for YOU?

Nicola

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2008, 09:30:21 pm »
 I should add that AV , according to people on the closed Primal Diet yahoo group, does not recommend grainfed meats after all. He just views the issue of cooking as being more important so views eating raw intensively-farmed grainfed meats as better tahn eating cooked-meats(provided no grainfed organ meats are eaten due to toxins collecting there).

As regards the whole issue of grassfed/grainfed:- It all depends on the state of health of a person. Someone who is already in a reasonable state of health will take much longer to decline on a diet of  just cooked grainfed meats, and will benefit to a certain extent from not eating refined carbs and sugars. However, someone in a bad or appalling state of ill-health will be far more likely not to regain his health if he eats a grainfed meat-containing diet(or take much longer to regain health) than someone on a raw, grassfed meat-containing diet.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Satya

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2008, 09:51:34 pm »
Can you proof, that you are doing right with spending time and money for grass fed just for YOU?

Nicola, 

Feedlot animals are probably raised better in Europe than in the US.  Here, they get doused with pesticides, hormones and antibitiotics.  They live in concrete stalls and never see the light of day.  I support local ranchers who let the cows graze on ample land, eating the diet they were intended to eat - cows are not grain eaters in nature!  I pay very reasonable prices, especially for organs.  It is my money and if I can choose to buy the best food, then that is what I will do.  No one is going to somehow prove to me it is a waste if it is something I value.

I have 2 sons who eat a ton of food as they approach adulthood.  Our food bill is actually cheaper with paleo - and by paleo I mean a meat-based, omnivorous diet - than it was buying more processed foods.  Grain costs are skyrocketing and you may find that grassfed beef becomes more economical than grain fed in the very near future.  Any grain feeding will skew the fatty acid profile of the ruminant animal dramatically.  Rather than talk to people set in their ways, why not talk to farmers about it?  That's what I do.  They know a whole lot more about animal health than people who buy cuts wrapped in plastic.

I can raise animals on my land.  I should.  Sheep could eat the grass so I don't have to mow it with machinery.  I live in some of the best cattle/sheep country in the US.  There is a goat farm 3 houses down from me.  All of these animals live on grass.  I see them grazing all around me, where ever I go in my little town.  To feed them grain is stupid and costly.  And it gives the animal serious indigestion.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2008, 09:54:43 pm by Satya »

Satya

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2008, 10:01:02 pm »
What about horses?  What is their natural diet?  I see owners who ride them feeding oats and grain at times.  They eat lots of grass too, if they are on a good plot of land.  There are horse breeders 3 houses down the other direction.  :)

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2008, 10:08:02 pm »
grass fed beef has yellow fat.
grass fed beef tastes yummy.
grain fed beef has whitish fat and tastes yucky.
At least that is the beef I get here in Manila.
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Offline Nicola

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2008, 05:40:27 pm »

Slanker's Grass-Fed Meat

Nicola, here's my answer: 

If one subscribes to the idea that all foods are good for you and that chronic disease (bodies failing) is a natural thing, then you should continue doing what you are doing and what everyone else is doing.  But, if you are interested in taking care of your body so that it won't fail, then maybe you should pay a little attention to modern peer-reviewed science.  On our web site are links to real scientific reports by Artemis Simopoulos.  She is world renown today like Einstein was in his time except her field of focus is nutrition.  You can thank her for all the talk about Omega-3 fatty acids that started back in the 1980s.  Yes, she's the one.  The only reason Omega-3 fatty acids are something folks talk about these days is that Artemis discovered that certain fats are essential for all animal health and the American food system was deficient in one very important essential fat.  The reason that occurs is because man invented grain farming and grain is deficient in the Omega 3 fatty acid.  So, the more grain-based our food system has become, the more body failures there are in the general population.  Every chronic disease you can name is a body failure and every one of them can be traced to eating grain.  Even obesity and early maturity in children comes from eating grain.

Now lots of folks doubt that, but millions of animals every year are fattened on grain and are made to mature earlier by being fed grain.  But nobody takes all the millions of experiments on animals of all types and relates it to people.  (Like for instance, why are veterinarians so busy treating pets with the same diseases that people get?)  Not being able to relate these facts together is pretty dumb, huh?

Grass-fed meats taste they way they do because they are loaded with Omega-3 fatty acids like all animal bodies are supposed to be.  Also, they are loaded with vitamin E, vitamin A, Beta Carotene, CLA, and the list of nutrients go on and on.  All these very important nutrients have flavors.  Grain fed meats are low in these very important nutrients and therefore the meats are flavorless.  You can say, correctly, that all grain-fed meats are anemic.

Now you can sneer at grass-fed meats all you want, but when I look at Joe Six-pack, I usually see a pretty sick, overweight fellow.  But people take on their growing loads of chronic diseases as signs of maturity.   In other words they are proud of their sicknesses!  And in time if you eat grain, grain-based foods, and grain-fed livestock you will be just like the Joe Six-packs.  But I have a different goal.  I am focused on quality of life and my body is important since it's what carries me around.

Our web site is loaded with information.  Go to the Omega-3 Essay section.  http://slankersgrassfedmeats.com/focusing_on_nutrition.htm   Go to Science Links.   http://slankersgrassfedmeats.com/science_underscores_grassfed_meats.htm  Check out the reports by Artemis Simopoulos.  And keep in mind that America's grain-based food system is feeding 300,000,000 people three meals a day.  So it's not a machine that can be turned around in even a few decades.  If the USDA told the truth about grain, there would be panic in the streets because there wouldn't be any food to eat in the stores.  So the time for the whole truth is decades away yet.  But individuals can make a difference.  And until the masses are involved the grass-fed industry will be tiny and it won't have the advantages of mass production.  So the real food it produces will cost more.  Maybe to you, money is more important.  So be it.  But before you shoot your mouth off much more about grass-fed meats and expose your tremendous ignorance, why don't you look over the fence (read the scientific literature) and then maybe you'll understand why some of us are focused on changing our taste buds to accept our new foods.

There is too much more to tell you, but your reading assignments are already probably beyond what you're willing to do.  Plus over the years I've found that trying to educate folks with their heads firmly planted in the sand is futile to say it mildly.

Ted Slanker
http://slankersgrassfedmeats.com

The Real Diet of Man is Very Simple:  http://www.slankersgrassfedmeats.com/the_real_diet_of_man.htm




Nicola Harrison wrote:

Hi Ted,
 
I and many others (Lex Rocker...) know all about what you sell, but just as many will say that we/you have no proof; they say that grass-fed meat tastes bad and is just a way of making lots of money...
 
Please take the trouble to answer, as many people eat just meat and nobody knows for shore what to believe.
 
Nicola

 
 

Offline boxcarguy07

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2008, 07:30:26 pm »
Wow, he did come off as a little bit rude towards the end there, eh? I think he assumed a little bit too much about you as well.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2008, 08:35:33 pm »
I read in Aajonus Vonderplanitz' book that he recommends grass fed.
I read that Aajonus had bad experiences with grain fed organs and marrow.
I read that Aajonus says if he is on travel and can't find grass fed, he will buy supermarket meat, but only eat the muscle and fat as he feels those parts are safe enough while temporarily on travel.
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Satya

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2008, 08:38:17 pm »

I and many others (Lex Rocker...)
<snip>

Thanks Nicola.  I needed a good laugh.  Craig called Lex "Sex" yesterday, and now you've changed his last name.  I think Lex Rooker must become "Sex Rocker" at night when he becomes a secret rock star.  Bwaaahaaahaa!

Satya

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2008, 08:53:11 pm »
Wow, he did come off as a little bit rude towards the end there, eh? I think he assumed a little bit too much about you as well.

I agree he was pretty rude with Nicola about reading and having her head in the sand.  Their website is a bit that way too.  I use Burgundy Pasture Beef as they are more centrally located in TX where the tall eastern grasses and the short native western grasses combine.  I have looked into Slankers, but I don't care for the ever so slightly condescending attitude they convey about ordering, availability, etc.  Their prices on choice steaks are lower than Burgundy, but Burgundy is cheaper on cheaper cuts and organs.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2008, 09:49:49 pm »
Wow, he did come off as a little bit rude towards the end there, eh? I think he assumed a little bit too much about you as well.

To be fair, Nicola did rather strongly suggest to Ted Slanker  that grassfed meat producers might be only promoting grassfed meats for the money without there being any health-benefits, which is an aspersion on the guy's integrity, and integrity/reputation is something that any owner of a long-term business is deeply concerned about. Naturally, he would be pretty pissed off about it. *Oh, yeah, "pissed off" in UK slang means " angry" not "drunk" as in US slang.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Satya

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2008, 09:53:11 pm »
Pissed off means angry in the US too.

Oh, and you are right that Nicola suggested a profit only motive.  I must have missed that when thinking about the Sex Rocker connection. :D

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2008, 10:04:16 pm »
Sorry, I'm getting mixed up. "Pissed" in UK slang means "drunk" "pissed off " in UK slang  being "angry". It's just that I remembered that there was some confusion between US and UK slang over that word.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline boxcarguy07

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2008, 10:16:46 pm »
Sorry, I'm getting mixed up. "Pissed" in UK slang means "drunk" "pissed off " in UK slang  being "angry". It's just that I remembered that there was some confusion between US and UK slang over that word.


Hmm... in the US, both "pissed" and "pissed off" mean angry.
However, I've heard people say things like "we got piss drunk last night"


slang is such an odd thing.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2008, 10:24:34 pm »

Hmm... in the US, both "pissed" and "pissed off" mean angry.
However, I've heard people say things like "we got piss drunk last night"


slang is such an odd thing.

I suspect that a few Americans are simply  borrowing the term from the UK.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Nicola

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2008, 02:49:16 am »
I agree he was pretty rude with Nicola about reading and having her head in the sand.  Their website is a bit that way too.  I use Burgundy Pasture Beef as they are more centrally located in TX where the tall eastern grasses and the short native western grasses combine.  I have looked into Slankers, but I don't care for the ever so slightly condescending attitude they convey about ordering, availability, etc.  Their prices on choice steaks are lower than Burgundy, but Burgundy is cheaper on cheaper cuts and organs.

I changed the first part of his answer - he did not answer for me, the answer was aimed towards the "meat and water" group of Charles as Dana had a lot to say about grass fed vs. grain fed (I asked him to answer on the sight so that I could stay out of this war).

I just feel bad about how much time and money I spend when other "do well (don't worry)" and eat a "normal" diet. The other thought is that many diet of hunger and I can choose to eat this way.

Nicola

Sorry about the "Rocker" part!

Nicola

Satya

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2008, 09:33:35 am »
I just feel bad about how much time and money I spend when other "do well (don't worry)" and eat a "normal" diet. The other thought is that many diet of hunger and I can choose to eat this way.


Well, it's just one of those things.  You know, some people smoke and drink alot and live to a ripe, old age.  Others die young doing everything perfect.  So there are no guarantees either way.  But you will feel better about supporting a good farmer than a corporation that doesn't care at all, right?

Many do go hungry.  But how you eat will not affect them, unless you set aside money saved and donate it and make sure that money really goes to help the people.  But still, you can think about good stewardship in many ways.  Isn't it better for all people to have the animals raised on land and let their manure fertilize the grass?  Industrial farms pollute waterways and cause health problems in many people.  So when you look at it that way, naturally raised animals are better for the environment than factory farms.  And we all share the environment.

The Rocker comment rocked!  I needed laughs for my health right at the time I read that, so please do not apologize.  I am sure even Lex will not mind if I needed it at the time.  He is a good sport!

Offline Nicola

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2008, 07:16:29 pm »
Just an update, as I am still looking for "the light" of grassfed vs. grainfed as well as other things...

http://tinyurl.com/6gm7nc

and of course Ted's answer did not solve the problem or shine much light...

Nicola


Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2008, 08:04:45 pm »
Ted provided quite a number of scientific studies proving his point. All grainfed-meat-consumers can do is claim that they're OK - of course, it all depends on one's idea of health. I suspect that grainfed-meat-consumers simply have  lowered standards as regards their definition of tru health.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline boxcarguy07

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2008, 09:21:47 pm »
Just an update, as I am still looking for "the light" of grassfed vs. grainfed as well as other things...

http://tinyurl.com/6gm7nc

and of course Ted's answer did not solve the problem or shine much light...

Nicola



That video wasn't enough to convince you?
Here's another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfZohaycWho


University Study:  http://www.csuchico.edu/agr/grassfedbeef/health-benefits/index.html

Offline Nicola

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Re: Grass fed vs. Grain fed
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2008, 04:44:33 am »
Just an update from Ted:

Most professional medical people know nothing about nutrition.  So say the MDs I've talked with over the years.  That's because they're taught nothing about nutrition except what the USDA puts out in its Food Pyramid.

There are more meat studies than you can shake a stick at that show how animal bodies adapt the fat profiles of the foods they eat.  Eat grain and you gain that fat profile.  That's an absolute indisputable fact.  An improper fat profile whether gained directly from eating grain or from eating grain-fed livestock leads the way to body failure.  I don't know who Dr. Eades is, but he definitely hasn't read any published meat studies.  ALL meat scientists report the nutrient differences in their studies that compare grain-fed with grass-fed meats and they've been doing so for many years.  They just don't knock the grain-fed meats as nutritional disasters because the universities are supported by the grain-fed meat business.  But they report the basic facts correctly.

People like Mac are casting about with two many meaningless inputs in their minds.  It's all real simple and if a fellow reads reports and understands the differences between studies based on the limb of a tree versus a forest, then they can see the truth.  But if a fellow has a million tree limb studies in mind, he can't see the forest.

Grain as a food is a concoction of man.  Fields of grain are not only seasonal, but don't occur unless man intervenes in the natural way.  So it is impossible for grain to be a food staple for any animal life.  All animal life is supposed to follow the green leaf.  That's the way it has been since the first one celled green plant came into being.  And that's the way it will be for all the rest of time.

Unless a fellow can recognize that basic point, they are lost.

Everyone in the ranching business knows for a fact that unless he takes harvested grain to his livestock, no matter how he tries, other than hauling it to them, the livestock won't have any grain to eat in a natural setting.  And that is true even if the rancher plants winter rye or winter wheat pastures.  That's a fact.  So, until the folks in the cities pull their heads out of the sand, they can't possible understand why the science behind grass-fed is so fundamental and sound.  Even Lorain Cordain at one time didn't understand it just like all of us.  But he has a much better handle on it today and so do I.  It was learning about livestock nutrition that put me in this business and then later I learned that it applied to people as well.  Then I changed the way I eat and my health improved dramatically.  Prior to that I followed the USDA suggestions and was going down hill year after year.

Ted Slanker

Nicola




 

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