Author Topic: Rabies.  (Read 12113 times)

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Offline miles

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Rabies.
« on: December 24, 2010, 02:54:49 pm »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies

What do you guys think about rabies? Particularly if one was going to be living off of self-hunted genuinely wild-animals. There would be grey wolves around too.

"Rabid Meat. Because an animal that died from rabies would have a lot of virus in its system, it would be possible to get rabies from handling an infected animal. Cooking would of course kill the virus, but let’s say a wolf found a carcass. If the meat made it into the stomach, the acids would kill the virus also, but if the wolf had a cut on its lip, a lesion on the throat, or anywhere the virus could get access to a nerve, it is possible to contract rabies that way."
- http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/health/rabies.html
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 03:08:14 pm by miles »
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2010, 04:20:03 pm »
Just as some humans can get partial  genetic protection from malaria through thousands of generations, so am I  sure that wild(but not domesticated ) animals have limited genetic protection to rabies. Anyway, it's a non-issue as many RVAFers have eaten raw wild game in quantity for years and years without issues like rabies.
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Offline kurite

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2010, 05:33:18 pm »
But humans can catch rabies? Im sure rabies aren't as wide spread as believed but its possible.
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2010, 01:42:30 am »
Rabies infected animals generally would be symptomatic and so you could tell. However I suppose if the animal was in the beginning stages it might not be recognizable.
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Offline miles

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2010, 04:07:59 am »
Read those pages. Rabies can be asymptomatic for up to 2 years depending on where you contract the infection. It only becomes symptomatic once it reaches the brain.

The rabies apparently dies if you hang the animal for a few days at room temperature. The colder it is the longer the virus will survive.

In one of those pages I linked, a lab in the USA somewhere called for any road-kill to be brought in and tested for rabies, and 50% of the animals were rabid.
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Offline kurite

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2010, 10:22:48 am »
I just remembered sully hunts some wild animals like squirrels and rabbits so he might know something about it.
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 09:05:22 pm »
Wild humans and animals had eaten a plethora of rabid animals without any serious problems.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline achillezzz

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2010, 09:40:49 pm »
In one of those pages I linked, a lab in the USA somewhere called for any road-kill to be brought in and tested for rabies, and 50% of the animals were rabid.

I remember tyler support road kill but you say 50% of it is infected? so road kill or wild animals are good or not good to eat Im confused!

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2010, 10:19:13 pm »
I remember tyler support road kill but you say 50% of it is infected? so road kill or wild animals are good or not good to eat Im confused!
Look, if countless RVAFers have eaten tons of raw wild game for years and years without any problems, then one can safely assume there is no danger. As for the lab comment re rabies, that is physically impossible. I mean, rabies is supposed to be fatal, and by now we would have heard about it in the media much more if 50 percent of wild animals were infected regularly and died.
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Offline miles

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2010, 02:48:25 am »
If a rabid animal's body fluids get into your blood then you'll get rabies. Through a cut, through your eye, through your reproductive orifice, etc..

Quote
There is no way to guarantee that any dead animal did or did not have rabies without a brain test. During the rabies enzootic experiment in eastern Ontario, about 50% of the road-killed foxes we received were rabid! About the same percentage of animals with quills were rabid. Several animals with quills were young and likely very hungry; one was 10 ½ years old (Methuselah for foxes). Many road kills were also young and inexperienced. Better to err on the side of caution.
- http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/health/rabies.html
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 02:55:27 am by miles »
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Offline Snowflower

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2010, 04:35:57 am »
You're right, Miles. It could happen to you. or me. or anyone else.

But, the simple truth is that it could also happen that when I get in my car next time and drive to town, I could get killed along the way. Is that going to stop me from getting into my car? No. I want to go to town more than I'm worried about being killed doing it.

The same goes for eating wild meat. You'll have to make your own decision about it. I don't have to eat road kill or wild meat right now because I have plenty of meat without it. But I fully expect a time in the future when I might have to hunt in order to eat. I'm damned well not going to worry about rabies when that time comes because I'll be a whole lot more concerned about getting enough to eat.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2010, 04:58:18 am »
If a rabid animal's body fluids get into your blood then you'll get rabies. Through a cut, through your eye, through your reproductive orifice, etc..
- http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/health/rabies.html

  Sounds like a rubbish claim since rabies is routinely said to only occur if an animal bites you.

I am always wary of bogus claims that wild animals are infested with dangerous diseases. These are always hysteria-driven PR-inspired articles originating from the farming industry who basically want as many wild animals  removed/killed in the countryside, solely because they paranoidly believe that wild animals are pests which are a threat to crops and domesticated animals. A classic example of this was the extreme hysteria about the mythical threat of TB to cattle  from wild badgers in the UK, a while back.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline miles

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2010, 02:32:54 pm »
.....

That's dumb. You can eat wild meat and take precautions to avoid getting rabies at the same time. You get in your car, but you look where you're going and try to drive safely, you don't drive with a blindfold on.

 Sounds like a rubbish claim since rabies is routinely said to only occur if an animal bites you.

I am always wary of bogus claims that wild animals are infested with dangerous diseases. These are always hysteria-driven PR-inspired articles originating from the farming industry who basically want as many wild animals  removed/killed in the countryside, solely because they paranoidly believe that wild animals are pests which are a threat to crops and domesticated animals. A classic example of this was the extreme hysteria about the mythical threat of TB to cattle  from wild badgers in the UK, a while back.

Rabies is most concentrated in the brain and the salivary glands of a symptomatic animal, but it spreads to all the organs of infected animals.

One point on the roadkill thing though: Rabid animals have less self-control, so they could be more likely to end up as road-kill.

Also: There's no reported resevoir of land-rabies in the UK or Australia, only in bats, and the occasional times an animal gets infected by a bat. Everywhere else there's resevoirs of rabies in land animals.

Of course wild animals become infested with dangerous diseases. Not the healthy ones. Lots of wild animals get these diseases, but they die from them.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 02:38:19 pm by miles »
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2010, 02:39:31 pm »
Rabies is most concentrated in the brain and the salivary glands of a symptomatic animal, but it spreads to all the organs of infected animals.
But how you're gonna detect this infection?
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline miles

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2010, 03:03:45 pm »
But how you're gonna detect this infection?

A symptomatic rabid animal would appear unwell, would walk oddly and stuff. Also if you leave a rabid animal dead for a few days it can become safe I think, depending on the temperature. In the cold the infection could remain for years after death, but when it's warm only a few days.

Cooking would also neutralise it, but your stomach acid would too same anyway. So it's really the general handling of it which is dangerous, not the eating specifically. If you eat raw rabid meat wearing a protective suit, and you have no cuts inside your digestive tract prior to the meat reaching the stomach acid you should be fine anyway.

If an animal is infected but not symptomatic(hasn't reached the brain) I don't know how you'd tell. Maybe the chance of being infected by eating it really would be negligible.
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2010, 03:12:55 pm »
A symptomatic rabid animal would appear unwell, would
Cooking would also neutralise it, but your stomach acid would too same anyway. So it's really the general handling of it which is dangerous, not the eating specifically. If you eat raw rabid meat wearing a protective suit, and you have no cuts inside your digestive tract prior to the meat reaching the stomach acid you should be fine anyway.
I agree.
But the stomach acid shouldn't be diltuted by some plant foods or water while eating the infected meat. It's very important.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2010, 05:40:00 pm »
So it's really the general handling of it which is dangerous, not the eating specifically. If you eat raw rabid meat wearing a protective suit, and you have no cuts inside your digestive tract prior to the meat reaching the stomach acid you should be fine anyway.
  The above, absurd comments re wearing a protective suit are frighteningly reminiscent of a few past members who had similiar orthorexia and OCD. 
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline miles

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2010, 09:01:15 pm »
  The above, absurd comments re wearing a protective suit are frighteningly reminiscent of a few past members who had similiar orthorexia and OCD. 

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2010, 12:59:37 am »
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Oh come on! Suggesting that people wear a protective suit when eating or cutting up raw wild game? that's just hysteria-driven. I mean, not even SAD-eating hunters could take such extreme advice seriously.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2010, 01:11:41 am »
Where I used to live the vast majority would live for the most part on meat they got from the land; caribou, moose, fish, ptarmigan, geese, partridge etc. Not so much for fiscal reasons as there was no unemployment in town but because this was how they grew up.

In the process of cleaning the animals after the hunt, some of the guys would get serious infections and in some cases life threatening issues, from the process. Some would have their hands balloon up with infections. Whether this was from rabies or other blood borne diseases is hard to know. They simply knew they were susceptible and wore gloves.
Cheers
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2010, 01:14:06 am »
That protective suit is indeed a stupid idea.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline miles

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2010, 01:37:37 am »
Oh come on! Suggesting that people wear a protective suit when eating or cutting up raw wild game? that's just hysteria-driven. I mean, not even SAD-eating hunters could take such extreme advice seriously.

I didn't say anything of the sort. Read again. You start too many arguments based on mis-reading posts.

The mention of a protective suit was hypothetical.

You can apparently get rabies through any cut, through your eye, through sexual intercourse with a rabies-infected person, etc.. but not from eating rabid meat unless you have miniature cuts inside your upper digestive tract/lips/fingers etc.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 01:43:33 am by miles »
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2010, 01:43:19 am »
Whether this was from rabies or other blood borne diseases is hard to know. They simply knew they were susceptible and wore gloves.
Over a half a year ago I've been infected with Erysipeloid of Rosenbach (I've cut myself in the palm with the bone). I recovered in about 2 weeks without using any drugs.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2010, 02:03:35 am »
I didn't say anything of the sort. Read again. You start too many arguments based on mis-reading posts.

The mention of a protective suit was hypothetical.

You can apparently get rabies through any cut, through your eye, through sexual intercourse with a rabies-infected person, etc.. but not from eating rabid meat unless you have miniature cuts inside your upper digestive tract/lips/fingers etc.
I've eaten raw wild game a number of times when I had bleeding fingers(due to every now and then puncturing myself just before with an oyster-knife while opening raw oysters etc.) and never got rabies or any other infection - so I can be reasonably certain that the chances of infection re rabies or anything else is so negigible as to be easily ignored.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 02:37:15 am by TylerDurden »
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" Ron Paul.

Offline miles

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Re: Rabies.
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2010, 02:23:56 am »
I've eaten raw wild game a number of times when I had bleeding fingers(due to every now and then puncturing myself just before with an oysteer-knife while opening raw oysters etc.) and never got rabies or any other infection - so I can be reasonably certain that the chances of infection re rabies or anything else is so negigible as to be easily ignored.

As I said already, there's no known rabies in the UK or Australia, except for in bats. Everywhere else in the world there is. Also, most hunters know what to look for to see that an animal is healthy anyway. If they're planning on selling it they certainly do.
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