Author Topic: Japanese QUake  (Read 27030 times)

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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2011, 03:04:16 pm »
Nuclear power plants are all in disarray and polluting the water and the air.

(betcha the Japs will do a Russia like Chernobyl and will deny stuff to calm the masses).

How do we protect ourselves from radioactive pollution like that?
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2011, 04:18:38 pm »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline riy freeman

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2011, 07:30:35 pm »
oh my god....

my uncle was telling me that the various regions across the tokyo area and north are having to go through periods of intentional blackouts by taking turns due to lack of electricity. looks like they won't have running water soon either...

Offline Sitting Coyote

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2011, 07:49:57 pm »
GS (and other worried about radiation).  You need to stock up on potassium iodide.  Take large doses of this if you are down-wind of Japan as it will help to prevent uptake of radiation.

Offline magnetic

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2011, 08:07:43 pm »
GS (and other worried about radiation).  You need to stock up on potassium iodide.  Take large doses of this if you are down-wind of Japan as it will help to prevent uptake of radiation.

The literature on potassium iodide seems to support protection for the thyroid, but that is all.  See:

http://www.ki4u.com/print_me.htm

But I am curious now what other methods of protection there might be.

Offline ys

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2011, 01:41:23 am »
Quote
betcha the Japs will do a Russia like Chernobyl and will deny stuff to calm the masses

i don't think so, you can't hide it because it is being broadcast in real time.

chernobyl was million times worse, it contaminated area bigger then the whole Japan.  i lived nearby at that time and lived through it, it was very silent killer, i personally know people who got cancer possibly due to radiation exposure.
what makes chernobyl the worst is that it was cased by human error, it was easily preventable unlike quake.

japanese reactors are of different type, even in the case of total meltdown it should not spew so much materials.

i live not far from number of nuclear plants within 100-200 mile radius, i recognize potential risks and planning to move as far away as possible.

if i ever decide to settle along ocean shores i'll make sure i'm high enough even for the biggest tsunamis.  there ve been so many deadly tsunamis in the past and there'll be more.  some people ignore the fact and keep playing the roulette.  you can't really hide from falling asteroid but people can do more to protect themselves from tsunamis.  i'm sure building tsunami barriers cost many times less.

for those who are really paranoid there are numerous survivalist and zombie forums.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2011, 04:42:39 am »
if i ever decide to settle along ocean shores i'll make sure i'm high enough even for the biggest tsunamis.  there ve been so many deadly tsunamis in the past and there'll be more. 

You’re wise. But apparently the engineers who conceived the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant were not as wise as you are because they located the backup Diesel generators and electrical connections in such a low lying area that they were flooded by the tsunami.

God only knows what’s gonna happen next but it looks like we play with the nuclear fire as we’ve played with the regular fire ever since we pretend to master it. As a matter of fact we don’t master anything and it took some hundred thousand years until the very few of us realize that we’ve done a mistake to use that dammed fire to cook our food.

I feel this is the beginning of the end for our whole industrial civilization. Japan wont’ recover easily, if it ever does, and the rest of the industrialized world will very probably follow in decline. What has happened in Japan can happen everywhere, especially here in France where we rely heavily on the damned nuclear power. -d

I drank half a bottle of red wine tonight – good “natural” wine made by my friendly neighbor. There’s nothing else remaining do in this desperate world.   
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline ys

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2011, 04:54:20 am »
Quote
I feel this is the beginning of the end for our whole industrial civilization. Japan wont’ recover easily, if it ever does, and the rest of the industrialized world will very probably follow in decline.

i am more optimistic, digging a bunker has not crossed my mind yet.

Offline magnetic

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2011, 06:52:07 am »
i am more optimistic, digging a bunker has not crossed my mind yet.

There must be a collapse so that a new civilization may rise.

Offline Dima

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2011, 10:56:05 am »
oh my god....

my uncle was telling me that the various regions across the tokyo area and north are having to go through periods of intentional blackouts by taking turns due to lack of electricity. looks like they won't have running water soon either...

This was a fact of daily life (and for many years) when I was growing up. And no heat in the winter. Very inconvenient, but not life threatening to most.

Offline ys

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2011, 11:01:40 am »
same here, i grew up without running water, my parents would fill up bathtub with water and we'd use for drinking and cooking.

Offline Dima

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2011, 11:07:03 am »
Sounds familiar! Haha Whre are you from?

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2011, 11:15:52 am »
Nuclear calamity getting worse in Japan.

See further comments below the post http://www.myhealthblog.org/2011/03/15/deciding-to-prepare-for-nuclear-radiation-fallout-from-japanese-nuclear-reactors/


Sunday, May 23, 2004

Japan’s deadly game of nuclear roulette

By LEUREN MORET
Special to The Japan Times

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20040523x2.html

TWO THOUSAND FOUR --- did they listen? ... noooo.

------------

BREAKING NEWS: Hydrogen explosion occurs at Fukushima No. 4 reactor
11:53pm Japanese time. March 15,  2011
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 11:25:59 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline ys

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2011, 11:38:25 am »
Quote
Sounds familiar! Haha Whre are you from?

probably the same place you are from, magic field in the land of fools

Quote
Nuclear calamity getting worse in Japan.

yes, we can all read the news.  don't panic, it'll be just fine, even if it spills out they'll figure out how to clean it up.  this is not haiti.

Offline CHK91

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2011, 11:42:52 am »
Live Geiger counter in Tokyo:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/%E3%82%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AB%E3%82%A6%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BF

Also, I would hate to be the guy who has to work there now to keep the cores cool. I wouldn't do it for millions of dollars.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 11:57:53 am by CHK91 »
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2011, 12:09:25 pm »
Foreigners are evacuating Tokyo and other parts of Japan.

Even Filipinos.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Japanese QUake + Radiation Fall Out worse than Chernobyl
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2011, 04:05:42 pm »
Worse than Chernobyl?

Just how bad was Chernobyl?
   
Chernobyl Radiation Killed Nearly One Million People: New Book

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/apr2010/2010-04-26-01.html

NEW YORK, New York, April 26, 2010 (ENS) - Nearly one million people around the world died from exposure to radiation released by the 1986 nuclear disaster at the Chernobyl reactor, finds a new book from the New York Academy of Sciences published today on the 24th anniversary of the meltdown at the Soviet facility.
...

On April 26, 1986, two explosions occured at reactor number four at the Chernobyl plant which tore the top from the reactor and its building and exposed the reactor core. The resulting fire sent a plume of radioactive fallout into the atmosphere and over large parts of the western Soviet Union, Europe and across the Northern Hemisphere. Large areas in Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia had to be evacuated.

Yablokov and his co-authors find that radioactive emissions from the stricken reactor, once believed to be 50 million curies, may have been as great as 10 billion curies, or 200 times greater than the initial estimate, and hundreds of times larger than the fallout from the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

------

The Fukushima +++ reactor blowouts will be much worse.
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Offline actionhero

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2011, 09:26:23 pm »
I hope this disaster reminds everyone how fragile and precious our human life is and that we should enjoy and be grateful for every moment we are alive.

Japan you rock and you will bounce back like you always have.   
A P E X   P R E D A T O R

Offline Hanna

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2011, 10:02:13 pm »
You’re wise. But apparently the engineers who conceived the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant were not as wise as you are because they located the backup Diesel generators and electrical connections in such a low lying area that they were flooded by the tsunami.

God only knows what’s gonna happen next but it looks like we play with the nuclear fire as we’ve played with the regular fire ever since we pretend to master it. As a matter of fact we don’t master anything and it took some hundred thousand years until the very few of us realize that we’ve done a mistake to use that dammed fire to cook our food.

I feel this is the beginning of the end for our whole industrial civilization. Japan wont’ recover easily, if it ever does, and the rest of the industrialized world will very probably follow in decline. What has happened in Japan can happen everywhere, especially here in France where we rely heavily on the damned nuclear power. -d

I drank half a bottle of red wine tonight – good “natural” wine made by my friendly neighbor. There’s nothing else remaining do in this desperate world.   


It seems that even conservative governments are able to learn:

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20110315-33727.html

...and now they decided to shut down even eight nuclear plants. Also the nuclear plant nearest to me will be shut down.

Offline Iguana

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2011, 11:18:19 pm »

Sunday, May 23, 2004
Japan’s deadly game of nuclear roulette
By LEUREN MORET
Special to The Japan Times
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20040523x2.html

TWO THOUSAND FOUR --- did they listen? ... noooo.

Thanks, GS, very interesting article. I didn't know that nuclear power plants can be and have been converted to burn natural gas.

Two other articles amongst hundreds:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/world/asia/15nuclear.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2
Japan Faces Potential Nuclear Disaster as Radiation Levels Rise
Quote
“We are on the brink. We are now facing the worst-case scenario,” said Hiroaki Koide, a senior reactor engineering specialist at the Research Reactor Institute of Kyoto University. “We can assume that the containment vessel at Reactor No. 2 is already breached. If there is heavy melting inside the reactor, large amounts of radiation will most definitely be released.”

Another executive said the chain of events at Daiichi suggested that it would be difficult to maintain emergency seawater cooling operations for an extended period if the containment vessel at one reactor had been compromised because radiation levels could threaten the health of workers nearby.

If all workers do in fact leave the plant, the nuclear fuel in all three reactors is likely to melt down, which would lead to wholesale releases of radioactive material — by far the largest accident of its kind since the Chernobyl

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/core-issues-worstcase-nuclear-reactor-scenarios-20110315-1bvr5.html  Core issues: worst-case nuclear reactor scenarios

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2011/03/15/japan-residents-nuclear-worries.html
Japan's PM warns of dangerous radiation levels
Quote
"It's like a horror movie," said 49-year-old Kyoko Nambu as she stood on a hillside overlooking her ruined hometown of Soma. "Our house is gone and now they are telling us to stay indoors. We can see the damage to our houses, but radiation? ... We have no idea what is happening. I am so scared."

All my sympathy for the Japanese people and our Japanese members, amongst them Gosu.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline riy freeman

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2011, 04:25:49 am »
Thank goodness there are some posters here who recognize this for what it is, a human tragedy and a disaster of the first order.

Thank you for your sympathies Iguana... It's hard to describe how I feel about this whole event... I am frustrated for my lack of ability of money to help. It's also hard to convey this feeling to others. For now I am trying to channel my frustration and worry into studying harder for my mcats so that I get to a place eventually where I will be able to help disaster victims in the future.

Now with the radiation levels approaching harmful levels, there is a worry about the health of my relatives who survived the quake but may come into harm's way via nuclear fallout...

My family is sending Potassium Iodide as fast as we can to my uncle and his family who reside in the tokyo metro area... He has told us that there is no KI available anywhere in Japan anymore, (that any normal person can get their hands on) so its quite a worry.

Offline Louna

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2011, 05:58:04 am »

Offline CHK91

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2011, 11:35:32 am »
Apparently, the government has abandoned the plant because the radiation has become too high.

Well... Shit. Not good. :(
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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2011, 03:22:16 pm »
I hope this disaster reminds everyone how fragile and precious our human life is and that we should enjoy and be grateful for every moment we are alive.

Yes, you are right!

Unfortunately, insanity always wins in the long run. We will see hundreds of new nuclear power plants in the next years WITHOUT having a clue what to do with the radioactive waste. Even Chernobyl didn't help.

Löwenherz

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Japanese QUake
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2011, 06:00:44 pm »
Yes, you are right!

Unfortunately, insanity always wins in the long run. We will see hundreds of new nuclear power plants in the next years WITHOUT having a clue what to do with the radioactive waste. Even Chernobyl didn't help.

Löwenherz


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