Fiat currency

[sabertooth]

hmmmmm.......
Then the other point of view is that anyone has the ability to just opt out of the madness of the system by moving to a remote area and live off the land.

One shouldn't have to surrender all that is good about technology and civilization, just because of the corruption and unfairness of the monetary system. Surrender isn't an option , its time for people to make a stand and demand a sane and balanced monetary system. I am frustrated with the fatalistic mentality that is being conditioned into the masses. The Idea that there is no hope for people like myself to be able to rise up and take off the shackles of debt slavery without having to live like a Ted Kaczynski seems to me a cop out for those without the bravery or the will to take on the matter head on..

[raw-al]

One shouldn't have to surrender all that is good about technology and civilization, just because of the corruption and unfairness of the monetary system. Surrender isn't an option , its time for people to make a stand and demand a sane and balanced monetary system. I am frustrated with the fatalistic mentality that is being conditioned into the masses. The Idea that there is no hope for people like myself to be able to rise up and take off the shackles of debt slavery without having to live like a Ted Kaczynski seems to me a cop out for those without the bravery or the will to take on the matter head on..

Money is a solution to a problem. How to trade with other people.

Every solution has it's inherent flaws/downside. You cannot / will not control every other person into doing things in the way that you consider is right. You can pass laws, but then the laws will have flaws so you have to pass more laws to cover the flaws in the last round of laws, which of course have more flaws.

It's an endless procedure which ends up in the mess we have now. But then to others the mess looks "just about right, thank you very much". So therefore the mess can be "just about right to others. Depends on your point of view.

If you want to be the engine of change, then bear in mind that there will be someone right behind you that will want to change your change, to put some caulk in the leaky boat you left behind.

So walk out the door, leave it all behind and live off the land like a bear or coyote......

At least you won't get an ulcer worrying about that which is..... but shouldn't be. 

I'm not saying you should roll over, just don't get an ulcer.

[sabertooth]

Do not misinterpret my passion for righteousness and love of sticking it to the man for neurosis. I assure you my stomach has never felt better and my worries about the injustice of the monetary system are justified.

You may play the pacifist if you wish, but I chose to speak out and ride out like Paul Revere and proclaim the bankers are coming.

I never have believed that there is any solution would be perfect or last forever, all I know is that the current system is built upon a foundation of inequity, and that there has to be a better way.

Artificial complexity has been built into the current monetary structure deliberately by those who lord over the issuance of currency. Throughout history there have been brave souls who attempted to return honest and simple money to the people. We need more heroic souls to take on this issue

Julius Caesar was a hero for giving the Romans fair money, and we know what happened to him.

Andrew Jackson's wife was poisoned, and there were multiple attempts on his life during his battle against the bankers.

Honest Abe was going to keep the greenback after the war, and was shot dead.

Lewis McFadden had enough support to threaten the Feds power and he was poisoned.

JFK was in the process of abolishing the fed before he was taken out.

Reagan had his own radical views on the economy that ran contrary to the FED and they made a serious attempt on his life, and although it failed, it does seem that afterward he never seriously challenge the FED policy as he had done when he was campaigning.

[magnetic]

Money is a solution to a problem. How to trade with other people.

Every solution has it's inherent flaws/downside. You cannot / will not control every other person into doing things in the way that you consider is right. You can pass laws, but then the laws will have flaws so you have to pass more laws to cover the flaws in the last round of laws, which of course have more flaws.

Why do you think laws are necessary? Is it the passage of laws that prevents crime?

[raw-al]

Do not misinterpret my passion for righteousness and love of sticking it to the man for neurosis. I assure you my stomach has never felt better and my worries about the injustice of the monetary system are justified.

You may play the pacifist if you wish, but I chose to speak out and ride out like Paul Revere and proclaim the bankers are coming.

I never have believed that there is any solution would be perfect or last forever, all I know is that the current system is built upon a foundation of inequity, and that there has to be a better way.

Artificial complexity has been built into the current monetary structure deliberately by those who lord over the issuance of currency. Throughout history there have been brave souls who attempted to return honest and simple money to the people. We need more heroic souls to take on this issue

Julius Caesar was a hero for giving the Romans fair money, and we know what happened to him.

Andrew Jackson's wife was poisoned, and there were multiple attempts on his life during his battle against the bankers.

Honest Abe was going to keep the greenback after the war, and was shot dead.

Lewis McFadden had enough support to threaten the Feds power and he was poisoned.

JFK was in the process of abolishing the fed before he was taken out.

Reagan had his own radical views on the economy that ran contrary to the FED and they made a serious attempt on his life, and although it failed, it does seem that afterward he never seriously challenge the FED policy as he had done when he was campaigning.

I love it "Ride out like Paul Revere and proclaim - The bankers are coming". LOL, that is a great line. I'll keep that in my quiver. Hope you don't mind.

That's an interesting story (Paul Revere) and one that has been morphed and changed into something that it wasn't... however.

Not familiar with Julius Caeser. I will have to read.

Rayguns used his tenure to rob from the poor and give to the rich via his dismal "trickle down Reagonomics". He was shot by a nutbar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_assassination_attempt.

[wodgina]

Craziness tonight.

[wodgina]

This is fairly significant news

http://www.news.com.au/business/venezuela-recalling-11b-in-gold-reserves/story-e6frfm1i-1226117210508

[wodgina]

Good luck getting it!

[ys]

what's going to stop them?  these are not frozen assets.  he can move them around all he wants.

[wodgina]

Because the gold system is the same as the fiat system. It's mostly paper. If people start asking for the physical there will be serious problems because it isn't there.

Gold hit record highs again last night. Still think it's a bubble YS?

[Projectile Vomit]

Of course gold is a bubble. It has little value aside from that imbued upon it by people who believe it is valuable. It has few industrial applications, you don't need it nutritionally, it has no household use aside from to make miserable women (and men) look "pretty".

Gold may well breach $2000/ounce or even $5000/ounce, but once the modern economic system falls apart its worth will be darn close to zero.

[TylerDurden]

When the Great Depression happened, huge numbers of people were out of work and prices dropped like a stone, so that those  who were still in work were effectively very rich, even when on an average salary. I know a man whose father worked in the Chicago Philarmonic Orchestra at that time - the father had bought up huge tracts of dirt-cheap land in the Mid-West with his salary, which he then rented out to farmers.

[wodgina]

Of course gold is a bubble. It has little value aside from that imbued upon it by people who believe it is valuable. It has few industrial applications, you don't need it nutritionally, it has no household use aside from to make miserable women (and men) look "pretty".

Gold may well breach $2000/ounce or even $5000/ounce, but once the modern economic system falls apart its worth will be darn close to zero.

Shit gold could reach $2000 tonight.

[PaleoPhil]

This smells like the big collapse that Nassim Taleb feared.

[wodgina]

I didn't think it was going to happen this quick.

[TylerDurden]

So if property, gold/cash etc. is going to collapse in value, is there anything that will remain high in value, no matter what the economic situation?

[wodgina]

In deflation I think cash is king. Although good farmland/guns/whiskey/gold/cigarettes are always valued.

In hyperinflation cash needs to be turned into any hard assets property/farmland/artwork/liquor/gold.

[ys]

Gold hit record highs again last night. Still think it's a bubble YS?

yes, i do think it's a bubble, it'll probably keep inflating because of fears and volatility.  but someday it'll burst and crash.  it'll crash just like everything else that crashed before - stocks, bonds, currencies, oil, sub-prime securities, other futures, real estate, pork, corn, etc.

are you saying chavez is holding gold futures instead of actual bullion?

[PaleoPhil]

In deflation I think cash is king. Although good farmland/guns/whiskey/gold/cigarettes are always valued.

In hyperinflation cash needs to be turned into any hard assets property/farmland/artwork/liquor/gold.

And in chaotic times like now, it's not clear which way things are headed, if it ever is. With gold shooting up, it looks like the market is betting on inflation, but so far it hasn't materialized. I would lean toward thinking there will eventually be major inflation with all the gov't debt to pay off. Making the debt cheap by inflating the currency is seen by gov'ts as the least painful way out of debt-ridden collapse.

Then again I think it may be best to prepare for either eventuality as well as one can--such as holding both cash (in case of deflation) and hard assets (gold, gold and other precious metal mining stocks, land, a house(s), etc., in case of inflation). For most of my life I've tried to avoid debt, keep expenses low (except for food since going Paleo), and think ahead. One reason I went into the healthcare industry was that I was expecting eventual economic collapse and wanted to work in a relatively stable field. Even if no collapse occurs, it helps me to sleep to be prepared as best I can. The one exception to my general practices has been the condo I bought which so far has held it's value, but the mortgage that goes with it feels like an axe hanging by a thread over my neck.

[magnetic]

Making the debt cheap by inflating the currency is seen by gov'ts as the least painful way out of debt-ridden collapse.

You are right... it is the least painful solution... for the politicians. 

[PaleoPhil]

Yup, and that's all they care about.  

[wodgina]

Hey Phil, Doesn't it suck that people who saved and didn't max out their credit will be the ones who will be most screwed over the next year with hyperinflation?

Inflation has arrived, I stole this from http://whispersfromtheedgeoftherainforest.blogspot.com/



In the meantime, let's take a look at what the reality of what has happened since Ben Bernanke announced his QE2 policy in August 2010:

        Unleaded gas prices are up 45%.
        Heating oil prices are up 46%.
        Corn prices are up 71%.
        Soybean prices are up 26%.
        Rice prices are up 13%.
        Pork prices are up 31%.
        Beef prices are up 25%.
        Coffee prices are up 38%.
        Sugar prices are up 48%.
        Cotton prices are up 13%.
        Gold prices are up 42%.
        Silver prices are up 115%.
        Copper prices are up 23%.

Never mind those figures though... officially the fictional math of the CPI says inflation is only running at 2 - 3%.

[wodgina]

I would leave the US if I lived there.

[PaleoPhil]

Hey Phil, Doesn't it suck that people who saved and didn't max out their credit will be the ones who will be most screwed over the next year with hyperinflation?

Yeah, the prudent get punished and the irresponsible and misguided are rewarded. Think about the unfortunate Chinese who save every spare coin.

[magnetic]

I would leave the US if I lived there.

And go where? (I mean this honestly, I cannot decide)