Author Topic: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health  (Read 138674 times)

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Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #225 on: March 20, 2014, 02:43:20 am »
My farmer friend mentioned that he had "read somewhere" that we evolved to eat meat because we can use tools to crush bones and skulls to exract marrow and brains, which are all the remains that predators and scavengers leave behind.

Offline Iguana

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Re: GCB: Eating meat too often could be harmful to health
« Reply #226 on: March 20, 2014, 02:57:35 am »
Given the vast migrating herds of beats in palaeo times, humans would have had plentiful access to raw meats throughout the palaeolithic era just by scavenging, with no need to hunt.

Yes, I also think we are somewhere between scavengers and carnivores because gamy meat is usually more attractive than fresh meat. In the savannah, yes, there must have been carcasses abandoned by predators, with bones and some muscle meat left. Whether it was easily available every day is an open matter, I don’t know. Hominids must have been cautious to approach because there was certainly predators around. Another question is the availability of organs: the predators seem very fond of it and wouldn’t have left any, as Rogue Farmer wrote above.

I’m not at all against meat consumption: as a matter of fact, along with the other “instincto” old-timers, I’ve probably eaten more raw meat than anyone else on this forum and possibly more than anyone in modern times. I just think that few of our ancestors ate meat of large mammals every day, the whole year round. They also ate other things, such as ostrich eggs, shellfish, insects, plants, tubers and fruits.

Inger, this malaria thing compared to viruses, bacteria and Amerindians case has already been addressed several times, even in your own journal:
This is a real understatement! All the virus and bacterias we have experienced so far since the 60's are our friends : they are here to set a detox, which remains benign as long as the kind of abnormal molecules being expelled from the body are not simultaneously reintroduced by the meals.
The question remains open for parasites: some can still be dangerous and we should absolutely avoid meat from animals badly fed or living in a polluted environment. Malaria (especially falciparum) remains deadly, either.


Not personally but I heard/read that 2 persons died of falciparum because they refused to take medicine, against what GCB advices. One stubbornly stuck to a fast and the other was a girl who was totally desperate following a failed love story.

But are there no diseases at all amongst Amazonian Indians?

They have been very sensitive to infectious diseases brought by Europeans: a large proportion of Amerindians died because of this. As nobody on a 100% instinctive raw paleo nutrition ever died nor has been dangerously affected by any infectious disease transmitted by bacteria or viruses (except from malaria which is more of a parasitic a disease; if I’m not mistaken), we can infer that all these Amerindians wouldn’t have died  if they had a  diet of totally raw, unprocessed foods.

Of course we can’t prove it, but it’s an strong indication.


If the Amerindians were so healthy although they cooked a lot, then we should perhaps cook our food too, Inger?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 03:03:00 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Hanna

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #227 on: March 21, 2014, 06:18:22 pm »
GCB cited by Iguana:
Quote
What constitutes instincotherapy is the rules one has to learn and comply with to re-establish an optimal operation of our alimentary instinct in artificial circumstances. It’s not the simple act to obey to our instinct, but to know how to decrypt what instinct we still have left and how to apply it in modern conditions. Unfortunately, the word “instinctotherapy” may have the drawback to refer exclusively to instinct without referring to any form of training, which can  perhaps be misleading.

I think the point is Instincto has expected far too much from the alliesthetic mechanisms („instinct“) and not taken sufficiently into account certain other aspects that contribute to nutritional balance, including environmental restrictions, cultural learning, learning in general.

Offline Inger

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #228 on: March 21, 2014, 11:55:10 pm »

If the Amerindians were so healthy although they cooked a lot, then we should perhaps cook our food too, Inger?


Yeah, sure. I am not afraid of cooked food anymore like I was when I was instincto ;) I tolerate some gently (in traditional way) cooked meat or seafood pretty well, even if I prefer raw. To me eating sugar is way worse even if raw.

I also do not have cravings like I used to have then... I feel so much at peace with my food and it it not like a "drug" anymore for me, it is just fuel. I love this, very liberating. It frees my mind for so many other things! The very best thing is my bowels. They are just so happy :)

I think Hanna ^^ is spot on...

Offline Sorentus

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #229 on: March 22, 2014, 12:36:40 am »
I agree with Inger on sugar,  that stuff is just so addictive. every time I try to say "oh honey is fine in moderation, I'll just have 2 spoon" then I end up having 5 because I'm hungry and there is no way 2 spoon will full me up specially when it taste so good. Then you can't have honey with other stuff either it's carb and shouldn't be mixed with fat or protein so really you can only have it in moderation which I can't do and you can't mix it with anything except carb which just makes everything worse. So I have no choice but to resist the urge and let that honey in the box. I mean really, the only way I could be satisfied with honey is eating a whole jar at once, like if it was an actual meal or if you were to find it in nature.

Offline Iguana

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly could be harmful to health
« Reply #230 on: March 22, 2014, 07:09:15 am »
I think the point is Instincto has expected far too much from the alliesthetic mechanisms („instinct“) and not taken sufficiently into account certain other aspects that contribute to nutritional balance, including environmental restrictions, cultural learning, learning in general.

I wonder what exactly you mean by “instincto”. Do you refer to the theory, to the way it is practiced by some people, to the way GCB wrote or taught it, or to something else?

I agree that the environmental conditions and restrictions are important and perhaps GCB has not emphasized it enough. Anyway, as he specified, his book was not intended to explain how to practice it as this was the task of the seminars he gave.

Yeah, sure. I am not afraid of cooked food anymore like I was when I was instincto ;)

That’s interesting. I’m curious what you mean by frequently writing  “when I was instincto”. How have you known about it, what do know about it, how did you learn about it, how and how long did practice it?  I feel there’s something odd in saying “I’m instincto” or “I was instincto” because there’s no such species. We are all homo sapiens sapiens, there's no way to be “instinctos” or “not instinctos”!  :)

There may be Buddhists, Christians, communists, etc. but the instinctonutrition is neither a religion nor an ideology. Myself never say “I’m instincto”: it’s only an experiment I’ve been doing for more than 27 years and which I can stop whenever I want, maybe tomorrow or maybe never. It doesn’t make me afraid of cooked foods, and I always thought that I may eat cooked foods again one day.

Quote
I tolerate some gently (in traditional way) cooked meat or seafood pretty well, even if I prefer raw. To me eating sugar is way worse even if raw. I also do not have cravings like I used to have then...

It’s normal, one can even feel better when eating cooked food once in a way, because in this way the immune system in kept in a state of tolerance and thus no detoxination work is undertaken.

Your relentless demonization of sugars is funny. You’ve got to tell hunter-gatherers and several species of mammals including our closest ancestors about it.  ;)

I agree with Inger on sugar,  that stuff is just so addictive. every time I try to say "oh honey is fine in moderation, I'll just have 2 spoon" then I end up having 5 because I'm hungry and there is no way 2 spoon will full me up specially when it taste so good. Then you can't have honey with other stuff either it's carb and shouldn't be mixed with fat or protein so really you can only have it in moderation which I can't do and you can't mix it with anything except carb which just makes everything worse. So I have no choice but to resist the urge and let that honey in the box. I mean really, the only way I could be satisfied with honey is eating a whole jar at once, like if it was an actual meal or if you were to find it in nature.

Usually, we don’t eat honey before anything else, but only if we are still hungry a while after a meal. But you seem to have a great need of it, because unheated honey gives a very clear and strong stop signal. I could never eat more than a few teaspoons of honey — and nowadays hardly a small one.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 03:25:29 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Sorentus

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #231 on: March 22, 2014, 07:34:06 am »
I get to tell when I should stop, but it doesn't come from a place of satiety rather, it's about knowing when it will over burden my body. I'll remain hungry either way.

Offline Iguana

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly could be harmful to health
« Reply #232 on: March 22, 2014, 03:22:20 pm »
Eat something else at least a few minutes before or after, then, like we do. Not meat, it doesn't associates well with honey but nuts, veggies or fruits usually digest fine with honey. 
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #233 on: March 22, 2014, 11:39:06 pm »
I use honey to digest excessive amounts of fat, which I was instructed to do somewheres I read, can't remember where. High mineral sugar helps us to digest more fat than we can if we eat fat alone. The fat absorbs the sugar and causes it to more slowly release into the digestive system and not cause a sugar rush, I avoid eating carbs with protein or fat like the plague, because it makes me feel bad by itself, get a bit dizzy and become exhausted a little while later, however I never get this if I eat protein or fat along with the carbs.

Offline Sorentus

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #234 on: March 23, 2014, 12:46:09 am »
Good idea, something I'll give a try to when my digestion is better Atm the only way I can eat fat without stomach burn is with digestive enzymes. I tried eating a ripe plantain with honey and it was a stomach disaster.

Offline Hanna

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #235 on: March 24, 2014, 03:44:09 pm »
I wonder what exactly you mean by “instincto”.

I refer to the theory and the people who practise(d) it.

Offline Iguana

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Re: GCB: Eating meat too often could be harmful to health
« Reply #236 on: March 29, 2014, 06:23:57 am »
 
I think the point is Instincto has expected far too much from the alliesthetic mechanisms („instinct“) and not taken sufficiently into account certain other aspects that contribute to nutritional balance, including environmental restrictions, cultural learning, learning in general.
I refer to the theory and the people who practise(d) it.

Perhaps, for many of these people. But it’s not a monolithic, homogeneous group. On the contrary, there are very different people in it, with different ways to practice. There’s even someone here who doesn’t practice the “instincto” at all, but nevertheless choose that word in his pseudo… while there are some who don’t want to say nor hear that they are on instinctive-nutrition even if they practice it quite well!  ;D

It’s clear that learning is of utmost importance and that’s why stages and seminars were organized. Otherwise it would take decades in being sometimes hungry in various unspoiled wildernesses to discover alone a sufficient food range. 
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 02:49:54 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Hanna

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #237 on: May 15, 2014, 06:32:48 pm »
Back to topic: I ate bee brood in the previous weeks and strongly reduced and even cancelled my consumption of fish and meat. However, when I began to eat meat again, I quickly noticed, that I'm physically and mentally much fitter, if I include meat in my diet. Bee brood has positive effects on my skin, so I will probably continue to eat it (or insects in general). But I will continue to eat meat and fish regularly as well.

Offline Hanna

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Offline van

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #239 on: May 15, 2014, 11:14:44 pm »
Hanna your experience of feeling fitter on meat and fish is probably similar to mine.   And I think the reason is that most of the brood, unless very mature, as in those baby bees are just about to emerge from the comb, is very high in sugar, hence what gives it such taste appeal.  And my guess, and I say it again, my guess, is that GCG enjoys or is accustomed to a diet high in sugars. 

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #240 on: May 16, 2014, 12:37:01 am »
I found a source where I can order the entire harvest of wild honey with baby bees if I pay for the entire expedition.  Hope I get to experience those baby bees too.
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Offline van

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #241 on: May 17, 2014, 12:12:10 am »
When typically one gets frames of bee brood, the bee brood is in the middle surrounded by large amounts of new honey.  One has to be just a little disciplined for the long run not to eat too much honey, which is so easy to do when it's staring you in the face as you scoop out the brood.  And as mentioned before,  very young bee brood is very high in sugars/very sweet in itself and I would imagine raises blood sugar after eating to some good degree, but haven't tested that notion,, just a strong hunch. 

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #242 on: May 17, 2014, 07:34:51 am »
Yeah, I ate a lot of honey at first when I first found one I could tolerate reasonably well. Perhaps my body needed it. Over time, I found it became easier to moderate my intake. Now I rarely eat more than 1 tbsp in a day.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline van

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #243 on: May 17, 2014, 11:09:58 pm »
I think for some, they simply just listen to their body.   Another way to say it is that some are more sensitive to spikes in blood sugar and some even care about the very notion,, while some don't have an interest or have not abused their bodies enough over time to be able to feel the results.     I know that when I ate lots of fruit, my beliefs about how 'healthy' it was for me over road  the feedback my body was offering to me.   So often it comes down to what are we willing to pay attention to.

Offline zaidi

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #244 on: May 20, 2014, 09:59:11 am »
Dandelion Greens .... Inger

I am little confused about RS and Prebiotics like Topinambour/Dandelions etc.


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« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 11:13:14 am by zaidi »

Offline zaidi

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #245 on: May 20, 2014, 05:26:28 pm »
Good information about Bee Brood (from page 17).

http://www.bee-hexagon.net/files/file/fileE/Health/RJBookReview.pdf

Offline Inger

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #246 on: May 20, 2014, 06:39:38 pm »
I right now eat quite some dandelion flowers almost every day, so yummy! Our sheep love them too.....

If the nutritional instinct would work correctly it should lead us to eat what is beneficial for us, no?
So far I have not seen this too much.. so I agree with you Hanna... seems we need conscious education and conditioning quite a bit

Offline Sorentus

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #247 on: May 21, 2014, 03:25:06 am »
I right now eat quite some dandelion flowers almost every day, so yummy! Our sheep love them too.....

If the nutritional instinct would work correctly it should lead us to eat what is beneficial for us, no?
So far I have not seen this too much.. so I agree with you Hanna... seems we need conscious education and conditioning quite a bit

Because we live in a society that is SO out of line with our nature, we are told every single day someone else's truth and we don't know what to believe anymore. We are told low carb, zero carb, high fat, sugar is bad, too much fruits is too much sugar, plants are poisons, avoid anti nutrients and then we use words like safe starches. The idea of safe starch is ridiculous, it is food or it is not, either it's good for us or its not, there shouldn't be any concept of what is safe to consume but rather what we SHOULD consume. There is so many different opinions out there about what we are "instinctively" supposed to do and we have lost complete track of our true instinct that we simply don't even follow them even if we should because we are told that it is bad for us so we engage in behavior that are harmful to us because we are told "this will heal you".

Offline eveheart

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #248 on: May 21, 2014, 05:37:22 am »
The idea of safe starch is ridiculous, it is food or it is not, either it's good for us or its not, there shouldn't be any concept of what is safe to consume but rather what we SHOULD consume.

I think the opposite is true: if people have become ill or metabolically unbalanced, they should be given the information to help them heal. Illness is complicated and healing is complicated. You yourself, Sorentus, have come to this forum with severe digestive issues, and you have shared your struggles with some of the typical foods that many of us consume. How would it have helped you if we sent you the same words that you now send to others?

Sometimes healing the body is like automotive repair - the mechanic thinks about the problem and replaces a part, and if the car works, fine... if not, the mechanic thinks again and replaces another part. That's all we're doing here - thinking and trying new things to find what works.
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline Inger

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #249 on: May 21, 2014, 07:00:49 pm »
I agree healing can be complicated these day. Because of our unnatural ways of living (staring in a computer all day long... might mitigate all the great foods effect..)

I think when wanting to heal we need to have an open mind and take into account as many factors as possible.
+ always think, what does Nature say?

 

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