Author Topic: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health  (Read 138928 times)

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Offline Hanna

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #250 on: May 21, 2014, 08:01:16 pm »
we have lost complete track of our true instinct

The trouble is that there isn’t any alimentary instinct, not even in animals. Only if you unduly stretch the meaning of the term instinct, you can claim that there is an alimentary instinct. In any case this supposed instinct doesn’t do what GCB expects or expected it to do, not even in animals! The first link in my previous post is about animals (reptiles and amphibians), who are often overfed by humans and therefore become diseased, even if they are only offered their natural raw foods. Their need for food is very low compared with mammals and therefore is often vastly overestimated by humans. In nature they don’t catch much nutritious food because the don’t move much etc. Obviously, since they have developed in interaction with their environment, which includes a limited availability of nutritious foods, this interaction with the environment - and not an alimentary instinct confronted with a variety of raw foods - sustains their nutritional health in nature. This is what finally convinced me we can’t rely on an instinct when it comes to dosing (certain) raw foods or to choosing the composition of our diet. However, I still guess that alliesthetic signals protect us from poisoning ourselves, for example, with antinutrients contained in greens and vegetables. 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 11:30:44 pm by Hanna »

Offline zaidi

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #251 on: May 22, 2014, 05:08:49 am »
VAN .... Hanna

I have also got the offer to buy Bee Brood.

1) But I am told that Larvae die within 24 hours. Therefore, I don't know HOW MUCH should I order.

2) How to transport it? (BEE farm haus is almost 1 hour drive away).

3) Is it possible to buy in big quantity and then keep them in the Refrigerator (and also to freeze one part in the deep freezer)?

4) It seems it comes in Frames. And I have no idea how to get it out of the frame.

Any how, all the things are difficult for the FIRST time.

Offline van

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #252 on: May 22, 2014, 05:40:49 am »
It's really quite simple once you do it.   I think they do fine in the fridge.  I don't freeze anything except water.    Try to keep them warm when transporting, if concerned.   Then put in fridge.  Some of the more developed brood will hatch and crawl around your fridge for a while in the beginning or in transport.   Take a large metal spoon and simply scrape right down to the bottom of the frame of wax.  Your bee keeper can show you what I mean.  But basically most beekeepers put a new empty frame in the hive (unless they have just spun out the honey, then the empty comb and frame will go back into the hive).   The bees will then build up the come from the was floor provided by the bee keeper.  You simply scrape off the comb keeping the floor intact to return to the beekeeper to put back into the hive (recycle).   Chew on it, sucking out the juices etc.  and eventually spit out the wax.  I think you could keep in fridge maybe five days, and eat half a frame, maybe more of brood.  Remember you'll probably get one half of the frame in either honey or honey and pollen along with the brood, depending on how the queen lays. 

Offline Sorentus

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #253 on: May 22, 2014, 06:47:02 am »
I agree healing can be complicated these day. Because of our unnatural ways of living (staring in a computer all day long... might mitigate all the great foods effect..)

I think when wanting to heal we need to have an open mind and take into account as many factors as possible.
+ always think, what does Nature say?

I take sun and walks every day now that I have the energy to do so!

Offline Hanna

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #254 on: May 22, 2014, 09:00:28 pm »
Hanna your experience of feeling fitter on meat and fish is probably similar to mine.   And I think the reason is that most of the brood, unless very mature, as in those baby bees are just about to emerge from the comb, is very high in sugar

Well, I usually have early stops when I eat honey (although not necessarily when I eat fruit). Maybe this is the reason, why I can’t eat great amounts of bee brood and why I fare better including a variety of animal foods in my diet. Eating a variety of animal foods instead of only bee brood I simply eat more animal food at all.

Offline Hanna

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #255 on: June 25, 2014, 06:45:14 am »
Updates concerning myself: 

But I will continue to eat meat and fish regularly as well.
Well, to be honest, I have reduced (and currently cancelled) my mammal meat consumption again for several reasons.

BTW, I said adieu to the supposed nutritional instinct:
http://rohkosternaehrung.blogspot.de/2014/04/ernahrungsinstinkt-ade.html
http://rohkosternaehrung.blogspot.de/2014/04/ernahrungsinstinkt-ade-die-zweite.html
These links don’t work anymore.
However, this link (text in German) is up to date: http://frohkost.blogspot.de/2014/06/gibt-es-einen-ernahrungsinstinkt.html

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #256 on: June 25, 2014, 07:57:44 am »
Hi Hanna, Thanks for honestly and courageously sharing your suboptimal results. Some may attack you for doing so, but I find that I learn as much if not more from people who have had suboptimal results as from those who have had good results.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Inger

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #257 on: June 25, 2014, 10:53:43 pm »
Hanna, would you share details?

How / what is you eating now? What was the symptoms that made you change.

Offline Hanna

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #258 on: June 26, 2014, 06:40:26 am »
I eat mainly seafood as my animal food - just as I did in the previous years. In the previous months I ate much more mammal meat than I used to eat. Not sure whether or not this caused symptoms. Symptoms potentially caused by an increased mammal meat intake seem to have disappeared but maybe they would also have disappeared if I had continued my meat consumption as before. Therefore I won´t speculate about that. Currently I don’t like mammal meat anyway (maybe in part because of warm weather) and feel fine and fit without any mammal meat.

Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #259 on: June 26, 2014, 08:24:57 pm »
I am typically affronted by a great wall of honey that would take me over a year to consume. If it has been unavailable for some time I will eat a bunch of gobs of it but generally I eat just a small amount and even forget that it is there, however it certainly helps me to stay alert and focused to eat a small amount throughout the day. Living off of large amounts even with bee brood in it I can't imagine would not soon have dire consequences for my teeth.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #260 on: June 27, 2014, 07:49:57 am »
Stone Age Europeans, such as those of the caves of Altamira, and today's hunter-gatherers, such as the Hadza, gorged/gorge on massive quantities of honey for weeks at a time during peak season  (yet another piece of evidence refuting the zero carb myth, BTW), yet no evidence has been found of it causing dental problems. One wonders what the secret of their success was/is? Did/do they have a super-metabolism, a fantastic microbiome, abundant and vigorous mitochondria, much healthier honey, ...? And why do so many of us modern Westerners, in contrast, have problems with many raw honeys?

Quote
The Hadza, as I discovered, prize honey above all else in their diet. Hadza mothers wean their young on liquid honey, and during the wet season, particularly the months of February and April, Hadza families gorge for weeks on its sticky sweetness.  The men possess an expert knowledge of bees and bee behavior, giving the honeys produced by different species different names. Those who forage for honey figure prominently in Hadza mythology.

And there is indeed something almost magical about the way that Hadza collect honey.

While out hunting, the men listen for the call of a small, robin-size bird known as the greater honeyguide (Indicator indicator.) The bird dines almost entirely on beeswax and bee larvae, but it needs help to crack open hives. So the honeyguide calls to both honey badgers and Hadza hunters. When human hunters whistle back, the bird gradually leads the men by call-and-response song to the nearest colony.

The Hadzas’ favorite type of honey, ba’alako, comes from the hives of the Apis unicolor adansonii, an aggressive species that frequently builds near the top of tall baobab trees. To gather it, the men pound wooden pegs into the tree trunk and climb with burning brush in their hands to smoke out the bees—a dangerous undertaking.  One slip can lead to death.  When the smoke has finally sedated the bees, the men steal the honey combs and reward the honeyguide with large chunks of beeswax.

Why is honey so crucial to the Hadza?  In a recent paper, Alyssa Crittenden, an anthropologist and behavioral ecologist, at the University of Nevada, points out that wild honey is one of nature’s most energy-rich foods. It is 80 to 95 percent sugar and, if left unprocessed, contains both protein and fat from bits of bee larvae. As a rule, hunter-gatherers struggle to find calories: a scoop of honey supplies a huge hit.

In her ethnographic research on honey consumption, Crittenden discovered that human hunters have long targeted bee hives. The artists who painted Altamira cave in what is now Spain some 25,000 years ago, for example, left depictions of bees,  honeycombs, and—most amazing of all,  in my opinion—honey collection ladders.

The Sweetness of Human Evolution

By Heather Pringle | September 20, 2012
I noticed that fermented raw honey causes much less problems for my teeth than other raw honeys, though even with fermented raw honey, I don't handle it as well as Stone Agers and HGs.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 07:56:52 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #261 on: June 27, 2014, 02:48:25 pm »
HGs/Stone-Agers never had access to vast amounts of raw honey.  Raw honey would have been a rare treat.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Sorentus

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #262 on: July 06, 2014, 06:38:53 am »
HGs/Stone-Agers never had access to vast amounts of raw honey.  Raw honey would have been a rare treat.

I dont think honey is meant for human consumption at all. It's far from being like meat where meat is food, has water vitamin and minerals. I get very sick from even a little bit of raw honey fermented or not, once I had so much that I couldn't breathe and had nausea for a whole day. I dont have this problem with any form of sugar except honey. Only fat made me ill like this and rancid fat too, raw meat never disagreed with me in such way. Fat require a strong liver and I believe so does honey.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #263 on: July 06, 2014, 07:33:28 am »
"In her ethnographic research on honey consumption, Crittenden discovered that human hunters have long targeted bee hives. The artists who painted Altamira cave in what is now Spain some 25,000 years ago, for example, left depictions of bees,  honeycombs, and—most amazing of all,  in my opinion—honey collection ladders. And in Zimbabwe, archaeologists recorded a cave depiction of a human smoking out a beehive. San hunters and gatherers in the region told archaeologists that their ancestors had frequented the cave for nearly 10,000 years." - Heather Pringle, The Sweetness of Human Evolution, September 20, 2012, http://www.lastwordonnothing.com/2012/09/20/the-sweetness-of-human-evolution


"Upper Paleolithic rock art from Spain, India, Australia, and southern Africa all illustrate collecting honey. Altamira cave, in Cantabria, Spain, includes depictions of honeycombs, dated approximately 25,000 years ago. The Mesolithic Cueva de la Araña rock shelter, in Valencia Spain, contains depictions of honey collection, bee swarms, and men climbing ladders to get to the bees, at ~10,000 years ago.

Some scholars believe that collecting honey is much earlier than that, since our immediate cousins the primates regularly collect honey on their own. Crittendon has suggested that Lower Paleolithic Oldowan stone tools (2.5 mya) could have been used to split open beehives, and there's no reason that a self-respecting Australopithecine or early Homo could not have done that." - K. Kris Hirst, History of Honey Bees: The Human Management of Apis mellifera, http://archaeology.about.com/od/hterms/qt/Honey-Bees.htm

---*---

"hunting with the Hadza meant walking through brush, across savannahs, up hills and down escarpements from 7 am until 2 pm, which was a short day for them. We saw gazelles, wild boars and baboons, but didn’t catch anything. We’d be in the trail of gazelle, zebra, giraffe, ect., but our guides just kept getting sidetracked by honey! I guess its immediate and guaranteed food whereas the animals are much harder to catch." ("Living with the Hadzabe in Tanzania's Yaeda Valley," http://apvtravels.blogspot.com/2011/02/living-with-hadzabe-in-tanzanias-yaeda.html)

Alyssa Crittenden: How honey helped to make us human…
"Foragers in Latin America, Asia, Australia, and Africa include honey and bee larvae as major components of their diet. The Hadza hunter-gatherers of Tanzania, the population with whom I work, even list honey as their number one preferred food item!" - Dr. Elizabeth Gray, http://www.thehadzalastofthefirst.com/2012/07/30/alyssa-crittenden-how-honey-helped-to-make-us-human





From "Sex Differences in Food Preferences of Hadza Hunter-Gatherers" (2009. 7(4): 601-616, http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/EP07601616.pdf):
> “The most highly prized components of the Aboriginal hunter-gatherer diet were the relatively few energy-dense foods: depot fat, organ meats, fatty insects and honey” (O’Dea, Jewell, Whiten, Altmann, Strickland, and Oftedal, 1991, p. 238)
> Honey is the most energy dense food in nature (Skinner, 1991), and is highly prized by the Hadza. Honey combs often contain small amounts of bee larvae, which the Hadza consume along with the comb.
> Both males and females ranked honey first [in terms of preference]...
> ethnographers often claim that meat is the most preferred food among foragers (including the Hadza) (Bunn, 2001), yet our empirical data on individual preferences demonstrates that honey is more preferred than meat among the Hadza.

---*---

"The story of Beowulf includes a Mead-Hall called Heorot that was so big and had so much attendant laughter that the monster Grendel broke in and slaughtered the noisemakers." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead_hall

"This Estland [Estonia] is very large and has many fortified settlements, and in each of these there is a king. There is a great deal of honey and fishing." - Wulfstan, Two Voyagers at the court of King Alfred, trans. by Christine E. Fell (York, 1984). https://classesv2.yale.edu/access/content/user/haw6/Vikings/voyagers.html

---*---

Gurung honey hunter of Nepal with a load of honeycomb.

Raji nomad of Nepal gathering honeycomb.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 08:03:25 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline van

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #264 on: July 06, 2014, 08:45:05 am »
I find it interesting, again and again, how if our 'ancestors' or early man ate  something, we think it has to be good for us.  I wonder how many here can gorge on honey and come away feeling better.  Not more sugared up, but better in overall health.  I know I never could,  even in my high fruit years.   I thought I could though.    I see honey as really no different than candy in a candy shop for children or for that matter adults.  Most can't resist.  But we think if it's natural, we can eat all we want.  We think the same of protein too, especially if it's grass fed...     And really why would these simple peoples even think about resisting eating all they could?  It is so pleasurable to eat, period. 
   But back to Tyler's assertion, about there not being vast amounts of honey....   I don't know how large a tribe or community those men are bring back comb to,  and actually how often they can go out into the forests and find it?   those really are a few of the important questions.  Also how much exercise did they expend to search it out, versus us who simply mail order on line etc.    Doug Graham, only gets away with eating sugar all day, Durian Rider too, because he's constantly exercising.   

Offline Iguana

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #265 on: July 06, 2014, 06:17:56 pm »
I find it interesting, again and again, how if our 'ancestors' or early man ate  something, we think it has to be good for us.   

Isn’t the very basic principle of paleo diets to allow the consumption of all the foods possibly and probably eaten by our paleo-ancestors, excluding foods unavailable then?

I understand this is based on the fact that we are extremely likely adapted to foods eaten by our ancestors during millions years.   
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #266 on: July 06, 2014, 08:04:32 pm »

Isn’t the very basic principle of paleo diets to allow the consumption of all the foods possibly and probably eaten by our paleo-ancestors, excluding foods unavailable then?

I understand this is based on the fact that we are extremely likely adapted to foods eaten by our ancestors during millions years.
I don't think we can assume with certainty that just because our Paleo-ancestors ate a food that we can eat it without ill effects today. That would be blind Paleo re-enactment, which I reject in my avatar text. The evidence we have about the diets of our ancestors are clues, rough templates, starting points, rather than detailed prescriptions for optimal diets today.
   
And really why would these simple peoples even think about resisting eating all they could?   It is so pleasurable to eat, period.
Exactly, and to eat their fill (in season, of course, among nomadic peoples) instead of just a smidgeon or two would be quite Instincto. In light of your point, how anyone could think that they ate little or no honey and never gorged on it or think honey is not meant for human consumption at all is a mystery.

Quote
I don't know how large a tribe or community those men are bring back comb to,
Are you aware that honey-hunters reportedly typically eat their fill before bringing honeycomb back to a camp?
   
The real question isn't whether HG's eat their fill of honey when available (I don't know of a single credible scientist who claims they don't), it's how they apparently tolerate it better than many of us, if the reports are accurate. Figure that out and it may provide interesting clues about how to improve our own health.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Iguana

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #267 on: July 06, 2014, 10:32:20 pm »
The real question isn't whether HG's eat their fill of honey when available (I don't know of a single credible scientist who claims they don't), it's how they apparently tolerate it better than many of us, if the reports are accurate. Figure that out and it may provide interesting clues about how to improve our own health.

The real answer could well be that they have eaten fewer processed carbs (bread, pasta, refined sugar, cooked potatoes, etc.) in their lives than most of us and therefore eating wild honey doesn’t trigger nasty detox symptoms on them.

We should be aware that feeling bad after consuming the proper amount of a fine tasting unprocessed food which was certainly eaten by our ancestors during millions years doesn’t necessarily mean that this food is bad for us. Activating a detox is certainly a favorable thing for our long term health, even if we feel somehow unwell at the moment.

This is a general recurrent misinterpretation on here because it’s difficult to distinguish between useful detox and real harm. It’s completely erroneous to assume that detox only occurs during the few first months: experiments on animals have shown that it lasts roughly the same period as the duration of the previous intoxination. That means 6 months of processed food will be followed by 6 months of (decreasing) detox symptoms; 30 years of intox, roughly 30 years of (less and less) noticeable detox. But punctual strong detox symptoms can still happen after several years of raw paleo diet, following the consumption of an unusual food which trigger the elimination of a particular class of noxious molecules ingested decades earlier. 

Other points are that all commercial bee honeys, even certified unheated, have been somehow overheated at least in small part of it, for example with a hot plunger which doesn’t overheat the mass of the honey but only the tiny layer surrounding it. Also, most bee hives are fed industrial refined sucrose.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline van

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #268 on: July 07, 2014, 12:19:55 am »
I don't think we can assume with certainty that just because our Paleo-ancestors ate a food that we can eat it without ill effects today. That would be blind Paleo re-enactment, which I reject in my avatar text. The evidence we have about the diets of our ancestors are clues, rough templates, starting points, rather than detailed prescriptions for optimal diets today.
   Exactly, and to eat their fill (in season, of course, among nomadic peoples) instead of just a smidgeon or two would be quite Instincto. In light of your point, how anyone could think that they ate little or no honey and never gorged on it or think honey is not meant for human consumption at all is a mystery.
Are you aware that honey-hunters reportedly typically eat their fill before bringing honeycomb back to a camp?
   
The real question isn't whether HG's eat their fill of honey when available (I don't know of a single credible scientist who claims they don't), it's how they apparently tolerate it better than many of us, if the reports are accurate. Figure that out and it may provide interesting clues about how to improve our own health.
       And the debate continues,,
  Ah thanks, then you answered your own question; with a little (unknowing) help from Iguana.  In your excerpts, they write how they traveled for hours just to get to the honey, and then presumably hours to get back to camp.  Phil when is the last time you walked that far for some honey and tested the effects of honey on your insulin/blood sugar?   Another point, how in the world do you know either way as to any effect of large amounts of honey on these people?  I'm not reading where there's anyone doing insulin/leptin resistant tests before and after, and not to mention comparing those that did gorge vs. those that didn't gorge after ten or twenty years of gorging or not gorging.  This may sound absorb, but in truth it's their own bodies that are doing the testing.  I know when I was doing Instincto, doing WAI diet,  I felt fine, even great for a while.   And the degradation that took place, little by little, over time, was so subtle, that it was very hard to notice;  that being sugar and insulin abuse to an already insulin sensitive body as mine. 

   Which brings me to Iguana's contribution ( of which I doubt seriously he will again not want to open Pandora's box).   The processed foods he listed are also some of the highest in creating insulin sensitivity and hence diabetes...   He describes it as detox.   I think my 42 years eating raw now puts me out of the raw carb or sugar detox suspicion.    Yes, about 25 years ago, I did go through some latent raw protein detox (as I've mentioned here at least a couple of times).   

    So, Phil if you're looking ways to incorporate large amounts of honey in your diet, may I suggest burning  a thousand plus calories as exercise in the process,   and keep us informed if your RS is all you need to eat all the honey you want and not effect long term insulin/leptin resistance  and hence hormonal damage due to blood sugar swings. 
    The other point not mentioned in your excerpts is how often do they find honey in copious amounts to be able to gorge?   Is it once a day, or once a week, or once a month....  People who tend to abuse their systems with sugar tend to do it daily if not several times a day.     When I was in High School and played football,  I'll never forget the night part of the team that I hung out with went to a Swedish smorgasbord.   We all had three HEAPING plates of the main meal, and then just as many plates of desserts, believing that the more we ate, the more we'd weigh and have more energy the next day.   The amazing thing was,  back then, at 18, there was No real discernible effect.  Let anyone here try that now (not the football game part) and see how they feel the next day.  I only mention this to again point out, how absorb it is to assume that those who gorge on honey at the honey tree aren't or are harming themselves, short or long term. 

Offline Hanna

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #269 on: July 07, 2014, 01:30:44 am »
In your excerpts, they write how they traveled for hours just to get to the honey, and then presumably hours to get back to camp.  Phil when is the last time you walked that far for some honey and tested the effects of honey on your insulin/blood sugar?

That's the point. They may find a lot of honey, but they have to spend a lot of calories, do a lot of exercise to get it (or to survive in general). At least in the long term.

Offline Iguana

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #270 on: July 07, 2014, 02:05:42 am »
Which brings me to Iguana's contribution ( of which I doubt seriously he will again not want to open Pandora's box).   The processed foods he listed are also some of the highest in creating insulin sensitivity and hence diabetes...   He describes it as detox.
?? I don’t understand what you mean. Do you mean that I said eating those processed foods triggers detox?!   ???

Sure, hunters-gatherers spend a lot of energy to get some food, be it meat, honey or whatever and it would be ideal for our health if we had to do the same. Anyway, I seriously doubt that anyone, either a million years ago or nowadays, would be able to eat huge amounts of unprocessed totally raw honey everyday during months and years!
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline sabertooth

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #271 on: July 07, 2014, 02:15:03 am »

 
The real question isn't whether HG's eat their fill of honey when available (I don't know of a single credible scientist who claims they don't), it's how they apparently tolerate it better than many of us, if the reports are accurate. Figure that out and it may provide interesting clues about how to improve our own health.

There is nothing to figure out. Hunter-gather paleolithic man in their prime must have had a suburb enzymatic capacity to devour and metabolize large portions of honey intermittently. HG man lived much in the same way that the bears lived. Foraging constantly, living primarily off of meat and foliage, and when they found high carb foods such as berry patches and honey combs periodically, they had the ability to gorge without any long-term ill effects.

It would be interesting to test the primitive man after consuming a pound of honey compared to the average modern urban dweller. Do they get a huge Bs spike, or a carb crash. Do they sleep it off lazily and convert the excess into stored fat like bears or does it give them energy that they burn off with increased physical activity?
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #272 on: July 07, 2014, 02:52:32 am »
Interesting posts, folks. Most of the factors mentioned above do seem plausible and occurred to me as well, with none seeming to be the entire answer. I suspect that multiple factors are at work. Sabertooth's questions are ones I've thought about and am particularly interested to see scientific investigation into.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 03:16:12 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Hanna

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #273 on: September 14, 2014, 11:55:39 pm »
Updates concerning myself: 
Well, to be honest, I have reduced (and currently cancelled) my mammal meat consumption again for several reasons.
The mammal meat stored in a fridge in the basement has meanwhile turned into stone. I will certainly eat meat again in the future, but for now, I haven’t been motivated to do so. The reasons why I stopped to eat meat are described here (in German only): http://frohkost.blogspot.de/2013/10/sind-probleme-im-zusammenhang-mit.html
The main reason in short: a return of allergic symptoms which stopped after I had stopped to eat meat.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 03:30:54 am by Hanna »

Offline van

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Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #274 on: September 15, 2014, 02:50:33 am »
too bad it's in German, anyone care to give a general idea in english what's said.     I don't know what you mean by stone.  I'm wondering if this is more of a 'head' concept you're going through?   It's pretty easy to want to believe what we want to.   Also I question as to how much meat you were eating at one meal?  More and more it's evident to me at least of how little meat protein I need at one meal, the rest being a burden on my system.   You might care to experiment by eat quite a bit less.

 

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