Lex, I am sooo glad that all is well - when people don't post on any of the forums I fear that "things are not as they used to be"...

To know that your colon is in good form is worth more than any marathon that people estimate as being a successful, happy and healthy life!

Did you eat your own food on holiday and have you kept up the exercise?

Please look in Charles own forum (he left the other one because "zero carb" does not sell any Atkins bars that Jimmy is trying to flog):

http://zerocarbage.com/index.php

Nicola

I know, he's been gone so much that some of you may have forgotten him.  Craig is the forum owner and founder.  He is super laid back and groovy.

I was just making fun but he should not just look in and say "Happy Birthday" or "what about Lex"; poor Tyler  

Nicola

The idea that grassfed meat is always expensive is nonsense. I've managed to get hold of very cheap grassfed horsemeat in Italy, for example, which is FAR cheaper than the grainfed beef on offer, over there. Same here in the UK, I can get whole wild-hare carcasses, complete with organ-meats, inside(albeit headless), for 10-11 pounds each(13 pounds if I don't order them regularly, which is rare), a massive grassfed leg of mutton for 14-16 pounds sterling etc. Plus, as grainfed meat is inferior nutritionally, one has to eat more of it to get most of the right nutrients, though one would miss out on omega-3s, mostly.

and if you had 3 children (say 3, 4 and 6 years); would you give them tough raw meat? What would you do when they get runny stools - or would that not happen? I am just trying to make a picture of what goes on in others.

I also can not understand, how you can digest cooked starch (Christmas pudding) on special occasions; the body looses the ability to digest things that it never gets! That is not a thing that can be put right by high meat, fasting or what ever - that is just giving the mind an answer to the problem.

Nicola

Yay Nicola!  Thank you.  I searched for it and couldn't find it.  Nice url he has.

I have found the answer to your/Tylers question and yes the whole forum looks and is good:

All of you who enjoy this forum, please give a special thanks to Dixonge because he was instrumental in making me reject Jimmy's offer and deciding to go it alone! He did the research and laid the groundwork for this new forum.

So is that why Jimmy is deleting all the zero carb posts? I think THE reason Jimmy jumped on the zc way of living is because he makes his living with low carb. ZCers don't buy frankenfoods or supplements, etc.

I'm glad you went independent Charles. Are you having to pay for all of this yourself? Is there a way for us to help?

Dixonge, thanks so much for the help you have given. I'm just beginning this new way and can't wait to see the changes down the road.

I paid for all of this myself and it really wasn't all that bad. It was important to me to go independent and not rely on Jimmy or his resources.

At some point I may approach some companies for advertisers, but it would have to be people that we use. I won't go to Atkins just to get a dollar. I would use meat distributors, ranchers, or even bottled water companies. I would love to get the beef industry involved with us; after all, I am their most ardent supporter! We need an add around here that says, Beef, It's what's for dinner!

On the other hand, I would not want someone to argue that I do this for money; although it would be nice to do something I love and make a living as well.


Nicola

This is what Dr. Groves has to say to the Bear's answer:

Hello Nicola

It is true that no carnivore ADDS salt, or looks for a salt-lick in the wild as herbivores do. But that is because blood in meat is salty. Meat killed and eaten soon after death contains salt; a lion eats the bloody meat. But our modern methods of bleeding animals and hanging the carcase for weeks, reduce the amount of salt in most store-bought meat.

But, I agree with Bear: why obsess about it? There is no danger from eating more salt than your body needs. The excess is merely secreted, either in sweat or in urine. And, yes, the kidneys do conserve salt quite well. But if you sweat a lot because of physical work or living in a hot climate, it is not just water shortage that can kill you bu the loss of salt.

I add very little salt to my food; I have difficulty getting even close to the 6 grams we are supposed to eat (it's usually struggle to add 1 gram). But do I know when I am not getting enough because I do get cramps, as does my wife and several others I know of. I have proven (at least to my satisfaction). that insufficient salt is to blame for these occurances.

regards

Barry


Well all I can say is that both the Bear and Dr. Groves eat cheese so that will change "the picture" they have of what is going on in the body!

I will reduce this salt water I take and see how that is; I feel a little of this salt water helps the body in many ways, it's just finding out how little it  need's.

Nicola

Blending them should be fine. Some people here are eating muscle meat blended with organs.

Sully the muscle meat and organs are not blended; it is chopped or minzed!

Tyler mentioned bolting down meat for better digestion; animals don't blend meat and I don't think minzing or blending is paleo do you?

Nicola

I had been eating salt for a while and now I have not eaten any for 3 day's because I felt that salt was acting up in my system. I asked Dr. Groves about salt and then "the Bear" and this it what I know now...

This is my post to Dr. Groves and his answer:

Hi Mr. Groves

Sorry, I am asking again because I get different answers who ever I ask about salt!!!! I am told that salt is IN any meat:

Meat has the optimal potassium to sodium ratio, about 5:1. Plant
eaters have to add salt to their foods so that this ratio is hit.
When you look in the history of salt you will see that salt was
needed when human started eating big amounts of grains and plants.

Cat and dog owners don't give fresh kill; they get raw meat from the shops...The meat given in the zoo's is not fresh kill...

Even eggs have salt.

You gave your advice to Jimmy More about "zero carb"; well Charles is in grate form on "zero carb" - just meat and water - he stoped using salt because he had cramps in the night. Lex (raw paleo forum) had cramps and has added salt and his cramps have gone (they came again with high fat!!!).

His answer:

They are right that there is salt in meat. But is there enough if the animal has been bled? No other carnivore bleeds its prey before eating it.

I find if I don't add salt, I doc get cramps in the night! So perhaps, people differ in this respect. Or perhaps it depends what the rest of their diet is made up of.

Throughout recorded history, salt has always been highly prized. The word 'salary', meaning our weekly pay, is derived from the word 'salt; Roman soldiers were paid in salt. Admittedly, this was after the agricultural revolution, but it does demonstrate the high regard people had for salt.

No my cat didn't add salt, but she had no need to. If you taste blood, you will find that is salty. But we drain the blood from animals as soon as they are slaughtered. That is why it is necessary to add it.

You are right that Lutz doesn't eat salt. This is because he believes it causes cancer. He hasn 't lived low-carb, however, since he married his present wife, Helen, about 11 years ago. Unfortunately, at 95, Wolfgang is quite frail and has to rely on Helen for everything. She is a type-2 diabetic who won't do what Wolfie or I tell her.

regards

Barry
Author: Natural Health & Weight Loss
Co-producer: Your Perfect Weight: Be slim without dieting (DVD / video)
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk
http://www.diabetes-diet.org.uk
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.org.uk
http://www.theperfectweight.com

Meat eaters do not need to dose themselves with salt. NO carnivore
ever eats salt. The body can control sodium loss to the point that
the loss per day is measured in micrograms.

My instinct is not to answer your nonsensical questions, as it is
blatantly due entirely to food obsession.

One time and no more, ok? If you are not happy and comfortable
eating this way, give it up.

Food is not something you should obsess about and if you do, eating
will be a chore or a worry- give it up and return to comfort, it is
perhaps better to live a short but happy life than a long and unhappy
one.

Salt is in ALL tissues, the blood is not different in any way.
Animals bleed out when torn apart by a carnivore, very few of which
bother to kill their prey before eating them.

Cooking meat a little like searing, causes the juices to evaporate,
increasing the salt content.

Cramps at noght have NOTHING to do with sodium, the culprit is
magnesium, why somw people get low on this element is not something I
can answer, but it has happened to me from time to time. Eat some
magnesium, even a little epsom salts will do the job.
--

Cheers.


Bear

http://www.thebear.org

Found this on the AV-Skeptics Yahoo group (message from Bruce, the moderator):

"Your comments reinforce the general misconception
that diverticulosis is caused by a low fiber diet. This
theory arose because the underdeveloped world does
not get diverticulosis (or hemorrhoids or appendicitis
or colon cancer) and gastro-enterologist s couldn't think
of any other explanation.

"I believe I know the correct explanation: they use the
SQUATTING position for elimination. The SITTING
position is completely unnatural for this purpose and
puts a great strain on the sigmoid colon where the
diverticula most often develop.

"In the case of appendicitis, incomplete evacuation of
the cecum is responsible. It is physically impossible to
squeeze the cecum (or the sigmoid) empty in the sitting
position. Colon cancer is also a frequent result of this
incomplete elimination. The residue accumulates and
hardens, exposing the colon to toxic carcinogens.

"You can help people avoid a great many gastrointestinal
problems by recommending squatting. They can learn an
easy way to use this natural method for evacuation at my
website."
http://NaturesPlatf orm.com

I agree with this. You should never sit on a toilet. It's not
only un-sanitary, but it prevents proper elimination. You
should squat over the toilet. Primitive people didn't sit
on modern toilets. The observation that they didn't get
gastro-intestinal diseases does not prove that fiber is
the reason. We can find cultures eating a low-fiber or
zero-fiber diet without modern diseases. They lacked
modern toilets, and other technologies.

http://www.naturesplatform.com/health_be...#antiquity

Nicola

Well, I often get constipated. It'll feel like I have to poo, but nothing will happen.
And then the times when I do poo, it's hard to get out and the stools are quite small. It feels as if I should be passing much larger stools considering the amount I am eating.

However, the other day I ate a large piece of raw liver, and shortly thereafter I had diarrhea (a whole lot came out all at once  ) and I felt very cleansed. The next time I went poo after that, it was a normal movement. That was yesterday, and I haven't gone since then.

Perhaps I am not eating enough organs for the amount of muscle meat/fat that I am eating? Would that be something that could make a difference, or could it be coincidence?


(sorry for all the details, but you did encourage me to talk about "deep down problems" lol!)

I do not think that organs are the answer to how, when and what passes threw or even to "better" health; you should find out as much as you can by following what other "meat and water" paleos have to say (Lex has even had his word of wisdom...):

http://www.livinlowcarbdiscussion.com/showthread.php?tid=1514&page=2

Charles will start a new sight on "zero carb meat and water".

I don't know how stools can be hard on raw meat and you are not eating cheese...perhaps you need more fat? Perhaps some marrow with your muscle meat?

Don't worry poo is part of all humans (animals) and every body believes the next person understands things better; I bet many have problems/questions and don't own up to them.


Nicola

Here's a funny article about a Swiss Restaurateur who wants to provide his guests with dishes containing (pasteurised human milk:-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article4776425.ece

How funny that you know about this...it was only mentioned on one of our rubbishy news stations (TV). The cook looked unhealthy and was smoking during the interview. He thought it would be a way of making money but he got put down by the Swiss authorities (thank goodness!!!)

Nicola

Kilo and a half of raw grassfed liver and 1 raw lobster, yesterday. Today 8 figs, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow, only mineral-water, nothing else.

I am still wondering:

- do you eat that liver/lobster and then decide to fast (8 figs is not much but carbs again)?
- do you eat that liver/lobster because you know that you plan to fast?
- why do you do better if you fast?
- why do you eat that much in the first place - isn't it ideal for you to eat a portion of meat&fat every day?
- what if you didn't drive to work and had a hard job?
- does your metabolism slow down when you fast or do you experience any form of detox?

If I don't eat then I have to rest; I am trying this again today (the last times I did feel very low the next day and when I ate meat and fat it made me feel real sick and I had to go to bed).

I am asking all this to understand what drives people to do what they do - why do we do what we do ?

Nicola

Kilo and a half of raw grassfed liver and 1 raw lobster, yesterday. Today 8 figs, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow, only mineral-water, nothing else.

Tyler, how do you digest 1,5 kg liver in one meal; raw meat still gives me runny stools (jogging and rebounding must just push things threw, what others seem to hold back for days?) so I just can not understand if that amount of liver would not cause trouble!!!!

I have fasted for two days, that may not be a problem if you don't do any/much sport...but both times I felt sick when I started to eat again - sooo sick I had to go to bed!!! I could not do my normal sport and felt  but I am underweight any way so that just did not help. The funny thing is; I am not hungry and just eat meat and fat because I like to eat once a day...but am always trying to make it work with out runny stools - those eating cooked meat don't have runny stools because it takes longer to digest and has less water perhaps.

Nicola