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Messages - the6step

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I've recently started to consume more animal fat... which is incredibly hard, as my body interprets as "too cleansing" if that makes sense... but I could be wrong.

When eating raw animal fat, tons of it gets stuck to the roof of my mouth, and it's also very hard to chew.

What I did one day, was take the fat, put it in a glass jar, and put it out in the sun for a couple of hours.

Once I retrieved it, I noticed that it had been lightly cooked... and tasted delicious! My thought was that... if we ate meat and fat back in the day, that meat and fat most likely would have been exposed to the sun. There wasn't a "refrigerator" that existed back in the day.

Even this method of taking food out of the fridge 2-4 hours before it's time to eat doesn't work for me. If I wake up, I want to be able to eat. Also I'm in the position that, sometimes I get distracted, and then distracted to the point where I'm too hungry to wait, and then I have to order fast food or something. I need my food strategies to be flexible to my metropolitan life.

More than that: I can't really leave food out. The flies get to it and lay maggots (which might be fine in the country, but flies out here are disease laden).

With all of that being said: what I want to do, is heat up the fat that I eat in a toaster oven... for 30 seconds to a minute. My uneducated opinion is that this will allow my food to be more on demand for me... get around the fact that I'd like to not have to take my food out of the fridge 2-4 hours in advance, and it will adequately mimic how we eat fat in our ancestry (exposed to the heat of the sun).


Hot Topics / Re: I love salt
« on: March 31, 2019, 10:09:40 am »
This svrn guy saying salt is bad, never really elaborated on why the salty liquer inside oysters, is different from salt. They're both sodium, and both "salty". Also: "blood" is salty people. Guess what? We probably didn't "cleanly" drain the blood from our prey before eating the meat. There was blood mixed in, acting as a "salt topping" of sorts. I know I'm reviving an old thread but... I'm surprised no one touched on this.

I mixed raw egg yolks that had been sitting on my kitchen table (by recommendation from this forum... essentially high eggs?) with some natural raw honey (ambrosia, so pollen, royal jelly, propolis, and honey).

I felt nauseous that entire day, and from that day on till today, I have had diarrhea each day.

My assumption: my liver, which had been feeling bloated, with me not eating the right things... it definitely feels reduced in size. I definitely feel like this cleaned out my liver somehow, but maybe it did it too fast.

It's either that, or it's what other people are suggesting on forums other than this one, that maybe I picked up some bacteria of some sort.

In any case, I really would like to stop the diarrhea, as it hurts. Would eating more raw meat, or making sure to only lightly sear my meat solve this? Also, do you think it just cleaned me out too efficiently, or I actually got food poisoning?

I know RobinLove. That happens a lot. Just ignore it.

I will say this though, to inform your decision, as I wish this was communicated to me back when I was also interested in ZC.

Carbs aren't JUST relegated to fruit. In your story (and other people's view point), you talk about berries, mangoes, etc. That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the category of carbs.

Like you said, our ancestors probably only ate fruit once a season, mostly in fall, to build up a fat store for winter when hunting wasn't as doable.

So in my take, fruit isn't natural. That being said, that says absolutely nothing about vegetables. Cabbage, celery, carrots, cucumbers. These, like meats, have carbs but are extremely low amount of them. Good luck on the ZC though, however you decide to go about it. I'm pretty confident I finally found the fix I was looking for in keto + raw paleo... it's just how exactly to apply that.

I'm more or less used to the taste of raw. I'm not 100% raw and I still can't stand the taste of Kidney but it's been a couple of months and eating raw salmon, swordfish, heart are pretty pleasant and I can eat liver somewhat painlessly.

van your comment is what I was worried about but I wonder if people have a different take on it. Is there a cut off? I'm talking about fresh fish in the fridge and starting to smell a little off after less than a week. Is this from a purely research perspective, or has anyone tried eating smelly fish and noticed a difference in their health and how they feel?

Sometimes I buy meat (salmon in this case) and put it in my fridge (which isn't the coldest.)... and then I throw it out if it gets a little smelly. When it gets smelly, is it just turning into high meat? Can I eat it? It still looks pink and looks like it's fine.

Also... does the taste of this eventually become good? Can I eat it with hot sauce?

Journals / Re: the6step's journal
« on: July 25, 2017, 05:30:45 am »
I actually don't know. I heard that you're not supposed to eat excessive amounts of them from some of the veterans here. It feels like I'm cheating because I can eat like infinite fruit, and it's a ton of sugar, depending on what I eat.

My body actually stops me from eating meat depending on the amount... I just cease to want it anymore. Fruit... I can eat like 6 nectarines, then a mango, then some blueberries, and then make some guacamole with tomatoes... I don't know if it's because of the lack of nutrition compared to the meat? Or maybe my body just likes the sugar? I actually am not sure.

The banana ice cream thing is a good suggestion, and would let me continue to eat it and not have to worry about eating some agave + guar gum concoction. I'll try to do it. I have a Vitamix as well as the masticating juicer. Thanks for the suggestion.

Journals / Re: the6step's journal
« on: July 25, 2017, 01:08:11 am »
Wanted to give an update. It's almost been 2 months.

I had a full on relapse maybe a week ago. Had pizza, had a bunch of other cooked foods. If you are new to raw paleo, you might not want to read the rest of this.

So I did that, and it was glorious. It honestly tasted very good. That being said, the aftermath wasn't ideal. I got no energy from it, and it made me sluggish almost immediately. There was a feeling of irritation and mucus in the back of my throat. Compared to raw meats, the speed at which the food went down was at a snails pace comparatively. Also the flatulence and smell of stool afterwards was not so good.

It's sort of interesting. I had to actually think about this for a bit. Why can something that taste so good... be so bad for us? I'm still searching for that reason. However... I know regardless of what I fine, its not a valid reason. What if I decided to do cocaine, then kept doing it because it felt good? And that's when it hit me. When you eat something purely for taste and dopamine, but it isn't actually servicing you, and its actually damaging you, and even in the face of this you cant stop yourself from doing it, then that's when it becomes an addiction.

So maybe I was / am addicted to certain cooked foods, and I'm getting over that.


So as Ive been doing raw paleo, Ive slowly been trying to refine my diet. So when I started, I would go buy bacon, or pepperoni. But then I had to be honest with myself... when I ate either of those things (mostly the pepperoni) they did not make me feel good. Then I noticed they said "Fully cooked" in small f******g letters. So my perception of what is good and what is wrong is getting better, and I need to start listening to that now that I'm out of the "detox phase". Phasing out pepperoni and bacon was hard, as when I migrated over to paleo, some of these things allowed me to stay on but still get the taste I needed I guess.

The last thing I need to get rid of is ice cream. And I'm not talking about dairy... I found a way to eat ice cream without feeling bad about it: coconut ice cream. Except lately Ive had to be honest with myself, and realize it makes me feel like s***. So I had to write a long journal post to myself, explaining that I need to make the full transition now, and realize I have these addictions that don't really service me in anyway. Suck it up and deal with it.

Since making a big order at NorthStar Bison, my offal eating has improved significantly. I just ate almost half a liver without any lemon / salt / etc... and it still isn't delicious... but now its coming to the point where its neutral, and I don't have to make a face or shake my head to get it down. Bison heart with just a touch of salt I AM actually finding a bit enjoyable. Because Tyler said it so much, I finally had some swordfish... it was actually pretty good, again with some salt. It wouldn't be so bad if I could just eat that a bunch of days out of the week.

With this improvement, and me not eating the ice cream, I anticipate some improvements.

The last thing I need to do is eat less fruit. I eat tons of it now, to give me that "satisfied" feeling but maybe what I'm doing is eating in a way that avoids a detox like feeling? I dunno.

Also another one of my worries, is that eating a certain way like this is too expensive, especially for how much I'd LIKE to eat. Like... if I have 1 pound of organ meat a day, and then like 1 or 2 pieces of fruit, what the hell do I eat for the rest of the day? Eggs obviously (which are a pain to extract the egg white). I'm tenacious about eating vegetables because Ive been giving that vibe by this forum. Periodically I buy asparagus since going on this diet, but Ive never eaten them. Suffice to say, if I have more food to eat, then I can maybe cut down on the fruits, and it will be less difficult to cut the ice cream and keep it cut.

I have some other thoughts but Ill save it for a subsequent post.


I've been buying from them for years (like 6-7 at this point, I probably put a kid through college). I live upstate so make a trip out to the farm in Hudson but they have stalls in Union Square and the Museum of Natural History on the weekends (scroll to the bottom of the page). I'm not sure who mans the stalls but if it's Dan or Keith tell them you're Raw Paleo and Dan sent you. They'll do you solid.

It's the absolute best frozen grass-fed/finished meats I've found for sale. It's pricey now ($12 a pound for many of the muscle meats) but they have fantastic fat and regularly stock a good selection of organs.

I can't speak to fresh versus frozen cattle but it's a marked difference in wild game or fish so I assume it's the same in cattle. That said I have thrived on quality frozen ground and suet fat as a base for my diet. To each their own.

Solid djr_81. I'm literally 15 min away from Union Square... I'm going to check it out tomorrow! Thanks.

General Discussion / Re: Variety?
« on: June 19, 2017, 12:45:57 am »
I disagree with you van for the same reasons as surfsteve. It was said that AV's recipes were mainly to get people used to the taste of eating raw meats. I think in general, people that have fully embraced eating raw palaeo and offal will generally gravitate to minimalism naturally (e.g. eating everything in it's natural state).

However we have to recognize that we don't need to speak to those people... we need to speak for the people whose taste betrays them in the first place. When is the beginners taste going to gravitate them towards nutrient dense foods they've never liked the taste of?

I have never, ever liked liver, even in a cooked capacity. After maybe what...2 months on raw palaeo, I'm finally sitting here eating raw liver without any seasoning whatsoever. Why? because I've gotten accustomed to liking the taste, but that only happened when I put tons of seasonings on it.... and I don't think that would have happened easily otherwise as my brain would have constantly been in the "I hate the taste of this" frame of mind had I not used those. But here I am, gravitating towards minimalism naturally.

I think we just have to understand that primary objective number 1 is getting raw foods in people's bodies, and start getting them accustomed to the taste. Minimalism and mono eating will come naturally after that, as a result of comfort and laziness, as those are a humans default modus operandi. With that in mind, variety is extremely important if that is the olive branch you need to be eating the right types of things. The idea of using the natural taste of things as a gauge for whether you should be eating it is smart but that's not the most important hurdle for beginners IMO... it's getting over the taste... so time seems it'd be better spent doing that.

Journals / Re: the6step's journal
« on: June 18, 2017, 11:49:06 pm »
For the juicer, I have the Omega NC900HDC 6th Generation. It didn't set me too much back but... I have enough money to essentially get whatever I need for health reasons.

So... I actually don't dislike the taste of liver too much anymore. That was FAST. I did the whole egg yolk + spices seasoning. I came home today from a trip and was feeling pretty exhausted and I think my body was like... "man the6step we really could use some of that liver sustenance" so I broke out the liver. That actually blows my mind.

I think the biggest thing that allowed me to do it, is almost being insane with the sauces & seasonings I put on stuff. Putting lemon in my raw eggs (whole or just yolk) got me used to enjoying the taste of it. Same with beef and ground beef... now I could easily eat those alone. So I just applied that logic to liver which I've always hated... so now after eating it and seasoning it enough that my tastebuds enjoy it, after my body saw how much sustenance the liver provided it was like "bro... that liver stuff is pretty good... gets us some more of that".

I will say this.

In the past week... my mental faculties have exploded. I'm not really a slouch mentally... but it can't be a coincidence the past couple of weeks my ability to work through problems, speak effectively and congruently have really exceeded my expectations. I'm a natural cynic so when I heard that on some threads & posts, I didn't really acknowledge it but... its true.

Next steps:

* I've begun to realize that my belly pouch most likely isn't the cause of diet, but rather my inclination to slouch, which essentially makes the organs of the belly start to pop out (and I've found information online that has echoed that). I need to pursue somatics which has been the only consistent thing to make it feel better.
* I'm going to make an order for NorthStart frozen liver and other organs. Can't wait to get that... mouth is watering.
* Now that liver is fairly easy, heart & kidney are next.
* I want to start experimenting with high meat. The only hard thing is that I live in an apartment, and I really do not want my apartment stinking because of it. That being said, I've had a lot of meat I've threw into the refrigerator that was inside plastic and it just went bad inside there (and I'm not going to eat it having fermented inside plastic)... so I might as well be trying high meat. I just have to be creative about airing it? We'll see.
* Veggie juice. You know it's interesting... I've seen Tyler say veggie juice isn't good... but then I'll see people advocate cabbage juice for ulcers and such. I feel like for some things in life, something can feel great at first but then not be so good in the long run (Tyler has mentioned this phenomenon with milk... feels great now but in the long run is bad). I have to say... my body seems like it likes the veggie juice... that being said, it could potentially slow down my nutrient absorption but as I pretty much explained, it's really hard to call that after a day or 2 of veggie juice. I'm just worried that I don't notice the bad (or good) affects it starts to have on me. But... oh well I have no choice but to figure it out.

Journals / Re: the6step's journal
« on: June 16, 2017, 03:12:11 pm »
Oh yeah my digestive system isn't all there yet. I'm 1000% sure it's the reason for my fatigue issues.

I'll rattle off some new thoughts, some of them answer your comments:

* Raw beef at least is now normal to me. Freaking awesome! I'm very happy. It's the first non ground raw meat that I'm comfortable picking up, grabbing with my hands, and ripping into it.

* I'm curious if my teeth will adapt from eating raw meat... it isn't easy now. The easiest thing is to slice the meat in swallowable chunks, and I chew it maybe 2 times before swallowing. I notice if I'm not slicing it, then I have to try to puncture the meat with my canines and pull the meat. So THIS is why we have those.

* My seasoning game is on point now... I'm finally starting to realize I can eat tasty without all the bullshit. I cracked 3 egg yolks, dipped some beef chunks into it, then put salt, black pepper, little bit of chili powder and cayenne pepper on it... amazing.

* I actually have a bunch of raw liver / kidney I bought from my farmer. All grass fed, well treated animals (I've been to the farm and the pastures... so I'm comfortable with how the operation runs). A bunch of it is in my freezer. The taste still isn't easy to deal with for either. For seasoned beef / ground beef it's easy.... I can eat it while cleaning, reading, etc. When I'm eating liver / kidney, it's an ordeal and I usually have to stop everything I'm doing. I bought some raw honey mustard and that's been helping me get it down.

* I buy these packages of beef liver, and the bag comes with a bunch of pieces of it. The main problem I'm having is an interpretation one... I was told I need to consume thawed meat immediately... I don't know how much liver I'm supposed to consume in one sitting (and / or if I can do that) but what is happening is I thaw the liver, eat a portion of it, put the rest back in the fridge (because it's bad to freeze / thaw / freeze something) and then I get in my head because I'm like "ok but that liver in the fridge is thawed... so not only is it nasty, but a lot of the nutrition is gone in that one... so no use in eating it". I also put the liver in mason jars right now.

* I tried blending the liver for liver pate... absolutely disgusting. It was too liquidy and the taste was just too pungent. The good thing about eating the liver straight up, is if you cut it into small pieces, you just swallow it and then you don't taste it as much.

* In terms of the past couple of years, I've developed a belly pouch... that also inflates. My hunch is that when this belly pouch is gone, I'll be 75-90% healed.

* I'm doing a lot of raw eggs lately... 3 huge things I notice. First is testosterone. I've been noticing that I'm looking at girls more lately, and hold eye contact with them longer, and being noticed a lot more (I live in a major city). The 2nd thing, my energy has skyrocketed on the days where I consumed a good amount of red meat the day before, and then egg yolks in the morning. The third thing, is the egg yolks ARE still causing a lot of strain on my body. Like sometimes when I do 6 raw egg yolks in the morning, I get into work, and for like the first 2 hours there's a general sense of un-wellness, nausea... and then 85% of it goes away, becoming 15% and sort of riding the wave from 5% to 30% of the pain. I'm essentially chalking this up to detox and I may even up the dosage of raw eggs. I do feel like my liver is enlarged and that can either be because I'm anemic (again just taking guesses) or that my liver is clogged up. I know raw egg yolk breaks up cirrhotic liver, so I'm going to keep doing that.

* Since I started palaeo, I've avoided vegetables and supplements. I've avoided vegetables because this dude on this forum, goodsamaritan, has this site in his signature that said that vegetables should be avoided in the pursuit of fruits. I asked him on one of his posts but he didn't respond, and I hadn't read enough of the site to get a gauge on it. I'm now seeing that certain vegetables are commonly praised and rarely derided in raw palaeo circles.... cabbage, celery, asparagus. I luckily already had and kept a twin gear masticating juicer, so now I'm juicing cabbage... which has a high nutrient content and is said to resolve ulcers. I have some of the common symptoms of ulcers (sans bleeding) and maybe why I have the pouch... so I'm trying it, and there's no harm done if it doesn't work because of the nutrition content of the cabbage. I'm going to start to try to have at least a cup a day of fresh green juice... the only difference between now and what I would do before, is I won't try to make quarts of green juice and drink it all in one sitting, or juice shit like kale or fruit. Luckily because I did the whole vegetarian nasty supplement / juice, I can drink most of the more evil concoctions without any apple offsetting the taste, so I don't need to do any of this.

* The supplements are going to come back. I think this forum in particular has a very sort of... specific definition when they talk about supplements. What I'm referring to (which seems to be fairly accepted amongst RVAF'ers) is the idea of consuming trace minerals and some of the better supplements. Milk Thistle, boron, etc.

* I was a curezone boy before this so I've had Apple cider vinegar in the cabinet for years. I stopped taking it when I went raw because ACV will damage your teeth if you don't brush it off immediately (which I usually won't) and I have bad teeth. Also, I heard ACV can irritate the digestion system just based off of it's strength (which if you've taken ACV you know). I took ACV for a long time and my digestion only got worse. Now of course... that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the ACV but... my idea was that I'd start raw, start eating just a small subset of raw foods, and then slowly bring back old stuff into the picture and really study it again and pay attention to what my body is saying about it.

The main thing is definitely this: figuring out how much liver / kidney I should be eating, coming up with a good thawing / storing strategy (figure out the specifics of this "eat it right after you thaw it" line of thinking), figure out a good seasoning strategy (forget about this liver pate stuff), and then just continue to eat it to attempt to get accustomed to the taste.

Journals / Re: the6step's journal
« on: June 06, 2017, 05:25:21 am »
For the last month I've mostly been eating eggs, fruit, and salmon. I still haven't started vegetables back yet.

The last week or so, I've been eating straight up raw sirloin steak and pork. Every time I eat it, I become incredibly tired, but I feel my body getting warmer. I thought I'd never get used to it... it's actually quite a treat when I season it right, soak it in some fresh lemon juice and add the proper amount of salt.

Hopefully I can soon start getting used to the taste of organ meats, so it can correct my health quicker. One thing I have my eye on is this raw liver pate I keep seeing. I'll have to try that for sure.

I don't know what a dexter is, but if you have a specific suggestion for NYC let me know... metropolitan areas aren't specifically known for their love of grass fed organs.

I have a guy in Pennsylvania I used to order Raw Milk from. He sells some organs but not all of them, and definitely not Bison, definitely all frozen and not the cheapest. I know a place about 30 minutes from me that receives like 1 or 2 cows every week. I don't know how many livers a cow has but it doesn't seem practical to me to depend on that.

I essentially need high quality grass fed organ meats that can be delivered to NYC... that's alright not easy. So I'm going to stick with this for now. My original question still stands though.

I'm trying to buy some organ meats. I found this really excellent deal on NorthStarBison, but they only offer it as frozen:


That calculates to around $12 per pound of organs, and that's WITH shipping. That's insane. My thing is this.... you hear on this forum a lot that fresh is better than frozen. But then some people say that eating frozen isn't that bad. I can order all these items individually (to get them fresh) but most likely they'll be a lot more expensive. Thoughts?

Journals / Re: the6step's journal
« on: June 01, 2017, 09:39:29 am »
Ok so fast forward a couple of weeks. I know a lot more now.

* Raw eggs in their entirety are apparently not good unless they are fertilized eggs? They had mostly went through my body undigested. We'll have to see how my body does on just plain egg yolks?
* I did the egg yolk liver flush combined with some water & coffee enemas. I had a bunch of malic acid and lemons and I was scared as hell. It actually went pretty well... a bunch of stones, pebbles, chaff came out of me and I've actually gained a little bit of energy.
* I've backed off the liver and heart... it was way too soon. I'm still getting used to raw salmon, raw pork, raw uncured unsmoked bacon... I realized it doesn't really make any sense to get into the organs right now. Back when I did eat meat, I didn't eat any organs and probably would have thought they were nasty. Makes much more sense to get used to eating the raw versions of meat I've already eaten and enjoyed rather than to introduce variables.
* Ground beef is disgusting. Maybe it's the plastic, the oxidization... maybe my body is rebelling against the processed nature of the meat?

I'm now doing much better overall. I've introduced more fruits into the equation, I'm eating high quality guacamole every week (which is nice), I'm now eating salmon, I'm eating the raw honey + lemons I bought whenever I get a sweet tooth or my body calls out for carbs, I'm eating the eggs (but going to start eating the yolks) and overall, I'm just buckling down. The goal for this week is to buy more "realistic" raw meats. I bought some pork chops that were delicious but then I started searching here and people were talking about brain eating parasites that come with pork so I'm not going to do that for a while unless I get some reassurance. I mistakenly tried to eat some cod with the bones in it... I thought "well I'm eating paleo now so I eat the bones too" but then I got one lodged in my throat and then realized I could need surgery if any of those bones puncture anything inside me so stopped doing that. But yeah right now, just searching for good quality meat that I can put some seasoning & lemon juice on and actually enjoy.

Journals / Re: the6step's journal
« on: June 01, 2017, 09:24:27 am »
It sounds to me like you are doing it wrong. I would listen to my body more and not overeat any single food.

I just switched over to this diet, so I have to get acquainted AND comfortable with my options. The fruit is easy, however I've been trying to stay away from overly glycemic fruits (bananas, apples) and do more of watermelon & berries (which I believe is the recommended way).

The eggs were an easy way to choke down my first raw foods.

Have you been using salt?  You probably need more sodium, every fruit u are using is high liquid and potassium.  Try some sea salt on the melon and drink spring water.  Also try dulse for minerals and iodine to help detox.  Some lettuce and herb greens and butter for magnesium and chlorophyll for detox too. Eat sulphuric spice and bitter.

Before I came here, I had protocols for salt, potassium, iodine, magnesium, chlorella (chlorophyll), and bitters. You'd be surprised how well rounded my game was.

That being said, when I first started trying raw foods, I was told to not do any "supplements". I don't know if trace minerals fall into the "supplement" category so I've abstained from doing them partially until I understand if people on raw foods actually do worse on these, and partially so my body hopefully can start functioning optimally with raw foods, and then I add the supplements and actually discern the feeling they have on my body. That being said, I have searched this forum for their thoughts on stuff like that but mentions of it were sparse, so I'm abiding to my plan above.

Journals / Re: the6step's journal
« on: May 16, 2017, 02:14:29 am »
alright that was a bad mental spot for me, there must have been a lot of toxins in my system and my liver feels tender and more free... I couldn't stand up for like an hour there. Jeez this raw paleo stuff doesn't play around.


This site is explaining the combo's that are bad... and it looks like I was doing all of the bad combos (8-12 eggs a day w/ liver or heart, tons of coconut oil and fruit). I honestly have been through a lot of detox phases but that was "dark".

I'm going to see this through to the end (unfortunately... lol). Those concerns I pointed out are still concerns but I mean I'll take crazy good health and figure out the rest later.

For now, going to order some guacamole, watermelons, strawberries and coconut and gorge on those. That site says to eat cooked food to slow down the detox but maybe there's a better more even keeled way to go about this.

Journals / the6step's journal
« on: May 16, 2017, 12:46:58 am »
So I've been at it for about 2 weeks or so. I did immediately cut out all dairy, cooked foods, vegetables. I've only been eating fruit, raw eggs. I ate ground beef 2 times the first week, and now this week I've been struggling trying to choke down some lamb liver & heart, cutting it into small enough pieces to swallow and putting it right in. I've also been doing coconut manna.

I feel seriously sick. Like every time I get up, I'm seriously dizzy, and it's hard to tell whether my body isn't getting what it needs, if I'm putting something bad in it that it doesn't like, or that I'm detoxing. I'm gorging on some strawberries right now as I didn't have much fruit over the weekend, and I've been struggling on the raw meat end... the taste is really hard to deal with.

I skipped this morning because my body is reacting crazily but I've been trying to do 6 eggs in the morning and 6 at night. I also still believe my liver is acting up... so I'm going to do some malic acid this week in preparation for my egg yolk liver flush.

I am starting to have a lot of self doubts... I'm still young and I want to date and now that I don't drink alcohol, don't eat bread, don't eat anything cooked, I have no idea how I'm going to meet new friends, or meet new girls for that matter... and I'm still unsure of the diet, and I'm unsure of the health of the people that are on the diet.

So yeah that's where I am right now. My body is telling me if I try to put any more raw protein in it right now that I'm going to have serious problems (I'm at work and feel like throwing up) so I'm going to stick with fruits maybe for a day or 2 and see what happens.

Suggestion Box / Re: New forum software?
« on: May 12, 2017, 12:10:35 pm »
Plushforums is super super nice but most likely way over your budget with how many members are online at any given moment (it's $120 per month for 500 members on at the same time, and only goes up from there).

hxxp:// is super super nice though, is free, extensible, themeable and most importantly modern.

Suggestion Box / This site deserves better focus (and stickies)
« on: May 12, 2017, 11:14:29 am »

Let me first just say that this is radical stuff. Thank you for having a place for people to talk about it, and thanks for the continued effort to educate people about what you believe is a superior way to live. I’m a couple of days in… I can’t wait to say that I’m apart of the people that finally found their way health wise. That being said, I’m going to jump straight into the deep end here.

What I want to do first is take a sticky from 2008 from Tyler and spruce it up a bit. No offense to Tyler of course, it is from 2008 and he probably spends way more time contributing to this site than I ever will. Read this first and compare it to the link.

Subject: Dairy
"No matter if it's (pasteurized or raw) milk (even A2), cheese, yogurt or kefir, dairy is bad for most of us. Dairy is linked to all sorts of diseases and conditions including:

* heart disease [1]
* osteoporosis [2]
* dementia [3]
* depression [4]
* autism [5]
* strokes [6]
* multiple sclerosis [7]
* rheumatoid arthritis [8]

and more [9]. Calcium[10], hormones[11], lactose[12], casein[13], and sugar[14] are the most likely culprits and are unhealthy in even low quantities for most people. Fermenting it doesn't change that equation either! (yogurt, kefir, etc) A healthy raw paleo diet of JUST eggs & organ meats replaces ALL needs for dairy (protein, magnesium, b12, k2, biotin, folate, enzymes & probiotics) and has it’s own nutrient profile outside of that!. In the face of this information, why continue to do dairy?

We have some theories, but we’ll drop one here: casein, found in all dairy, acts as a stimulant and can trigger the same receptors that cause addiction[15].

As always, experiment and find out what works for you. Some of our members do well on dairy, but a vast majority don’t. We'd wager that a big portion that do well on it either will experience symptoms later down the line, or don't realize they experience them already, and we have a lot of anecdotal (and empirical) evidence to back that up. In the face of the dangers of dairy and an alternative diet that provides superior nutritional value, there's no reason to participate in dairy other than taste (similar argument for junk food).

Dairy has only been consumed for the past 9,000 years by humans. There is absolutely no reason to believe that we've had time to evolutionarily adapt to it. Don't let your addiction to milk dictate your health.


[15] hxxp://

[Pretend all the rest of the sources are here)


This is by no means perfect but I’m hoping to illustrate my point with this.

Ok so now that I'm done with that, here's my suggestion. This forum needs to focus on it's core. I come from the curezone world and I've really been spoiled by carefully put together resources covering specific topics very rigorously and thoroughly while still maintaining some user friendliness. I've been on this site for a little more than a week, and I've begun to get a little frustrated at how difficult it is to get the full picture of a specific topic (dairy, vegetables, etc) without having to search multiple other threads for relevant information not summed up in one spot , or dealing with the actual stickies which seem to be provided in a less graspable way… for people who may not be great on understanding the science, the language, or the verboseness of the explanation usually meant for the more battle hardened people like myself. That being said even I'm a little fatigued from my first week here, trying to build a picture.

Now, I know what you're going to say:

"oh the6step... you see, a lot of the information here isn't set in stone. It's up to the reader to educate themselves and find out what's true for them, as we're all different, in different environments with different genetics and predispositions".

And you'd be right but wrong at the same time. I do a lot of research in my professional life and in my free time such as this. For a person like me, it's much, MUCH faster to form my own opinion from people on both sides of the argument rather than people who attempt to remain bipartisan whilst having a definite opinion, assuming both parties have shown to be open minded, even keeled and non dogmatists.

After much reading of the sticky, a bunch of threads, some of the main contributors, some of my own research, and a lot of anecdotal opinions from people, the consensus was that dairy overall wasn't ideal for most people, and being asymptomatic doesn't mean anything because kids eat absolute shit for years in todays society and get by. Also, everything is relative. There’s a guy I think that can control his body temperature, but we still tell people to wear certain clothing in certain weather, because generalizations are important.

So in my above rewrite, I made sure to lay out the general consensus, still leaving a bit of leeway for interpretation, experimentation and uncertainty. I also moved all sources to the bottom (just as wikipedia or a scientific paper would do... ), and made the writing more human and relatable, and to the point (and noticed how the subject is just one word now). Also I stripped things out like "lactose intolerence" because it's sending the wrong message. A common comeback of lactose intolerance is "oh well buy lactase drops to eat the lactose" which is true, and "oh well make kefir, it eats all the lactose" which is somewhat true, but it doesn't invalidate the major issues so don't give the reader the idea of wiggle room when there isn't any.

Looking around, most of the answers to most of the questions being asked in posts are either in some random thread or in someone's head and to me I really don't see why there isn't a bigger effort in this regard now that I've stumbled onto this place. I think this place is used for people to find answers to their problems, but also help other people and those efforts make people want to reciprocate and contribute back. In that light, there's no real reason in my mind someone can't come here and get a top down view of the fundamentals:

* There should be a sticky covering just foods and isolating them into categories of certainty. Bone Marrow / Liver / Eggs / Coconut Butter (low heat) / low glycemic fruit as championed sources and staples of the raw paleo diet, then you have veggie juice / high glycemic fruits in the uncertain category, and then pasteurized milk, GMO, as avoid (I don't even know all of them and what category they fall into, don't yell at me. This is just from a weeks research. I'm just trying to get your creative juices flowing). Literally just cover every food, note all the high level nuances, etc.

* There should be a sticky regarding storage and temperature. Refrigeration, non refrigeration. Leave a comment about "high meat" with a short explanation, linking to a sticky just about high meat as to not clutter this sticky. Cover raw foods in plastics / cans, frozen meats, de-thawing procedure, etc. For instance I’ll see things like “nothing in a can” but then coconut butter in a can is fine. Iron all of that out in one sticky.

* There should be a sticky regarding how to consume (chewing / swallowing, time, combining). For instance I know from my research this week that I should not food combine for the most part (adding coconut butter is allowed but is still debated somewhat by some of the top contributors). That means eating watermelon alone, and waiting around 3 hours (or an empty stomach) before eating something else. I know that for the raw diet, it's ideal to chew food less. I also know that it's ideal to have fruit around noon and protein at the beginning of the day. As a newbie I had to search for all of this information. Granted not everyone agrees on everything but I found the above was a general consensus with some few derivates and deviations.

* There should be a sticky JUST on vegetables. I still have no idea what the consensus is on vegetables... I didn't see any nail in the coffin. Again I'm not trying to debate that here, I'm jut saying someone new to this board shouldn't have to go searching post after post to get a decent picture. For instance sure we have a ZC board and people who believe that can go there but it's very obvious that ZC didn't work out long term for most people. Again, just spell that out, leave it up to interpretation and move on, even with vegetables.

* For all these stickies, the goal should be thorough and rigorous but simple and to the point, with citations and anecdotal evidence (both are important)

* There should be an effort to remove all non relevant stickies. There's some sticky about milk not being palaeo but why does a beginner care about that? The site is raw paleo but the point is health. It's much easier to go straight for the throat and tell the person that their health is the reason they shouldn't drink it, instead of trying to argue classification. It's attacking the wrong angle and you're going to end up having people read that and going to milk because a compelling argument wasn't made, and the information that IS there isn't digestable or relatable at all. There are stickies about making some book, the last post on it being 5 years old. We have a saying in User Experience... if everything is important, nothing is important. The things being stickied should be of absolute importance (either protocol (rules) or news happenings if it's that type of place). My favorite are the monstrous stickies that contain information that will be used again and again as education for a specific topic or branch of concern.

* Simplicity: shorter "Subjects" where relevant.

* Let people comment on the stickies to make suggestions (content, wording, citations, removing certain things), then every couple of months, un-sticky the last thread, create a new one with the alterations of your choosing, and then sticky that one. The only stickies that should be locked are non negotiables like rules and such.

All these things together would greatly help new people, entice new people to the board, cut down on repeating questions, and give people more room to have interesting conversations about things that aren't as set in stone. The goal would be to get the essentials and foundation that most of the veterans on the board understand implicitly and distill, organize and formulate them so that everyone can get on board with raw paleo.

General Discussion / Re: New drive to ban US raw milk
« on: May 11, 2017, 08:58:19 pm »
In that same article they talk about raw meat and eggs being the common sources of salmonella, e coli & campylobacter poisoning. If we'd ignore those claims then we shouldn't just champion their claims of raw milk either (I'm anti dairy at the moment but still). Daily Mail has a known track record of sensationalism, slander & lying.

I bought some grass fed ground beef, sirloin steak & chuck steak. They were all in the refrigerated section at my local organic shop.

I left the meats out for a little bit over 24 hours, just wanting to see what happens. It's a bit smelly, so I'm a little bit confused as to what to do.

Is the smell because it's bad meat, and or because I left it in the plastic? Or is it normal for it to get smelly after 24 hours.

I don't follow. Your cure manual thing says that vegetables are bad?

I started eating raw just yesterday. 4 raw eggs, 1 package of raw grass fed ground beef. I'm still alive.

So I'm waiting for a farm order so I don't have to go to the grocery store, but in the meantime (since it seems like it's better to eat raw eggs from grocery store rather than cooked food) I have some non-gmo, organic, "sunlit barnes and porches" eggs. One of the packages I have has been out for more than 24 hours, and I'm wondering how long these eggs can last non refrigerated.

The follow up question is the same question but for pasture eggs. I live in NYC so it might be difficult for me to get eggs "in the membrane and poop" as people were putting it on this other thread I was reading, so just assume they look like regular store bought eggs.

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