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Messages - michaelwh

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It's unlikely that you will keep gaining endlessly. You will probably reach a certain equilibrium that your body is happy with, and stay there. But that equilibrium may not be the "6-pack abs" that you see on the cover of Men's Fitness.

I've done experiments with over-eating, under-eating, over-exercising, and under-exercising, and I've come to the conclusion that it's very hard to force your body to carry less or more weight than it wants to.

As an aside, I think that having some extra fat is probably a good thing. When travelling, good-quality food is often hard to come by, so it's useful to be able to eat lightly or fast for an extended period of time.

Another thought -- maybe your appetite is abnormally high because you're missing some micronutrients. You could try adding more nutrient-dense foods such as shellfish, organs, CLO/BO, wild berries, and wild herbs into your diet. (If you're strict ZC, then disregard the last 2 on that list).

Here is another amusing April fools joke on Stephan's whole health source:

To those of you who think this is serious, take a look at some other news stories by this fine media outlet:,1463/,19263/

And also take a look at your calendar.

Display Your Culinary Creations / Re: How to Open Live Oysters
« on: March 14, 2011, 11:21:55 pm »
Do you have to disinfect the oysters to eat them raw?

Take a look at wild animals in nature. Do they disinfect anything before they eat it?

I've eaten raw oysters that have been dead for ~1 week. Full of bacteria. Smell is quite strong, but they're still nutritious.

Hot Topics / Re: I fucking love bacon!!!!!!!!!!!! xD
« on: March 14, 2011, 02:08:55 am »
 -v -v -v -v -v -v -v

Am I the only one who thinks that these videos are absolutely disgusting? Meat is for nourishment, not for gluttony or entertainment. This chicken-in-a-duck-in-a-turkey-in-a-pig-in-a-smoker is a perversion, it makes me want to vomit.

 -v -v -v -v -v -v -v

Journals / Re: my so called journal
« on: March 05, 2011, 01:31:00 pm »
Just met with what will probably be my faculty adviser. He just decided last week he wants to write a grant proposal to test this diet called "nutritarian" vs. the traditional care for very sick cardiac patients at UMDNJ.

My goal as I see it now is to do a good job with that and slowly introduce to him paleolithic and maybe raw diet ideas so that I can steer his next project, or my thesis project, towards something closer to what I believe in. Any ideas?

In particular he seems convinced studies like this haven't really been done yet, clinical at least, there have been statistical studies done on populations like the China thing.

If you guys could help me find old studies or anything that I could learn about to help steer this lab towards my ideas that would be much appreciated.

Here are some good recent studies.

In this one, pigs fed conventional grain-based feed were compared to pigs fed a paleo diet (fruits, vegetables, beef, fish meal). Nothing was explicitly stated about cooking, so everything was probably fed raw, except for the fish meal, which is obviously processed.

That group also did a paleo diet study with humans:

2. Calcium and Vitamin D deficiency.  The bones won't form correctly without these.  Magnesium and phosphorus also play a very small role here.

Why do you say that phosphorus plays a very small role? Teeth and bones contain large amounts of both calcium and phosphorus.

It's been a while since I read Weston Price's book, but if I recall correctly, he placed an equally important emphasis on both calcium and phosphorus.

General Discussion / Re: egg whites ffs
« on: February 23, 2011, 08:47:44 pm »
And what about biotion deficiency?
Tyler once showed a study where it says you can get biotion deficiency only if you eat more than 24 raw whole eggs per day.
In that study, did they actually feed people raw eggs, and find negative symptoms if more than 24 were consumed in a day? I doubt it. It's probably just a speculative statement based on the quantities of biotin and avidin in an egg, and the "daily requirement" for biotin in humans.

    I started with only yolks, as the smell of whites was just too very repulsive to me.  When it stopped smelling bad to me; when eating eggs I eat the whole. 
My experience was similar. I started with yolks only (Wai diet), but now I eat whole eggs. I make holes in the 2 ends of the egg, and suck it out.

When I have a bad cough/cold/flu, or when I have no appetite for solid food, I eat lots of eggs. I've eaten as many as ~20 per day. But on a regular basis, I usually eat about 6 a day.

It would be an interesting experiment to give an egg to a dog or cat (either whole or cracked in a bowl), and see if they eat the whole thing or just the yolk.

General Discussion / Re: Raw Meat Eating Family On Farm
« on: February 21, 2011, 09:37:14 pm »
I was quite stunned to realise that a nation I percived as heavy drinkers, the Italians, were in fact not. Public intoxication seemed to be frowned upon openly. Intoxicated youth were told by strangers to fuck off home and sleep it off. Yet they drink wine almost every day. I imagine that France is not completely unlike this.

Germany is like this as well.

Also, here's an older thread about some of these issues:

I don't think we have enough information to decide whether this diet was forced on the kids, or whether they were given a choice. Also, I remember reading somewhere that their son had mild autism symptoms, and they switched to the PD to try to help him.

Hot Topics / Re: New Daniel Vitalis interview about raw food, evolution..
« on: February 20, 2011, 08:33:25 am »
He's definitely the most inspiring "Diet Guru" I know of right now.  Maybe he'll write the first Raw Omnivore book?

There are several raw omnivore books out there already: Aajonus Vonderplanitz, Guy-Claude Burger, and Thijs Klompmaker aka "Wai Genriiu".

Hot Topics / Re: Cooking and Evolution
« on: February 20, 2011, 08:28:12 am »
Evolution and belief in God are not necessarily incompatible. Francis Collins describes this in his book "The Language of God". Here's a lecture where he presents the key ideas:

Off Topic / Re: Air Purifiers?
« on: February 19, 2011, 11:16:58 am »
Certain plants are excellent air cleaners. NASA did a study to determine which particular species of plants are best for removing certain toxins from the air:

Some of these are exotic, but others are quite common and easily found. I bought a Gerbera Daisy about a month ago. But it doesn't like the cold temperature in my apartment. I usually keep plenty of windows open, even if it's -20 deg C outside. That's another way to get better-quality air.

Actually, it may not be obvious whether it's better to open all the windows, or close the windows and get lots of plants. It probably depends on the quality of air in your neighbourhood.

I think that before you invest in an air purifier, you should first remove all sources of toxins that are in your home, to the extent that is practically possible. To learn what is toxic, take a look at: (I can't access this web site right now. Try google cache. It's for Randall Fitzgerald's book "Hundred Year Lie")

Warning: reading the above will probably make you depressed. You will learn that toxins are EVERYWHERE in your home. Clothes, coats, carpets, furniture, personal care products, computer equipment, plywood, paint, etc, etc. If you try to change everything at once, you will go crazy. Take it one step at a time. Getting some plants is a good first step.

I used to think that it was unnecessary to worry about toxins in everyday items, until I read the report on a few months ago. Now I'm gradually eliminating toxins from my home. It's a long process. I recently bought a mask from (Recommended by Aajonus). I use it when bicycling in street traffic. Eventually, I'll research air purifiers, but it's quite far down on my to-do list.

Primal Diet / Re: egg whites for vision
« on: February 19, 2011, 10:36:25 am »
anyway...I usually trust michaelwh's info, but for me at least I can not do this without washing with filtered water afterward. I tried just leaving it in a number of times and wiping my face and I started to harden up like a vampire at dawn. Then again I just used a bottle top and got egg white everywhere. If you ever used the product 'new skin' back in the day..thats sorta what it looked like. :)

Yes, if you get egg white on your face and it dries, then your skin will harden like that. It has happened to me too. Some people do it deliberately (egg white face mask, google it). If necessary, I use water to get the egg white off my face. But I don't put the water in my eyes. I've also tried using an eyedropper. It's more controlled than eye cups. But you need to use egg whites that are very runny. Thick gooey egg whites don't work well with an eyedropper.

Primal Diet / Re: Vonderplanitz formal education???
« on: February 19, 2011, 10:20:54 am »
Can you give us and example michael of comments Aajonus has made? I've had very little direct experience with Aajonus' work, I have only read and own TRFLWD. And I hopped on PD before I even read that, when I read about Aajonus' position the second time everything clicked and I went it alone after that except for more searching around the web. So, I'm just curious about a guy that helped change my life.

Here's one example that comes to my mind:

In one of his newsletters, he wrote an article about the effect of electromagnetic fields on health. He stated that electromagnetic fields emit waves of neutrons and protons. No matter how you try to interpret that, it is false, and it makes no sense. At the fundamental level, electromagnetic fields are made up of photons. They can behave as particles or as waves, depending on the type of observation/experiment being performed.

Regarding the discussion about education and academia:

While there are certainly some bad professors/lecturers out there, there are also plenty of very good ones. In my 1st year of undergrad, a very good prof inspired me and changed my life. I'm currently finishing up graduate school, and I've had my share of both good and bad profs. But the net experience was definitely a positive one.

Also, not all fields of study are corrupted by corporate interests (pharmaceutical, agricultural, etc).

Primal Diet / Re: Vonderplanitz formal education???
« on: February 18, 2011, 10:42:07 am »
In one of his workshops, Aajonus said that after high school, he went to a computer technology institute in Cincinnati. He was borderline autistic and couldn't communicate very well, but he was good at math, and computer programming. He worked for a trucking company doing computer programming work.

According to Scott Wheeler, Aajonus' PhD is an honorary degree. See message 761 of:

Scott is the guy in this video:

I think that people should be judged not by their credentials, or formal education, but by the validity of their work.

For example, take a look at this ridiculous book, written by 2 PhDs:

As for Aajonus, I think that he has a lot of wisdom and experience, and I respect him a lot, but after reading some of the things that he has written about electromagnetic fields and radioactivity, I must say that his understanding of basic physics is not very good.

Biology is a very messy science, and if somebody makes a claim that's inconsistent with well-established biology, I would consider it seriously. But physics is very precise and rigorous. If somebody makes a claim that's inconsistent with well-established physics, I'm very skeptical.

Welcoming Committee / Re: insects anyone?
« on: February 17, 2011, 08:08:27 pm »
Why wouldn't the ants crawl around inside your mouth/oesophagus, and back out? If you're just eating them with the honey you're not going to be killing them. Or are you sure that they'll stay with the honey?

You will kill the ants when you crush them with your teeth. But even if you don't chew them, you have muscles in your esophagus which will dump the ants right into your stomach, where an HCL bath will kill them.

Hot Topics / Re: Moderation
« on: February 17, 2011, 07:33:57 am »
One thing that is not mentioned much is the importance of moderation. George Burns, the great comedian/actor, was asked how he was able to live so long. His response was, “I eat half”. Too much of a good thing can be bad.

I think that moderation is only an issue if you're eating unnatural foods, or highly-concentrated "superfoods". Does a cow eat grass "in moderation"? Does a cat eat mice "in moderation"?

Research has shown that those who lose weight and keep it off tend to eat a high fiber, moderately low-fat diet.
Most people here are primarily interested in gaining health, rather than losing weight.

General Discussion / Re: Egg with 2yolks?
« on: February 16, 2011, 08:08:40 pm »
I've seen eggs specifically labelled as double-yolk for sale at farmers markets, they're more expensive than single-yolk eggs. These were from free-range hens, not fed any chemicals or funny things.

When they sort the eggs into large,med,small, they probably also have a way to separate out the double-yolk ones.

BUT I have the feeling that he is paranoid today. He is constantly talking about battles against some enemies and threats everywhere etc. It must be the MILK, IMO. Or grain-fed meat...


He has a good reason to be paranoid. He has overturned anti-raw-milk legislation in California, and has developed a legal framework for food clubs that reject all government regulations. There are many people who want to stop him.

Once we had Aajonus stating that he had been supposedly forcibly  injected by CIA agents with vaccines, one could be reasonably certain that he was a fraud.

That story is not as unlikely as you think. Here in Canada, Michael Schmidt is the crusader of the raw milk movement. He was assaulted in public. Two of his cows were poisoned, and one of his employees was driven off the road and abducted.

Most of us here just eat raw animal foods privately in our homes, and post anonymously on internet message boards. We really have no idea what it's like to publicly promote raw animal foods and fight against health authorities. We have no right to judge people like Aajonus or Michael Schmidt as being paranoid.

Primal Diet / Re: Carbs in the a.m.
« on: February 16, 2011, 09:07:45 am »
Aajonus mentioned at a recent talk that carbs shouldn't be eaten until 6 hours after getting up, at which point all the glycogen has been made for the day from pyruvate.

Such a broad and general statement cannot possibly be always true. The body's production and utilization of glycogen will depend very much on the amount and type of physical activity that you do.

For example, suppose you do some hard exercise 7 hours after you wake up. You deplete all your glycogen stores in the process. Then after the next meal, your body is going to start replenishing that glycogen!

I'm not sure why this is important - and why glycogen made from glucose isn't ok - does anyone have an answer for that?

The reason probably is that meat->pyruvate->glucose->glycogen is a much slower and steadier process than fruit->glucose->glycogen. A zero-carber would certainly agree with this.

Also, he recommends a coffee substitute in his book made with hot water, 2-5tbs honey, and 1/2 lemon +/- vanilla extract, and since most people drink coffee in the a.m., I'm wondering how this squares with the first recommendation and would be interested in any thoughts about this.

As for unheated honey, Aajonus says that only 10% of it acts like a carbohydrate. I don't know what to make of this. I wonder how he came up with it. Maybe he did blood glucose tests and found that the height of an "unheated honey sugar spike" was only 10% of the height of a "heated honey sugar spike"?

Primal Diet / Re: egg whites for vision
« on: February 15, 2011, 01:24:50 pm »
I'm not aware of any and AV didn't provide any.

If you asked AV, he would probably say something along the following lines:

If we are unhealthy and are surrounded by toxins and pollution, then our nutrient requirements exceed our nutrient intakes. So the body has to compromise and prioritize, which tissues get which nutrients. Most of the nutrients  end up going to the essential tissues, while the non-essential tissues (such as skin and eyes) get deprived. One way to get more nutrients in, is to feed some of these tissues "from the outside".

It is well understood that the skin can absorb many different substances. (And that's why it's a bad idea to use toxic non-food soaps and creams and lotions). Aajonus is basically saying that the eye can absorb things in a similar manner. If you want scientific validation of this, you should look into books about biology of the eye, and see what they say about the eye membrane, and mechanisms for transporting various substances across it.

Or, if you just want to know that it's plausible, and aren't interested in the details, consider this:
If you go to a drug store, you'll see aisles full of various patented eye drops, eye sprays, and eye washes. Obviously, lots of studies have been done on these products, both clinical and theoretical. Some of these products can affect the working of the eye in a rather sophisticated manner. So it's quite plausible that some substances in the egg white can also affect the eye in a sophisticated manner, and heal it. But nobody's going to study egg white specifically, because you can't patent it.

Primal Diet / Re: egg whites for vision
« on: February 15, 2011, 05:32:09 am »
And how long these whites should be kept on the eyes?

Put your head back, apply the egg white, roll your head/eyes around a bit (maybe 30 sec) to get the egg white all over the eyes, then bring your head upright. Don't rinse your eyes. Just gently wipe under your eyes so you don't get egg white all over your face.

I occasionally do this, but not on a regular basis. I don't have any vision problems (in fact, I'm literally the only one in my entire extended family without glasses), but I would like to improve my tolerance to bright sunlight.

In a recent workshop, Aajonus also recommended applying melted butter to the eyes. One day egg white, next day butter, next day egg white again, etc. I haven't tried this.

Primal Diet / Re: egg whites for vision
« on: February 14, 2011, 09:46:24 pm »
Directly onto the eyes or only on the eyelids?
Btw, is there any scientific vindication of this theory?

Directly onto the eyes.

Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: High meat bacteria
« on: February 14, 2011, 11:46:28 am »
When will your book be available?

I get the impression that sabertooth's statement " my book" was meant metaphorically, i.e. ("...from my point of view")

Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: High meat bacteria
« on: February 14, 2011, 11:43:24 am »
I'm not an expert on this, but one thing to consider, is that the aerobic vs anaerobic issue is not so black-and-white. There is a whole spectrum of oxygen tolerance and requirements in bacteria. So possibly high meat contains some bacteria which can live in our intestines?

It will probably depend a lot on how you air your high meat. If you just open the jar, let it sit for a while, and then close it, then on the surface, obligate aerobes will proliferate. But deep down, you might get bacteria that can live in our intestines.

But if you thoroughly mix the meat every time you air it, then you might end up culturing mostly obligate aerobes.

Take a look at:
(In particular, the diagram with the 5 test tubes).

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