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Topics - surfsteve

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This could be an example of me being prejudice and finding someone who says what I want to hear but  seems to ring very true to me.
In it many taboos are broken. Such as turning the 60/30/10 carbohydrate, fat and protein pyramid on it's side and recommending 60%fat, 30% protein and 10% carbohydrates. (OK his version is slightly different, that's mine.) No problem yet with most of you; but then he goes on to say that grass fed meats are no better than feed lot. And even that organic fruits and vegetables are no better than conventional with which I actually agree in large part that the differences have at the very least been exaggerated.  I agree with pretty much all of the myths it mentions but got a feeling that it's going to make most of you cringe.

General Discussion / Is juicing paleo? What about alcoholic fruits?
« on: July 20, 2017, 11:00:32 pm »
I made some cherry juice from fresh cherries last night thinking it was paleo but when I woke up this morning I was thinking about it and there obviously wasn't any practical way to juice fruit in paleo times. Ok maybe from fruits like fresh squeezed orange juice in the tropics or just a couple of drops from squeezing a cherry or some other fruit but by and large I don't see any way it could have been a significant part of their diets.

More than likely most of the excess fruit that existed in those days was left on the trees and vines till it fell off and/or rotted. I remember a video one time of monkeys eating fruit that rotted and turned to alcohol and actually getting drunk from it. I've tasted fruit myself that had gone bad and had a slight alcoholic taste. This makes me think that alcohol from fruit is paleo. Though it was only available in low concentration, for a short time when it was in season. It wasn't till man had made vessels that things like grain were fermented so I don't believe all alcohol is paleo. Only under rare conditions in low concentrations.

I suppose grain could have been fermented in an animal bladder or something before pottery so I could be wrong. But then grain isn't really paleo either. Is it?

Any thoughts?

Cherries were at their lowest price of the year this week so I just made some cherry juice.

I dumped cherries in my food processor whole with the stems and pits. Ground them up with a little water and pushed them through a coarse colander strainer. Then I added a little more water and blended what was left a second time.

My strainer has huge holes so there was a little bit of ground up cherry pits in them so I ran the juice through my champion juicer while blocking the pulp side with my hand and it came out clean with hardly any waste.

If you don't have a champion try a finer strainer the second time or don't grind them up in the food processor so much that you get little bits of cherry pits.

Off Topic / The Science of Lying
« on: July 19, 2017, 03:23:41 am »

Off Topic / Placebos
« on: July 17, 2017, 02:29:06 am »

A placebo can work even when you know it’s a placebo
Half of the study volunteers were told they were getting an “open-label” placebo and the others got nothing at all. He found that there was a dramatic and significant improvement in the placebo group’s IBS symptoms, even though they were explicitly told they were getting a “sugar pill” without any active medication.

Health / Like Cures Like. Does it really?
« on: July 15, 2017, 03:16:23 am »
I am starting this thread to get to the bottom of the saying "like cures like". For me I would like to find out if eating raw kidney would be specifically good for my kidneys. I strongly dislike the taste of kidney and am almost hoping it isn't true, even though I believe it. It would be easy to dismiss the notion and state that it is absurd to think if I had a problem with my left arm that eating the left arm of animals as opposed to the right would cure my left arm. Obviously this isn't a fair assessment. I'm just trying to make a point by carrying it out to the extreme.

Upon googleing the term, like cures like, is mentioned in the context of homeopathy in about half of the search results. Homeopathy is complete bunk in my mind.

What do you guys think? Is there any validity to the saying or is it bunk?

Health / Kidney Filtration
« on: July 14, 2017, 12:13:29 am »
I understand how important it is that the kidneys are filtering properly but is this guy on the right track?

Health / Geophagy
« on: June 26, 2017, 12:25:09 am »
Geophagy is the practice of eating dirt. Many monkeys and parrots eat clay and no one knows for sure why. It is thought the parrots eat it at the same time poisonous berries are in season to help absorb the toxins. I've eaten a lot of diatomaceous earth and calcium bentonite clay in the past and started eating some again a couple of days ago. I am noticing a slight ache in the kidney area this morning and my weight is up as if I am constipated. Don't ever recall those symptoms from eating clay before. It doesn't feel healthy so I  should probably stop although it could be that the clay is detoxing me like they say and over working my kidneys. I would think I'd be fairly well detoxified already since I been on such a clean diet so it doesn't make sense.

Exercise / Bodybuilding / Armand Tanny and Raw Meat Bodybuilding
« on: June 21, 2017, 06:28:26 am »
1949 Pro. Mr. America and the 1950 Mr. USA

Bodybuilding and physical culture has, at its core, always been about pushing the limits of nutritional consumption. After all, no other sport promotes periods of intense dieting in the manner of the iron game. The quest for new nutritional approaches has led to some rather interesting diets, Armand Tanny’s raw meat diet being a case in point.

For those of us too young to remember, Tanny was a highly influential name in the bodybuilding business of yesteryear. An accomplished bodybuilder in his own right (Winner in the 1949 Pro. Mr. America and the 1950 Mr. USA competitions), Tanny also spent many decades writing on bodybuilding for the various Weider magazines.

Unlike his fellow iron game compatriots however, Tanny followed an almost entirely raw diet. That meant raw milk, raw vegetables and of course, raw meats.

So what prompted Tanny to follow this diet, what did the diet entail, and what can the modern lifter learn from it?

Going Raw

Given that raw food consumption was and  is such a taboo topic in today’s food circles, it is incredible to think that Tanny, a man who spent the bulk of his life in the United States, came across such a rare eating plan. So how did Armand stumble across this way of life?

According to old interviews and Randy Roachs’s Muscle, Smoke and Mirrors, Tanny owed his raw food conversion to a wrestling trip around America’s peripheral states. An accomplished wrestler and weightlifter in his own right, Tanny spent several months on tour in 1947 inHawaii where he squared off against the local wrestlers.

The impressive bulk and strength of his Polynesian opponents led Tanny to question the origins of their strength. For Tanny, these men were well built, strong and incredibly healthy. His desire to learn more soon brought him to their food source. The local Polynesian wrestlers consumed an almost entirely raw diet. That meant raw fruits, fish, meats and vegetables. For the young American man, it was an entirely new way of eating. One which promised big results.

Interested but unconvinced, Tanny returned to the United States eager to learn more. Having already spent one year at a medical school, he had some rudimentary knowledge of the body, but not enough to make an informed decision on raw food diets. Through months of research however, Tanny eventually stumbled across the works of Weston Price, the controversial dentists who had written extensively on the diets of traditional societies, many of whom shared the Polynesian’s perchance for raw food.

Armed with Price’s nutritional opus (Nutrition and Physical Degeneration), Tanny began his raw food journey.

So what did Tanny’s diet entail and what results did it have?

Like many trainers of his era, Tanny didn’t follow a strict dieting plan but rather ate whenever he felt necessary. That being the case, in later years Tanny estimated that he ate between ¾ (0.34 kg) to 1.5 lbs. (0.68 kg) of raw meat daily, an amount he believed supplied him with creatine in its purest form.

Generally speaking Tanny consumed ample amounts of raw fish such as tuna, lobster and even clams that he would collect at the Santa Monica Pier. Additionally he consumed beef, liver and a healthy amount of nuts, fruits and vegetables to round out his diet.

Owing to the advice of Gaylord Hauser, an nutritional guru of the time, Tanny later added brewer’s yeast, desiccated liver, yogurt, black strap molasses, and wheat germ oil. All of which were relatively standard bodybuilding supplements of the time.

The effects of this approach? Within two years, Armand had substantially improved upon his already impressive physique to the extent that he won the cobeyed 1949 Pro. Mr. America and the 1950 Mr. USA competitions before turning his hand to writing and gym management. Furthermore, Tanny’s health remained robust for several decades until his death at the age of 90, suggesting that for Armand, the raw food approach stood him in good stead.

Such an extreme eating style, did of course, have its drawbacks. Several years into his new eating approach Tanny encountered a moment of considerable embarrassment  on a stop-over in St.Louis on a trip from Los Angeles to New York. According to Tanny,

    I was hungry and needed to get something to eat. I bought a raw steak and thought I could hide it in a newspaper wrapping while I ate it on a park bench. I sat there sneaking little bites when I was joined by a woman who sat down beside me. On one of my bites, the steak pulled out of the wrapper and I was sitting there with a big hunk of raw meat hanging out of my mouth. It wasn’t long before I was sitting alone again!

His dating life aside, that Tanny boasted a lean 200 lbs. physique on a 5 feet 9’inch frame, was testament that his eating style did have its benefits.

So what can be learned from Tanny’s raw food diet?

Well I think first and foremost, a clear message from Tanny’s experience is that one has to experiment with their eating approach. Tanny’s diet was far from the mainstream, but it made him stronger, healthier and happier to eat raw food. For modern lifters, this means forging your own nutritional path.

That being said, Tanny spent months meticulously researching the raw food diet, a reminder that monitoring key health indicators and educating oneself are important for every aspiring muscle head.

Finally, Tanny’s diet reminds us to try out new things every once in a while. While a raw steak from a paper bag is perhaps a bridge too far, why not try steak tartare, raw milk or some sushi every once in a while. For Randy Roach, who incidentally is another raw food enthusiast, occasional or frequent (depending on your disposition) raw food meals present higher amounts of vitamins and minerals than their cooked counterparts. As always, exercise caution and try to consume the highest quality food available.

So who knows, mayby raw food bodybuilding will become the next fitness fad. Lord knows it will be tastier than the low fat meal plans we suffered through for many years!


When I first went from 50 percent raw to virtually 100 percent I felt really good. But then I started drying meat and making jerky and I feel as if I've taken a step backwards from eating fresh raw meat and making raw meat smoothies.

Most of what I find on the internet suggests that I am wrong and that dried food is healthy but nobody is really comparing it to fresh food. Just to cooked foods. But my instincts are telling me different. It's hard to know when to trust your instincts and when they have been perverted.

Yesterday I got through slicing up 4 pounds of beef and marinading it to make jerky. I could tell I made too much and it wasn't all going to fit in the dehydrator so I began popping pieces into my mouth and eating them raw. They tasted really good so I filled up on them as I was thinking how much better they were then after they were all dried out. Then I started loading a tray and put it in my dehydrator. I turned it on and about 30 seconds later the machine made a few weird beeps and died never to work again. Maybe someone was trying to tell me something. Here I am with nearly 4 pounds of raw beef and no dehydrator. Ok it's probably less than 3 pounds now since I finished writing this post!

Display Your Culinary Creations / Liver Jerky
« on: June 19, 2017, 12:44:24 am »
The recipe I used was the same spices as I used for hamburger jerky except that I only used half the meat and a lot more vinegar to marinade the surface of the liver rather than mix it all in like I do for the hamburger.

Here's the ingredients according to my best guess. I say guess because I didn't actually measure them:

One and a half pounds of calves liver
3 to 4 tablespoons Celtic sea salt
1 and a half tablespoons black pepper
1 tablespoon of cayenne pepper
4 teaspoons oregano
2 tablespoons dried cilantro
2 to 3 tablespoons cumin powder
4 or 5 ounces of raw cider vinegar

Cut the liver into jerky sized strips and mix all ingredients together and marinade for one hour.

Pull strips out of marinade, leave them wet with the spices attached, distributed as evenly as possible and place them on the Jerky rack

*Set dehydrator to 107 degrees and dehydrate 24 to 48 hours. Rotate the trays occasionally so that they dry evenly or don't bother and take the lower ones out first and eat them! I don't dry them all the way but leave them soft enough to bend with my hands but stiff enough so they don't flex under their own weight.

*At  the 107 degree setting, on my dehysrator, the meat in the bottom tray ranges between 96 and 102 degrees F. While the top tray ranges between 89 and 96 degrees according to my infrared thermometer gun. Yours may vary.

No more having to chop up meat in my food processor (unless I want to). I spent half the day yesterday looking at meat slicers on the internet. You can buy a really cheap electric one on Ebay for 30 dollars new, but I wanted to find the best one for the money. I settled on a used, Chef's Choice, model 615. A high end home slicer that should last a very long time. They retail for 150 dollars plus tax and shipping which adds a considerable amount. I was considering a model 650 I found, which retails for 350 dollars that had a broken knob, but it also turned out to be missing the part the meat slides on and the finger guard and I couldn't find anywhere to buy parts for it so I took a pass on it.

Now I'll have every tool I need including a set of really sharp knives a stone and a good steel to keep them razor sharp. Got all my knives from the thrift store. I guess I really can't call them a set since they don't match but I got every kind of smooth blade imaginable. No serrated ones for me! Though I will occasionally pick up a serrated knife for a tomato if I'm too lazy to grab the cutting board. Got one of those too! I opted for a flexible, rubbery plastic one. I'm glad I did. The fact that they bend makes them easy to dump the food I sliced in a bowl or baggie. It takes up virtually no space in the kitchen and doesn't require constant care like the old fashioned wooden butcher blocks!

I'm all set now and have everything I need to be a raw gourmet chef!

Display Your Culinary Creations / Hamburger Jerky
« on: June 14, 2017, 08:52:51 am »
I'm not going to post my recipe till it's done but as a primer here is someone's youtube video on making hamburger jerky.

If you're a health conscious raw paleo you won't want to follow this guy's recipe at all but I think there's some valuable tricks in there that definitely make it worth watching!

World's Easiest Beef Jerky! No Jerky Gun? No Smoker? No Dehydrator? No Problem!

Display Your Culinary Creations / Whipped egg whites are nasty
« on: June 14, 2017, 06:11:17 am »
I've been making Ingred's berry and whipped egg yolks every day since I discovered it. Sometimes twice a day Yum!

I been throwing away the egg whites. Yesterday I decided to try whipping them up. They looked so good when I made them but read on...

I began by whipping up 6 egg whites on low, then medium and then high speed for a couple of minutes.

Next I added a pinch of salt, a tablespoon of honey and the juice of 4 key limes, all slowly while whipping them on high.

Boy did they whip up. Filled a one quart sauce pan all the way to the top!

They looked so good but when I tasted them I didn't like them at all. Maybe they would have been ok if I had added a ton of sugar to them but that would have defeated the purpose of a raw healthy snack. They ruined my grapes that I had in whipped yolk. I added half of them and it was still way too much. It over powered them and filled me up to where I could only eat half. Had to throw the rest away this morning. Every other day I was able to easily finish off six yolks and some kind of fruit but this actually gave me a stomach ache.

Try it at your own risk. I suppose some people will actually like that kind of thing but not me! I guess when they make key lime pie they bake it in the oven. It's hard to believe something that looked so good tasted so terrible and was so hard on my stomach.

Raw egg yolks yum!

Raw egg whites yuk!


If there's one thing that motivated me to eat raw food more than anything else it was this video!

Raw tripe seems so good for me. It's like gelatin on steroids for my joints; but I haven't found a way to consume it that I actually enjoy. Mixing it in water into a smoothie is gross. No matter how long I try to grind it there always seems to be a string or two of the stuff that gets stuck half way down my throat.

Today I tried slicing it frozen in my food processor, defrosting it and smothering it in garlic, onions and hot sauce with a little pepper and cilantro. I think it would have been better without the garlic and more onions. The garlic over powered the taste which is kind of bland with a hint of fishiness. I think I'll leave it out next time. It might be better too with lemon juice instead of hot sauce.

It's not the taste that I mind. It's the texture. Even sliced really thin in the food processor it was still next to impossible to chew and had the taste and texture of eating paper.

I have my doubts if early paleo's ate it because it is so tough. It would be impossible to tear off a chunk of tripe from a cow with human teeth and chew it; and would require a very sharp knife to cut it up.

The best way to describe eating raw tripe without actually eating it is to buy a box of raw fish. Throw the fish away and eat the box and that's exactly what it tastes like!

Health / Caffeine is easy to give up. I've done it 100's of times!
« on: June 10, 2017, 01:48:43 am »
Anybody got any advise for giving up caffeine? No matter how many times I give it up I always seem to come back to it. I tell myself one cup a day is ok but eventually it leads to two and three and a caffeine headache. The headache seems to be a symptom of withdrawal and usually comes on at night and is alleviated somewhat by drinking a cup of coffee.

Display Your Culinary Creations / Honey Mustard Sweetbreads
« on: June 09, 2017, 12:43:43 am »
Going off the name sweetbreads I decided to go with a honey mustard sauce.

I ran the sweetbreads through the slicer on my food processor while still frozen. They looked like bonita flakes but once they defrosted they turned into a pile of mushy slime. I used a 4 oz frozen packet that I had prepared from cutting them up. I added honey, dried mustard, salt, pepper and vinegar to the still frozen sweetbread shavings and stirred it all up with a fork and left them to defrost into a pile of slime. They actually didn't taste as bad as they sound. They were fatty but had a subtle bit of gristle like texture to them. I think they would have been good with some ginger added to them as well.

Display Your Culinary Creations / Rocky Mountain Oysters
« on: June 08, 2017, 12:36:56 pm »
Ok I haven't tried this one yet but I'm feeling bold after my success with the liver and onions and am looking for new ways to prepare organ meats other than putting them in the blender with water and chugging them down.

To me rocky mountain oysters don't taste that good so I'm planning on disguising the taste with lots of hot sauce , fresh minced garlic, salt and pepper and a little cilantro. If I had fresh I would use it but I only have dried. I will maybe add a little worchestershire sauce to it but plan on tasting it first. 

I have all my ingredients except the "oysters" sitting on my counter and plan on making it for my next meal tomorrow, as it's already pretty late. Everything is raw except the hot sauce and W sauce. I suppose I could just use some vinegar and cayenne pepper instead. I will have to see how I feel at the time I decide to make it.

My prairie oysters are already peeled, sliced, and put into 4 oz individual sandwich bags; pressed out and frozen. (Hint: the easiest way to skin them is to throw frozen ones into hot water for a couple minutes, slice down one side and grab the skin with a pair of pliars. You can also filet them with a knife if they are fresh or once they are defrosted but that takes a lot more work.) I bought 20 pounds and my butcher gave me a deal if I would buy the whole case because I am the only one that orders them.  So all I have to do tomorrow is take out a prepared bag, defrost it a little and add my ingredients; and presto!

I will report back on how it goes once I give it a try.

I'm looking forward to discovering new recipes for my organ meats I'm getting tired of just putting them in the blender with water and chugging them down.

Wish me luck!

Display Your Culinary Creations / Liver and Onions
« on: June 08, 2017, 12:03:07 pm »
I just got through eating liver and onions. It was pretty good. I ran about 2 oz of onions through the grater in my food processor then I flipped the blade over and ran a 4 oz slice of frozen liver through the slicer. Added salt, pepper and vinegar and mixed it all up with a fork. I could have doubled the recipe had I wanted it for a meal but I had the last of my steak tartare and was still a little hungry.

General Discussion / Does anybody hear sprout?
« on: June 07, 2017, 11:30:22 am »
I haven't sprouted anything for at least a year and then it was only pinto beans. When I was really into sprouting hard core my favorite thing to sprout was Vernal alfalfa. It used to be the most available seed you could buy from the feed store but now other varieties have taken it's place. I always got an incredible amount of energy from sprouting vernal alfalfa that I never got from any other kind. It also tasted different. It was much more bitter. Other varieties were sweet. I read one website that said "vernal alfalfa will make your horses run like the wind!" I swear it's true. I can't swear to the part about horses but it did make me run like the wind!

I was also into sprouting wheat grass but didn't care for it. Oh I forgot I did make some sprouted wheat bread about a month or two ago. It was actually sprouted organic rye. I bought a 25 pound sack of rye a few years ago and still got most of it.

I don't think most people think of sprouts as paleo but I bet a lot of tender young shoots of all kinds of stuff were eaten in the spring by our paleo ancestors.

For some reason I was thinking of this video and thought you guys might find it funny.

Making your own mayonnaise can be very rewarding. It lets you use your own healthy oils, is free of preservatives and forms the basis for all thick salad dressings. Plus it's almost like magic when you are able to combine two watery substances together into a thick mixture without cooking them.

Mayonnaise is basically an emulsification of raw egg, water (or vinegar), oil and spices. But when you mix all those ingredients together you normally wind up with a gooey mess. The trick to making it is mixing it in such a way that it becomes emulsified into beautiful thick mayonnaise.  To do this successfully is more of an art than a process which is so delicate that superstitions have developed over generations that a batch will fail if it is made with someone in the room with the wrong vibe. It has almost become a religion.

I've made hundreds of batches of mayo and I've done it successfully for so long that hardly any of my batches ever fail but when I first started making it I had a hell of a time getting it to emulsify. Forget about making it by hand or even in a food processor. That is for experts. The trick I've learned is to use a stick mixer but even that often led to "mayo fail".

To sum up the tricks I know into one paragraph: Use a stick mixer. Find a tall thin jar, just big enough to get the stick mixer in. Crack the egg yolk into the bottom of the jar, add your oil and little water or vinegar and wait about fifteen minutes for the temperatures of the oil and egg to equalize before mixing; don't forget the water at this stage. If you wait to add the water after you start mixing it will be too late and no matter how long you mix it will not thicken into an emulsification.  Hold the stick mixer over the egg yolk and begin with slow pulsating mixes. Do not move it! Start with tiny slow bursts and make them longer once you see mayo beginning to form at the bottom of the jar. Once that happens you can hold the trigger on the mixer continuously but do not move it from the bottom of the jar till you see a glob of thick mayo form. Once that happens slowly rock the mixer and pull it up ever so slightly to see if you can feel the thickness sticking the mixer to the jar. Once that happens slowly pull the mixer up and down a little at a time, increasing it as it thickens till you go all the way to the top. After that you can add spices and more water or vinegar or whatever you want.

Hopefully this video will be of more help to anyone desiring to make their own home made mayonnaise. Good luck!

She makes it look so simple but really it's not. Well it is but it's kind of like riding a bicycle. Don't give up if you fail. Don't forget to let the temperatures of all the ingredients equalize and don't forget to add a little water or vinegar before you start mixing! (you can ignore this step if all your ingredients have already been sitting out on the counter.)

I just tried steak tartar for the first time and my first reaction was Oh My God! I got the idea from watching the video below but I made it a lot differently . In my version instead of cubing the steak I took it out of the freezer for about an hour and popped it into my food processor semi frozen with the slicing blade on it. I cut the meat up just so it would fit in the food processor and left the slices whole. It was probably a lot chewier that way. I just did it because I was too lazy to cut it up and thought the slices would be nice. A little like beef jerky. Also I only used lemon juice, salt and pepper to spice it. I can't believe how good it tastes. Why haven't I made this before? Though this was my first time eating raw steak I've been eating it practically raw for quite some time only cooking it enough to brown the outside. Sometimes it was even cold in the middle. So I guess I've  been eating it semi tartar for a while. I had no idea going totally raw would taste so good! Who knew?

p.s. It was way better than beef jerky!

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