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Messages - surfsteve

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General Discussion / Re: Jordan Peterson has gone carnivore
« on: Yesterday at 04:51:16 am »
Been really noticing a difference since I been going primarily raw carnivore. I tried 100% pure carnivore for a day but found I was craving the wheatgrass juice so I been taking that. I also had one day where my skin was 100% clear over my entire body but have since developed one small pimple that's nearly healed.

Still have been eliminating my use of essential oils or drastically cutting back. Been using borax and water as a deodorant. I've noticed a definite ammonia smell that is sometimes there but only lasts a few minutes which is quite interesting after spraying it on. I wonder; what causes that?

My total meat consumption is off the charts and I've been averaging 5 or more pounds of meat a day. My raw organ meat consumption has also gone off the charts and has been as low as 2 pounds but more often 3 or more pounds a day.

I also have been loosing the back aches I feel in the mornings. Some days they are completely gone, others they are greatly diminished.

My consumption of lemons has gone down drastically too. I feel like keeping this diet a while and if I get an urge to gradually add some foods back in. One thing I'm not going to do is freak because I'm hardly eating any vegetables like I did before. I'm actually taking quite a lot of reconstituted, powdered, wheatgrass juice. Often two heaping tablespoons. I feel right taking it and also think it helps with body odor.

Any ideas why borax plus body odor equals ammonia smell? Perhaps it's because it gets rid of other smells I thought and that is all that is left but I actually get the feeling that it may be producing ammonia because it's rather strong. Good thing is that it only lasts for a couple minutes and then evaporates or something. I find it more strange than bothersome.

Hot Topics / Re: Medicinal Mushrooms/Fungi, not Magic Mushrooms
« on: Yesterday at 12:24:46 am »
I used to use them quite a bit. I would hardly put them in the same category as meat. You can live off meat and be quite healthy. I doubt you could do the same with mushrooms. Actually I think they would make you quite sick; but then that's just my own anecdotal opinion.

Just googled this:
t’s an interesting question, but no. I don’t believe this is possible. Fungi, as has been pointed out, tend not to contain much in the way of fats. Likely, they contain insufficient quantities of vital nutrients like vitamin C as well. Now, if you branched out from mushrooms into yeasts and other microflora, you could probably genetically engineer them to produce almost anything you needed.

But vegan diets, by absolute necessity, already contain yeasts and fungi. Humans cannot survive on a vegan diet that includes only fruits and plants (much less one that includes only fruits). People who adopt such diets will quickly fall prey to deficiency diseases. Vitamin B-12 is found only in animal products, fungi, and microflora.

Interestingly, humans have no problem whatsoever thriving on a purely carnivorous diet which includes whole animals, some of it raw. We can get total nutrition purely from animals.

Welcoming Committee / Re: Finally starting to see the light...
« on: October 19, 2018, 10:52:00 pm »
O.P. You mentioned in the first post that no matter how much you exercised you never gained any muscle. I can relate to that when I used to exercise a lot; but I since have learned it doesn't work that way. If you want your muscles to grow you need to only exercise enough to stimulate them to grow. No more. No less. Of course as they grow you will need to exercise more with heavier weights to properly stimulate them. Just realize; it is not the exercise that makes them grow. It is the repairing while you are resting afterward. Nutrition also needs to be approached the same way. Compare yourself to a fire. If you add to much wood to suddenly or too much oxygen; the fire will die instead of grow. Continue to balance the right amount and type of exercise, nutrition and rest; and your body will grow like it's on fire!

General Discussion / Re: Jordan Peterson has gone carnivore
« on: October 17, 2018, 11:56:31 pm »
Ok. I get your point now. I wouldn't want to chew more than a mouth full or perhaps a sprig like you see so many people doing in the movies. Dried wheatgrass has a mineral smell and taste that I am attracted to. Unlike most of the people on this forum I am not married to the idea that the diet our ancestors ate was perfect or that it couldn't be improved upon. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I never got the cold I suspected I was coming down with so I must be on the right track. I also keep going to the gym, planning to work out lightly but work out like an animal when I get there. Anyone that claims it is impossible to get the same benefits from organ meats as steroids hasn't eaten pounds and pounds of them every day. They say you absorb less than one or two percent of the testosterone from meat when you take it orally. My answer to that is to just take 50 or 100 times the dose. A few pills aren't going to cut it...

Only thing that concerns me is I wake up in the mornings with a mild back ache that goes away soon after I pee, leading me to suspect kidneys.

I am actually considering trying Jordan's diet of beef salt and water, except raw with at least 50% organ meat.

I am cheating with coffee. A few months ago I was doing 3 or 4 cups a day. It was bad. I forced myself to only a cup a day and last week I cut down to half a cup and am hoping to go back to none fairly soon. I'm pretty sure I wasn't drinking any at all in April when I was at my peak.

I'm not craving any wheatgrass at all this morning (or any food at all yet) so I think I'll skip or delay it till I get an urge to take some.  I ate over 6 pounds of meat yesterday. I was ravenous. All but a few bites were beef, mostly organ meat smoothies. I had some salmon and some shrimp, pickled in lemon juice and only ate a few bites of each of them. I was craving beef!

My weight is definitely going up and I have gained between 1.5 and 4.5 pounds in just a few days. Will know more when I can determine if the 4.5 pounds is water weight or not. It's definitely not fat. I'm going to continue to play it by ear and do whatever my body tells me while hoping my natural instincts haven't been corrupted too bad.

I am hoping the morning back aches will go away as soon as my body has gotten rid of all the toxins stored in the fat I am loosing. Though no doubt I will be also be disposing of the toxins in the factory farmed meat I am eating, so it will be an on going thing. To the best of my memory I didn't have those morning back aches when I was at my peak in April.

Welcoming Committee / Re: Finally starting to see the light...
« on: October 17, 2018, 11:10:48 pm »
I too was eating grass fed but only for a month as an experiment but like you, was only able to find muscle meats. When I went back to eating organ meats I felt much better and now that I am back to virtually full carnivore I am eating 5 pounds of meat a day and there's no way I can afford grass fed so I'm not worrying about it and am doing just fine so maybe being unable to find grass fed organ meat is not all that bad...

I would strongly say that it's more important to eat organ meats than to forgo them and only eat grass fed muscle meats.

I still have some grass fed meat and I do like the taste better after becoming accustomed to it but when I first tried it it seemed kind of tasteless.

Wild caught sea food it a bargain if you buy it frozen. It's actually cheaper to buy salmon that way than to buy it farmed fresh.

General Discussion / Re: Jordan Peterson has gone carnivore
« on: October 17, 2018, 04:38:47 am »
I went with my gut instinct and sense of smell and consumed a large amount of reconstituted wheatgrass juice powder this morning. Your advise to use fresh doesn't make sense to me since I am consuming the powder though I agree fresh would probably be better to consume. Fresh grown wheatgrass grown outside with deep roots for 180 days or more is nearly impossible to come by and is nothing like tray grown for 10 to 14 days . I actually believe that the powder is better than freshly grown tray wheatgrass. My sense of smell and instinct tells me that too!

In thinking about Jordan Peterson's diet, though I'm not following it exactly Wasn't he also going with his instincts like I am and throwing out all of the experts advise and blood tests? I think I'm also going to continue consuming lemons. I've always liked them, even as a child. Only difference I'm going to cut down and only consume them when I'm really craving them instead of consuming as many as I can because of the belief that they are so good for me.

Since I'm doing so well, so far, without spices. I'm only going to use salt. At least for a while and see how it goes.

Also the cold I got flash symptoms indicating I may be coming down with has not given me any symptoms and never (so far) has manifested it's self. I'm thinking I probably dodged a cold. I can't think of a time that's ever happened before without taking monolaurin. I don't want to get my hopes up too much but it would be great if I could get back to where I was in April and maybe even push a little beyond.

General Discussion / Re: Jordan Peterson has gone carnivore
« on: October 17, 2018, 12:16:26 am »
I've been supplement free for a week or so but I've got HCL and monolaurin standing by. By comparison I'm probably a lot more carnivore than you when I eat only meat with a few lemons and a couple tablespoons of wheatgrass juice powder.

Yesterday I was intending on trying a full carnivore day but for some reason I cooked a rare hamburger and at the last second put some ketchup on it which is a huge step backwards for me. This morning my back hurts and I wish I had just done my raw organ meat smoothies like I intended last night. I've also felt like I am about to come down with a cold for the past few days. Normally I take monolaurin and HCL at the first sign of a cold but the symptoms are a little different this time and have only lasted from a few seconds to under an hour. Even my backache.

Yesterday morning instead of taking the monolaurin I told myself that I would keep it close by and even intended on mixing up some HCL in a water bottle to take with me to the gym in case my cold symptoms came back. I also intended on hardly working out and “coasting” but when I got to the gym I felt the urge to go full animal on the weights and started pedaling aggressively in my cycling class till around half way through when I hit a wall. I took it easy for about 15 minutes and the symptoms subsided and pedaled moderately through the rest of the class “exercising” caution.

I am thinking that my diet is vastly superior to Jordan Peterson's diet because it is 50% raw organ meats and 50% raw or hardly cooked muscle meats.  It's been less than a week on that diet and I can already see a huge increase in muscle size and definition. I know if I continue that everyone in the gym is going to accuse me of taking steroids, 'cause the same thing happened before on this diet, but the joke is on them!  When I did it before, I added lots of spices, wheatgrass juice powder and lemons to the meat, making me nearly 99% carnivore but I can't help wondering what would happen if I cut them out and went 100%. My gut instinct tells me to cut out the spices and lemons and just go with meat and wheatgrass juice powder so I'm torn between experimenting with that or going 100% carnivore.

I'm surprised my cold symptoms have been held at bay and that I haven't had to take any HCL and monolaurin for them but with this back ache I realize that I am right on the verge and the symptoms could manifest and overwhelm me at any second. Perhaps I should try 100% carnivore till the symptoms “make up their mind” and if I am successful in beating the cold try adding the wheatgrass juice powder into the mix in a few days. I am really torn between trying that and going straight to the wheatgrass. I think if I had done the wheatgreas yesterday that I wouldn't have had the urge to use ketchup on my evening meal. Funny. I can still taste that ketchup as if I had just eaten it a minute ago. Must be all in my mind. I just went over to the kitchen and took a whiff of wheatgrass and when I smelled it my instinct told me “I need this” so I should probably go with that...

Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Bulking with animal products versus carbs?
« on: October 15, 2018, 12:52:22 pm »
Definitely! Though I wonder if you will bulk as much as you would with carbs there's no doubt in my mind you will be leaner. I just started working out heavy again. I find organ meats work particularly well for bulking and are superior over muscle meats. I been taking one or two each of: liver, thymus, bulls balls and tripe each day. Each smoothie contains about 4 oz. of meat meaning I consume one to two pounds of raw organ meat daily. I eat equal to slightly less muscle meats consisting mainly of beef, salmon and shrimp, in that order. A week or two ago I was eating less than half that much meat and lots of veggies. I feel so much better lately, both mentally and physically. Was concerned of developing body odor on account of all the meat but I don't think it's any worse, maybe even better. Anyway I researched all kinds of ways to get rid of body odor. Been using essential oils but trying to get away from them and discovered a few tablespoons of borax in a quart of water makes a great deodorant spray that is enough to last for quite a long time. I'm surprised that it works even better than the oils and is a zillion times cheaper. I am also amazed that you can use it for hair and even get it in your eyes. I read you aren't supposed to but then I remembered when I was a kid they used boric acid as an eye wash. As an experiment I intentionally put a spray of borax in my eye and it actually felt soothing. I read that some countries, including Australia have banned borax but here in the states it's really cheap and available.

For years and years I have always used a ton of herbs and spices on my meat but after hearing Jordan Peterson rant and rave about how he only eats beef and salt and water I decided to try only seasoning my meat with (Celtic sea) salt and was surprised to find it tastes great! Perhaps I am onto something and all those spices (instead of helping me) were putting unnecessary stress on my kidneys and liver. I think the essential oils were doing that too. Only started this a couple days ago but I feel noticeably less back pain. Am getting the feeling that vegetables aren't as good as everyone thinks they are and starting to believe that they produce poisons intentionally to help keep us from eating them and that we can cope with them but that they are not the ideal food for man. Still doing wheatgrass and lemons and am going to try this for a while and see how it goes.

Getting back to meats it's been my experience that organ meats allow you to cut fat and add bulk at the same time.  It just doesn't get any better than that!

Primal Diet / Re: Best Blenders,Juicers and Food Processors ?
« on: October 15, 2018, 07:55:00 am »
I know this is an old thread but I just got a new Ninja food processor yesterday and it is amazing. It used to take 5 minutes to grind up tripe in my old one and it was still so chunky it made me gag. Now I can spend less than 45 seconds and it comes out amazingly smooth. It also does frozen liver into smoothies in 20 seconds.

My ex girlfriend had one a few years ago and swore by it but she paid 100 dollars for it. They got them on Amazon right now for 25.99 and are the exact same thing. I think it's because they are closing them out and have newer models that now cost 159.00  that I wonder if are as good since the motor is now on the bottom and can possibly cause friction to heat up the food like my old blender used to.

Here's the link if interested: They do claim to be remanufactured but mine looked brand new. I even ordered a couple spares today cause I'll bet I wont be finding anything that good again for that price.

General Discussion / Re: Jordan Peterson has gone carnivore
« on: October 15, 2018, 07:30:16 am »
I never put much stock in anything Jordan Peterson ever said but damn he sure looks a lot better since he started his carnivore diet.

I went back and tried to reconstruct my diet based on posts I've made on this and other forums and when I was at my best in mid April able to do 26 pullups I was eating darn near carnivore with the exception of lots of lemons and a tablespoon or 2 of wheatgrass juice powder. Been on that diet for the past few days and I can really feel the difference.

Also when I was eating all those sprouts recently, I felt a little hopeless and depressed and now I feel back to my old self; but still only up to 15 from twelve pull ups a few days ago. Been watching a lot of carnivore videos about other people and am really starting to suspect that a lot of plants contain poisons designed to keep animals from eating them. I've also gone back to eating a little extremely rare meat as a treat, instead of 100 percent raw: meat, fruit and vegetables.

Thinking about how eating all those sprouts and vegetables lately has affected my mood and I can sort of relate to all the hostility that seems to come from so many vegans.

Not sure why I changed my diet when I was at my peak in April. I remember thinking "I'm not eating enough vegetables" and things seem to have progressed down hill from there. These past few months I've been experimenting all over the place. Felt better eating a few legumes but not 100% right. 

I also been using lots of essential oils recently and noticing some kidney pain when I wake up in the mornings. I cut way down on those too as I think even wearing them on my skin is putting unnecessary stress on my kidneys. To be honest I'm worried that I may develop some body odor from all the meat I been eating. Maybe the wheatgrass will also help with that and I wont feel the need to use the oils that much.

Enough rambling. Anybody still with me?

General Discussion / Re: Jordan Peterson has gone carnivore
« on: October 10, 2018, 11:59:08 pm »

Jordan Peterson’s Carnivore Diet – SHOULD YOU TRY IT?

Hot Topics / Re: The least toxic (cooked) junk food.
« on: October 08, 2018, 10:26:29 pm »
Are cooked Beans health wise better than cooked meat? While I cheat my raw paleo diet with cooked meat mostly.
I feel that cooking degrades meat. It kills the vitamins and makes it harder to digest but for legumes it does the opposite rendering a toxic food potentially harmless. Legumes like pinto beans should not be eaten at all on a paleo diet as they are not paleo but if you eat them you should definitely cook them. As far as health goes they are consumed heavily by all of the blue zones where people live the longest and pretty much all centenarians eat them.  The exception to the rule that raw is good or raw is better definitely does not apply to beans.

Hot Topics / Re: The least toxic (cooked) junk food.
« on: October 08, 2018, 01:24:15 am »
When I want to eat junk food lately I have a bowl of pinto beans. They may not be junk food; but  they seem to satisfy my cravings and are still a fairly clean food. I find that if I cook them for 3 or 4 hours they don't give me gas. I usually spice them up and pour coconut oil over them.

I agree with Van to be concerned with fermenting food in plastic bags and that it was probably some type of anaerobic bacteria that formed. Now that I think about it I did have a little diarrhea after consuming it but never connected the two in my mind till just now. It probably would have been a lot worse had I not taken the betaine HCL right after eating it. From now on I will try and use my souse vide cooker to only warm the food and not leave it in there for hours and hours, giving it a chance to ferment. I've also been heating up a frying pan and cooking meat only till it is warmed a little in the middle. Most of the time it works but yesterday someone came to the door while I was cooking and the meat was well above body temperature in the middle and parts of it were actually cooked.

I don't like eating cold meat out of the fridge unless it is pickled in lemon juice or vinegar. I thought about warming it in my food dehydrator but am afraid that it will lead me to eating dehydrated meats again and plus it is hard to clean.

I guess the important thing to note is that warming meat to low temperatures such as 108F. leads to bacteria production and needs to be taken into account. From now on I will make an effort not to leave it in much longer than is needed to achieve the desired temperature.

I wonder if maybe warming the meat in a dehydrator and using plastic or wax paper underneath it would be a good idea. I think I'll put some wax paper on my store list and give it a try.

I really like preparing raw meat in a salad, ceviche style or as a tartare, which is pretty much the same thing, only with less vegetables; but confess I need a change now and then. Plus simply warming it is a little more paleo style, simulating a fresh kill; though that is notas  high on my list of priorities as it appears to be to most people on this forum.


For several days I've been "cooking" my food at 108 degrees F. I cooked some steak and salmon yesterday. I ate the steak for lunch but left the salmon in the sous vide cooker till later that evening. I spiced it up with herbs including plenty of lemon that I had dried in my dehydrator and after a couple bites I noticed it had a stinky smell to it. This has never happened at higher temperatures but apparently 108 degrees is low enough to let bacteria grow. As far as I know the meat didn't taste sour but it's hard to tell with all the lemon I put on it. Before this forum I would have been afraid to eat it but I did and it didn't taste that bad and I finished every last bite.

My question is: Does fish taste sour when it becomes fermented? If I hadn't covered it in lemon I would know for sure.

I'm a little concerned because I know high meat is fermented in the refrigerator and this was done at 108 degrees so maybe it has a different taste depending upon what temperature it's fermented at due to the type of bacteria that are encouraged to grow. As soon as I finished eating I downed a glass of betaine HCL water to ensure my stomach acids would be strong enough to help my body  kill whatever bacteria were present...


General Discussion / Re: Carnivore diet burnout
« on: October 01, 2018, 12:52:14 am »
You guys who live near farmers markets are very lucky. I've searched far and wide for the nearest farmers market and have only been able to find grass fed liver at over 100 miles away and back ordered over a month.  Luckily the local supermarket chains sell grass fed beef and I bought some on sale a few weeks ago and stocked up my freezer with it. I've also found grass fed ground beef fairly reasonable in family packs at one store. I begged and pleaded with the local markets to find some grass fed organ meats. Even the one 100 miles away only carries liver and as I said even that was severely back ordered.

I went a few weeks eating only grass fed. I felt good at first but decided that it was better to eat conventional organ meats than only grass fed meat and no organ meat at all. I feel much better since resuming that practice. Like I was really missing something. For now I'm only buying grass fed muscle meats and am willing to pay more than twice as much for lesser cuts of flesh meats. I'm going back to eating 50% organ meat even though grass fed is unavailable and plan to continue till I find a good source that is grass fed, and antibiotic and hormone free.

I have to confess. I believe I felt much better eating grass fed muscle meats than conventional feed lot beef. I can only imagine how good it must be to get grass fed organ meats as well. I'm still very lucky that wild caught frozen shrimp and salmon are available. Between that and grass fed beef I am able to eat a good portion of grass fed or wild caught meat. So I guess I am pretty lucky after all. Add to this my substituting sprouts grown in fulvic acid for a good portion of my supermarket bought vegetables and cutting way down on fruit since the summer is over and I been feeling pretty great these days!

General Discussion / Re: Carnivore diet burnout
« on: September 30, 2018, 09:09:12 pm »
If you're bored with your diet maybe your body is trying to tell you something. Maybe you need a change or some variety in your diet. Maybe even some herbs and veggies. It may not be your diet at all. Maybe there is some other area in your life that needs attention to prevent you from thinking about food all the time. I don't sit down and say a prayer before every meal but I do sometimes thank the animals and even the plants for the nourishment they provide and the sacrifice they went through to enable me to live. Maybe taking some time out to appreciate the things you already have might be just what you need.

Off Topic / Re: Curious re RPDers reports on long-term water-fasting
« on: September 29, 2018, 11:48:21 pm »
I've read that you don't loose as much weight when fasting as if you ate a little bit. The theory is that you're body goes into some kind of starvation mode and tries to conserve it's self. But then this could be bogus. I also read you were supposed to loose weight on a keto diet and was under the impression you could eat all the fat you wanted as long as you were under 50 grams of carbs. I found out the hard way that this is totally bogus and gained a ton of weight. I've lost close to fifty pounds since then after realizing it has to do more with calories in, calories out and that keto is only
"supposed" to decrease your appetite. My guess is that you will loose weight faster, fasting than eating a well balanced diet because the calories in, calories out rule is the truth but that it may trigger an eating urge after you come off the fast. If I may make a suggestion, I would suggest not putting any time limit and go with what your gut tells you and fast till you feel you've achieved the reset you are looking for. There are just too many bogus rules out there to follow and I feel strictly following them over common sense just gets people into trouble. Just go with your instincts. It's not like you are in some kind of contest to see if you can make it a week or not. Unless you actually are and trying to test your will power. Rules were meant to be broken. Look at politics for example. Or even driving where it says you are supposed to dim your highbeams at 500 feet. Black and white can not be 100% accurate in a world of color.

General Discussion / What Does the Bible Say About Eating Vegetables?
« on: September 29, 2018, 11:14:32 pm »
I'm not a big bible fan but I was thinking about it and wondering. Seems like the only thing they weren't supposed to eat before they were kicked out of the garden of Eden was a vegetable or if you're being more particular a fruit. And there is also suppose do be something in there about eating pork; but didn't that come later?

Palm lines are pseudoscience and more likely only a coincidence from having longer lines due to being more limber and folding your hands more from using them. My mentally ill next door neighbor boasts of having long lifelines but he also believes he is a super genius and talks directly to Donald Trump, giving him advise when it's only someone using it as a screen name. I've considered using the name myself and pranking him for a laugh but I'm not that kind of guy...

Primal Diet / Re: Raw Milk Adjusting Period?
« on: September 28, 2018, 10:33:47 pm »
Raw cows milk is designed for cows. Humans should only be drinking raw breast milk. Good luck in finding any willing participants!

General Discussion / Re: Mucus - beneficial or harmful?
« on: September 28, 2018, 10:21:22 pm »
You could look into a pressure cooker if you want to leach more minerals out of bones without vinegar.  You may just consider eating the bones after they've been softened to death by it as many minerals will still remain behind. If you have healthy stomach acid your body will produce it's own acid, instead of vinegar to digest them.  I'm pretty sure all that salt would do to bones is make them salty. What type of salt would you be using? A good unprocessed Celtic or French gray sea salt will provide many of those minerals you are seeking. Sounds like you could benefit from a good finely powdered bone meal as well. Kal makes one. I add fulvic acid to the water I use for growing my sprouts to make them explode with trace minerals. I used to grow some of the best tasting tomatoes in the world with it. The type of fulvic acid sold for gardening is very strong and not meant for direct human consumption. There is another kind sold as a supplement but as far as I know it is only sold in homeopathic doses which wont do much good.

As far as mucus goes it is necessary to protect your stomach from digesting it's self but most people produce way to much of it due to poor diet and environmental circumstances. Good digestion is essential for keeping mucus under control. Congestion or a thick sticky mucus in the throat can interfere with respiratory function and is an indication that something isn't right. I've never heard of anyone producing to little mucus but I suppose it's possible. Heartburn rather than being a sign of too little mucus is almost always a sign of low stomach acid. High stomach acid is the body's first line of defense in destroying diseases causing pathogens. I've made dozens of posts recommending betaine HCL to restore healthy stomach acid. It is much stronger than vinegar and a whole lot easier to assimilate because it is the same kind of acid produced by your own body.

General Discussion / Re: Discussion: At what temperature is food still raw?
« on: September 28, 2018, 01:07:55 am »
I still remember in my youth, one day, hiking in the mountains on a very hot day,for only two or three hours with a previously frozen, unopened package of hot dogs in the top of my back pack and eating an entire hot dog and part of a second one before realizing that it was the hot dogs that were sour and not a problem with my taste buds, before throwing the rest of them out and wondering if I had been poisoned by them. As many of you might have guessed, nothing happened and I never got sick from eating them. Odd thinking back that it was the same logic and reasoning telling me that they couldn't have been spoiled in such a short time that kept me eating them yet also led me to believe that I might get sick from them.

I tend to think that prehistoric man, eating freshly killed animals was not always what happened and that the majority of meat eaten by them came from grubs and insects or was scavenged. Our high stomach acid content suggests that we are well adapted to eating decaying flesh. More so than other faster, stronger animals with sharp teeth and claws.  But then, just because man ate a certain way doesn't mean it was ideal and fresh food that hasn't baked out in the hot sun may indeed be better. I suppose the same argument could be made for eating cooked food. I guess I'm trying to find out where to draw the lines. How about examining the diet and characteristics of people like centenarians that have lived the longest?

So are there a number of us that think that food that has been “baked” by the hot sun is closer to cooked food than raw food? At this point I'm starting to believe that my natural craving for sour foods very well could have something to do with my ancestors eating spoiled meat and fermented vegetables. Right now I've got some five day old ceviche that just a short time ago I'd have thrown away, but will eat with no hesitation so I guess I'm making progress in that direction.

General Discussion / Re: Discussion: At what temperature is food still raw?
« on: September 27, 2018, 08:04:08 pm »
 I stand corrected. If 104 degrees F. is the upper limit than clearly, unless they lived in northern climates, our paleo ancestors ate cooked food. Even in northern climates the sun can warm food well above that temperature.

I don't know about other animals but human beings can have a fever above 104 and still survive. I've heard that the lethal temperature is 107 degrees.

Do you think that maybe there is a different temperature that is considered cooked for different foods? I live near Death Valley and I've grown tomatoes in the summer when the days have exceeded 120 degrees and the plants are still living just fine.

Are you suggesting that food can be cooked and still be alive?

If any of this is true than clearly the sun was the first way man cooked his food and not by fire. Now you've got me rethinking this whole raw vs cooked foods thing. I'm sure most people are familiar with the saying "It's hot enough to fry eggs on the sidewalk". Prehistoric man did not have sidewalks but surely some unlucky bird must have had one of their eggs fall on to a rock on a hot summer day. If not the bird themselves...

General Discussion / Discussion: At what temperature is food still raw?
« on: September 27, 2018, 06:40:17 am »
I've read that food is still considered raw as long as it is not cooked over anywhere between 105 degrees F. and as high as 118 degrees depending on who you ask. Since I got my new sous vide cooker I can control the temperature within increments of half a degree. Raw salmon skin is like eating leather but today's salmon skin at 109.9 degrees F. was tender and chewable.  Though the beef looked raw it was nice not to eat something cold and stiff right out of the refrigerator.

I know I can set beef out in the sun and it will cook much hotter than the 109.9 degrees from my sous vide cooker and there's no doubt in my mind that our paleo ancestors ate meat that was "cooked from the sun"

What temperature do you guys think that food is cooked at and how is it degraded from those temperatures?

On a side note I also feel that food soaked in vinegar or lemon juice seems cooked. What do you guys think about that? I don't know why but I really like the sour taste of it that way. I often wonder if I crave meat soaked in lemon juice as a form of substitution from when meat gets rotten because it develops a similar sour taste. Though in my mind spoiled meat is something to avoid. Maybe it's something I need to get over but I been eating raw for several years and still I have an aversion to spoiled meat...

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