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Messages - donrad

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General Discussion / Re: bacteria strains?
« on: January 13, 2009, 06:38:47 am »
Fresh raw meat from organically raised free range animals eating a natural diet should not have any bacteria. The animal's immune system will destroy bacteria.

If the animal is raised in factory like conditions (as almost all meat sold in grocery stores in the U.S. is); and slaughtered on assembly lines - there is a good probability the animal will be raised on antibiotics and may be infected with all kinds of bacteria. This is why they have to keep it refrigerated and sell it quickly.

Please use caution. Buy organic, freeze it, dry it, consume it quickly before the bacteria multiply, or cook it to 160 degrees.

Our Paleo ancestors did not have refrigeration or cooking utensils. They probably either consumed it quickly or dried it. I'm not sure, but I think they may have smoked dried it. Smoke is a preservative and fly repellent. All they had to do all day is hunt and gather and they were as intelligent as we are today (if not more so), so I am quite sure they were very good at it.

I personally like to dry my meat using a good quality forced air dehydrator with the thermostat set at 95 degrees. It preserves well and if dried completely and I think it preserves the nutrients quit well. Cold smoking adds great flavor, the enjoyment of which most people seem to have inherited.


General Discussion / Re: Not enough fat on grassfed beef?
« on: December 17, 2008, 02:10:29 pm »
OK, so I read through this subject and go to the local natural foods store where they just started selling grass fed grass finished beef. They have either frozen ground beef or the primal cuts fresh. The primal cuts are the tenderloin, ribeye, and New York strip. So I select a great looking ribeye about one inch thick with lots of fat marbling. It was expensive, but comparable to eating out in a restaurant.

I let the steak warm up to about 50 degrees F and tried to eat it. It was terrible! All the fat marbling that on a BBQ grill would have melted and oozed into the meat was tough stringy grizzle. It got stuck between my teeth and gagged me. I could not eat it.

I have eaten rump roasts raw, with flecks of fat in the meat and found it very enjoyable. It takes a lot of time to chew but is delicious, especially with some home brewed chili sauce. I like to watch TV or read a book and chew on the meat for an hour or two. However this fatty steak was unpalatable.

I put the steak in a roaster oven at 95 degrees for 8 hours. It came out absolutely fantastic. Juicy and delicious.

If our Paleo ancestors were in a warm climate and they caught one or more large animals would they have butchered them and carried the remains back to home camp where they may have remained for days while they fed the clan? If they had fire would they have kept the meat in the smoke to keep the flies away? I know that the Pacific Northwest in the U.S. indigenous people did this for thousands of years with Salmon.

I don't know how, but could someone start a subject on what the effects of letting meat stay at body temperature (<100 degrees) and perhaps drying would have on the nutritional value. Is smoke good or bad?

I am new to the raw meat part of the Paleo diet. I find that the meat is so much tastier for me and easier to chew if I hold it at about 100 degrees for a while, even to the point where it becomes dry. I also like the smoky flavor.

Today I was at a museum that displayed Paleo stone tools. Those who compare us to lions, tiger, wolves and bears I think are missing the point. We did not use our mouths to bring down and consume animals, we use our brains and tools. There would have been a competitive advantage to securing the meat at a home site in a calm manner..

General Discussion / Re: Problems eating frozen meat?
« on: December 11, 2008, 10:21:41 pm »
During the freezing and thawing process it is true that some cell membranes are broken. The rupturing of the cell membranes does not destroy the fatty acid or amino acid molecules.

During digestion our body's goal is to break everything down into fatty acid and amino acid molecules, and small sugar molecules.The freeze/thaw may actually help. It starts in the mouth with chewing and mixing.  Salivary enzymes are designed to split starch, not for meat digestion. In the stomach the food is churned into chyle and acted on by acids and enzymes. The small intestines add more acids and enzymes. The food is then absorbed at a molecular level further down the line.

I am not aware of any destruction on the molecular level other than oxidation over time. Lower temperatures reduce the oxidation rate. Removing the oxygen does the same thing. So does removing moisture.

Bottom line is that freezing, drying, or grinding meat should not be a problem if oxidation is controlled. I highly recommend a vacuum sealer. Meat, fruits, vegetables, and oils maintain their nutritional integrity much longer when sealed in bags, bottles, jars, or canisters; and are refrigerated or frozen. I recommend a high-end FoodSaver. If you like ground meat do it just prior to consumption, food processors do a pretty good job but it takes some trial and error.

It is interesting that the average length of the small intestine of people who evolved near the equator (Africa) is twice as long as the averge of those who  evolved in more northerly colder climates (European). The longer intestine is better adapted to vegetable digestion while the shorter is better adapted to meat. As a species however, we still have a medium length intestine indicating we are omnivores.

General Discussion / Re: Not enough fat on grassfed beef?
« on: December 11, 2008, 12:18:18 pm »
After my last reply I started reading "The Inflammation Syndrome" by Jack Challem. Coincidentally the subject was fatty acids and grass fed beef. Here are a few tidbits, and I quote:

   In human diets the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids has historically been in the range of 1:1 to 2:1. Today, ...estimated 20:1 to 30:1.

   Omega-6 fatty acids are pro-inflammatory, while omega-3 are anti-inflammatory.

   For example, grass-fed cattle have six to eight times less fat than do grain-fed cattle. In addition, beef from grass-fed cattle has two to six times more omega-3 fatty acids, ....

   Based on an analysis of 829 plants, wild plant foods contain an average of 24 percent fat, ....

   Paleolithic peoples and later hunter-gatherer societies did not consume any oils or fats unless they were part of meat or vegetables.


General Discussion / Re: Not enough fat on grassfed beef?
« on: December 11, 2008, 08:59:06 am »
I add extra virgin olive oil and cold-pressed high-lignan flax oil that I get from Bionatures over the internet. I also take fish oil capsules. The difference in the fat of grain finished beef and grass finished beef is the omega 3 to omega 6 ratio. Just like eating grains gives people bad fat it also gives cows bad fat.

The difference between a fat and an oil is that one is solid and the other liquid at room temperature.

Salmon has a high content of good fats. Wild caught salmon is very cost effective, even here in the Midwest. Avocados and nuts have a lot of good oil also.

I just started reading a book titled "Know Your Fats: The Complete Primer for Understanding the Nutrition of Fats, Oils, and Cholesterol" by Mary Enig, Ph.D. I'm only on chapter one, but it is a great read. She examines the fat in human diets in antiquity before heart disease, diabetes and cancer were a problem. She states "fat intake in healthy groups can vary from 10 perrcent of the calories (desert nomads) to 50 percent or more of the calories (e.g., Greenland Eskimos)."

General Discussion / Re: Eating Raw Animal Foods in public
« on: December 10, 2008, 03:16:20 am »
In my local most humans do settle for what is READILY available and what has been marketed to them by people with a profit motive. As I look around they are all suffering terrible diseases and dying slow and painful deaths. Children are born deformed and suffer behavioral defects.

The medical community just administers drugs and operations to help relieve some of the suffering but does not address the cause.

We are out of sync with our evolutionary natural environment.

Where I live I can lessen my suffering by searching out organic unpasteurized food producers and eating raw. A lot of unrepairable damage has already been done to me and my children. I don't think the people around me can be saved.

All I can do is keep trying to carry the message of being in harmony with nature based on our evolutionary heritage.

I love this forum because it helps people searching for the natural truth


General Discussion / Re: Eating Raw Animal Foods in public
« on: December 09, 2008, 08:31:23 am »
The books I have been reading lately on the subject have convinced me that we are not herbivores or carnivores, but omnivores. They base this on various anatomical features of our bodies, fossil records, and comparisons to recent hunter-gatherer societies. The author of the book titled "The Paleo Diet" thought that our cave-man ancestors grazed throughout the day and as a group hunted down a large animal in the cool of the evening and gorged on meat before going to sleep. Sounds good to me. Three balanced meals is a modern necessity; eat before work, take a lunch break, and eat after work. Our Paleo ancestors did not have "jobs". They just hung around all day eating and procreating. I could go for that. Beam me back Scottie.

The reason for hunting down a large Wolly Mamoth is that it is way more efficient than chasing down chickens and rabbits. There is a lot of evidence that we took the leftover meat and smoked it by the fire to keep the flies away and then let it dry in the sun. BBQ. Preserved meat for days. It is no coincidence that men like to cook outside. I have three different types of smokers and have learned how to rig them to "cold smoke", so as to minimize the effect on the meat. I just want to remove the water content, preserve, and add flavor.

I am still researching this and would like to hear your thoughts.

General Discussion / Re: Eating Raw Animal Foods in public
« on: December 08, 2008, 11:04:27 pm »
I like to snack on raw fruits, vegetables, and meat throughout the day instead of three big meals. It keeps my energy level and mood constant and is more in line with how our paleo ancestors ate.

To not look weird I dry meat, poultry, and fish at a low temperature (100 degrees) with a spice rub (no salt) in a dehydrator. It is then cut into bite-size chunks that look like jerky. I keep it in a little sandwich bag and whenever I feel the hungry I just pop a piece in my mouth. I enjoy chewing the gristle like gum.

The meat will get moldy if not refrigerated, so take care if you try this. I am uncertain about the health risks of the mold.

I have offered my "jerky" to co-workers who all love it, however if I tell them it is raw meat they freak out; life is strange.

General Discussion / Re: high meat
« on: December 08, 2008, 02:39:42 pm »
I have been in the restaurant business on and off since about 1965. Somewhere in a textbook I read that the way to age beef is called "dry aging". The large cuts of meat are kept in a cool room with low humidity on racks to give good air circulation. The meat shrinks considerably so the resulting steaks are expensive.  I am thinking they were aged for about a week but can't remember exactly. Natural enzymes in the meat tenderize it. Steaks were cut after aging.

Mold was not considered to be a problem. Green slime is definitely bad. If an expensive steak developed a green smelly layer we would wash it in vinegar before cooking, but the quality was reduced.

The meat develops a firm dry(er) very tender texture and is excellent cooked rare (or raw). I like to warm my meat to body temperature before eating it.

I wonder how small they make dehumidifiers.

I plan to research this more.

Info / News Items / Announcements / Re: Grass Fed Beef
« on: November 25, 2008, 09:15:49 am »
Thank you, yes I agree.

I moved to the country so that I could raise land animals in their natural habitat for my children. It was very difficult and I only survived for about ten years. This lifestyle is not part of our civilized society.

Plant based omega 3's are hard for the body but only if other nutrients are not available like vitamin c and the B vitamins and minerals. If you are otherwise eating a good diet of raw fruits and vegetables, these are in abundant supply in your body.
PLANT BASED OMEGA 3 IS NOT BAD! It is just not as good as what we can't readily get. Flax seed and oil just gives you a huge ready supply of what you can use. This is great.

I am now a city dweller, but not by choice. In the urban settings is hard to get access to land animals in their natural habitat. If you can it costs triple grocery store prices of feed lot beef. Getting natural meat is well worth it, but hard to get. One has to go directly to the small scale consciousnesses organic producer. We should all try to do this.

In reality it would be imposable for all people of the world to have a Paleo diet right now. It saddens me to see so much suffering because of our crazy civilized nutrition and the resulting diseases. All we can do is try to make it better.

Thanks for this forum!   

Info / News Items / Announcements / Re: Grass Fed Beef
« on: November 24, 2008, 09:12:22 pm »
What is wrong with cold pressed un-oxidized flax oil? I seem to have missed something.

Info / News Items / Announcements / Re: Grass Fed Beef
« on: November 24, 2008, 07:40:18 pm »
I am from the Midwest United States where a lot of cattle are "finished" on grain and agricultural byproducts in feedlots. One of the problems is that the cattle are herded into pens and they stand on their shit for months not moving while they are fed grains which are as unnatural to their digestive systems as they are to ours. They have to be given antibiotics to keep them alive. The stench of the feedlots can be smelled for miles and is almost unbearable. The reason this is done is an economic one, the rancher or beef processor can get the meat to market faster and at less cost.

The cattle's muscles get soft and marbled with fat just like ours do when we lay on the couch all day eating doughnuts and potato chips. Another problem is that the fat they put on is the wrong kind for us. The fatty acids are deadly to our unaccustomed bodies. The same is true for chicken (and their eggs) and pork and any other animal.

We need to have some fat with the animal protein we eat or it can be toxic. But is needs to be good fats like those found in grass-fed animals and seafood (fish oil). When I eat raw meat I add flax seed oil for its high omega 3 content and take fish oil supplements. Please educate yourself about good fats versus bad fats.

Feedlot cattle also have a high danger of bacterial infections, which is why the beef industry has to make frequent recalls. Chickens and pigs are also raised in "meat factories" around here where they are crammed into buildings and fed grains, never seeing the light of day. The antibiotics they must be fed are producing resistant bacteria and viruses. When these make a jump to humans there will be a worldwide pandemic.

An interesting side note is that Europeans evolved with domesticated animals (recently) and became resistant to their diseases. When the Europeans colonized the New World they brought the diseases which killed off most of the indigenous human inhabitants.   

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