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Messages - donrad

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General Discussion / Re: My jerky often tastes off
« on: December 03, 2010, 03:50:35 am »

Have you tried other meats? If so how did they work out?

I have done a lot of shell-on shrimp. I read that our ancient ancestors ate insects and shrimp are a close relative. I mix the shrimp with spices and half-dry it. I eat everything but the tail. I have plans to cold smoke and dry salmon. When killing a large game animal, drying is the most logical and natural choice.

This is how Native Americans preserved buffalo and salmon. Pemmican translates to "travel food" which was eaten while moving to new hunting grounds or to better weather.  It is interesting that the native Americans would not eat a female buffalo in the spring because they did not have enough fat. A high protein low fat diet will make you sick.

General Discussion / Re: how to salt cure and preserve raw meat?
« on: December 03, 2010, 03:37:17 am »
It has been about 17 days now and all the meat is still great. It is nice to be able to just slice off some meat for a meal anytime. Tastes very good with slices of my home-made raw milk cheese. Cold cuts. I discovered that the cheese I make every week responds to the air drying & salting preservation also. I can leave it out on the table for weeks no problem, if I put it in a container in the frig it get moldy.

Things went so well I started another batch. This time I used a 5.5 pound top sirloin roast and a couple of two pound chuck arm roasts. The top sirloin is a fairly tender cut of beef while the arm roasts are one of the toughest cuts. Conventional wisdom says the arm roasts can only be made edible by moist heat cooking for a couple of hours. Not true. The natural enzymes pre-digest the meat for me so my own enzymes can take it easy. There are scientific studies out there that claim when our own enzymes get used up or worn out is when we start to die. I'm 59 and feeling younger and stronger every day. Never get sick.

The only thing that is a problem is that the beef is not grass finished. However it is fresh cut and not the "up to 12% salt water added to enhance tenderness and flavor" crap that most supermarkets sell. I will move to grass finished beef as finances permit.

I used to take dried beef to work for my lunch, but now I cut off a thick slice of dry aged meat and cut into bite size pieces. It stays good in a baggie for at least 8 hours.

In the United States pork can still go from farmer to consumer without government inspection. There is a bill in congress to change that right now.

I have seen small scale hog farms which were pretty bad. Very very bad.

The new law will make the food safer but make it harder for consumers to buy directly from farmers. I favor being able to buy direct without restrictions but I like to inspect the farm before I buy. Hogs raised naturally on pasture still eat a lot of garbage and manure even on a clean farm.

All of the supermarket pork today is raised on concrete floors where the waste is washed away into lagoons (in the U.S.). They are fed corn and soybeans on conveyor belts. The hogs never see the light of day. The meat quality is bad but the chance of parasites is very very low.

I raised hogs on a farm naturally. I will not eat raw pork. I will not buy pork from a supermarket and eat it cooked or raw.

General Discussion / Re: My jerky often tastes off
« on: November 29, 2010, 08:44:22 am »
I use two Nesco fd-75pr dehydrators with extra trays. A Google search brought up a lot of merchants with prices of from $47 used on Ebay to $70.

The ground beef is beef ground with fat attached. Depending on the cut of meat it can range from 30% to 10% fat in the stores. My butcher mixes the heart in with it when he grinds it. The higher the fat content the less the cost. In feedlot finished cattle the fat is bad for you so order lean. If it is grass finished beef the fat is good for you so order the less expensive fatty grind. Heart is very lean so it brings down the fat %. I tried coarse grinding my own with a lot of extra fat once but did not like it much.

My last purchase I paid $2.49 per pound for grass finished ground beef and $1.00 per pound for the heart. I am in the Kansas City, Kansas area. I have to drive out to a small town in the country to get to this butcher so I stock up and do a big batch of jerky. I also eat the ground beef just warmed up with salt & pepper, tastes great.

The jerky will last a year or longer if you dry it all the way to crunchy. I dry mine about half way while it is still soft and store it in the freezer, removing a day's supply at a time. In the freezer it will last a year also. If I vacuum sealed it, it would go a couple of years or more. If I don't dry it completely and store it in the frig it will get moldy. The mold is probably not bad and it does not smell bad.

For the jerkey gun, look on Amazon for: Metalware Open Country Beef Jerky Works Kit. It is also branded Nesco. Sells for about $15. I tried a similar larger plastic product once which did not work so I trashed it. I see on Amazon they have a big metal one for about $50 that looks interesting. I also noticed Amazon has 3 different models of Nesco dehydrators. Nice.

General Discussion / Re: My jerky often tastes off
« on: November 28, 2010, 10:57:33 pm »
I'v been making jerkey for over 40 years. I started by pinning strips of meat on the clothesline in Arizona. That only works in a hot dry climate.

Start with large chunks of meat, the fat content doesn't matter much. The interior on the large roast will not have been exposed to knives & air and will have the natural antibiotics of the animal intact. A rump or round roast is perfect.

Invest in a dehydrator that has a thermostat and fan. The cost spread out over a lot of years and tons of meat is well worth it. You can now set the temp at 100 degrees which will not harm the enzymes and vitamins. The fan will help dry the meat quickly before spoilage set in. Slice the meat thin.

Don't soak the meat in marinade or saltwater like some recipes suggest but do sprinkle with salt and pepper and your favorite spices. The salt and spices help control spoilage. The marinades draw out flavor and nutrients.

If you dry the meat to a crisp it will last forever without spoiling, however it is not very palatable. I dry my meat half way and store in the freezer, taking out a day's supply as needed. Chewy tender tasty.

I now use run of the mill ground beef with ground heart added. I can mix in spices and some dried fruit. You can buy these "jerkey guns" that squeeze the ground meat out in different shapes. This is cost effective and quick. I now have handy raw meat for snacks and meals while away from home; and it is socially acceptable.

If you do some web research and learn to cold smoke the meat is adds a lot of flavor and also retards spoilage.

Nature naturally nutritously nurturing nice nerds

They did not name breeds, I assume it would be all the beef breeds like Angus. I have never seen yellow fat meat in a grocery store. The only time I saw it was from a dairy cow.

I'm not an expert on this but I do know they can rapidly breed animals for all kinds of characteristics like meat color, flavor, fat content, muscle size, etc. They pull breeding stock from all over the world. Artificial insemination makes it easy.

The butterfat in the raw milk I get every week gets more yellow in the spring as the cows start eating the fresh green grass. In the winter when they are on hay it turns white. This is because of the omega3 fatty acids. Someone in here said spring butter sells for twice as much in Europe. It brings a premium price here also.

Meat can be sold as grass fed/finished and still be fed hay. I suppose meat animals raised and finished in the south or coastal areas where they have pasture year-round would have more yellow fat.

I read in "The Stockman GrassFarmer" magazine that they bred cattle to have white fat to satisfy the demands of the housewife and restaurants. I was in the restaurant business, most people eat with their eyes. Almost all cattle breeds today were also bred to thrive in feedlots.

There is a rapidly growing industry going on right now to redevelop cattle, goats, and sheep that thrive on grass only. As the demand grows the supply will also.

General Discussion / Re: how to salt cure and preserve raw meat?
« on: November 27, 2010, 08:48:07 am »
It has been six days now. All 3 roasts doing great, each one getting more tender and flavorful as time goes on. No off flavors, odors or colors have developed.
The meat is still a dark maroon/brown color. I like the rump roast the best, it has some fat but not so much as to be overwhelming. The roast in the frig at 50 degrees with the fan is drying out more than the others which I like, however they are all still very moist inside. I put the roast at room temperature in front of a fan for a day to firm it up. The dryer meat has a better chew. I can put the sliced meat in a baggie and snack on it throughout the day.

Keeping all surfaces dry is the key here I think. Even the cut surface stays nice.  If I put it in a bag or on a plate it would get moist, slimey, discolor, and smell bad.

How long will it last? To be continued......

Cow meat does not contain parasites harmful to humans, if any. Pork may contain parasites because pigs dig in the earth and eat anything and everything. Cows just eat grass and leghumes.

Not too many people eat raw pork.

Published cookbooks that have raw meat recipes will always say to freeze it for 14 days because of legal liability issues. I purchased some raw oysters yesterday and like a lot of people eat them raw. The store had to have a sighn by the oysters "We reccommend that all oysters be thoroughly cooked." Legal liability issues. Damn lawyers.

Happy raw Thanksgiving

General Discussion / Re: High meat risks?
« on: November 24, 2010, 10:03:27 am »
This is a quotation from the book "Food Enzymes for Health and Longevity": "Fish are put into a hole and covered with grass and earth and the mass is allowed to ferment and decay. I learned, to my utter astonishment , they would eat those rotten poisonous foods and thrive on them. Lest the reader might think that the cooking process would destroy the poisons in their vitiated foods, I wish to say that in only a few instances did they cook their food. The usual customary method was to devour it raw." Written by Garber who lived a number of years among the Eskimos in northern Alaska.

Food for thought.

General Discussion / Re: High meat risks?
« on: November 24, 2010, 08:32:10 am »
My fermented vegetables are less dangerous than high meat because I control the fermentation with salt, temperature, and the introduction of beneficial bacteria starter. Anything that gets stinky or slimy gets composted. Everyone I have given some of my kimchi to gives it back to me, except for Koreans. I have a Germanic heritage and love kraut. Most people think it stinks. I drink the juice. One man's ceiling is another man's floor.

I can remember reading about comparable lengths of intestines in relation to adapted nutrition. A dog or wolf intestine is short and they have a very acidic stomach. Anything they eat get zapped with acid and is soon expelled. Humans have a very long intestine and is a very hospitable environment for bacteria growth. Vultures head's are bald so they can stick their heads in a rotting carcass and it does not stay with them.

It may be an evolutionary thing as to why high meat stinks and tastes bad to most people. Our ancestors who avoided it were more likely to have children who survived than those ate it and fed it to their kids. In evolutionary terms even a 2% advantage over a million years adds up. However I concede that is may be highly beneficial to individual people.

Not all snakes are bad, some are beneficial. But if you live in a jungle and are afraid of snakes you are more likely to survive.

General Discussion / Re: High meat risks?
« on: November 24, 2010, 03:38:52 am »
There are more bacteria in a healthy human digestive system than there are cells in the whole body. If we have been eating the right foods these are beneficial bacteria and yeasts that help us digest our food and provide us with vitamins and enzymes necessary for survival. If these bacteria are destroyed because we don't eat live foods, take antibiotics, or drink excessive amounts of alcohol. The white film on the surface of organic fruit is beneficial bacteria. Cabbage plants have a lot of the good bacteria which quickly multiply to make sauerkraut. Raw milk from grassfed cows has good bacteria which will turn the milk to yoghurt if left at room temperature.

Unfortunately bad bacteria do exhist. They produce toxic substances that can make people sick and even die. Those who are most at risk are young children, the eldery, and people with comprimised immune systems like the person who started this discussion. A strong person with good nutrition and healthy digestive flaura would probably have temporary digestive distress and soon recover stronger than before. Humans have good immune systems that can learn, adapt and build defences.

If we lived somewhere where there were no tourists and we hunted animals in the local environment and we butchered them ouselves we probably would not get sick even if the meat was infected. However in our modern society the meat we acquire is raised anywhere in the world, under who know what kind of filthy conditions, butchered in possibly filthy disease ridden processing factories, and cut and handeled many times by possibly diseased people. There is a hugh risk here if we let the meat rot with whatever it got from wherever. Kind of like Russian roulette.

Our ancestors learned this lesson a long long time ago and took steps to control the spoilage of their meat. They used salting, drying, cooling, smoking, and by introducing lots of good bacteria before the bad ones can get established.

You may benefit from consuming high meat. Your neighbor may end up in the hospital. We constantly hear about meat recalls that are causing death and disease. Please use caution. I personally avoid rotted meat and get my good bacteria and yeast from home-made raw milk yoghurt and home-made fermented garden vegetables and vinegar at every meal.

Best of luck to you and have a happy raw Thanksgiving.

General Discussion / Re: High meat risks?
« on: November 23, 2010, 09:55:01 am »
My research indicates that early humans had large brains, were fit and strong, and because they learned how to make tools and hunting implements they had easy pickings of plentiful game animals. The animals were free to roam on lush grasslands and went where the weather was good so they were fat and plentiful. There was also abundant seafood and bird flocks so large they blackened the sky. We were so successful that we soon spread throughout the earth. It was not until we recently became civilized and domesticated plants and animals that things got tough because of overpopulation and depletion of the environment.

There is absolutely no evidence that I have found that early humans were scavengers and had to eat rotting meat. If that was the case rotting meat would not smell, look, and taste bad to us. We would have evolved more like vultures and dogs who enjoy it.

I think we were living in a Garden of Eden, not a sewer.

General Discussion / Re: how to salt cure and preserve raw meat?
« on: November 23, 2010, 09:33:07 am »
I am at the start of a test run right now. My premise is that uncut meat has the natural antibiotics of the animal keeping the bacteria down. The cut surface of the meat is where spoilage occurs. The natural enzymes in the meat will act as a tenderizer. Bacteria will not thrive in a salty or dry environment. Black pepper is an antibiotic.

I took 3 roasts, a 4 pound lean rump roast with a 1/8 inch layer of fat on one side, and 2 usda choice chuck roasts each a little over 2 pounds.

I rubbed each roast with fine sea salt, as much as it would take. I then rubbed as much fine ground black pepper into the meat as it would hold.

I put all 3 roasts on racks and put them in front of a fan to hasten initial drying. After 12 hours all the roasts had a dry crust on the outside. Slicing into all 3 roasts produced a dark maroon meat that was very tender, had a nice firm texture, and the taste was excellent (the salt and pepper added a lot to the flavor). The fatty areas of the chuck roasts were tough and grizzly. After eating about 8 ounces of thin sliced meat I felt really good.

On the second day (today) I put the rump roast in a refrigerator that has no internal fan and is set to 38 degrees. One chuck roast went into a refrigerator set at 50 degrees with a small circulating fan. The other chuck roast is sitting out at room temperature of about 65 degrees F. The cut cut surface of all 3 roasts was left open and quickly dried to a dark red. All the roasts are on racks and uncovered.

I plan to sample them daily for 2 or 3 weeks. So far very good results. 

General Discussion / Re: High meat risks?
« on: November 22, 2010, 08:28:31 pm »
Eating high meat for a bad digestion is like hitting your head with a hammer to stop a headache.

In all lifestyle philosophies like this forum there will be weird extremest fanatics like the ones who promote eating rotting meat by bolting it down so you don't gag. There is no telling how many people they have killed because dead people don't make posts.

Please trust you senses. If it stinks and tastes bad, for goodness sake don't eat it.

If you have digestion problems learn about probiotic and symbiotic nutrition. Rotting meat has potential deadly pathogens. There are ways to age and tenderize meat safely that improve its taste, smell, and nutritional value.

Enjoy the ride.

Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: Can you recommend some books?
« on: November 15, 2010, 01:02:54 pm »
I reccommend the book "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon. Transition by gradually ignoring the grain and bean recipes and info. A lot of good information here.

Also read "Pottinger's Cats". It illustrates the immense importance of evolutionary adapted nutrition.

Coldwater species from far Northern waters have firmer flesh. Deepwater species are preferred to costal species because of less polution. The ones you listed are excellent raw.

I started out trying to mimic sushimi, but now like it with a good mustard.

Raw Weston Price / Re: Anti Weston Pricer's are hypocrites
« on: October 25, 2010, 11:00:49 am »
The WP study was good in that it attempted to cronicle civilizations that were becoming extinct and had no contact with VERY RECENT civilizations. These people were still civilized and suffered because of the human modified food they ate. If WP could have studied  back about 3,000 years instead of a few hundred it would have been much better.

Hot Topics / Re: Salami and cured meats.....raw?
« on: October 25, 2010, 06:54:01 am »
If you do an search for sausage curing you will find 3 books. They are all pretty technical because if you start giving advice on how to cold cure meat there is a legal liability factor. I am reading one of the books and it goes into excruciating detail with all kinds of graphs and charts.

Basically the fermentation raises the ph level. This is combined with salt, smoking, drying and low temperature to ensure product safety. Nitrate helps but is optional.

This was the norm for preservig meat in the fall before refrigeration. Common in Europe. The U.S. has too many regulations I think. There are sources for imported sausage.

Raw Weston Price / Re: Where does he mention homosexuality
« on: October 18, 2010, 12:59:20 pm »
The "Pottingers Cats" book described how the processed food diet caused a decrease in secondary sex charisteristics in the cats. The males hung out with the males and had no interest in the femails. Normal sexual appearance traits disappeared. The femails could no longer bear children. The book even makes comparisons to humans and shows pictures of young adults from behind. Doctors could not tell the difference between the boys and girls. The girls are losing their hip structure necessary for childbirth.

Price went into detail about how easy it was for indigenous women to give birth in the US Pacific Northwest. In the same populations on western diets the women now need hospitalization and the death rate has increased.

Hot Topics / Re: is this a raw food forum or a raw meat forum
« on: October 18, 2010, 08:55:38 am »
If you pick up old National Geographic magazines around the 1920 or 1930 era whenever the expeditions encounter people eating raw animal foods in primitive areas they describe it in great detail and take lots of pictures. It was an everyday occurance for the indigenous people but strange & unique for the civilized explorers.

The eskimos were really good at the raw food thing. Birds, eggs, seafood, marine mammals. It's hard to start a fire and cook things on a glacier.

General Discussion / Re: Distilled Water
« on: October 17, 2010, 08:44:56 am »
First I put in a reverse osmosis (RO) filtering system which gets pretty close to distilled. I even have a meter that shows total disolved solids (TDS). RO water like distilled does not contain any minerals however. We need minerals for strong teeth and bones, among other things. So I took mineral supplements.

The Brita filters and others like them use activated carbon to filter the water. This removes foul taste, organic compounds, and odor but leaves the minerals. In theory.

After researching and experimenting I ended up with a whole house activated carbon filter that uses standard filter cartridges. You can get these at hardware stores and even Wal-Mart. I hooked the whole-house filter up to a single water tap for just drinking water. This allows the water to slowly go through the filter and so it takes a long time to use up the carbon's filtering capacity and is more effective. This system is way less costly than Brita and way more effective. It is also what most bottled water companies use.

I bought some beverages in glass bottles and re-use these for my daily water supply while out and about. Makes nice tea too. The minerals give the water a pleasing taste.

General Discussion / Re: A cool way to quick-dry-age meat!
« on: October 17, 2010, 07:18:59 am »
I like your invention!

It's a problem I have struggled with for a long time. How do I warm the meat up while keeping it raw when I am hungry and want it NOW.

How do you others cope with this?

I suppose I could plan ahead but then.....that takes a high level of inteligence.

Hot Topics / Re: is this a raw food forum or a raw meat forum
« on: October 16, 2010, 07:25:01 am »
Grains have been highly modified by man in the last few thousand years. Not so much with roots. I enjoy a lot of raw beets, turnips, carrots, radish, etc. Don't think they are altered much by cooking but still like them better raw.

This forum seems to emphasize the RAF raw animal food aspect and push omnivor to the back burner.

General Discussion / Re: meat storage ideas?
« on: October 15, 2010, 10:20:05 am »
I have been using my containers for a couple of years without problems. Don't see how they could explode as the have a vacuum inside. Implode possibly? I have 3 different brands all working good. They are clear plastic containers in many different sizes with lids that have rubber gaskets. A vacuum hose is hooked up to a one way valve on top which draws the air out when hooked to a vacuum pump.

Yes, I recommend experimenting with storing the meat at 50 degrees. That is also the optimal temp for red wine and cheese.

I'm inspired to get back to a plan I had researched about a year ago to construct a meat storage frig. The problem is that you can not maintain 50 degrees in them. The solution is to use a line voltage thermostat hooked up externally to the electrical cord with the probe stuck inside. Meat can be stored on racks as well as hung. Any old frig works fine. Better to have one with a single door so the freezer space is not lost. I thought about using an upright freezer but would have to rig a fan inside because they usually don't have fans. If kept outside in winter I would need a heat/cool thermostat with a heater of some sort.

It would be great to get a huge chunk of meat and take wafer thin slices off as needed. They do this in Europe and have a name for it.

Anyone done this sort of setup?

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