Author Topic: The opposition.  (Read 38338 times)

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #100 on: October 17, 2015, 08:17:33 am »
Jessica, the fact that you've randomly unfriended me and changed your Facebook name 3 DIFFERENT TIMES does not speak to your stability. I realize you are probably going through a lot of spiritual stuff, maybe, and are doing that as part of some renewal process. However, it's hard to relate to someone who is so changeable, and to such an extreme degree. I've given up on it, quite frankly, and am hoping you'll just grow out of all of it, the mood issues, the "spiritual" drama, etc.. You don't have to rant and rave about every little thing in life. You can be sensitive, compassionate, AND calm. I'm certainly the pot calling the kettle black on this, and I know that. LOL

I'm just hoping you will one day realize that it's possible to be plenty enlightened without eating a healthy diet, spending time in nature, or taking shrooms. I've done plenty of all of that (not the shrooms, but whatever), and, while it helped me be calm and centered, it didn't make me a better person or more enlightened.

You may hate the technocrats, but they are, in most/many cases, aiming for the same kind of ecstatic Oneness with the All that you are. They are getting there via a different path, that's all. In my opinion, anyway.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #101 on: October 17, 2015, 08:42:38 am »
Honestly, Jessica, it looks like you're still suffering from that mood disorder you claim to have recovered from.  I'm sad for you, I know that must be hard.

I do not see why character assassination is warranted here. 

You owe her an apology.

Jessica stated completely logical arguments.

Please stick to civilized logical discussions.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #102 on: October 17, 2015, 08:53:05 am »
I'd like to hear Jessica's thoughts first. Maybe she wants to offer an apology for her unfriending me 3 times on Facebook with no explanation. Was it because of stuff going on with her that had nothing to do with me? I would guess so. That doesn't mean that OTHER people that she did that to didn't feel hurt or rejected, although it did me no great emotional damage.

Offline jessica

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #103 on: October 17, 2015, 09:01:05 am »
So you judge people's emotional stability by the way they participate on Facebook?  Are you in junior high?  That is so ridiculously laughable.  If youd like I can explain the name change, it's purely aesthetic.  I have Unfriended, for the most part, people I don't know in real life.  Perhaps I added you mistakenly, I hope that you do not take social media so seriously that you would take offense to being unfriended.  Perhaps it would also help if I explained how I use social media and the Internet, since folks seem to take it so seriously as to get photoshoots and such to express of uphold whatever image they are trying to project.  I mostly use Facebook to communicate through extremely limited photo sharing with my mom, I am also interested in events in my community and anything educational from organization that I respect.  I don't use it to share much of my personal life or keep in contact with a lot of people because I am too busy livin and enjoying the company of those who do not give two shits about documenting every small occurance and being in communication with otherwise.  It's kind of bizarre to me how much importance people give to their internet personas and how muh minutia people share.  Oh well.  As for my participation in this message board, it's always been a place I have come for trouble shooting or to keep myself accountable and it's been super patchy use. 

If my fault is being honest about my struggle with "mental health" so be it.  If i had ever cared to explain the source, i am sure you would realize i have been through more than most people, and come from some extremely difficult stock.  I shared because I knew, always, that being "mentally ill" was something happening TO ME, whether it be due to diet, social, culutral or physical environment, and it was something I could find a solution to.  I investigated and spoke about it because I refuse to become disempowered by other people's narrow minded ideas about emotional issues, their source and what it takes to deal wih them.

Sure it would be great if I had posted all my success and growth, it would probably have been extremely helpful to others.  I don't seem to have much time or attention span for sharin those things, especially I am busy sharing with and enjoying my family and community in real life.

It's pretty obvious you haven't ever taken mushrooms. If people can be "enlightened" without eating healthfully or appreciating nature, then they are attund to ill health and what... What do we have without nature?  We don't even have ourselves.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 09:34:06 am by jessica »

Offline jessica

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #104 on: October 17, 2015, 09:08:30 am »
Ps CK..  I don't even know/remember your real name.  If that is offensive to you you really need to consider what stake you are putting in your Internet relations.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #105 on: October 17, 2015, 09:35:40 am »
Ps CK..  I don't even know/remember your real name.  If that is offensive to you you really need to consider what stake you are putting in your Internet relations.

It's not offensive in any real sense. We were discussing the theoretical harm I had caused you by pointing out your volatility, and so I brought up the theoretical harm you had done me by unfriending me twice with no explanation. I'm not trying to insult you.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #106 on: October 17, 2015, 11:51:23 am »
CK does have one valid point in that we should not be scared of technology all the time and that one can use it in a beneficial way(IF one is an enlightened type like Salatin etc.). On the other hand, I strongly suspect that most of us, myself included, have failed miserably in the past as regards curing their own health problems using modern technology, and indeed many of us have had their health-problems increase dramatically as a direct result of the use of modern technology.
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #107 on: October 17, 2015, 10:10:18 pm »
I was impressed by Aldous huxleys vision of a balanced and humane aplication of technology in "Island"

The book started with a quote, "In framing an ideal we may assume what we wish, but should avoid"
impossibilities. ARISTOTLE...afterward there was a call out for "attention" to the "here and now" and for "compasion"

It went on to tell a story about a people who learned to use, control and harness technology in a way that was focused upon human happyness and not technological progress for progress sake. Its full of jems which I find exremly relevent to this discussion.

"We" said Dr. Robert, "have always chosen to adapt our economy and technology to human beings---not our human beings to somebody else's economy and technology. We import what we can't make; but we import only what we can afford. And what we can afford is limited not merely by our supply of pounds and marks and dollars, but also primarily---primarily," he insisted---"by our wish to be happy, our ambition to become fully human."

"God has nothing to do with it," Ranga retorted, "and the joke isn't cosmic, it's strictly man-made. These things aren't like gravity or the second law of thermo-dynamics; they don't have to happen. They happen only if people are stupid enough to let them happen..."

"Certainly not. I do muscular work, because I have muscles, and if I don't use
      my muscles I shall become a bad-tempered sitting-addict."

"With nothing between the cortex and the buttocks," said Dr. Robert. "Or rather with everything---but in a condition of complete unconsciousness and toxic stagnation. Western intellectuals are all sitting-addicts. That's why most of you are so repulsively unwholesome. In the past even a duke had to do a lot of walking, even a moneylender, even a metaphysician. And when they weren't using their legs, they were jogging about on horses. Whereas now, from the tycoon to his typist, from the logical positivist to the positive thinker, you spend nine tenths of your time on foam rubber. Spongy seats for spongy bottoms---at home, in the office, in cars and bars, in planes and trains and buses. No moving of legs, no struggles with distance and gravity---just lifts and planes and cars, just foam rubber and an eternity of sitting. The life force that used to find an outlet through striped muscle gets turned back on the viscera and the nervous system, and slowly destroys them."

[...Vijaya explained,] "If you'd been shown how to do things with the minimum of strain and the maximum of awareness, you'd enjoy even honest toil." ( This expains why if machines are alowed to take on all the laborious task the human body and mind will atrophy and we will loose touch with the real world altogether)

 "In Pala," she explained, "we don't say grace before meals. We say it with meals. Or rather we don't say grace; we chew it."
"Grace is the first mouthful of each course---chewed and chewed until there's nothing left of it. And all the time you're chewing you pay attention to the flavor of the food, to its consistency and temperature, to the pressures on your teeth and the feel of the muscles in your jaw." (this is very insticto)



« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 10:16:31 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline jessica

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #108 on: October 17, 2015, 11:06:02 pm »
It's not offensive in any real sense. We were discussing the theoretical harm I had caused you by pointing out your volatility, and so I brought up the theoretical harm you had done me by unfriending me twice with no explanation. I'm not trying to insult you.

lol ck so youre a scientist and a politician?

If you hadnt insinuated that my previous mental health status were something i was currently suffering and that it was apparently driving my opinion, or were a reason to "feel sad" or something "hard" for me to have gone through i wouldnt have had to explain to you that it was quite the opposite. 

Having had mental health issues was perhaps the best learning experience of my life that brought me to a higher level of empathy, consciousness and knowledge about the multifaceted causes and also solution to mental health issues.  It has also made me healthier, mentally, physically and yes, spiritually, than many of the people I know because i did not fear to stifle my emotions, rather knew that being totally open and honest about what i was feeling was the only way I was ever going to find a solution.  If having a spiritual life, being vulnerable and also having feelings towards and about the world ruins the validity of my opinions in your view that is something I cannot understand.  I would much rather live in a world with feeling, empathetic, people who are aware and willing to admit their short comings and come up with heart felt solutions instead of trying to deny that they can and may do wrong and push forward with headstrong destruction.   

My internet use is not my resume on life and your view on it, that you should be able to totally judge the content of my character, my validity, my emotional status etc, by how i use social media is just the exact shit scientist do when they take a small, abstracted portion of a reality of a situation and use it as causation to judge the whole of a situation.  Its not adequate information, its not real knowledge, its just a tiny, obscure peace of the puzzle.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #109 on: October 18, 2015, 05:00:56 am »
Yeah, but when you unfriended twice without explanation, THAT was indicative of a lack of stability. Not that I care, it's just that you really are an aggressive and confrontational person with less than perfect emotional control, and discussing things calmly with you can be challenging as a result. I find it annoying that someone with no actual awareness of Moore's Law or anything remotely related to it is preaching about it like they know everything. But you don't. For pete's sake, you didn't even know about foliar feeding, yet you still claim to be some kind of expert on permaculture, plants, etc.. I mean, that's fine, but don't expect me to be interested in discussing this more with you. Keep working on yourself.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #110 on: October 18, 2015, 05:27:40 am »
Quite frankly, whatever happened on facebook is of no relevance to rawpaleoforum, let alone other personal matters. If you want to post in another thread  about the, er,  health benefits of GM foods or the  current success laboratories are having with growing meat in a vat etc. , fine.....
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #111 on: October 18, 2015, 05:38:21 am »
Just because technology has failed to give us better lives than hunter-gatherers doesn't mean it will always fail at that. Science advances as a group, and groups of people have learning curves. Children fall a lot when they first learn to walk. So what? There's a learning curve. And Moore's Law is the key to it all. Nobody who disagrees with me actually understands that because they refuse to research it. That doesn't make it untrue.

Offline jessica

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #112 on: October 18, 2015, 07:47:03 am »
 
Yeah, but when you unfriended twice without explanation, THAT was indicative of a lack of stability. Not that I care, it's just that you really are an aggressive and confrontational person with less than perfect emotional control, and discussing things calmly with you can be challenging as a result. I find it annoying that someone with no actual awareness of Moore's Law or anything remotely related to it is preaching about it like they know everything. But you don't. For pete's sake, you didn't even know about foliar feeding, yet you still claim to be some kind of expert on permaculture, plants, etc.. I mean, that's fine, but don't expect me to be interested in discussing this more with you. Keep working on yourself.

I have done foliar feeding in countless greenhouses and on row crops.  What I said was its highly unlikely you are going to have an adequate source of nutrients for foliar feeding when you destroy the soil and atmosphere.  I cant imagine anything more dire and its not a future I am willing to agree to.

Really, coming back to this facebook thing?  Facebook honestly has such little bearing in my life its quite absurd of you to keep bringing it up.  I am sorry that you were offended and think that it is indicative of instability.  It's not. 

I know you will never take my opinion seriously because I am not well read and, at times, lack tact.  I use expletives, get over it.  I live with and love people who are passionate and enjoy debate and even enjoy a good verbal "confrontation".  Debate is always a good chance to really reinforce how you do feel and what you do believe.  In fact, you bringing to attention my previous struggle with mental health has caused me to really take stock of how far my mental and physical health has progressed.  I was having such a good time living I hadn't really thought about it lately.  So thank you for that. 

None of my mental health issues EVER affected my relationships, in fact people I know(IN REAL LIFE) were and are always deeply shocked when I open up about what I have been through.  I live my life in an extremely benevolent manner, my responsibility has always been to others first.  What I have shared here is such a small part of who I am, what I do and what I have accomplished besides in the past few years.  Those arent really things I take time to translate to the internet because honestly, I just don't care to.  Not everyone is interested in being an internet persona. 

My success probably cant be measured in a way that makes sense to you because we dont share the same value systems.  Perhaps there no room for honest emotion among civilized folk like yourself.  Lord knows someone might find out that you are not perfectly stoic, have vulnerability and passion and might twist that through their perverted perception and actually use it against you.  I don't think its a fault to be emotionally invested in life. 

I have never claimed to be an expert on anything.   I know what I do because I have done it.  I am more interested in living life than studying death.  Why would anyone ever stop working on themselves?  I think you need to take a few lessons in humility yourself. 
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 08:12:29 am by jessica »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #113 on: October 18, 2015, 08:11:14 am »
Good luck with all that, I admit I don't have the energy to even begin to unpack all the logical mistakes and misunderstandings in your very limited perspective. Believe me when I say that, not only have I lived a life very similar to yours, I've also managed to pack in working in multiple careers of varying success, two marriages (I'm on my 2nd), raising a teenager, and now raising my 15-month-old daughter. Oh yes, and I've also carefully studied futurism, Taoism, astrology, ormus, martial arts, etc.. I've lived in a foreign country and married into an international family.

So all that to say, I've had the chance to see how narrow-minded people everywhere are, whether you mean subcultures, religions, or nationalities. Believe me that the electrical engineers making Moore's Law happen every day have just as intense a passion to make the world a better place as anyone here does. They are not bad people, by and large. Many of them, in fact, are good Hindu boys who follow their religions strictly. You're looking down on them, but they are also looking down on us for being dirty carnivores. LOL

Everyone has a part to play. Science will eagerly sell the first cheap vat-grown burgers, but, because people like us are so fanatical about food quality,  (and are successfully spreading the word about it), people will avoid eating the vat-grown meat until people like us are assured of its safety and quality. Together, they and  we will make a better food supply than Nature even has. I guarantee it.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #114 on: October 18, 2015, 10:37:36 am »
Moore's law is not God's Law. Even Moore himself has predicted in 2005 that it cannot last more than 1 more generation at the most before hitting the proverbial wall. He himself has pointed out how much vaster the expenses are nowadays in building modern computer chips by comparison to the 1980s. In the end, either  the laws of physics or the vastly-increasing cost of manufacturing computer chips  will kill Moore's law, according to Gordon Moore himself:-

http://www.techworld.com/news/operating-systems/moores-law-is-dead-says-gordon-moore-3576581/
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #115 on: October 18, 2015, 11:08:30 am »
Moore's law is not God's Law. Even Moore himself has predicted in 2005 that it cannot last more than 1 more generation at the most before hitting the proverbial wall. He himself has pointed out how much vaster the expenses are nowadays in building modern computer chips by comparison to the 1980s. In the end, either  the laws of physics or the vastly-increasing cost of manufacturing computer chips  will kill Moore's law, according to Gordon Moore himself:-

http://www.techworld.com/news/operating-systems/moores-law-is-dead-says-gordon-moore-3576581/

What both of you are missing is the fact that people will start to realize just how much more useful technology can be with each iteration of Moore's Law, and larger amounts of resources will be diverted to keeping it going. I think it's possible that half of all human effort and resources could end up going to the effort before it's done. Maybe more. Smartphones are just the beginning. You ain't seen nothin yet.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #116 on: October 18, 2015, 11:28:52 am »
Yes there will be progress (in how many decades and in how many centuries?), yes there is "progress".... and there are retrogresses.

Yes there are mistakes, and it is up to people like us to identify when those mistakes are made.

GMO crops today are modified specifically for a PROFIT to the company model.  It is not shit altruistic... at all.  So the way the crops are modified... is so CORRUPT convoluted profit driven only... and has no freaking care for the nutritional benefits, sustainability, or biosphere compatibility, etc.

I have this big thing about ALTRUISM which is absolutely absent in the current GMO crops for profit model.

Maybe when humanity figures out a model for living without MONEY... like Star Trek, then we will see better GM results.

-------

In these discussions, you guys and gals need to state where you are coming from or your objective, like some of you "like" the current GM stuff because it "feeds the world"...

... but is this GM stuff something you would want for your self or your children if you were RICH or could afford anything, or if you were the food producer / hunter / gatherer?

... So let us reveal the REALITY of our Personal Desires... If I could afford and identify the BEST... I would not feed the current GM crops / creatures to myself and my kids.

-------

The ultra rich grow their own and acquire their own special clean, nutritious / "organic stuff"... right now... around the world... and peasants get the GM crap and everything else.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 11:37:21 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline ys

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #117 on: October 22, 2015, 03:09:13 am »
Quote
Since these animals are butchered by 2 years of age most of the long term debilitating effects of GMO fed lotting are not given time to manifest, but I can vouch that many of these animals brought in to slaughter are sick and shouldn't be fed to people.

What about milking cows?  I assume they are fed the same GMO feed.  What's the health record of those if anyone knows?

Offline sabertooth

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #118 on: October 22, 2015, 04:42:30 am »
Good question. I haven't gotten to personally butcher spent commercially raised dairy cows to know for sure. One way farmers have manage to avoid the fertility issues with GMO is to have separate breeding stock raised on pasture which produces the animals which go on to the feed lots.

This way the trans-generational effects of GMO are not as noticeable.  I assume these milking animals are fed GMOs and milked until they are spent then ground up into burger meat. The lower cost hamburger in american supermarkets is often made with spent dairy cows.

I think there is deliberately an absence of evidence, and proper record keeping. The commercial operations who use GMOs simply cull out sick animals without making close record regarding the possible causes of the sickness. Like Ive stated often times the sickness doesn't show up until the time the animlal is sent to be butchered, so the commercial meat markets in America is rife with sick animals. There doesn't seem to be any FDA Backed double blind long-term feeding studies that would prove this to be right or wrong.
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Offline ys

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #119 on: October 22, 2015, 08:26:13 am »
You would think there would be plenty of studies considering how controversial this subject is.  I can't believe there is no one who does not have a relationship with GMO producers that could fund these kind of studies.  Have a few cows and feed them GMO for 5-8 years or whatever the age of milking cows and then compare it with non-GMO.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #120 on: October 22, 2015, 08:55:18 am »
The frustration is difficult to contain, in that, in order to prove one way or another the true long term effects GMOs, all that would be needed is some real unbiased scientific research. Yet such projects are not being conducted by the organizations in charge of overseeing food safety, at a time when it would be of paramount importance to ascertain the long term effects GMOs may be having.

It seems like there is an agenda by to push forward the use of GMOs without the application of due diligence within the scientific method, that would make more clear if the benefits would indeed outweigh the risk. Right now there is only corrupt science half baked pretzel logic being spewed out by imbeciles who do not have the authority nor the indisputable evidence to claim total safety of all GMOs currently in use.

Note to Monsanto-Do the studies, repeat the results, publish the data, with complete transparency then you just might be able to claim scientific legitimacy....Until then quit pushing your poisons and bullshit upon the world.
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

 

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