Author Topic: The opposition.  (Read 38337 times)

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Offline jessica

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The opposition.
« on: September 17, 2015, 12:39:11 am »
I cant even get past the first sentence.  Vegans, people who think they can have this totally sanitary version of life and diet......telling people its okay to eat GMO's.  Veganism is a sure way to destroy nature and humanity.

http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/7257-go-ahead-eat-genetically-modified-food-it-s-not-bad-for-you?utm_content=buffer4bad8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

GO AHEAD—EAT GENETICALLY MODIFIED FOOD. IT’S NOT BAD FOR YOU.
by RYAN BETHENCOURT
Sep 15 at 10am
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I’m a vegan, which means I don’t eat meat, eggs, or dairy. It’s a philosophical stance, since I believe it’s wrong to butcher sentient beings for food. I’m also a scientist. I studied genetics in college, and now I help build and fund biotech start-ups. I work in downtown San Francisco and live in Oakland (which I love).

Living here in the Bay Area, I see a lot of confusion about genetically modified foods. For instance, some people think that if you eat non-GMO produce, it means you’re eating natural, but that’s wrong (fancy scientists would call this thinking the “naturalistic fallacy”).

Almost nothing you or I eat is actually natural. Our ancestors have been selectively breeding plants for at least 20,000 years, and in that time, they’ve developed most of the foods we know, love, and eat today. I hate to be the one to say it, but our food is almost all artificial—the corn you eat, the bananas you enjoy, even your broccoli and cauliflower. None of those foods is natural; they were altered by our ancestors.

And no, eating a Paleo diet does not get you closer to how we evolved to eat. The cows you eat today aren’t bison, and those pigs aren’t boars. Look again (and watch your cholesterol). Primates don’t eat that much meat!

Even more importantly, the practice of agriculture is also unnatural. Those organic apples you love are made from clones, grown artificially in fields that are artificially irrigated and artificially treated with biopesticides to prevent the destruction of crops by insects. In fact, the same genes that are inserted into GMO corn, an insecticide called Bt, is sprayed on your organic apples. It’s the exact same biopesticide. Think about that for a second, and then do a double take the next time you hear or read organic marketing materials. I repeat: it’s the same thing. Look it up!

Remember those biblical plagues of locusts and the famines that followed? Where did they go? That’s right—science and modern agriculture eradicated them (for now). If we were to grow food naturally, the organic produce wouldn’t even last one growing cycle—the plants would just be sticks in a field.

So why are so many people anti-GMO? Is it because the food is toxic? No, there’s no substantive data to support this perception, and no, you should not believe any of those sketchy blog sources with conspiracy theories. The reality of it is, if you believe climate change is real because of the overwhelming data, then why wouldn’t you believe GMOs are safe due to the overwhelming data in support of them? I’d encourage you to dive deeper into the science, specifically a scientific paper published in 2013 that reviewed 10 years of scientific data and peer-reviewed published papers about the safety of GMO crops and found that “scientific research conducted so far has not detected any significant hazards directly connected with the use of GE [genetically engineered] crops.” That is, GMO crops are safe!

“Ahh,” you’re thinking, “but the EU has banned GMOs. Gotcha!”

The EU’s GMO ban is nothing but a political smoke screen. In reality, the EU eats a ton of GMO products. Take cheese, for instance. Do you love your British Cheddar? If so, you’re eating a GMO—microbially derived rennet, an enzyme needed for cheese production in the vast majority of cheeses. If we were to get this enzyme naturally, it would come from the stomachs of dead calves (no joke). As a result of the GMO rennet, cheese is now vegetarian and a lot less gross (once you know how it’s made). So the anti-GMO posture of the EU is mostly just political theater.

So why, specifically, am I a pro-GMO vegan? Because I believe that mindfulness, knowledge, and science are more important than political games. I am against the use of sentient beings in the production of our food, and I think we can use science to give everyone what they want—milk, cheese, eggs, and even real meat—without harming animals.

My hope and aim through my work and the work of others is that one day (in a few years), you’ll all be pro-GMO vegans. Even if you keep eating steak, one day it will be lab grown, rather than sourced from suffering animals in cages—and that will be just fine by me. I might even have a few bites. Yep, real vegan steak. Ponder that for a while!

Offline actup

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 01:53:45 am »
These people would have us eating food off a petri dish. They don't feel at home on the earth.

They're no different than the people who think they were born in the wrong gender/body/etc.

Their goals to protect the environment almost always move in the direction of destruction. I've met a lot of these people. They are usually very irritable and childish. Most of them are women who just need a good man to put a baby in them. The men who do this are always emasculated.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 02:03:15 am by actup90 »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2015, 02:11:20 am »
The UK Labour Oppostion now has a shadow female Minister for Agriculture who is a militant vegan and hates all farms and the consumption of animals for food. If Corbyn wins, RPDers in the UK are doomed!
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 04:01:04 am »
Calm down, people. Nobody's going to take away your meat. And yes, most ethical vegans are unbalanced, but they are a tiny minority, and will remain that way.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 04:09:11 am »
The US very nearly managed to force the EU to accept genetically-modified foods that were unlabelled. It was only because of a healthy-foods-rights movement that this got stopped. The people we oppose have vast amounts of money and have nearly managed to crush the pro-raw dairy movement in many parts of the world.

Being  part of a tiny minority has not stopped a female raw vegan fanatic from being put in charge of agriculture for the Opposition in the UK.If the Communists win under Corbyn, then this woman will indeed move in and wipe out our RPD supplies. In the UK, we have already had attempts to crush the grassfed meat movement in minor, but frequent ways, with Government Ministers using the BSE crisis etc. to ruin UK grassfed meat farmers even though BSE was not affecting their cattle.

AV was right to start that healthy food charity. It was desperately needed.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 05:48:18 am by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2015, 04:22:45 am »
These people are not the opposition. They are just idiots. Big Pharma is the opposition, these people are just their stooges.

Offline ys

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2015, 05:28:21 am »
I've heard similar opinion from gmo engineer.  They say it is the same as manual process of selecting and cross-breeding only instead of decades it happens a lot quicker.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2015, 05:35:53 am »
I've heard similar opinion from gmo engineer.  They say it is the same as manual process of selecting and cross-breeding only instead of decades it happens a lot quicker.

This is technically correct. However, Monsanto has demonstrated a lack of the necessary dedication to ethics and good judgement that handling this kind of power requires.

IOW, they are scumbags with dollar signs in their eyes. You don't give an ethics-challenged money-hungry scumbag control over your food. Period.

Offline jessica

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2015, 05:47:48 am »
its not just what they do to seeds, its how they ruin soil and ecosystems.  there are much better ways to produce food,  you just have to understand land and ecosystems, no try to mutilate them.

i'll admit that i was being a little bit dramatic with the title but seriosuly......people who indulge in this type reality are fucked, its hard for me to even completely understand how people can be so fucking stupid.

Offline actup

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2015, 06:09:06 am »
I don't think you're wrong at all in the title. These people are an enemy to more than just raw food eaters, if a minority can take a position in political office they'll be able to do damage. Whether or not Kerry McCarthy for example might believe in GMOs, she is a vegan, and she'll be able to manipulate the system to possibly punish and/or hinder people's ability to get the food they need. We already know by being vegan she's deficient and off course, there's no telling what she'll do.

The problem is that many people fail by giving vegans moral leverage. Many people believe "oh, well, this person cares about animals" and in a subtle way believe them to be on moral high ground. Instead of just shutting them down for being degenerate hippies who promote weakness and infertility.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 07:03:59 am by actup90 »

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2015, 07:42:15 am »
A blatant example of a minion for the Depopulation / Population Control lobby.

These minions HATE us because we push for truth in nutrition, which leads to health and fertility... And healthy children.

FYI the fertility decline the past decades is largely due to the sabotage of our food and drink.

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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2015, 07:57:18 am »
A blatant example of a minion for the Depopulation / Population Control lobby.

These minions HATE us because we push for truth in nutrition, which leads to health and fertility... And healthy children.
FYI the fertility decline the past decades is largely due to the sabotage of our food and drink.


No, there must be more to it. Incidentally, you do NOT see hunter-gatherer tribes vastly increasing in population, even nowadays. Neither did palaeo-era hunter-gatherer tribes try to overpopulate. They, unlike us, had become, long ago,  able to grasp that the more people there were, the fewer resources would be available, thus endangering the lives of both individuals and the entire tribe as a direct result. No wonder that scientists have proven that the average brain-size of palaeo-era humans was 10% bigger than the average brain-size nowadays.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline eveheart

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2015, 08:01:13 am »
its not just what they do to seeds, its how they ruin soil and ecosystems.  there are much
i'll admit that i was being a little bit dramatic with the title but seriosuly......people who indulge in this type reality are fucked, its hard for me to even completely understand how people can be so fucking stupid.

They aren't stupid, just emotional. When it comes to killing and eating sentient beings, even  meat-eaters can be pretty emotional about seeing anything to do with slaughter, blood, and offal. Mention spiders and grubs, and they go absolutely wack-o.

Why read this stuff?
"I intend to live forever; so far, so good." -Steven Wright, comedian

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2015, 08:39:05 am »
If anyone sends regurgitated Monsanto propaganda your way, here's something to point them to:

GMOs Facts and Fiction: A Cheat Sheet
https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/639877828515897345
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2015, 11:28:08 am »
This is technically correct. However, Monsanto has demonstrated a lack of the necessary dedication to ethics and good judgement that handling this kind of power requires.

IOW, they are scumbags with dollar signs in their eyes. You don't give an ethics-challenged money-hungry scumbag control over your food. Period.
This is technically correct. However, Monsanto has demonstrated a lack of the necessary dedication to ethics and good judgement that handling this kind of power requires.

IOW, they are scumbags with dollar signs in their eyes. You don't give an ethics-challenged money-hungry scumbag control over your food. Period.

It's not technically correct. Gmo's are created by combining different SPECIES from different KINGDOMS. Tomatoes with fish DNA, corn with bacteria DNA and unless the technology has changed since I researched it, it always contains DNA from antibiotic resistant bacteria and cauliflower mosaic virus. They get these genes by blasting them into cells with microscopic gold pellets and then hope that the genes fall into the right places. The vast majority of their experiments fail.

Offline lb_on_the_cb

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2015, 07:11:25 am »
its nice if they want to be a vegan as long as they dont tell me how to live.  (and usually there's the problem)

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2015, 08:13:36 am »
It's not technically correct. Gmo's are created by combining different SPECIES from different KINGDOMS. Tomatoes with fish DNA, corn with bacteria DNA and unless the technology has changed since I researched it, it always contains DNA from antibiotic resistant bacteria and cauliflower mosaic virus. They get these genes by blasting them into cells with microscopic gold pellets and then hope that the genes fall into the right places. The vast majority of their experiments fail.

If I recall correctly the tech, very recently, got a lot more precise. I can Google the link if you want.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2015, 03:38:09 pm »
If I recall correctly the tech, very recently, got a lot more precise. I can Google the link if you want.
Do so. And please explain how GM-tech can possibly avoid negative epigenetic and mutagenic effects among others. This article points to 55-66% chance of GM techniques disrupting a gene:-

http://earthopensource.org/gmomythsandtruths/sample-page/1-genetic-engineering-technique/1-2-myth-genetic-engineering-precise-results-predictable/

I am surprised that you would favour science over nature. I mean, the whole point of going raw and palaeo is to copy former natural behaviours.Most of us have experienced awful health-problems by trusting in conventional science/conventional medicine.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2015, 08:28:37 pm »
Geoff, the march of technological progress isn't going to stop just because some people wish it would. It keeps getting better and better, until one day, it has no measurable flaws any more. And nature is not perfect by any means. Plenty of people have genetic defects that have been passed down for many generations. Wild animals have them too, but they can keep being passed down if the defect doesn't interfere too much with reproduction.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2015, 08:43:39 pm »
Geoff, the march of technological progress isn't going to stop just because some people wish it would. It keeps getting better and better, until one day, it has no measurable flaws any more.
Well, actually, as technology has improved over the millenia, it has always  improved some things while also introducing many other things which have ruined us, either directly or indirectly, such as DDT, the coal-fogs of 19th century London etc. etc. etc.

Anyway, the problem is not with technology but with the flaws inherent in the human race which make the future technologies much worse than they would otherwise be.
Quote
And nature is not perfect by any means. Plenty of people have genetic defects that have been passed down for many generations. Wild animals have them too, but they can keep being passed down if the defect doesn't interfere too much with reproduction.
Nature does not seek perfection, only (some) humans do, which is not logical as perfection is not natural. The point is that, in Nature, some defects are bad, some are good(ie beneficial mutations), and thus evolution happens. If the defects are bad enough, the animals won't survive, and vice-versa, and that is natural selection.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 08:54:45 pm by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2015, 12:06:12 am »
I've got some thoughts to share regarding purity, perfection, and orthorexia in diet/lifestyle, but I'm going to let other people share first.

And as far as human nature goes, you make a very good point....except for the fact that now we are really starting, using MRI tech, to understand the brain. There is already a therapy or two using low electrical current to combat depression with excellent results, and we can already see general personality traits through MRI. The next step is to gain finer and finer-grained control over the brain. At some point you can literally change human nature on an individual level, in very precise ways. Cure sociopathy, anxiety, depression, schizoid disorders, etc.. We can all have the brains of enlightened people if we choose, at that point. This is coming in the next 10-20 years. THAT will be the game-changer. Forever.

Offline lb_on_the_cb

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2015, 12:30:33 am »
THAT will be the game-changer. Forever.

whats the goal?   what is it that needs to be fixed so badly?

Offline jessica

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2015, 12:34:24 am »
whens the last time any of you lived in a heavily GM/chemical agricultural zone and actually saw AND WERE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE first hand how devastating it is to an ecosystem?

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2015, 12:47:02 am »
whats the goal?   what is it that needs to be fixed so badly?

See Jessica's post above this one. Rofl

But seriously, when you correct the defects in people's brains, then you take away all or most of the reason people come into conflict in the first place. You people who are too young to remember the Cold War don't know what it was like. We literally came within a few minutes of global nuclear war several times. I hear World War II kinda sucked too. I also imagine living in most of the Middle East kind of sucks right now as well, especially Iraq and Syria.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: The opposition.
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2015, 12:48:36 am »
whens the last time any of you lived in a heavily GM/chemical agricultural zone and actually saw AND WERE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE first hand how devastating it is to an ecosystem?

Who do you think is advocating the current system of agriculture? Jesus, relax. Lol

 

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