Author Topic: PaleoPhil's Journal  (Read 273566 times)

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #700 on: September 01, 2013, 03:12:36 am »
Despite paper_clips43's good experience, I should re-emphasize what I've said in the past, that I don't want anyone doing anything I do just because I've had success with it. One person has reported negative results from P5P at http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/pyroluria/msg113912/#msg113912 and it sounds like he wasn't taking certain recommended precautions with it, such as what Paul Jaminet recommended here:

B6 supplementation "should be balanced by vitamin B12 and biotin" http://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/supplements, which are often included in B complex supplements (though I've read that one should look for ones that contain folate instead of folic acid and Dr. Ron recently changed his Doc's Best multi-vit/mineral to include folate instead of folic acid).

My current regimen includes the following supplements, though some days I only take the P5P, and sometimes lower doses, either because I'm too busy or to try to avoid my body becoming dependent on supplements:

GLA from evening primrose oil (just re-started this today after not taking it for a while--GLA is recommended for pyroluria and I had some good exercise performance while I was taking Nordic borage seed oil as the GLA source, but I read that EPO is a better source)
P5P
Zinc (I'm trying a liquid ionic form, which Nora Gedgaudas recommended that people with pyroluria take, as they tend not to absorb nutrients well, which is another match with my experience, and I also don't seem to absorb tablets or even capsules as well as liquids)
Potassium
Magnesium (and epsom salt baths on occasion)
Doc's Best multi vitamin/mineral or B complex
Biotin and manganese (haven't been good about taking these)

On days where I don't eat much raw plantain, I also add some Bob's Red Mill potato starch to water or sheep yogurt or another food.

Last weekend I ate some big meals of my mother's cooked food and had some negative symptoms afterwards, starting with throat mucus and reflux that seemed to be triggered by the loads of her tomato-based barbecue sauce that was put on grilled chicken. The reflux, choaking and coughing irritated my throat and for several days my body produced throat and nasal mucus. I also developed worsened constipation (perhaps from the cooked meat protein, which does seem to be constipating for me) and then I got some urinary-tract-infection-type symptoms and even the first inguinal hernia bulging I've had in a long time that luckily improved relatively quickly. I normally would limit my intake of tomato-based sauce due to past bad experience with it and go somewhat easy on thoroughly-cooked lean meat, but I was feeling good and mistakenly thought my tolerance level had improved enough to handle it. I also wasn't taking as much supplements as I do at home, including no magnesium. Lesson learned.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #701 on: September 14, 2013, 07:49:22 am »
I saw Belgian endive in the supermarket. It looked yummy and nutritious (http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2006-12-27/news/0612250030_1_bitter-greens-turnip-greens-dandelion-greens) to me. I do find it tasty (most SAD-fecked Americans probably won't like the bitterness, but I increasingly adore bitterness after being on a mostly-raw Paleo diet for some time and challenging my taste buds with bitter foods).
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #702 on: September 15, 2013, 10:34:35 am »
I enjoy bitter greens too.  I have noticed, though, that even the bitter greens have a sweeter quality when they are high-Brix...which makes sense, since a good deal of the dissolved solids that Brix meters measure are sugars.

Offline jessica

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #703 on: September 15, 2013, 12:24:11 pm »
Bitter greens are my absolute favorite, endive, radicchio, dandelion, chicory, wild lettuce, any kind of lettuce really, lettuce stems especially.  But I will admit I am also partial to them because some, especially the wild lettuce, are high in opiates :)

Offline paper_clips43

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #704 on: October 09, 2013, 01:37:19 am »
At what stage of ripeness do you eat your plantains?
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #705 on: October 09, 2013, 01:50:19 am »
At what stage of ripeness do you eat your plantains?

I wait until they are mushy and black all over.

Offline paper_clips43

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #706 on: October 09, 2013, 04:01:47 am »
ok good. I have one at that stage.
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Offline Iguana

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #707 on: October 09, 2013, 06:28:15 am »
I wait until they are mushy and black all over.

Sometimes I do, but I also like them before that stage.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #708 on: October 09, 2013, 06:54:39 am »
At what stage of ripeness do you eat your plantains?
When I first tried raw plantains I followed the advice or raw vegans who eat them by letting them ripen to the extent that Cherimoya does (to the point that the whole skin is black and the flesh mushy). Unfortunately, I found that the more I ripened them, the more negative effects I get. Then I learned about resistant starch (if interested, please see the thorough blog series on it at http://freetheanimal.com/tag/resistant-starch/page/4 that Richard Nikoley and "Tatertot" Tim collaborated on--please no questions unless you've first read that entire series, as they answer most potential questions in it), found that I benefit from RS (such as improved fasting, post-prandial and random blood glucose and some further small improvement in my sleep quality and ability to fall asleep quickly, which already seemed pretty good), and now I eat plantains as green as possible and avoid negative symptoms (many of the same negative symptoms I've reported in the past in my journal). It was rather surprising to me, because it goes against what people had recommended and I thought there would be more problems when they're highest in starch, rather than glucose (ripening converts the starch into glucose). To get rid of the astringency I dry them first.

My experience with plantains made me curious about glucose. I tested a near-pure glucose source (brown rice syrup) and found it to have very negative symptoms for me at even low intakes. So it's looking like glucose may be more of a problem for me than starch, fructose or sucrose.

I do it for the health benefits, rather than for taste. When not ripened at all and dried, they taste bland, sort of like crackers. Not bad, but not that good either.

I'll pre-emptively request that there please be no debates on any of this in my journal. I've seen too many flame posts on RS and other matters at other blogs and forums already. I've had more than my fill of them trying to find info in between the flame attacks. Insults and negative attacking posts don't bother me (though I would of course prefer not to get them), but they tend to be absent of any substance and a complete waste of time to have to sift through them to find the real information.

I know that there are controversial topics here, but like Lex, I want my journal thread to stay focused on my journal. If you want to debate you can start your own thread or look for an existing thread on the topic (I recall at least one past thread on resistant starch--and I was a skeptic at first). I hope people will respect this request.

As always, YMMV.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 09:41:52 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #709 on: October 09, 2013, 10:35:56 am »
I personally have no problem with people eating plantains before they are mushy, but I get terrible burping and stomach pains if I do.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #710 on: October 09, 2013, 11:19:50 am »
Sorry to hear that. I'm surprised how well I seem to handle unripe plantains and potato starch, given my own decades long history of problems in my entire GI system.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #711 on: October 09, 2013, 11:24:23 am »
Sorry to hear that. I'm surprised how well I seem to handle unripe plantains and potato starch, given my own decades long history of problems in my entire GI system.

Well, it sounds like you probably need them to be unripe.  How is the P5P going?  Are you part of any online forums for people on P5P? I'm curious to see what other supplements they find helpful.

Offline Iguana

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #712 on: October 09, 2013, 12:00:58 pm »
PSP ? A Google search tells me :
- Polícia de Segurança Pública
- PlayStation Portable
- Professional Paintball League
- Progressive Supranuclear Palsy

 ???
Back to plantains, I used to like them black-overripe but now I like them best when yellow-ripe with a few black spots. I can’t eat them green-unripe.

Should we split this discussion about plantains from your journal ?
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #713 on: October 09, 2013, 07:56:14 pm »
Well, it sounds like you probably need them to be unripe.  How is the P5P going?  Are you part of any online forums for people on P5P? I'm curious to see what other supplements they find helpful.

PSP ? A Google search tells me :
- Polícia de Segurança Pública
- PlayStation Portable
- Professional Paintball League
- Progressive Supranuclear Palsy

 ???
Huh? That's not what comes up with my google search:

https://www.google.com/#q=p5p

All the top hits show what it is - a vitamin.

Quote
Back to plantains, I used to like them black-overripe but now I like them best when yellow-ripe with a few black spots. I can’t eat them green-unripe.
I've tried them at various ripeness and I find I prefer them just a little ripe, mostly green, and dried for more than a day or two. That way they have a mild sweetness that I find I like. I was surprised because I had read in the past that they aren't edible unless cooked, then I read that they are only edible raw if super-ripe.

Like I said, drying them (I put them on a drying rack in the fridge) gets rid of the nasty astringency. I'll bet you would find them at least not as bad when dried a bit or more, and thin-sliced.

Quote
Should we split this discussion about plantains from your journal ?
Questions on them are OK. If it turns into a debate, there is a plantains opinions thread at http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/plantains-vs-bananas/msg61880/#msg61880.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #714 on: October 09, 2013, 08:30:05 pm »
I believe Iguana googled the letter S, instead of the number 5. ;)

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #715 on: October 10, 2013, 05:15:37 am »
LOL  Good thing he didn't google it with the letter C.  ;D
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #716 on: October 10, 2013, 06:00:25 am »
indeed.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #717 on: October 10, 2013, 07:09:53 am »
How is the P5P going?
Good, though because the body excretes what it doesn't need and doesn't store it, I need to take it any day that I want to benefit from it.

Quote
Are you part of any online forums for people on P5P? I'm curious to see what other supplements they find helpful.
No. Nora Gedgaudas page on pyroluria is a good starting point: http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/?p=398
It has an annoying large ad that wasn't there before. The info is below it. Paul Jaminet and Chris Kresser also have some helpful info.

Manganese, Magnesium and biotin are some nutrients that can be depleted by taking a lot of the main pyroluria supplements (zinc and the P5P form of B6):

Supplement / what depletes it / source
Manganese / Zinc / a commenter
Magnesium / B6 / a commenter
Biotin / B6 / Paul Jaminet
B12 / B6 / Paul Jaminet
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #718 on: October 10, 2013, 10:30:36 am »
Have you thought about starting such a forum?  There may be common co-deficiencies that go along with B-6 deficiencies that you're not aware of yet.  That might be a useful way for many people to share their experiences with specific supplements, foods, or herbs.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #719 on: October 19, 2013, 08:37:58 pm »
Thanks for the suggestion, Cheri. A number of people have tried to start blogs and such about pyroluria, but not much came out of them, as the popularity has been minimal and they typically don't last long, since most people don't know they have it and have never heard of it and those who have tend to have only heard the critics and dismiss and ridicule it (for example, devotees of Danny Roddy ridiculed Chris Kresser for taking it seriously and Kurt Harris for taking Chris Kresser seriously--so the taint is so strong on pyroluria that it even extends to guilt-by-association).

Raw green coffee is so far proving to be superior to roasted coffee for me. I get a mild euphoria and mild, clear alertness with no noticeable significant negative side effects from raw green coffee, whereas I get a strong energy boost and euphoria from roasted coffee, but it's followed by jitteriness, muscle tightness and generally feeling not quite as good, and the more I drank roasted coffee, the less I got the benefits and the more I got just the negatives. Presumably, raw coffee is much lower in AGEs than roasted (I recall seeing roasted coffee listed as one of the foods highest in AGEs).

Bringing raw green coffee to work helps me avoid the temptation of the roasted coffee available all day in the cafeteria and at some meetings. To make matters worse, because it's available all day and is kept heated at very high temps, the coffee had probably sometimes been "cooked" for hours by the time I got to it.

When I get it right, I find raw coffee to taste like mildly flavored cocoa, even slightly sweet. Quite a contrast to the burnt flavor of dark roasted coffee (*see below for why I briefly tried a dark roast). I have to get the timing right for the raw coffee to taste good. I put a couple handfuls of green coffee beans in a mason jar and fill it with water and refrigerate for about 3 days. Sometimes I add a small number of roasted beans to add additional flavor, and also to use up my remaining roasted beans (before thinking of trying fully raw coffee, I first tried lightly roasted beans, which still had some negative effects and not as much of the sustained good feeling of the raw coffee).

The beans stick to the bottom of the jars, so I may try to come up with a way to keep them elevated above it on something that is easily removed and cleaned.

Loren Cordain made this raw-meat friendly statement in one of his books:

"if you can find sources of untainted meats and seafood, eating these foods raw may represent a healthy alternative when it comes to AGEs. Sushi bars (raw fish and seafood) and restaurants serving steak tartare (raw beef) have been popular for decades." (The Paleo Answer: 7 Days to Lose Weight, Feel Great, Stay Young, p. 40)

*I tried Starbucks dark roast coffee when I was first experimenting with making my own coffee and trying different beans and roasts, to see which had the worst/best health effects, energy/brain boost, etc. and which tasted the best. I did start with a bit of a bias that less-roasted beans would prove superior, but I tried to keep an open mind and palate.

Plus, the thing that gave me the idea to try the Starbucks brand in particular was that Dave Asprey created an experiment where you could test your brain function after consuming his "Bulletproof" coffee vs. Starbucks coffee. Dave attributed his coffee's superior results to lower mycotoxin content, but neglected to mention that his coffee beans are also some of the lightest (least roasted) on the market. I suspect that the latter is more of a factor. I didn't notice a big difference in mental function between the two myself, and the brain tests were so boring, time consuming and required to be done at such inconvenient times that I quit the experiment before I finished, even though there was a potential reward if I had. Overall, I wasn't impressed with Bulletproof coffee, but it was far superior to the Starbucks dark roast, which was like drinking charcoal water. It's not saying much for a coffee to best "charbucks."
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 08:51:18 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline paper_clips43

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #720 on: October 19, 2013, 10:35:56 pm »
I too have experimented with different types of coffee. I have not had it for several weeks now and hoping to go longer though. When I do partake I use a cold brew machine. Are you familiar with these? Also have you heard of this coffee company Rich Rewards? Supposedly they soak the Raw beans in a brine and then lightly roast them and then re soak them in the brine to absorb the Raw nutrients. Here is a link.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01609/Rich-Rewards-Breakfast-Blend.html

I found less negative symptoms with this coffee and I got high energy levels. So much so that I only consume half the recommended dose when brewing. I suspect the caffeine levels are higher.
Gnawing on bones.

Offline paper_clips43

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #721 on: October 19, 2013, 10:40:23 pm »
Heres a pic of my cold brew machine. BTW where do you get your raw beans?

http://i1317.photobucket.com/albums/t622/paper_clips43/IMG_0734_zpsd95affbd.jpg
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Offline jessica

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #722 on: October 19, 2013, 11:01:22 pm »
Super interesting that you guys bring this up as I have a source for raw coffee beans at the moment.  I roast beans for an injured friend and could easily try an experiment.  Roasted coffee has been horrible for me in the past, but if I get my hands on some beans I'd be willing to do an experiment. 

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #723 on: October 20, 2013, 02:57:35 am »
Hi paper clips, I hadn't heard of the Rich Rewards beans, but that gives me an idea to try brining my own, thanks! Do you know how they do the brining part of the process (not the roasting)?

Yes, I have a special cold-brew machine called a French Press. I don't bother with it anymore, as it's unnecessary when using whole green coffee beans. I tried grinding them, but it made a racket and is probably hard on the coffee grinder. It's also a lot simpler and quicker to just use the whole beans and I'm a simple, lazy man.  :P I strain out the beans from the coffee with an ordinary strainer.

Wow! That's a fancy and huge brewer you're using. Here's an image of my current cold brew machine:


:P

I get my raw beans via Amazon. I tried one pound first, to see if I like them, then 5 pounds once I determined that I do.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline paper_clips43

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Re: PaleoPhil's Journal
« Reply #724 on: October 20, 2013, 04:47:44 am »
I wonder how much caffeine your getting with your method. Ive searched and searched for a caffeine tester although have yet to find one. I actually own a cold brew coffee company that delivers cold brew locally. We get our beans from Guatemala and they are organic. Thats why we use a big one.
Do you heat up the water after you have been soaking them? Also do you use the ordinary amount of two tablespoons per 8 oz cup?
I have always craved coffee as long as I can remember although for the most part go without. I never was sure why exactly. Maybe its the culture around it.
Anyway I unfortunately am not aware of the complete process for soaking the beans in a brine. I couldn't find anything on their website with actual details. I imagine it is some patented process though. I have considered calling Life Extension and asking.
Gnawing on bones.

 

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