Author Topic: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment  (Read 61890 times)

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Offline Inger

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #75 on: June 02, 2010, 08:12:24 pm »
Hi Actionhero,
I have made this experience, that when I eat ZC raw(inkl. occasional greens) I tolerate cooked meat quite well, just a tiny drop in energy, maybe. I have eaten mostly rare meat then, in Restaurants.
BUT. If I eat Fruits(I mean at all, not in the same meal, that I would never do), I get bad reactions from cooked. Like heavy toothpain etc.
How do that comes...?

Do anybody have an explanation?

Inger

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #76 on: June 02, 2010, 10:07:18 pm »
So, honestly, do you feel better or worse then when you were eating fruits?
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline actionhero

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #77 on: June 03, 2010, 04:42:47 am »
So, honestly, do you feel better or worse then when you were eating fruits?

Just as good really, but on zero carb you get these benefits
-a limitless supply of energy, it's there all the time
-better digestion and absorption of nutrients from raw meat/fat
-low insulin levels, more growth hormone secretion, better deeper sleep
-no hunger ever

With fruit you get the short sugar high as your blood glucose levels rise but
-it interferes with optimal digestion of raw meat/fat
-you will experience hunger which is not true hunger but craving for more fruit
-the energy is not a stable constant flow like you experience on ZC
-it is more like a gasoline tank that can be emptied very fast

If nothing changes in 6 months I will not include fruit back in my daily diet. After 2 weeks on ZC I have observed only benefits from dropping fruit. So there you have your answer. 

BUT. If I eat Fruits(I mean at all, not in the same meal, that I would never do), I get bad reactions from cooked. Like heavy toothpain etc.
How do that comes...?

I don't know, maybe they get sensitive from fruit and you only notice it when having to chew something hard like cooked meat.
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Offline miles

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #78 on: June 03, 2010, 05:27:31 am »
What do you mean by 'no hunger ever'...? I don't see how this is possible. Please explain, in detail.

p.s. DANG that is weird. Actionhero, I 'always' thought your pic was of a Gorilla. As I started to think 'Why would a carnivore have a pic of a gorilla' I looked closer and noticed it appeared to be some kind of cat. I'm trying to look at it again and see it as a Gorilla, but I can't now =D
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 05:33:29 am by miles »
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #79 on: June 03, 2010, 07:10:34 am »
ActionHero, I don't know whether there's anything to it, but Dr. Jay Wortman claimed that VLCers/ZCers may need to consume some salt, because he indicated that his patients excreted more salt when they went VLC--and some got constipated, which reportedly resolved with increased salt intake. It hasn't made a noticeable difference in my case, though, but maybe I'm not consuming enough. Since I don't have access to blood (a "Paleo" source of salt), I add sea salt or seaweed (another Paleo source of salt, as well as iodine) to some of my foods.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline miles

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #80 on: June 03, 2010, 09:12:35 am »
I never drank the blood on it's own, but it was SO BRILLIANT when I got this grass-fed beef and it came with LOADS of blood. I would allow it to soak up a load of blood before each bite. The blood even smells so wonderful. It's a shame most places drain the blood out...
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Offline actionhero

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #81 on: June 03, 2010, 06:14:34 pm »
What do you mean by 'no hunger ever'...? I don't see how this is possible. Please explain, in detail.

I have 2 meals a day now, at 8.30 and 16.30. There is about 8 hours between them. I'm never hungry when I start the second meal and I would have no problem not eating until next morning. I have eaten 500gr fatty ground beef in the morning and then skipped the second meal without feeling hungry the whole day or even the next morning.   

ActionHero, I don't know whether there's anything to it, but Dr. Jay Wortman claimed that VLCers/ZCers may need to consume some salt, because he indicated that his patients excreted more salt when they went VLC--and some got constipated, which reportedly resolved with increased salt intake. It hasn't made a noticeable difference in my case, though, but maybe I'm not consuming enough. Since I don't have access to blood (a "Paleo" source of salt), I add sea salt or seaweed (another Paleo source of salt, as well as iodine) to some of my foods.

I don't know how salty blood really is. I remember tasting my own blood sometimes after a cut and it tasted metallic like, never salty. There may be some blood in the ground beef I am buying but not very much. The little salt that was on the meat my mom prepared did cause the surface of my tongue to feel a bit sore so I'm not sure how much we really need. I can't imagine constipation on raw ZC, maybe it happens only on cooked ZC.

You can go a step further and spend as much time as possible outside with as little clothes on as possible.

I do half an hour shirtless sunbathing every day on my balcony when there is sun. Been doing it since the fruitarian period.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8493042.stm
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 06:39:11 pm by actionhero »
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Offline miles

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #82 on: June 03, 2010, 07:02:06 pm »
lol... So that's all people mean..? What bs...
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Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #83 on: June 03, 2010, 09:58:45 pm »
That's one of the things I hate about RZC.. Only eating 1-2 meals a day is so boring... Eating many small meals a day of fruit and lean meat is fun : )
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline KD

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #84 on: June 03, 2010, 10:50:25 pm »
lol... So that's all people mean..? What bs...

I don't think its bs. I'm sure some people mean different things, but there is a huge difference from feeling hungry all the time, and even shortly after eating (that some rightly or wrongly associate with carb consumption) and having to eat scheduled meals because of lack of hunger. My experience is the same, that many days I could probably go without dinner and be fine psychologicaly or in terms of energy. The problem I find is my body does seem to require some fixed amount of substance (calories whathaveyou) to maintain weight so this presents difficulties for myself sometimes just eating meat and fat. Of course carbs never contribute greatly calorically, but if I can squeeze in other animal foods that usually changes things up some.

Offline miles

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #85 on: June 03, 2010, 11:13:44 pm »
Of course, I have the same experience... But to say you 'never get hungry' makes it seem like... you would never get hungry... When actually people mean, they can eat every day, and not be hungry... Which isn't the same as eating a diet where you would never get hungry... It's just because he eats before he gets hungry, and that's less frequently because his meals satiate him for longer. I found it very misleading, up until this point, when people said they never get hungry on ZC. I actually thought there was something wrong with me, that I would get hungry whilst every other ZCer here claims not to... So to say 'on ZC you never get hungry' which many ZC people say, is bs... They'd say stuff like 'I could forget to eat'... This is actually then, because they think they have to eat 3 meals a day, so if I only eat one they think they 'never get hungry' and they've 'forgotten to eat' as if they needed to... I only eat one meal a day... I do get hungry... I eat when I'm hungry... I couldn't understand how it could be a good thing to 'never get hungry', as in hunger, the stomache builds up acids and the digestive system prepares itself in general prepare for food. Yet I seemed to be the only one who got hungry on ZC. I think it's because most ZC people a quoting from one ZC person, who referred to it as 'never getting hungry', perhaps to sell it in some way to people who want to lose weight... Actually, you should say 'I get hungry less frequently than when I ate carbohydrates... They probably like to say 'they never get hungry', because they see hunger as a bad thing, meaning they have to consume calories... whereas I just see it as it is.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 11:22:34 pm by miles »
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Offline KD

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #86 on: June 03, 2010, 11:36:50 pm »
not if you can frame it as it is meant in terms of day to day and implied in comparison to other approaches. You can't extended it into some indefinite space and expect it to maintain true.  

Its like saying " I never burn in the sun or sweat considerably". You can't tie the same person to a pole in the Sahara for a week and expect this to still be true. Other than that, you probably make some good points, especially eating once per day. The issue I'm guessing is whether that hunger is debilitating (like when others complain of low blood sugar and such) that you absolutely had to eat every 24 hours or be unable to function. Other than that it seems from other threads like you really work up an appetite. So I probably would not read too much into what others say in the future, especially if they have different goals and lifestyle. But I think many would argue it isn't just the satiation from food, as in some cases people are eating less calorically and feeling less hungry than with carbs.

Offline actionhero

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #87 on: June 04, 2010, 05:06:48 am »
That's one of the things I hate about RZC.. Only eating 1-2 meals a day is so boring...Eating many small meals a day of fruit and lean meat is fun : )

I don't eat for pleasure. I eat to have energy to perform in the real world, make stuff happen and have a kick ass life. That's what gives me pleasure not the taste of food. To me eating once and having tons of energy the rest of the day is extremely liberating because it allows me to focus on things that are important to me. And since our time on earth is finite everything that frees up time and gives more energy is a good thing. But I see where you are coming from. When I used to eat like that I used to think like that too. Nothing wrong with it, it's raw paleo and anything raw paleo is power, energy and vitality. I just intuitively felt there was some next level and ZC might very well be it.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #88 on: June 04, 2010, 07:30:41 am »
I don't know how much salt is in blood either, but blood does at times taste salty to me and other people have reported that it contains it. I did have chronic constipation (based on the Bristol scale) on raw ZC and still have it on raw VLC (and adding some plant foods didn't help noticeably at all). It nearly resolved for 2-3 weeks on ZC, but then returned (though it's not as bad as it was on SAD, vegetarian and near-vegetarian).
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #89 on: June 04, 2010, 08:28:34 am »
I don't know how much salt is in blood either, but blood does at times taste salty to me and other people have reported that it contains it. I did have chronic constipation (based on the Bristol scale) on raw ZC and still have it on raw VLC (and adding some plant foods didn't help noticeably at all). It nearly resolved for 2-3 weeks on ZC, but then returned (though it's not as bad as it was on SAD, vegetarian and near-vegetarian).

Start eating more fruit and I guarantee you your constipation will vanish.

Mango, oranges and pineapple are specially good. Apples, bananas (starchy fruit) not so great for constipation
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #90 on: June 04, 2010, 04:45:15 pm »
I don't know how much salt is in blood either, but blood does at times taste salty to me and other people have reported that it contains it. I did have chronic constipation (based on the Bristol scale) on raw ZC and still have it on raw VLC (and adding some plant foods didn't help noticeably at all). It nearly resolved for 2-3 weeks on ZC, but then returned (though it's not as bad as it was on SAD, vegetarian and near-vegetarian).
When I was on RZC, my stools were extremely infrequent and very small. I didn't view it as constipation, though, just a sign of nearly complete digestion. I'm just thinking that you might have misinterpreted your results.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 09:56:55 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline miles

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #91 on: June 04, 2010, 09:37:22 pm »
Tyler, I respect how you convey most things in a balanced way.
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Offline actionhero

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #92 on: June 05, 2010, 05:42:54 am »
I didn't view it as constipation, though, just a sign of nearly complete digestion.

I experienced constipation on cooked ZC that included lots of cream and full fat cheese. My digestion now on RZC is better than ever and is nothing like what I experienced before. A lot can change in 6 months but right now it does feel like 'nearly complete digestion' and absorption of nutrients from raw meat/fat. I'll also be adding raw eggs back to see if they are more nourishing now on ZC. Never had problems with them but I considered them a weak food compared to raw meat. But my previous conclusion could be wrong because I had less perfect digestion before ZC.
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Offline actionhero

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #93 on: June 06, 2010, 06:49:08 am »
I just read this interesting article. People who eat fruit may want to read this.

http://main.uab.edu/Sites/MediaRelations/articles/75217/

Quote
"The first meal you have appears to program your metabolism for the rest of the day," said study senior author Martin Young, Ph.D., associate professor of medicine in the UAB Division of Cardiovascular Disease. "This study suggests that if you ate a carbohydrate-rich breakfast it would promote carbohydrate utilization throughout the rest of the day, whereas, if you have a fat-rich breakfast, you have metabolic plasticity to transfer your energy utilization between carbohydrate and fat."

Bray said the research team found that fat intake at the time of waking seems to turn on fat metabolism very efficiently and also turns on the animal's ability to respond to different types of food later in the day. When the animals were fed carbohydrates upon waking, carbohydrate metabolism was turned on and seemed to stay on even when the animal was eating different kinds of food later in the day.

Now I know why I intuitively didn't want to eat high fat on days that I consumed fruit. I had fruit in the morning and then if I had a high fat meal later in the day something felt not right. According to the study if fruit was consumed as your first meal then you can't switch back to a fat burning metabolism that same day. I don't agree with the conclusion that fruit is ok after a high fat meal. From my experience if you want to eat high fat raw it's best to stay zero carb the whole day and then eat fruit the next day. And if you had fruit for breakfast it's best to eat only lean meat that day.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 06:55:56 am by actionhero »
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Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #94 on: June 06, 2010, 10:13:19 am »
I just read this interesting article. People who eat fruit may want to read this.

http://main.uab.edu/Sites/MediaRelations/articles/75217/

Now I know why I intuitively didn't want to eat high fat on days that I consumed fruit. I had fruit in the morning and then if I had a high fat meal later in the day something felt not right. According to the study if fruit was consumed as your first meal then you can't switch back to a fat burning metabolism that same day. I don't agree with the conclusion that fruit is ok after a high fat meal. From my experience if you want to eat high fat raw it's best to stay zero carb the whole day and then eat fruit the next day. And if you had fruit for breakfast it's best to eat only lean meat that day.

Very interesting. Not surprising though, as age old (in the world of genetics) research on e-coli shows that glucose digesting DNA codes are always preferred to other energy molecules. There's something very primal (as in from the bacterial history of all life) to sugar digestion. You might consider it a vestigial function, used in special occasions in some animals (like humans).

Offline actionhero

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #95 on: June 07, 2010, 08:18:43 pm »
Day 19 on zero carb. I'm thriving. I sleep only 5 to 6 hours a day and have more energy and vitality than when I slept 8-9 hours. I'm drinking raw eggs and extracting everything from them. Within 20 minutes after drinking 4 eggs I notice how my vision becomes sharper and colors brighter. This didn't happen after drinking raw eggs when I had fruit in my diet. So this to me is another sign I'm extracting nutrients more efficiently on ZC. Right now all I'm eating is raw lean meat, raw fatty ground beef and raw eggs. The depth of appreciation my body has developed for raw meat/fat has increased even more. I feel it nourishing me more than ever and on a deeper level.

If I could go back and give recommendations to my SAD eating self this would be it:

-3 weeks 100% fruitarian diet to stop chronic inflammation and start CLEANING crap out
-then a couple months of fruit+raw lean meat daily for REGENERATION, REBUILDING and DETOX, plus a zero carb high fat raw day a couple times a month to keep hormone levels high
-once you feel healed switch over to ZC high fat burning metabolism to start THRIVING. A fruit meal a couple times a month is optional and might be beneficial for some minerals and vitamins. Effect of fruit on a 100% fat burning metabolism I will know once I try a fruit meal but right now any craving for sugar is nonexistent.
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Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #96 on: June 08, 2010, 08:38:53 am »
I'm amazed at how fast you seem to have adapted, compared to others accounts. You paint a great picture of the experience, makes me want to try it again.

Offline klowcarb

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #97 on: June 08, 2010, 09:57:22 am »
Yay, I'm glad for another raw ZC success story!  :D

Offline dsohei

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #98 on: June 08, 2010, 01:55:51 pm »
i'm new at this, it sounds great, but could it be an amino acid surplus reaction? also, switching to a vegan diet, or fasting causes a (adrenaline?) rush that slowly ebbs over time - thoughts?
it reminds me of plains indians diets, 100% buffalo, intestines & all.

Offline actionhero

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Re: 6 Month Zero Carb Experiment
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2010, 04:57:26 am »
Something dawned on me today. Maybe it wasn't the sugar in fruit that caused less than optimal digestion of raw meat/fat. It could have been the fiber and the fermentation thereof that was somehow interfering with the digestion and absorption of nutrients (from raw meat/fat). The recent discovery that raw eggs are now being digested and absorbed completely makes me want to experiment even further. I want to try raw grass-fed butter and raw honeycomb. I never got to try Aajonus' famous lubrication formula. It's raw eggs+raw butter+raw honey. I have no intention to do the primal diet all the way as I'm quite certain that I don't want raw milk, raw cheese, raw cream or vegetable juice in my diet.

But I do want to try raw butter, raw honeycomb and high meat on my much improved digestion. If honeycomb doesn't interfere with digestion of raw meat/fat like fruit does then the experiment will become 'zero fruit' and animal foods only. I have no sugar cravings on ZC, just looking again to see if there is a next level. Also I have no intention to eat fruit again. I'm quite certain about this. I'll keep you folks posted. Thanks for reading my journal and commenting with valuable knowledge, it's much appreciated.       
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