Author Topic: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat  (Read 19157 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline OnyxPoet

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« on: June 23, 2010, 05:08:52 pm »
I am asking this because i need easy sources of this. Meat has fat in it thats raw but its incrediby chewy from what i understand and very hard to eat, especially skin. And this would be a problem for me as I intentionally eat fatty cuts and skip out on the lean ones. Am i wrong about fat being too chewy raw?

Either way, its led me to find sources of readily edible sat fat that has not been heated and destroyed. Because of this i eat organic 100% butter straight from the stick and i eat alot of cheese from the market, all natural as far as i know, and i dont cook it. I also eat raw eggs for this very reason of a quick and easy source of the fat that i dont need to cook.

Does anyone else have any sources like this? Any info would be grand as this transition is tough without information and its truly difficult to figure out without experience or help.

As a note to those who dont know, i follow a 70% fat, 27% protein, 3% mainly naturally occuring carbs, all in terms of caloric content. I dont want to rare or even just blue rare my meat since its grain fed and grains like corn expend horid free radicals when heated even just a tad, and i know there is some in it so i need it raw. However, with me not knowing how hard or easy it is to chew raw skin/fat and high amounts of it ... this is kinda difficult, thanks again and farewell for now.

As a side note, i am curious, would a mallet meat tenderizer alleviate the problems with hard to eat raw fat or skin? Also, if so, does beating the hell out of the meat cause the same trouble with the vitamins, protein wall, and enzymes that curing it or cooking it does? Any info would be greatly appreciated because if it wont pwn my meat i wont be so worried about it being raw and incredibly fatty, although easy sources are still wanted :)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 05:21:39 pm by OnyxPoet »
I\'m a hardcore perfectionist about most things, so don\'t be Too shocked if i hit the edit button 50 times :P ...

Offline Hannibal

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2010, 06:21:05 pm »
The hotter the region in the world the more SFA in animals.
The most saturated animal fat is kidney one.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline OnyxPoet

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2010, 06:46:25 pm »
Hm, thank you for your response, so kidney you say ... but my question to that is, wouldn't eating exclusively kidney meats pose a health problem? Like too much iron and kidney stones? And i am considering taking the plunge and finding cheap grass fed meat sources in my area and only eating them once a day, if i can even afford that, though since organ meats are generally cheaper it might actually be plausible. But am i able to eat only organs? Thanks alot and farewell for now.

Edit: as a matter of fact i understand that raw dog food is generally high in organ meat. Anyone know any brands i can buy locally in Ohio that i could eat, fully carnivorous of course and grass fed/organic. If even dog food isn't cheaper, then damn i guess i'll have to find a butcher to sell me the stuff but since its organ who knows ... might be cheap.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 06:58:18 pm by OnyxPoet »
I\'m a hardcore perfectionist about most things, so don\'t be Too shocked if i hit the edit button 50 times :P ...

Offline Hannibal

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2010, 07:19:34 pm »
I meant fat that is around the kidneys.
Besides that's not good to eat lots of SFA with too little MUFA. The cell mebranes would become to stiff.
You should eat all kinds of fats in animal - those which are more saturated and those which are more unsaturated. That balance is the best option. :)
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline djr_81

  • Hakuna Matata
  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,246
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Facebook
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2010, 07:25:34 pm »
The more saturated the raw fat the chewier it is but none of them are terribly difficult to eat.
Egg yolks are the softest/easiest to eat. Raw bone marrow is very soft, almost like butter when warm. Hide fat, muscle fat, etc are the middle ground and again aren't terribly stiff/chewy. Suet is the hardest fat and can be as chewy as bubble gum.

Be careful with the butter and cheese. Unless you've spoken with the vendor yourself you really need to assume it's been heated to a detrimental point, even if it's labeled as raw (which it probably isn't if you're buying at a supermarket).

Go here to make your search easier for good quality meat: http://www.eatwild.com/
https://www.facebook.com/djr1981
As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler; solitude will not be solitude, poverty will not be poverty, nor weakness weakness.
-Henry David Thoreau

Offline OnyxPoet

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2010, 08:06:49 pm »
I have zero fears of saturated fats :) , i have my sources so i'm doing whats best for me and has been for my family and many well known friends for years. Also, i dont plan for it to ALL be saturated of course, as you said, its about balance. I intentionally include sources of monounsat daily, though i dont care as much for poly unless i can get it trusted to NOT be heated because of its low strength against heat and the evil that progresses when its ingested that way. Not to mention its high carb sources.
(I think its pretty obvious you weren't saying saturated fat is bad for you lol, just being clear about my standpoint on it)

I will check out that website, i truly appreciate it and i do hope its helpful to me. It sucks that i know you are right and no, i can't find Raw Butter or Raw milk Anywhere in Ohio; its rather infuriating honestly. But if what you say is true about the butter, i know that each type of fat stands up to heat differently, saturated being the most stable which i believe explains coconut oils incredibly high smoke point.

 Is the heat they deliver to the fats, if mainly saturated, truly breaking down the entirety of their compositional benefits? To be honest even with hours of research its hard to find very specific info on this topic, as for so many years the industry has been fed bull crap about the insult of saturated fats.

 Either way, thanks again, to the both of you :). Farewell, for now.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 09:14:08 pm by OnyxPoet »
I\'m a hardcore perfectionist about most things, so don\'t be Too shocked if i hit the edit button 50 times :P ...

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2010, 07:59:18 am »
People sometimes get angry when someone says this (especially at the ZIOH forum), but I can't please everyone and value honesty more than popularity, so I'll admit that I also find that intramuscular fat is hard to chew and swallow. I have a much easier time with suet, and marrow is even easier still. Suet took some time to get used to, but intramuscular fat is taking longer and I still have trouble chewing beef intramuscular fat (though I no longer have trouble with pork chop fat, which is softer) and tend to gag on it and upchuck it, despite wanting to be able to eat it. So when I eat whole cuts of beef that have thick strips of intramuscular fat, I tend to chop it into small chunks.

Is it just coincidence that wild animals have much less intramuscular fat than domesticated animals? It seems that the healthier the animal, the more it will tend to store its fat around the kidneys and in the marrow and brain and less within the muscles. Think about it, would you want fat in your muscle areas or more muscle so you could be stronger and have a firmer, more powerful look? I don't buy the ZIOH claim that there's no problem for animals of humans with intramuscular fat. It's not natural and, like Nassim Taleb points out, "a few billion years is vastly more proof than a thousand days of survival, and the oldest system around is clearly Mother Nature."

Is it also just coincidence that Paleoanthropologists have found evidence that marrow and brain fat were a highly preferred staple food source for proto-humans? It wouldn't surprise me at all if brain and marrow turn out to be the healthiest of all fat sources, and there is already some evidence that they are.

I eat plenty of SFA- and MUFA-rich suet and marrow for close to a year now and haven't gotten kidney stones. I've never seen kidney stones linked to fat anyway--they're usually linked to excess protein intake, dehydration, magnesium deficiency and other factors--so carnivores should make sure to get enough fat, water and Mg and avoid protein excess.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 08:10:45 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline KD

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,930
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2010, 08:50:07 am »

Is it just coincidence that wild animals have much less intramuscular fat than domesticated animals? It seems that the healthier the animal, the more it will tend to store its fat around the kidneys and in the marrow and brain and less within the muscles. Think about it, would you want fat in your muscle areas or more muscle so you could be stronger and have a firmer, more powerful look? I don't buy the ZIOH claim that there's no problem for animals of humans with intramuscular fat. It's not natural and, like Nassim Taleb points out, "a few billion years is vastly more proof than a thousand days of survival, and the oldest system around is clearly Mother Nature."


I totally agree on this one, healthy active animals would have little intramuscular fat. When I eat even lean pastured meats the cheap cuts tend still to have alot of fat that ends up as colorless wads on my plate at the end. This never happens with bison meat. I guess some of the more expensive cuts might avoid this 'issue' and also somewhat contrary the slabs of fat at the periphery seem to be the most digestible of all animal fats for me. I will swallow alot the intramuscular stuff from time to time and it doesn't seem to cause indigestion or anything but usually pass on it.

Marrow is pretty expensive for me as I have to order it and get screwed by the weight. At the most I can eat 2 4" bones a day. I don't have the greatest success stories with suet, but then again I don't chew it very well. My experience with tongue is that is is mostly muscle meat so I never quite understand when that is listed as a fat.

Offline klowcarb

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 581
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2010, 09:19:58 am »
I loooooooooove the raw fat on the side of a raw steak, like a NY strip. I just chew it right off! I also love intermuscular fat. I love raw bone marrow, too. My marrow is $2.29 a pound. I tend to get about 6-8 ounces of marrow per container (I weigh all of my food before eating).

Offline djr_81

  • Hakuna Matata
  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,246
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Facebook
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2010, 09:27:16 am »
Marrow is pretty expensive for me as I have to order it and get screwed by the weight. At the most I can eat 2 4" bones a day.
It's very nutrient dense so it's not surprising you can't eat more than that. The most I ever had in a day was 5 and I felt bloated by that. 4 seems to be my comfortable limit and this is only if I haven't had marrow in a while.

Quote
My experience with tongue is that is is mostly muscle meat so I never quite understand when that is listed as a fat.
The first third is pretty much solid protein as it's the most worked part of the muscle.
The second third is fattier but still fairly worked over so might be a 50/50 split.
The last third is a solid block of very fatty meat. This is the part people are talking about when they say it's really fatty. :)

I love raw bone marrow, too. My marrow is $2.29 a pound. I tend to get about 6-8 ounces of marrow per container (I weigh all of my food before eating).
Is that grass-fed/finished marrow? If so that's a great deal you've found. I spend $5 a pound on it myself at my market and think I'm paying less than it's worth. :)
https://www.facebook.com/djr1981
As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler; solitude will not be solitude, poverty will not be poverty, nor weakness weakness.
-Henry David Thoreau

Offline KD

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,930
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2010, 09:46:07 am »
I meant mostly due to rationing/cost. You may be right as I don't know if I ever had much more than that though, but I tried using just marrow (so maybe 2-3) per day as a fat and I just ended up losing weight. I've never actually tried to weigh it or anything else but from eyeballing it can't be more than 1/3 lb per 3 bone package on average. Also some bones have next to nothing in them which is a real downer. Some very thin or don't pass through, and that is just the leg bones. don't get mes started on knuckle bones! :) I've heard of some people getting grass finished bones free from local farms or butchers but there is nothing like that in my area. I think the actual price per lb on mine is fairly cheap and its more the weight shipping, so I suspect some local farms might get into the 1-2 dollar range. I think the WF bones are usually more expensive (grain-fed) maybe at $3 or so.

Yeah I see what you mean about the tongue, I ate all 4lbs of mine (err not at once) and overall by percentage it just didn't seem like you'd get the kind of fat percentages some here shoot for esp along with other pure muscle meats, so it seems to be in a different league as far as supplementary fats to pure fat or SFA sources.

Offline OnyxPoet

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2010, 12:49:45 pm »
Damn this is not so good news for me as my high fat intake doesn't sound like it goes so well with raw, not so lean muscle. From what i am reading its difficult to chew and swallow large amounts of raw fat. And for me, too much protein without adequate sat and mono unsat fat is not a good thing.

Sadly, I think I must count my blessings and be thankful that sat fat stands up incredibly well to heat and get my monounsat from raw, purely natural and somewhat annoyingly expensive, though well within my price range, peanut butter (among other sources), which, my goodness, is Very thick and tasteless lol.

But yeah, this lifestyle sounds like its for survival of the fittest ( or most financially stable ) type a deal ... with my high fat need, and low budget, sadly i dont know if i can do this raw meat thing. Unless its lean muscle, which is not what i want too much of, it doesn't seem nearly as easy as others say. I hope i can be given info encouraging me otherwise but if not, i wont allow "perfect" to be the enemy of "good". I'll die eventually, whether today or 70 years from now, doesn't matter much to me. I just want my lived life to be good, but it doesnt have to be amazingly, stupendously perfect.

I'll take my supplements from raw food sources, probiotics, raw eggs when i can get em fresh, virgin coconut oil ( pretty sure i can't even afford THIS and i prioritize food over anything else in my budget besides rent and other bills ) to lightly fry rare cooked meats in, and anti-oxidants to fight the free radicals caused by heated fats.

But with ground being so much more affordable for me in its grain fed form ( i wouldn't even trust Grass fed meat raw if it was ground ), and since it has to be cooked through to kill the related bacteria ( since its ground)  ... i feel kinda ill-prepared in this regard.

But maybe there is hope yet for the optimal lifestyle ... maybe you guys have poor man ideas or options that fit my tweak. However, if not, i loved the forum and the people, and i thank you all so much for taking the time to speak with me. I appreciate it, truly, and i wish you all the best.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 01:02:13 pm by OnyxPoet »
I\'m a hardcore perfectionist about most things, so don\'t be Too shocked if i hit the edit button 50 times :P ...

Offline Hannibal

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2010, 01:35:36 pm »
I'll admit that I also find that intramuscular fat is hard to chew and swallow.
It depends on the animal. For example the intramascular fat in horse meat is very easy to chew, it's like butter - I love it. :)
The next example is the wild boar bacon - the fat inside the muscle is usually very easy to chew.
Quote
Is it just coincidence that wild animals have much less intramuscular fat than domesticated animals? It seems that the healthier the animal, the more it will tend to store its fat around the kidneys and in the marrow and brain and less within the muscles.

Wild boar has got a lot of fat stored within the muscles.
Quote
Think about it, would you want fat in your muscle areas

Intramuscular triglicerides are very good source of quick energy.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline Savage

  • Trapper
  • **
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2010, 02:03:30 pm »
Poor Man Ideas:

1-) Find grain-fed meat wholesalers

They sell to the public, lot of it is frozen and sometimes you might notice the taste difference, BUT, it will be cheap and available on a budget, in fact, some meat which is called "HEAD MEAT" from IBP (meat company) is nothing more than steak pieces that were not processed, pressed together, it is low as $1.5/lb containing the same fat/protein ratio as a ribeye, I have 45-50lbs in my deep freezer.

2-) Buy some Carlson's fish oil

I got this idea from Lex Rooker, when eating grain-fed meat, supplement with O-3s, gel caps are shit, use the liquid fish oil, get the biggest kind to save the most, open cap, fill cap with oil, do it once daily, that's what I do since I eat raw grain-fed, supermarket meat only.

3-)Buy a deep freezer

Cheap things come in bulk, meat, electronics accessories and college girls. You can only fit so much in your fridge's freezer, say you spot a really good deal, but no space.....you miss out, I got my deep freezer which holds 150-200lbs of meat (depending on the way it's cut/packaging) for a $100 brand new.

4-)Look for deals where others don't look

Forget the weekly AD, that's for idiots, look for meat that's past due 2morrow, bargain to buy the whole lot for a discount price, I've eaten raw grain-fed supermarket meat in my fridge that was 3 months past the "SELL BY" freeze it if you want, talk to butchers around your area, they are way more helpful and personal than the big supermarkets, because they usually own the place and can do whatever they want when dealing with you.

5-) Hunt your meat

Depending on where you live, if you can legally kill animals, do it, sometimes the cost will be higher than the cheapest meat you can get when you factor in gas, permits, lodging if you're not camping, etc.... do your math first.


Just keep your eyes open and exploit whatever you can in your surrounding environment. I'd love to be able to custom order what I want or drive to the local organic shop to buy the $500/lb steaks, but right now, I can't do that, you can either make excuses and quit or compromise and find a way to make it work, your call.


The next example is the wild boar bacon - the fat inside the muscle is usually very easy to chew.  

For example the intramascular fat in horse meat is very easy to chew, it's like butter - I love it.

99% of the meat I eat is beef, but sometimes, I just can't help it and have to eat some raw pork fat......that stuff tastes soooo good, especially those boneless country style ribs and sausage.

I've only had horse meat once, it was cooked, but it tasted very good, I wouldn't mind devouring a whole pony.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 04:34:17 pm by Savage »

Offline OnyxPoet

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2010, 03:33:09 pm »
WoW O_O ... those Poor man ideas really assesed my problem. Its amazing how much attention you paid to my issue and the fact that you eat raw, grain fed cuts makes me incredibly happy lol. I am enthused beyond belief XD that i dont need perfect, grass fed beef in order to make this work.

As soon as i can i will head on out and buy some cheap cuts of grain fed beef, and eat them raw for the first time in my life. They are cheap, and who knows, maybe the fat wont be so bad so, i'll try it before i knock it. It'll be nice to finally be doing something RIGHT for a change, not to mention hey, if i can't get Really fatty pieces who cares. There are plenty of other raw sources of fat i can eat, like pure pork backfat which is crazy cheap at my Jungle Jim's store ... though its cured so i think i might renig on that statement lol.

Either way your diagram of guidance was just enough encouragement for me. I ate 3 raw eggs for the first time in my life a few days ago ... i felt amazing and couldnt even eat anything else until late that night and i had eaten it early in the morning. I cant imagine how raw Meat will feel lol. THANK YOU!!!

P.S. I ask this to anyone who can answer, i have been curious about bacon for awhile, if its low sodium and no sugar ... can i eat it raw? Or is bacon falling into category with the other processed, full of crap bad for you things?

Seems i can just eat raw pork backfat instead if the sodium is ok and didnt Totally compormise the beauty of the fat. Could also eat virgin coconut oil with a spoon i spose. And as i understand it, 70% or higher dark chocolate ( with little or no sugar added) has a high caloric and Very high sat fat content, though i ma need more research on it and yes i know its not really a paleo food. If i am too Nazi about this though i wont be able to ease into it.

Honestly after the poor man list i have the courage to do whatever the hell i want now lol, but i am inCREDIBLY inquisitive, and hours of research on google for this topic can get tiring after awhile :). Thanks again, and farewell to all for now.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 04:49:50 pm by OnyxPoet »
I\'m a hardcore perfectionist about most things, so don\'t be Too shocked if i hit the edit button 50 times :P ...

Offline Savage

  • Trapper
  • **
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2010, 05:05:30 pm »
I wouldn't eat the pork back fat, unless it's sold as "raw" like steaks, roasts, etc..... then Big Brother comes into play and fucks it up, don't buy meat from Walmart, that's the worst meat I've ever had, more than once.

I ate some "raw" (smoked/cured) bacon a couple of months ago, diarrhea 2-3 hours later, avoid it, commercial lard is also "tainted" not to mention cooked, avoid it. You can make your own lard, but it involves cooking.

The vast majority of the people here cannot create the ideal conditions and food for their everyday living, you simply do what the best you feasibly can, not say "Oh, I can't do it perfectly like it should be, I'm gonna go eat Mcdonald's."

I overlooked a part of your last post, you said you can only get lean meat on your budget, if that's the case, then fat is either FREE or extremely cheap, ask your supermarket butcher/meat dept. or a real butcher to save/sell you some, then just add the fish oil, I drink the cap all at once with or without food, although with food would be the best option IMO, but I drink it separately for convenience.

Since it's your first time eating raw meat, I would just eat whatever cut you like the most cooked (low fat cuts like round steak would be too much chewing though) or some fresh ground steak, try it plain, add some salt & pepper if you must, I'd rather you ease yourself into it and stick to it later, than dive in and abandon it because it was too much at once.


Offline Hannibal

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2010, 05:39:58 pm »
I ate some "raw" (smoked/cured) bacon a couple of months ago, diarrhea 2-3 hours later, avoid it
But true raw (not cured) bacon (that fatty part of the animal) is really good.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline OnyxPoet

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2010, 06:10:58 pm »
Ah i see heheh, seems i still have quite a bit to learn before i go rushing into everything. The purity of the raw foodists lifestyle is in the lack of processing or treating. I suppose in that case i'll have to basically cleanse my brain of what i was raised on and accept this new mentality. I will admit i am scared to death of getting sick, but i wont let that fear stop me from seeing how far I can go with this and at least trying it. I already don't touch grain and take enzyme/amino acid supplements and well made cod liver fish oil everyday, and eat sea kelp for its massive mineral and vitamin category.

However, i've only been doing the above stated for about 1 week. Therefore i cant tell much of a difference just yet. I still have so many questions and so many misunderstandings you know? I am genuinely weighed down with a sense of confusion about health in general. I know if i ever get sick i'll grab a chunk of high meat instantly because i believe in its healing properties, much like the probiotics i take i'd guess.

But the thing that keeps hitting me in the face is, why is it that people are able to be relatively healthy with moreso, not fully, cooked foods; living to be 90 or older without eating raw meat or animal fat. I think whats getting me is my stupid question, what is THE way to live, but it seems smarter for me to assume there are Many ways to live. 

I am an overweight guy, at about 312 pounds, i am not a couch potato as i move around loads and used to bodybuild constantly so i'm still able to bench my own weight and do straneous exercise. However, I fear getting diabetes soon and am always tired and lethargic which is why i stopped the grains/sugars or carbs. Then i get jealous when i see people who are much older living happy lives who dont deny themselves carbs or grains/sugars. In the end i am miserably pissed off, some say its exercise that does it, others say its lifestyle and food choice or a mix of both.

I think i am trying to find a formula to lose the weight, gain more energy, and be happier with how i feel. I guess when i compare a no carb/grain/low sugar lifestyle with my crazy "eat whole wheat its good for you" entire life brainwashing ... i should feel amazing soon once my body gets good at converting fat to energy. But after upping my protein and fat i hear they can be overcooked and how they are dangerous/worthless and so i jumped to this new to me idea of raw, and it starts all over again.

In the end, it seems the questions i have for this life are taxing and incredibly personal, as well as hard to answer. So many X-factors and impossible genetic coding ... it tends to drive me to insanity. But either way, i am going to give this raw meat a try. Who knows, i may feel amazing and shed pounds, but i may also be an unlucky booger who just sucks in this aspect of life. As always, thanks for the info, i'll give it a shot as soon as i can.
I\'m a hardcore perfectionist about most things, so don\'t be Too shocked if i hit the edit button 50 times :P ...

Offline djr_81

  • Hakuna Matata
  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,246
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Facebook
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2010, 07:40:40 pm »
But the thing that keeps hitting me in the face is, why is it that people are able to be relatively healthy with moreso, not fully, cooked foods; living to be 90 or older without eating raw meat or animal fat. I think whats getting me is my stupid question, what is THE way to live, but it seems smarter for me to assume there are Many ways to live. 
It's a mix of thing. Avoiding processed foods and favoring "whole" foods can add longevity. Caloric restriction can add longevity. Everyone has slight differences in their bodies so there's not really a one size fits all reason why certain people thrive on certain foods.

Quote
I am an overweight guy, at about 312 pounds, i am not a couch potato as i move around loads and used to bodybuild constantly so i'm still able to bench my own weight and do straneous exercise. However, I fear getting diabetes soon and am always tired and lethargic which is why i stopped the grains/sugars or carbs. Then i get jealous when i see people who are much older living happy lives who dont deny themselves carbs or grains/sugars. In the end i am miserably pissed off, some say its exercise that does it, others say its lifestyle and food choice or a mix of both.

I think i am trying to find a formula to lose the weight, gain more energy, and be happier with how i feel. I guess when i compare a no carb/grain/low sugar lifestyle with my crazy "eat whole wheat its good for you" entire life brainwashing ... i should feel amazing soon once my body gets good at converting fat to energy. But after upping my protein and fat i hear they can be overcooked and how they are dangerous/worthless and so i jumped to this new to me idea of raw, and it starts all over again.

In the end, it seems the questions i have for this life are taxing and incredibly personal, as well as hard to answer. So many X-factors and impossible genetic coding ... it tends to drive me to insanity. But either way, i am going to give this raw meat a try. Who knows, i may feel amazing and shed pounds, but i may also be an unlucky booger who just sucks in this aspect of life. As always, thanks for the info, i'll give it a shot as soon as i can.
I know where you're coming from and the impetus to improve your health/avoid future problems. I'm an average build but my wife is in basically the same boat you are. She's eating similar to your proposed diet but with the addition of lightly cooked seafood & veggies and raw fruits. She's feeling better, loosing weight slowly but steadily, and hopeful for the future.
Give raw a shot and see how you do. We're all here if you have any questions or just need encouragement.
Here's a link to another forum (http://www.dirtycarnivore.com/, a ZC forum, which may also be supportive for you in this endeavor.
The thing to realize is you're embarking on a way of eating which walks the line between two ideals; carbs are bad for the body and cooking/processing is bad for the body. People are going to have differing opinions on which of the two is more important and the scale of importance between the two. I personally feel the raw/unprocessed approach is more healing to the body and carbs are fine for some people out there so long as they're raw (even though I can't eat them myself).
https://www.facebook.com/djr1981
As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler; solitude will not be solitude, poverty will not be poverty, nor weakness weakness.
-Henry David Thoreau

Offline Hannibal

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,261
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2010, 07:45:44 pm »
People are going to have differing opinions on which of the two is more important and the scale of importance between the two. I personally feel the raw/unprocessed approach is more healing to the body and carbs are fine for some people out there so long as they're raw (even though I can't eat them myself).
Some people that I know do better with the cooked carbs (e.g. veggies) than with raw fruits and honey
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline OnyxPoet

  • Egg Thief
  • **
  • Posts: 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2010, 03:15:08 am »
Wow, my wife was sitting next to me while i read the two replies and she smiled and said "people are so nice and encouraging on that forum" lol. I must say I totally agree. No one seems to be nazi-esque towards me, and my slow, but steady acceptance seems to be tolerated.

 I truly do appreciate the encouragement of this forum, of the people in it. This community is obviously enlightened and much nicer than the jerks i generally end up meeting otherwise in my walks of life. Thank you all for the support and encouragement, truly its a big help and as always, its appreciated.

I'll post soon with results after we get paid on friday and purchase some meat. I'll respond to the forum and let you know my progress, for those who are interested anyway lol. Farewell all, for now :)
I\'m a hardcore perfectionist about most things, so don\'t be Too shocked if i hit the edit button 50 times :P ...

Offline actionhero

  • Bear Hunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 196
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2010, 04:13:54 am »
I truly do appreciate the encouragement of this forum, of the people in it. This community is obviously enlightened and much nicer than the jerks i generally end up meeting otherwise in my walks of life. Thank you all for the support and encouragement, truly its a big help and as always, its appreciated.

It's really a reflection of who we have become as a result of this diet. We got so much energy that everyone we come in contact with we try to lift to a higher level of being so they can too experience these levels of health, energy and vitality. If there are disagreements it is mostly to discover what is reality and what is illusion, it's almost never about ego. So enjoy, read, ask and eat your way to health.
A P E X   P R E D A T O R

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2010, 10:33:01 am »
peanut butter
fyi: PB is neither raw nor Paleo/ancestral and even many standard nutritionists recognize that it is an unhealthy food with its hydrogenated vegetable fats and sugars, as well as the pro-inflammatory lectin content of the peanuts. Depending on your sensitivities, you're probably better off with suet, marrow (expensive/lb. when you consider that most of the weight that you pay for is bones), raw cod liver oil (expensive), extra virgin coconut oil, EV avocado oil (expensive), and EV olive oil. For the poor man, suet is often the best option. Even grassfed suet is relatively cheap where I live ($1.90/lb of nearly pure fat--it also contains some connective tissue).

Quote
maybe you guys have poor man ideas or options
Check out bulk prices, try to acclimate yourself to eating lots of suet and organs and less lean meat, ask around for free or low cost stuff that producers/retailers throw away (ex: I was recently given free elk liver by a farmer who sells, elk meat, venison, etc.), and drink free tap water for beverage (some here warn strongly against tap water, but if low cost is a high priority, you can't get cheaper than free).

Quote
i have been curious about bacon for awhile, if its low sodium and no sugar
I forgot about bacon as a fat source. Read the ingredients on the packages. Most bacon has some sort of sweetener added--like dextrin or maple sugar. It's still better than most foods, though--especially if eaten raw. I have trouble eating cheap bacon, though (I tend to choke on it). The only bacons I've been able to eat raw are the super high quality expensive ones like uncured duck bacon and local uncured, pastured, cob-smoked pork bacon. They taste 100x better than cheap bacon (it's a lot easier to tell the difference in taste when you eat bacon raw) and don't choke me as much. If you can stomach eating cheap bacon raw, then that's another relatively cheap source of fat for you, though supermarket pork belly would probably be cheaper, if available (pork belly has become very popular in restaurants around the country, but they cook it, of course).

Quote
dark chocolate ( with little or no sugar added)
dark chocolate already contains sugar--not recommended for anything other than an occasional treat. I eat some once in a while, but chocolate that's lower in sugar and high in cacao gives me a stomach ache if I eat more than a few squares without eating lots of other food with it to buffer the stomach against the chocolate (I may be particularly sensitive because of my past history of gastritis). Dark chocolate is also very expensive per lb. If you can't afford marrow and grassfed meat then you can't afford to eat a lot of chocolate.

If raw pork back fat is available, that should also be good a decent source of fat, and raw pork belly, if you can eat these fats raw. I tried pork belly, but couldn't manage to eat it raw.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline King Salmon

  • Elder
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating the best realistic diet
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2010, 04:17:02 pm »
Wow,that bacon idea seems really cool! If it's smoked though,doesn't that make it "cooked" or "processed"? Don't they usually have preservatives and other crap added in there? otherwise,bacon is generally inexpensive and tastes great.I'll be on the lookout for a decent source of it.Any suggestions of brands let me know,Thanks
"Eat the best of what's available and call it a day"

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Sources of raw, HIGH amounts of Sat. Fat
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2010, 06:53:09 pm »
Wow,that bacon idea seems really cool! If it's smoked though,doesn't that make it "cooked" or "processed"? Don't they usually have preservatives and other crap added in there? otherwise,bacon is generally inexpensive and tastes great.I'll be on the lookout for a decent source of it.Any suggestions of brands let me know,Thanks
"Traditionally, bacon is cold smoked. The goal is to apply smoke to the meat without cooking it. That means keeping the temperature well under 150° F." http://cruftbox.com/blog/archives/001573.html

Yeah, I know, under 150° F doesn't meat the standards of raw here, and bacon isn't a pure RPD food, but uncured, cold-smoked, preservative-free bacon (http://www.dartagnan.com/Search.aspx?key=bacon, http://www.igourmet.com/shoppe/prodview.aspx?prod=3740) is a heck of a lot better source of fat than peanut butter. That being said, the better quality bacon is pricey and it's still a second-rate food, so in my case it's more of a treat and flavoring than a staple fat source, and unfortunately the cobb-smoked bacon does have some maple sugar added, so I tend to get the more expensive duck bacon. Both taste much lower in salt than most bacons and to my palate the difference in quality vs. cheap supermarket bacon is substantial.

Quote
"D’Artagnan Pekin Duck comes from a family farm in Pennsylvania, where they are raised to our specifications. The farmers go to great lengths to maintain a healthy environment for the ducks. They are raised in spacious barns that protect them from extreme weather conditions, predators and disease. The ducks have plenty of space to roam about and have access to fresh water and feed.  Our ducks are not fed antibiotics, steroids, hormones or other growth stimulants.  The farm takes great care with the ducks, not just because they’re a livelihood, but because it’s the right thing to do." --D'Artagnan



Don't be fooled by VT Smoke and Cure's name, I buy their uncured version: "And we now also offer uncured bacon made from pork raised without antibiotics. Natural bacon, naturally made with only celery juice and sea salt as the source for nitrates." http://www.vtsmokeandcure.com/bacon-natural-c-249.html


Quote
the New York Times described it as “possibly the finest bacon on the planet.” --VT Smoke and Cure
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 07:12:00 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk