Author Topic: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?  (Read 21760 times)

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Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2010, 11:53:24 pm »
Exact same thing happened to me.

Before my fast I couldn't touch dairy, same reasons as you.. I could just feel my lymph nodes swelling up and my ears getting stuffy. But after the fast I couldn't feel a thing.

what breed of cow was it

that is hugely important . avoid black and white holsteins as a general rule


Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2010, 12:37:33 am »
Human breast milk has casein in it

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2010, 01:00:57 am »
Human breast milk has casein in it
Irrelevant as  it is the amount of casein that is important. Human milk has far lower levels of casein than cows' milk etc.

The A1 and A2 issue is also a scam since those allergic to raw dairy often report trying milk from only A2 cows and still experiencing problems with the  stuff.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2010, 01:09:51 am »
Irrelevant as  it is the amount of casein that is important. Human milk has far lower levels of casein than cows' milk etc.

The A1 and A2 issue is also a scam since those allergic to raw dairy often report trying milk from only A2 cows and still experiencing problems with the  stuff.

Doesn't make it a scam
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2010, 01:16:18 am »
Doesn't make it a scam
It is a scam as a NZ company is planning to profit from this by making up new stories about how supposedly wonderful A2 milk is, and they then plan to corner the market.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2010, 02:16:25 am »
It is a scam as a NZ company is planning to profit from this by making up new stories about how supposedly wonderful A2 milk is, and they then plan to corner the market.

Perhaps, but this phenomena is real non the less.. I've just been reading some independent Icelandic studies on the matter and they pretty much confirm that it's real. And the studies are over 12 years old. So it's not some fad.
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2010, 02:47:16 am »
It is a fad. Here is a relevant article:-

http://www.redmountainspa.com/_health_education_fitness/articles/a2milk.php

The article describes the vested interests behind the A2 scam. As for studies, many companies hire scientists to do bogus studies confirming their own lies, means nothing.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Brother

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2010, 03:00:23 am »
The article describes the vested interests behind the A2 scam. As for studies, many companies hire scientists to do bogus studies confirming their own lies, means nothing.

It has the same ring to it as this load of fertilizer http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ewi/liquidew.html really took rounds in the BB community (the principle not this particular brand). Take a look at the salespitch:

"The human body cannot completely and safely digest a raw egg white. So, if you like to do the "Rocky Routine" with a raw egg or raw egg white in your drink, you are wasting your time, not to mention the threat of Salmonella. Avidin, which is found in raw egg whites, blocks the uptake of Vitamin B6 (Biotin) causing a vitamin deficiency. You must cook the egg white to neutralize the Avidin and allow your body to safely digest the protein and utilize all its Amino acids."

See what I mean?

Offline yuli

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2010, 03:01:31 am »
If someone is eager to eat dairy then it's better to eat some rotten aged cheese (from goat or sheep) or Casu Marzu.
That could be paleo food as some milk deposited in the cave by an animal could have converted into some rotten moldy "thing" ;)

Heh I like that idea/concept.

The cheese I get is cheddar aged at least 3 years (it tastes so strong its unbelievable, its impossible to eat a lot)...it has no lactose in it at that point so I don't know how I would even react to lactose now. This cheese just tastes and feels like strong, hard, rotten butter really  :o

The diet cured my pimples completely and eating some of this cheese has not caused any pimples to come back, I judge what I am eating by my skin, my skin is very reactive and when I eat something wrong I can tell right away by my skin. Also my teeth are super solid so far...

I don't find the old cheese addictive at all like people claim with milk...I can not have it for a week and I am fine, then I have some and I also feel great. I don't think I'll ever drink milk (unless its like shot once in a blue moon), that does not seem natural/realistic, I would though like to taste some real cream sometime, that must be tasty  ;)

I was thinking of leaving a piece the cheese out of the fridge to get some mold and rot more, I'll try that it seems like a cool experiment.

I think raw cheese aged that long and rotted can no longer be compared to cream/milk etc...they seem like very different things to me really.

Also about the issue of too much calcium and too little magnesium, a small piece of aged cheese does not have a LOT of calcium really, it just has a normal amount. Fresh blood has lots of good calcium, unfortunately I don't have lots of fresh blood as I don't hunt, so the small amount of cheese can maybe replace the fresh blood...hmmm? I often eat some raw pumpkin seeds, brocolli and sometimes halibut, which are all rich in magnesium, and I eat those in way greater quantities then the cheese. Oysters and raw peanuts (yes I know peanuts are so BAAAAD  ;)) also contain magnesium... Also its too easy to sprinkle some high quality magnesium on your piece of cheese if you're that worried. Good magnesium tastes great by the way!

Offline Brother

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2010, 03:15:35 am »

Quote
I was thinking of leaving a piece the cheese out of the fridge to get some mold and rot more, I'll try that it seems like a cool experiment.

You may get dissapointed. Controlling the bacteria and molds is key to the difference between a cheese and lump of rotten milk. It does not take long for a cheese to get a rancid taste if left out. while you experiment, you can also try some of the cheeses that are deliberately infected but under control. cheeses like Stilton, Dana Bleu, Gorgonzola, Mon Bierre. Go to a specialist store and get intstructions.

If you get some raw milk, try this out. Pour some of it in a deep plate. Add a tiny amount of buttermilk. Leave it out on the table for a day or two. Pour off the water and eat the soured milk. It tastes delicious. And reaches highers states with a bit of honey!

If you try the same trick btw, with pasterized milk, it just rots and turns foul smelling.

Offline ster546464@yahoo.co.uk

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2010, 04:40:47 am »
http://www.redmountainspa.com/_health_education_fitness/articles/a2milk.php

Its the pasteurised they should be worried about, not a1 or 2.

rding to Professor Bob, mice fed A1 milk developed high levels of diabetes whereas those who consumed A2 milk did not – music to the ears of A2 marketers. A2 proponents also like to point to the strong, worldwide link of A1 milk consumption to disease, with only weaker health threats associated with A2.


did they mention whether they used raw milk or pasteurised milk in the test on mice ?
and any dairy imported from new zealand will have to be pasteurised !! unless its cheese, the law wont allow fresh raw dairy to be imported


Offline yuli

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2010, 05:44:58 am »
Irrelevant as  it is the amount of casein that is important. Human milk has far lower levels of casein than cows' milk etc.

How much casein does goat and sheep milk have compared to cows then?
And do you think all people react the same to casein ingestion?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2010, 06:20:20 am »
How much casein does goat and sheep milk have compared to cows then?
And do you think all people react the same to casein ingestion?
No idea re exact proportions. I think that goat milk has less casein in it than cows milk, not sure though.

One thing I have heard is that the milk of some animals, such as wolves' milk is so high in casein that human babies are unable to  properly digest it, and so would die from consuming the stuff.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2010, 06:31:45 am »
...As for studies, many companies hire scientists to do bogus studies confirming their own lies, means nothing.
Speaking of which...

Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science
Much of what medical researchers conclude in their studies is misleading, exaggerated, or flat-out wrong. So why are doctors—to a striking extent—still drawing upon misinformation in their everyday practice? Dr. John Ioannidis has spent his career challenging his peers by exposing their bad science.

>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2010, 01:35:32 pm »
Vitamin B6 (Biotin)   
Biotin is not a vitamin B6!
It's called vitamin H or vitamin b7
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline yuli

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2010, 01:49:39 pm »
One thing I have heard is that the milk of some animals, such as wolves' milk is so high in casein that human babies are unable to  properly digest it, and so would die from consuming the stuff.

I am kinda pissed nutrition databases do not list casein content, idiots, they list gluten and everything else, lazy people...there is obviously people that are way more sensitive to casein then others!

I have also read in many sources that babies/kids are much less tolerant of casein then adults are, I wonder why that is.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2010, 02:07:31 pm »
It's not only casein that people are allergic to, but also many other milk proteins, such as beta-lactoglobulin, alpha-lactalbumin, immunoglobulins, serum albumin
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2010, 02:44:06 pm »
There are even those with galactosemia who eventually get brain-damage and die if they continue to drink milk, however raw, as they cannot digest galactose in milk.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline yuli

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2010, 03:19:48 pm »
It's not only casein that people are allergic to, but also many other milk proteins, such as beta-lactoglobulin, alpha-lactalbumin, immunoglobulins, serum albumin

Erm...I am no scientist but...isn't serum albumin extremely abundant in all mammalian blood too?
And isn't lactoglobulin and lactalbumin not present in aged cheese which is also lactose free?? But even then who cares because:

Look at it this way, there is people severely allergic to nuts, then people mildly allergic to nuts, then people not at all allergic to nuts whatsoever, why are nuts not so much looked down upon? Oh thats right, because people are not drinking 2 glasses of nut butter every day ha ha
And isn't it a matter of quantity and frequency... just like with nuts...
Like drinking a glass of milk every day is NOT equal to having a small amount of cheese twice a week...or am I totally delirious here.

Same idea with things like tomatoes, people are like oh noooo they are nightshades run you CAN'T eat them, erm noooo only some people can't (and I feel bad for those people). Most people can consume nightshades without problems just not too much of them.

There is foods that can be eaten every day, like fish, meat, animal fat, natural fruits...
And foods that have to be eaten sparingly, like dairy, bones, certain vegetables and fruits as well cannot be eaten too often...too me its all part of the same thing, equilibrium and balance. Your body needs to rest from dairy, like a fast, but a dairy fast, not be bombarded with it, unless you're severely allergic to it then just never eat it but some people make it sound like everyone is poisoned by ANY amount of dairy no matter what dairy (thats really annoying). I don't even love dairy so much like others and I still find it annoying....

Oh and I know someone is going to say well thats because dairy problems is the most common complain on RAF - well its the most common problem because a lot of people gorge on too much of it, duh! If people gorged on nut butter, or fresh squeezed tomato juice by the gallon you'll also have complaints, but people find it easier to gorge on milk and cream. That they do.

And then someone else is going to say well noo even a tiny amount of dairy gives me symptoms, of course....thats because you probably OVERATE it before in your life and developed an allergy/toxicity to it by bombarding yourself with pasteurized dairy from a young age. You poisoned yourself with dairy... I thought thats obvious. Since I was small till now I have only consumed dairy very sparingly and NEVER EVER drank pasteurized milk because it is the most disgusting poison thing I ever tasted, maybe thats why my body allows me to safely enjoy some REAL cheese...

Same as when people say chocolate is extremely toxic, heh...come on, is having a small glass of red wine every week also toxic and an occasional beer, again just too much paranoia. Its only toxic if you poisoned your liver with alcohol. All you need to do is have some sense, milk was in no way abundant in large amounts naturally, so eat it is very small amount and enjoy. Sorry to rant... but that just what I assume/conclude, that people that have problems with dairy are the ones that poisoned themselves too much with in the first place, and their body can handle it no more. Yep, you used up all your life's allowed dairy credits by the time you were like 20 by bombarding yourself with shitty dairy, now you ran out of dairy credits, you are a recovering dairy-holic and can no longer have some...thats how it sadly goes.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2010, 03:58:12 pm »
Erm...I am no scientist but...isn't serum albumin extremely abundant in all mammalian blood too?
Yes, it is.
Maybe that's why Jews and Muslims are forbidden to drink it.
Quote
And isn't lactoglobulin and lactalbumin not present in aged cheese which is also lactose free?? But even then who cares becaus
Yes it is.
That's why even very old cheese is allergic to lots of people (usually they don't even realize it)
Quote
Like drinking a glass of milk every day is NOT equal to having a small amount of cheese twice a week...or am I totally delirious here.
I agree.
Quote
Most people can consume nightshades without problems just not too much of them.
How do you know that? Maybe there aren't any problems right away, 'cause they can accumulate over many months or even years.
Quote
Oh and I know someone is going to say well thats because dairy problems is the most common complain on RAF - well its the most common problem because a lot of people gorge on too much of it, duh! If people gorged on nut butter, or fresh squeezed tomato juice by the gallon you'll also have complaints, but people find it easier to gorge on milk and cream. That they do.
That's how it works, yuli. If you can eat one cookie, one little chocolate that you're a lucky girl. :)
A vast majoraty of people cannot eat only one of such dogdy foods - when they try it they gorge on lots of it and in the end are sick.
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline yuli

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2010, 04:32:48 pm »
A vast majoraty of people cannot eat only one of such dogdy foods - when they try it they gorge on lots of it and in the end are sick.

Yeah and its because of their stupidity/ignorance or the stupidity/ignorance of how they were raised, I wasn't raised on junk so I learned to eat a little of it never gorge...and now these people make us think a little dairy is poison, no its only poison once you poisoned yourself with it in the first place. If you eat it carefully and don't poison yourself at a young age then guess what, you wont get allergies or get poisoned later in life. Its now clear that people who have problems with a tiny bit of dairy (or other dodgy foods) are the ones that screwed up their body with it in the first place (or some other part of their very SAD previous diet). But in no way should these people claim that dairy is bad, that tomatoes are bad, that nuts are bad, that fructose is bad, its only the problem with their body, and the fact that their eating was out of control. And now they can no longer have it at all.

Maybe that's why Jews and Muslims are forbidden to drink it.

Huh what does religion have to do with basic dietary needs, most of dietary rules due to religion don't make too much sense  :P

Cause they can accumulate over many months or even years.

Things like that only accumulate when you allow them by poisoning yourself with too much of it on REGULAR basis in the first place. If you eat them in correct amounts your whole life it won't be allowed to accumulate. Cookies don't accumulate in your body, if I eat a cookie now, and then eat another one in a month or two, nothing will accumulate or poison me really. And certain foods can have different levels/speeds of accumulation as is obvious. However if I ate cookies every day when I was a kid, I'd probably not be able eat one anymore (not that I even wanna eat one I'd rather have a piece of cheese, more nutritious and better taste and its not baked/heated so much)

If you eat a diet that provides you with good nutrition then you will never want to gorge on things in the first place, if you keep gorging you will fuck it up for yourself for probably the rest of your life. If you eat it as a treat you can enjoy it the rest of your life, and nothing will poison you without realizing it, I have eaten too much nuts a few times, too much fruits a few times, too much cheese on rare occasions and guess what I sure as hell REALIZED it, when you are healthy and on a clean diet you sure realize when you're eating too much of something. And if you have developed an allergy because you didn't realize before you were having too much consistently for a long time, then even a bit will be too much because now your body will tell you the hard way and make you realize it right away.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2010, 05:06:06 pm »
The above assertion is just a load of b*ll*cks. There are actually people, as I explained previously, who developed problems from raw dairy, either as soon as they were born or very early in life. So, this credits nonsense makes no sense. Besides, when so many people have problems with different kinds of aspects of raw dairy(lactose/casein/hormones/calcium:magnesium ratio etc. etc.) it is pretty clear that raw dairy is a harmful food, all in all. Sure, a very few people might be 100 percent immune to raw dairy in all respects, but that does not in itself make it an ideal food even for them.

I should add that I had various problems with raw dairy early on in life, despite the fact that my mother fed me on a reasonably healthy(if only by cooked diet standards diet). That is, a semi-WAPF diet with lots of cooked wild game, organ-meats, no pizzas or french fries or whatever nonsense - I only got into junk food diets well after experiencing problems with raw and pasteurised dairy. The only error I made was that I honestly believed the lies doctors told re the supposed benefits of dairy for children, so it took me a while to work out what my issues were re ill-health.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2010, 06:01:04 pm »
If you eat it carefully and don't poison yourself at a young age then guess what, you wont get allergies or get poisoned later in life.
You are wrong. :)
There're lots of people who had been raised in a healthy way, had been given healthy foods and later when they begun some junk foods they were gorging on them exactly the same way as people who had eaten them in their childhood. Example? Annabella Piugattuk
Quote
Huh what does religion have to do with basic dietary needs, most of dietary rules due to religion don't make too much sense  :P
Some of them do make sense - e.g. eating sheep and goats and not eating pigs - the latter are definitely more prone to eat "shit food".
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
Livin' off the raw grass fat of the land

Offline yuli

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2010, 06:13:32 pm »





The above assertion is just a load of b*ll*cks.

You always say that when any assertion towards dairy is made thats not negative, and why did you sensor the word bollocks lol  :P

There are actually people, as I explained previously, who developed problems from raw dairy, either as soon as they were born or very early in life.

Thats because A. babies and children are extra sensitive to dairy especially the pasteurized one...B. Mothers that feed milk formula to babies and kids poison them very quickly.... C. Parents think its healthy to give children LOTS of milk to their kids and again that will make them have problems... D...Kids develop all sorts of problems early in life because of fuck-ups by their parents and other weird reasons. Like there is kids that are allergic to everything, yes EVERYTHING. So what...Young people also develop same problems when they gorge on junk and pasteurized dairy...that is very evident indeed.

So, this credits nonsense makes no sense.

Thats because you don't want it to make sense. Yes whatever I wrote makes absolutely zero sense, thats right, because it can't possibly make sense if dairy is not everyones poison.

Sure, a very few people might be 100 percent immune to raw dairy in all respects, but that does not in itself make it an ideal food even for them.

No, thats not what I said, the opposite, zero people are 100% immune to dairy, they just didn't eat it a lot and don't know that so they think they are immune, but in fact they are just eating it in moderation. Nothing but perhaps the most perfect natural whole meat of a complete and healthiest animal and all its parts is an ideal food, but other foods can still be eaten in their allowed quantities, which differ for various people.

I should add that I had various problems with raw dairy early on in life...

Yes early in life is a sensitive time...people that don't too often eat dairy early in life mostly won't develop those problems. People early in life should also not have regular beer, or smoke some weed, or experiment with LSD, or watch porn (lol) but later in life when they learn proper control they can do it safely and without problems, well some can and some can't and the ones that can't should avoid it altogether.

I only got into junk food diets well after experiencing problems with raw and pasteurised dairy.

Yes and let me guess you gorged on pasteurized dairy, chips, fries and candy bars to the point you were sick...people develop all sorts of problems this way, you know that. Its common that once you start over-consuming one junk food you will move on to others.

The only error I made was that I honestly believed the lies doctors told re the supposed benefits of dairy for children, so it took me a while to work out what my issues were re ill-health.

It is partly because of doctors lies and modern methods of food preparation that dairy has become evil, thats not your fault, at least you realized it man! But thats the ONLY error you made? ok....

You are smart guy but repeating the same thing will not make people avoid dairy. What I was trying to do was state the fact that the more dairy you consume the more likely you are to be poisoned by it, but apparently thats bullocks for everyone because everyone is just like you Tyler, and everyone experienced the exact same things and had the exact same things when growing up. You're being grumpy-wumpy, can't you let people enjoy an occasional serving of quality raw dairy without the thought that they are killing themselves, they are no more killing themselves then eating the occasional piece of cooked meat or having some occasional red wine (instead they should be aware of overconsumption). I don't know about others, but this diet makes me way more aware of overconsumption then before, cool!
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 06:29:02 pm by yuli »

Offline yuli

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Re: Raw Dairy? Who embraces it?
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2010, 06:25:52 pm »
There're lots of people who had been raised in a healthy way, had been given healthy foods and later when they begun some junk foods they were gorging on them exactly the same way as people who had eaten them in their childhood.

Yeah I know there are people like that, that they started gorging on junk foods for whatever reason, there is so many reasons why people go down that path, and it always fucks them up. But that still doesn't prove that having an occasional raw dairy treat without ever gorging will poison you, that if for all my adult life, I had a small piece of quality raw cheese once a week, or twice a week (without ever having been poisoned or overindulged in dairy before), I would be poisoned and my bones will be brittle if I have a healthy diet for that whole time, is there a study like that....no of course not, everything has to be frikkin extreme, black and white, good and bad, never gray...that is why everyone is panicking about dairy and everything else, that is why people on this forum will have the same pointless dairy discussion millions of times - studies either say YES EAT LOTS....or NO DON'T EAT ANY!!!! Its stupid....

 

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