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Messages - TylerDurden

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14276
Hot Topics / Re: Irritating internet laws
« on: January 03, 2009, 07:01:03 pm »
All I recall is that his State had no power to do anything to him, at first, as bestiality isn't illegal in that State, but they were able to forcibly send his horse to be slaughtered when the vet declared the horse too decrepit to have a sustainable old age.

14277
General Discussion / Re: dha hungry
« on: January 03, 2009, 07:21:43 am »
Marrow is a good source, IMO. Current brain/human evolution theory is that humans' brains got larger as a result of eating lots of dha-richbrains and marrow(ie both raw) from scavenged animals killed by other predators such as lions. It's all to do with the expensive tissue hypothesis.

14278
General Discussion / Re: Hunting
« on: January 03, 2009, 07:20:20 am »
Well, I've eaten wild hare, wild mallard duck etc. etc. for years now, with never any issues. So, I'm generally of the view that the whole issue of parasites/bacteria is way overhyped. I might be more concerned if I was in a tropical environment and faced with easily -contaminated meats, if in a particularly unhygienic area(eg:- post-monsoon), but, otherwise, it's just not something I could ever worry about.

A few people have claimed that parasites are more of an issue if you eat the raw meat of carnivores/omnivores, and thet raw herbivore meat is fine(I suppose the theory goes that the higher up the food-chain , the more predators have the opportunity of picking up parasites from eating other species, or some such nonsense.Make of it what you will.)

14279
General Discussion / Re: Washing teeth _!?
« on: January 03, 2009, 12:56:12 am »
Well, there's fluoride-free toothpaste. Baking soda is also used by some. Others use soap(not too tasty!), floss their teeth etc.

When cleaning teeth, I use a mouthwash full of chemicals as well as fluroide-free toothpaste. Not in line with raw principles, admittedly, but we all have to compromise in certain areas.

14280
Primal Diet / Re: Aajonus' Appearances and Primal Potlucks
« on: January 02, 2009, 10:48:44 pm »

San Diego/Carlsbad - Primal Potluck - February 1, 2009?
From:  aajonus (optimal@earthlink.net) 
Sent: 02 January 2009 01:05:40
To:  aajonus (optimal@earthlink.net)


PRIMAL POTLUCK with Aajonus
 

Come join a raw food gathering
Followed by Q&A with Aajonus
Bring your favorite raw food dish

 
HOST:         Liza Szabo
WHEN:       Sunday, February 1
                   1:00 pm for the Potluck
                   2:30 for Q&A with Aajonus
WHERE:     1663 Corte Orchidia, Carlsbad, CA. 92009
INFO:          760-603-YOGA (9642)
www.seasonsretreats.com OR www.transformpeace.com


 
***********************************
 Some people are very SCENT-sitive, so please refrain
from using colognes, perfumes, and fragrant oils. Thank you!

 
There is no fee for the potluck, but everyone is expected to bring and share a raw food dish for 3-5
people that is compatible with Aajonus’ Primal Diet.  All food items must be fresh, unfrozen, raw,
organic, and pesticide free.  This includes red meat, fish, or chicken, which can be obtained at
Whole Foods or Jimbos markets.  There should be no salt, no store-bought sauces, and no
vegetable salads, please!
 
Call Liza (760-603-9642) if you need suggestions for potluck dishes. Please write your recipe on a
3X5 card to share with others.  We will be compiling recipes for future distribution.
 
If you wish to stay beyond the potluck festivity for a Q&A session with Aajonus and/or have a mini-
consultation, please bring $25 for each.  You may want to schedule a full consultation with Aajonus
prior to the potluck.  Reading his book, "We Want To Live" is required before consultation. His
book can be purchased on the publisher's website: www.PrimalDiet.com, and Liza, Cynthia, or
Aajonus will have some books available.
 
If you have an email address and want to be on our mailing list, please let us know by emailing
optimal@earthlink.net  and  Cynthia@lovenectar.com with “Potluck - postal to email” as Subject.
We will save trees and reduce pollution.
 
Directions To Liza Szabo RDH, MA,ND,  Home Office & Health Studio
NOTE: If there is any confusion while you are finding your way to the potluck, you can call Liza
at number above for assistance.
 
From Highway 5 San Diego or Los Angeles
 
Highway 5 to Poinsettia Exit
Go East approx. 2 miles to top of hill
Turn right on Black Rail Road (by the water tanks)
Go I block to First Left onto Corte Orchidia
Go almost to the end of Cul De Sac on your right
 
>From the East
Take Aviara Parkway West to Black Rail Road
Turn Right or North on Black Rail Road
Go to Corte Orchidia and Turn Right
 
PS
Alga Road from Rancho Sante Fe Road turns into Aviara if you are coming inland
Eventually Poinsettia will be opened up all the way from El Camino Real and you can take Poinsettia
to Black Rail when construction is complete
 
 
 BYOB (BRING YOUR OWN BUTTER)
 
 SEE YOU THERE!!!!!



 

14281
Hot Topics / Re: Irritating internet laws
« on: January 02, 2009, 01:19:57 am »
I'd just like to address a few points. First of all , the primary reason why the Internet got going in the first place  was because of all the porn sites that were there from the beginning|(indeed, at one point, porn consisted of something like 80-90%+  of the Internet). So porn actually helped the Internet grow, regardless of what one's personal view is of porn.

Secondly, the whole business of child porn is hopelessly overblown. Judging from media reports, one finds that almost all such websites feature made-up/photoshopped fake pictures of children being abused. The way I see it, such websites allow people with unusual tendencies to get rid of them/sublimate them  in a way that doesn't harm others. I certainly don't think that someone should be prosecuted, therefore, for merely watching such images online, as they are not directly harming anyone in any way.

By the way, there was 1 case sometime in the 80s, I think, where an American citizen from Wisconsin or some similiar neighbouring State exploited the fact that there was no local State law against Bestiality (or marrying animals?), so was able to (legally) marry his horse. Of course, he got a lot of hate-mail from the public, who felt that he was making a mockery of the USA, but he got away with it.

14282
Hot Topics / Re: Irritating internet laws
« on: December 30, 2008, 11:14:19 pm »
I disagree. Censorship is always wrong. Besides, the Internet allows people to flout specific, national draconian laws which are relevant only to 1 country, by accessing foreign websites. A good example is the increasing use by Chinese citizens of Japanese websites to get round the restriction on free Internet speech by the Chinese government. Plus, the Internet is a great way to avoid the draconian libel laws that exist in the UK, as most websites/forums are more or less international in scope, rather than national.

Sure, there are spammers, but these can be dealt with via better anti-spam protection etc.

14283
Hot Topics / D'Adamo Article
« on: December 30, 2008, 09:21:47 pm »
Here's an article from the Daily Telegraph about D'Adamo's new book and his new interpretation of his dodgy blood-type diet:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3917177/Revealed-the-diet-secrets-to-help-you-fit-into-your-genes.html

14284
Hot Topics / Re: Longevity- Calorie Quality vs Calorie Quantity
« on: December 30, 2008, 09:20:31 pm »
There are a lot of problems involved with caloric restriction. Intermittent Fasting seems to provide the benefits of caloric restriction without the dissadvantages re general weakness etc. Not that I recommend IF for everyone as some people find fasting of any kind a disaster given specific health-problems, but IF can be useful.

14285
Primal Diet / Re: Aajonus' Appearances and Primal Potlucks
« on: December 30, 2008, 07:49:17 am »



W. Palm Beach/Lake Worth, FL are fortunate to welcome gifted HEALTH and

Nutritional Practitioner, AAJONUS VONDERPLANITZ, Ph.D.NUTRITION

"I attended Aajonus' lectures/workshops every year for 7 years and I

learn so much more each time. That's because as I practice the diet, I

understand more of what Aajonus told us in the workshop. As I understand

more, I learn more. I get more in control of my life every year because

<>Aajonus gives me the opportunity with his yearly workshops."  -  John Richter - 38


BRING A TAPE RECORDER* AND JOIN AAJONUS FOR A MOST FASCINATING LECTURE

AND WORKSHOP AS HE DISTINGUISHES NUTRITIONAL FACT FROM COMMONLY

BELIEVED NUTRITIONAL FICTION. 


FREE LECTURE:  SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 14,2009, NOON-1 PM

*For reservations and directions, call Isolde at 561-798-4536.


WORKSHOP:  SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 2009,  1:15 PM-7 PM - $85

At the lsat segment of workshop, Aajonus will conduct Mini-Consults.  A Mini-Consult

includes glandular analyses and specific food recommendations to improve health.

The cost of a Mini-Consult is an additional $30.  For reservations, call Isolde at 561-798-4536.


LOCATION for Lecture and Workshop: 


FIRST CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH

OF LAKE WORTH

1415 NORTH K ST.

LAKE WORTH

 

DIRECTIONS: 

95 TO 10 AVE NORTH GO EAST & MAKE LEFT AT DIXIE HWY WHICH IS ALSO US 1.

TURN RIGHT ONTO 13 AVE NORTH, GO TWO BLOCKS & MAKE LEFT ONTO J TERRACE.

YOU ENTER THE PARKING LOT OF THE CHURCH  FROM J TERRACE NO NEED TO GO TO K ST.


__________

INDIVIDUAL CONSULTS:  Friday and Sunday FEBRUARY 13 and 15.
 

An Individual Consult requires approximately 70 minutes and costs $375.  The

consult includes iridology, glandular analyses and very detailed, personalized

food recommendations.  The iris is connected to every organ and tissue in the

body by way of the brain and the nervous system.  Iridology is a fascinating

analytical tool that can reveal conditions in the deepest areas of the body.

Reading Aajonus’ book, We Want to Live, is a pre-requisite for an Individual

Consult. The book can be purchased for $29.95 + S&H by calling 1.800.247.6553.

For appointments and directions, call Isolde at 561-798-4536.

Follow-up consult requires approximately 50 minutes and costs $300.

Only cash or checks accepted.


LOCATION for Consults will be set within 2 weeks of scheduled consults and you
will be notified.

 
 




 

14286
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Which liver?
« on: December 30, 2008, 07:47:17 am »
Which would be better nutrition wise, grass-fed veal liver or grass-fed cow liver? Is there much difference between the two?


Veal is nearly always raised in appalling conditions(re being cooped up indoors etc.) .Even if it's grassfed, it's best to play safe and go for the adult cow liver.

14287
Off Topic / Re: Star Wars Fans!!!
« on: December 29, 2008, 11:50:40 pm »
I am a big Blake's Seven Fan! And that was less corny than STOS? How can you put down the special effects in STOS? Compared to B7?

And I liked Babylon 5 in the beginning with Jeffery Sinclair. I did watch other seasons but missed him a lot.

I just turned 52, so I suppose that says something. Now go play in the meat market little one  ;)


The dialogue in Blakes' 7 was outstanding far better than Star Trek's corny dialogue and tedious message of hope. Granted, the special effects of B7 were appalling, but that was because of the prejudice that British TV producers have against science fiction.

Even though Star Trek:TOS's effects were better than B7, they were bad enough that Saturday Night Live featured a Star Trek spoof mocking the bad special effects of that series.

14288
Hot Topics / Re: Raw fat
« on: December 29, 2008, 11:47:39 pm »

for the record:
any1 who has actually read cunnane's book knows well that the aquatic ape theory & cunnane's shore based scenario are not 1 & the same -- even though cunnane is friends w/ & seems to have learned from crawford & elaine morgan

while i learned a thing or 2 from my parents, i am not 1 & the same w/ them

perhaps we all can use some dietary dha to clear up mental cloudiness, misconceptions, dogmatic presuppositions...?

Don't jump to conclusions. I mentioned the Aquatic Ape theory and the meat-theory as they are at extremes to each other. The shoreline-based thoery of human evolution is simply a compromise between the two. It's anyway problematic as it assumes that humans would have had to have mostly lived near shorelines for much of their evolutionary history - an unlikely prospect.
Quote
re. schopenhauer's philosophy:
where & on what grounds does he draw the line?
why appreciating money = bad whereas appreciating health = good?
is health nonphysical (sort of spiritual) in his view, whereas money is just paper or plastic?
why are money & drugs in the same category?
[/color]

The point is that if you're not healthy, then you can't really fully appreciate the other things in life.

Schopenhauer pointed out that we are constantly aiming at higher states of being/emotional arousal and that these are largely unnecessary. Those goals can take many forms such as money, sex, wealth, drugs, or whatever. But he pointed out that these things are illusions - for example, money actually has no intrinsic value except what humans give it. It's just pieces of paper and metal, ultimately.

If you look at it from Schopenhauer's POV, it all makes sense. Sure one can take drugs to enhance one's life(for example, my doctor uncle is effectively addicted to pain-killers to cope with the joints that he ruined as a result of his SAD diet), but it's better to control one's own emotional state without needing crutches such as wealth in order to feel good about oneself.


14289
Hot Topics / Re: Raw fat
« on: December 29, 2008, 11:17:42 pm »
Look, there are 1000s of scientific studies done on AGEs, with several focusing on how the amounts of toxic AGEs in the body are directly related to conditions such as type 2 diabetes. Just google for such, they're all over the place. So that link between AGEs and ill-health is proven. Like I said, though, it's all a matter of degree, with less AGEs consumed being less worse than lots of AGEs consumed.

As regards the comment re AGEs in soups/broths, that's meaningless as peoples' diets nowadays include a vast range of foods, not just broths/soups, and I doubt that even hunter-gatherer tribes soley ate broths and soups for their cooked-foods - indeed, they ate plenty of
meats cooked without water on spits.

As regards the raw/cooked issue, I made a good point, there. Very few people mix cooked and raw at the same meal, nowadays. The average restaurant meal will  feature cooked meat and cooked veg, with a dessert involving pasteurised dairy or some such. Only rarely will people nowadays include a bit of raw fruit or raw veg at the same meal.

Re that list, I'm a little suspicious of the figures, as they don't seem that high in other lists. But, yes, I grant that raw foods from animals raised on unhealthy, AGE-rich diets are also harmful. Mind you, this is part of rawpalaeo POV, anyway. I think I addressed this point, later on in that article, but I'll add an addendum to that comment, at some stage.

Re Weston-Price:- unfortunately, most of Weston-Price's findings have been contradicted by many other anthropologists. I was not happy to find out, for example, that the Maori were decidedly NOT super-healthy, despite Price's claims, given evidence of skeletal remains.

As regards the whole cholestrol/saturated fats issue, it's been pointed out by various sources that the reason for all those studies condemning saturated fats/cholesterol/animal foods, is really only because they're focusing on cooked animal foods  and are therefore not taking the levels of toxins in such cooked-foods into account, such as AGEs. Here's a relevant excerpt from the saturated fat wikipedia page:-

"Another confounding issue may be the formation of exogenous (outside the body) advanced glycation endproducts (AGEs) and oxidation products generated during cooking, which it appears some of the studies have not controlled for. It has been suggested that, "given the prominence of this type of food in the human diet, the deleterious effects of high-(saturated)fat foods may be in part due to the high content in glycotoxins, above and beyond those due to oxidized fatty acid derivatives." The glycotoxins, as he called them, are more commonly called AGEs"

One could argue that eating foods very low in AGEs, such as always eating grassfed meats, cooked as little as possible, making sure to cook only in water etc. etc.,  might reduce the burden of toxins in the body to so-called "manageable" levels. But to suggest something like that one would have to come up with plenty of scientific studies showing that such toxins are indeed tolerated at such low levels. In practice, because even the diets of hunter-gatherer tribes will include some AGE-rich foods, it is highly unlikely that anyone on a cooked-diet could ever realistically reduce the amounts of AGEs in their diet to low enough levels.

14290
Off Topic / Re: Star Wars Fans!!!
« on: December 29, 2008, 10:52:22 pm »
I'm 36.

I've always found the Star Wars franchise to be really corny, aimed at 3-year-olds but in a pathetic, patronising way(really good children's movies never patronise kids). I seem to recall that Harrison Ford once said, when George Lucas gave him  the usual bad dialogue to read before acting it out, " George, you can type this shit, but you sure can't say it!" The only good Star Wars film was The Empire Strikes Back, where someone else  did the dialogue(and directing?).

Star Trek is also dismal. I mean, the original Star Trek was just a vanity vehicle for William Shatner, then there was that 60s hippy-like atmosphere, the crappy villains(other than the Romulans). At least the special effects were better in subsequent Star Trek franchises, and Roddenberry at least had the sense to include 1 or 2 good actors(ie the guy who played Data and the Shakespearean actor Patrick Stewart,(though he wasn't remotely convincing as a Frenchman).

I'm not against SF TV or movies, in general, But the dialogue/acting etc. is far better in such series as Blake's 7, or Babylon 5 or The Twilight Zone etc.

14291
Off Topic / Ethel Merman
« on: December 29, 2008, 12:11:07 am »

14292
Hot Topics / Re: Raw fat
« on: December 28, 2008, 11:06:01 pm »
I doubt that cooled cooked food wouldn't induce the leukocytosis effect.

The arguments used against Koutchakoff are highly dodgy as microwaving foods has been shown to induce luekocytosis - so Koutchakoff is vindicated. Secondly,  beyondveg.com argues that Koutchakoff's point is irrelevant as the leukocytosis effect is negated if one eats 10% or more food , raw(at the same meal). Since most people, nowadays, eat things like pizzas, fried foods/ready meals , all 100% cooked in 1 meal, this point is irrelevant. Plus, it merely shows that raw food is so superior to cooked-food that it can negate the effect of coooked-food(in a partial way) if one eats 10% raw at every single meal.

I've actually addressed all of beyondveg.com's absurd points in that anti-raw thesis on this website:-

http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/anti-raw-bias-on-beyondveg-com-website-debunked/

Then there's BYV's point re luekocytosis and exercise. Yes, harsh exercise might induce leukocytosis, but there the point is that such stresses can overwhelm the body if taken to excess. That's why one hears so often about people suffering health-problems  from overtraining. Similiarly, a rise in white-blood-cell count, in and of itself, isn't that dangerous, but, over a long period of time and if produced constantly via cooked-food-consumption, it weakens the body's resources, leading to physical degeneration over time.

As regards the other anti-raw essay, it's very flawed as it only focuses on raw vegans. Yes, vegetables get antinutrients reduced as a result of cooking, but cooking lowers the levels of nutrients in the first place, plus creates toxins in the process. The argument on that website claiming  that boiling/steaming/simmering doesn't produce any toxins is an outright falsehood as shown previously.

14293
General Discussion / Re: Social gathering
« on: December 28, 2008, 09:42:36 pm »
There are photos of Barry Groves online, he seems much the same as anyone else his age, IMO.

14294
Hot Topics / Re: Raw fat
« on: December 28, 2008, 12:18:00 am »
Re AGEs list:-

It's amazing how one can find almost anything that supports any old theory if one googles enough. In the case of Joel Fuhrmann's claims re broth, it's unsubstantiated(he's a highly dodgy pro-vegan researcher - ironically, the Palaeo guru Eades pointed, in his blogs,  to a study

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/

showing that vegans have higher AGE-levels than cooked-palaeos). Other, more honest , websites claim merely that boiling and similiar methods only produce fewer AGEs and other toxins:-

http://www.life-enhancement.com/article_template.asp?ID=1869

As for the selected mentions of raw chicken and raw salmon, this was already discussed in other topics on this forum. It was pointed out that many modern raw foods are derived from intensively-farmed animals fed on crappy AGE-rich,unnatural diets, so that it's understandable that farmed salmon or intensively-farmed chicken would have high AGE-levels. That's the trouble with such tables, if they, instead of detailing grainfed beef/farmed fish, showed data for much healthier raw foods, the kind that we rawpalaeos eat, such as grassfed beef, wildcaught salmon/swordfish etc., they would find far fewer AGE-levels.

As regards broths/soups, scientific papers, as you very well know, focus on foods that we  currently eat, not the broths/soups that our ancestors used to eat centuries ago(well, unless very heavily processed). What we do know with certainty, however, is that food starts getting destroyed at c.40 degrees Celsius, with the (proteinous) enzymes being affected first, followed by the killing off of most of the bacteria(I believe there are some heat-resistant strains), then comes the formation of AGEs. Since you've even pointed out in the above tables(as have I in other reports), that boiling does produce toxins such as AGEs, albeit in smaller amounts than in grilling/frying, the best you could come up with is that foods heated, but nowhere near boiling point, are less unhealthy than boiled food. That is unless you can show that we need to consume small amounts of toxins such as AGEs in order to be healthy.

I've already pointed out how the body reacts by upping the white-blood-cell count when it eats cooked-food on its own. Since this is a reaction to illness/pathogens as well, that would indicate that things like AGEs aren't natural at all.

I'm impressed by your efforts so far, incidentally - at least it hasn't been boring. It's so much more fun debating with you than with some of the more vehement anti-raws out there.

14295
Hot Topics / Re: Raw fat
« on: December 28, 2008, 12:07:44 am »
First of all, the notions re aquatic ape theory or the shoreline theory are considered extremely fringe, with most scientists dismissing the theory given the lack of evidence and faulty points. Here's a page criticising the more basic faults in the aquatic ape theory:-

http://www.aquaticape.org/

and this one:-
http://www.aquaticape.org/aahbook.html


The other problem is that there's plenty of evidence of wild-game being slaughtered in the Palaeolithic such as the famous bones of horses at the bottom of certain cliffs in France, not forgetting the images of wild aurochs and other large herbivores on the cave walls.  It  is extremely unlikely that they would eat fish in any serious amounts  if they didn't depict them on the cave-walls.


14296
Hot Topics / Re: Raw fat
« on: December 27, 2008, 09:19:38 pm »
First of all, the time when cooking was invented did not coincide with a massive evolutionary change. The only times when brain-size was significantly boosted out of all proportion was when our hominid ancestors started eating more meats, each time(which were raw as these two events occurred long  before cooking was invented).

Secondly, it's pretty clear that you won't accept any evidence no matter how many scientific papers I show you re Advanced glycation end products, links to diabetes etc.. Fair enough, but the evidence is there, regardless, and most responsible nutritionists, as a result of such a multitude of studies,  already recommend against extreme forms of cooking such as grilling/frying/microwaving/baking so that already 1/2 to 2/3 of the pro-cooking argument is already lost.

The claim re some people thriving on cooked-foods is dubious. Sure, there will always be some people who are better adapted re tolerating toxins, whether in the form of arsenic or nicotine or advanced glycation end products, but it's rather difficult to believe a claim that one could not only tolerate a toxin but also thrive on it. After all, technically, all that cooked-foods are is treated raw food that has fewer levels of vitamins(due to heat), with some toxins added to them. And since wildlife has survived perfectly well on raw foods for billions of years, it's unlikely that cooked-food is somehow "necessary" or "useful" and it's difficult to find anything about cooked-food that makes it superior to raw foods, other than that it can expand the range of diets by reducing antinutrients thus allowing people to eat several more foods that do a lot of harm to many people(eg:- grains and legumes).

As for the other mention re quality of life, I'm a devotee of Schopenhauer and disagree with that world-view. Schopenhauer pointed out that we all, like animals, seek to attain a higher state of being re increased happiness etc. The trouble, as Schopenhauer pointed out, is that that renders us slaves to things that have no intrinsic value in themselves (eg:- money, alcohol, drugs etc.) So, it's best to not be dependent on such material things and focus on the more important things in life such as health etc.

14297
Hot Topics / Irritating internet laws
« on: December 27, 2008, 08:44:17 pm »
I've just read an article in the Daily Telegraph where some idiot UK government Minister is stating that he's about to go ahead with setting age-restrictions on viewing some websites, with some censorship of websites involved as well. I can just see where this is going:- no doubt, websites like our forum will be viewed as "dangerous" and get censored.

14298
Hot Topics / Re: Raw fat
« on: December 27, 2008, 07:38:02 am »
There's extensive online info on the Ancient Egyptian diet such as the mention of Melokhia soup which is basiacally a herb mixed with chicken-broth and/or other meats:-

http://originalrecipes.com/node/3190

Seems the broths didn't save them, nor did the fermentation of grains aid them, nor did raw dairy help the health of the Ancient Egyptian royalty,  even though those  are all WAPF staples. This is the whole problem with the WAPF, they cite many unnatural foods which are typical of many very sick Neolithic-era populations. Now, I might concede that the consumption of broths wouldn't have harmed as much those Palaeolithic-era peoples who started eating cooked-meats, after the time cooking was invented, since they weren't consuming dairy or grains or legumes, but it wouldn't have been as effective as an all-rawpalaeo diet, given the levels of toxins created by heat(even low heat).

As regards the whole issue of cooking, there are already a multitude of scientific papers showing the harm done by toxins in cooked-foods, most of them easily accessible online, some of which I've already referred to in previous texts and on the child boards of the general discussions forum. Like I said before, the only "proof" that the WAPF have re broths/soups is that they are "less worse" than more heavily-cooked foods, not necessarily better. Sure, if one cooks in water(AND drinks the water , afterwards, to get the leached-out vitamins), then it's less harmful than grilling/frying but you're still consuming AGEs which will leads to conditions such as diabetes etc. in later life. In the same way, someone might view smoking 1 or 2 cigarettes a day as not as harmful as smoking a full pack a day, but it'll still have an effect.

As for the age of 102, that's meaningless as plenty of people, in ill-health or otherwise, have lived till 120 or so. It could also be argued that if one ate all-rawpalaeo from birth that one could live till  150.

14299
Hot Topics / Re: Raw fat
« on: December 27, 2008, 03:39:24 am »
Not laughable at all - just look at any online sources re egyptia ill-health and you'll see what I mean. The fools at the WAPF such as Sally Fallon would have us all believe that dairy is healthy to consume as long as it's raw  or that grains are OK to eat as long as they're fermented  or that cooked meats are fine as long as they're boiled but the example of the Ancient Egyptians (and many ohter Neolithic-era peoples) kind of debunks such absurd claims.

14300
Hot Topics / Re: Raw fat
« on: December 27, 2008, 01:48:35 am »
Re broths/soups comment:- That's pretty clear. I mean, there were plenty of populations in ill-health such as the Egyptians who used broths, so it's unlikely that broths are such useful food. The only factors that Weston-Price noted were that the healthiest tribes both ate high amounts of animal food and also ate some of their food(animal and plant-based) raw.

Re garden of eden comment:- This statement is aimed at Raw Vegans/Fruitarians(for some strange reason, beyondveg.com doesn't akcnowledge raw animal foodists, except in 1 side-article on Aajonus). At any rate, the statement is based on a false premise, naemly the idea that if humans have been eating cooked-food for years, that it must somehow benefit their survival or they wouldn't do it. First of all, humans(and animals) do all sorts of stupid things, which are anti-survival. Monkeys in the wild go in heavily for fermented fruit, for example, because they're adicted to the alcohol in it. Secondly, a practice that harms survival can still be passed on to the next generations if the person doing the harmful, stupid practice manages to survive past the age of breeding. Since cooking (mostly) leads to slow deterioration of health(particularly after the age of 40), it doesn't prevent breeding. This easily negates the argument that humans would have died out if cooking was harmful. Plus, after the invention of fire for warmth, it has been argued that humans were no longer in danger of dying out, regardless of what other harmful practices they had, as fire could be used to drive away predators etc.


Lastly, humans increased the amounts of cooked-foods in their diet in the Neolithic(ie grains), in order to compensate for the scarcity of wild game around that time. The result is that they became extremely unhealthy leading to a decrease in height, dental caries and many grain- and dairy-based diseases. These Neolithic humans turned to grains/legumes/dairy out of desperation because of a lack of animal foods, not for any health-reasons, so there's no reason to assume that humans' incorporation of cooked-foods into their diet 240,000 years before, was any different. Indeed, other non-health-related reasons exist, such as the fact that addictive opioids exist in cooked-foods(they also , interestingly, exist in dairy and grains), or the claim that humans needed to warm their frozen, raw meats in ultra-cold environments and that the habit simply caught on in other climates.

Besides, the fact that a multitude of wildlife has existed on raw foods for millions/billions of years should indicate that cooked-food consumption is not necessary.

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