And by the way, Goodsamaritan, you come across as a very trusting and accepting individual.  This is a wonderful quality to have, but it is one that most people lack.  Whether or not AV's intentions are pure, you have to understand that the way he comes across will leave many people deeply suspicious of his ideas and of his motives.

When I came across Aajonus and his books I was already a hobby healer.  I had already healed myself and many friends and relatives.  I had already made http://www.fertilityhelp.net , http://www.eczemacure.info , and http://www.curemanual.com .

By the time I came across Aajonus I had already learned PH Balancing, raw vegan, raw fruitarian, natural hygiene, the teachings of Barefoot Herbalist MH and Dr. Christopher, the teachings of Dr. Tam Mateo, the teachings of Hulda Clark, the teachings of Andreas Moritz, the teachings of Wai Genriiu (already raw paleolithic diet).

So Aajonus was a late addition to my cure protocol and reading materials I recommend at http://www.curemanual.com/mind-cures-paradigm-shifts

What I mean to say is, I was already healthy by the time I came across Aajonus, I had gone around healing circles and had healed many people by that time.  I did not become interested in aajonus simply because I am a trusting individual.  In fact I am up in arms against western medicine (except for the emergency room)... in my experience western medicine theory and practice regarding diseases is mostly a FRAUD!

I became interested in Aajonus because I had read his books and his articles and his principles of healing LOGIC is very much consistent with what I already knew about holistic health.  I agree with almost everything AV recommends, and I like his recipe book because it is useful to get my family into raw paleo.  I do recognize that many people are unsuited to consume dairy like me.

cooked beef fat is intolerable too.
Raw beef fat I can eat a lot, but cooked beef fat, my instincts says stop.
Maybe the body realizes cooked fat may be toxic?

Maybe AV is a double edged sword.
From your POV, you don't like him.
From my POV, I think he's the real deal.  Unfortunately, the raw dairy I get in my country does not work with me or maybe I'm not suited for raw dairy the way he is.  I also like his healing methodology... The recipes in his book are good too.

Glad to have you on board.
We hope to learn a lot from your experiences too!

Someone wrote me from http://www.lacensebeef.com/

Anyone tried them?

I experiment weekends.

For 3 or more weekends I experimented with raw cow milk, 1 liter at a time.  Caused my stomach to rumble and my colon to be gassy... I fart all day and night.

For 3 or more weekends I experimented with raw carabao milk (water buffalo), 1 liter at a time... Caused my stomach to rumble and my colon to be gassy... I fart all day and night.

For 3 or more weekends I experimented with raw goat milk, 1 liter at a time... Caused my stomach to rumble and my colon to be gassy... I fart all day and night.  The last time the gas was so bad, it caused me too much pain.

So I gave up on raw milk.

I voted on NEVER.  What I mean is I tried raw milk, but it obviously does not work for me.  So I don't want to drink raw milk again.

to quote Aajonus from an interview when asked why he had not yet tried to attract mainstream attention for his movement: "There’s no money to finance a study...

Aajonus is right on the money with this opinion.

Same thing Loren Howe says in this video which is available in my Cure Manual website:  There is no money for studies on cheap truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVn-jmCi4zI

Short Discussion from Loren Howe on the effectivity of the Raw Paleolithic Diet in reversing diseases. Also promotes the WAI Diet.
Loren How reads a PALEO DIET STUDY made by a French Doctor who funded his own study.
Listen to the success rate.  Of course it is fantastic.  And that is cures through diet alone.
But cures are diet + many other things.

I have made the point that I had wanted to make, and have probably riled enough feathers in the process to earn myself permanent pariah status on this forum.  That said, I am hereby divorcing myself of all ties to this argument.  I fear that if I continue to press any further I'm likely to either start a flame war or suffer an brain anurism out of sheer frustration.  I sincerely hope that my message has made at least some small impression on this wonderful community of smart, open minded and curious individuals.

I don't think you ruffled anyone's feathers just because you don't like AV.  What is odd is you don't like AV and you take it on Raw Kyle who you mis-interpret. 

Now you think you are starting a flame war when there is absolutely none.  Ummm... the flame war is just in your mind.  Maybe you need to relax and have a cool lemonade?  In my experience it was the liver flushing that did me good.  Have a smiley 

This morning I had pico mangoes and coconut juice with coconut milk.  A while later I had 2 fertilized duck eggs I stole from our ducks.

Just finished lunch and I had 1 small goat liver and 4 goat kidneys.

Then I peered into what our maids were eating and i snacked on some cucumber slices topped with fermented salty small raw fish (dilis).

I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of flack for making this post, especially since I'm pretty new here, but hell, I'm going to speak my mind: I don't think we raw meat eaters market ourselves well.

Speaking your mind is good.  Thanks for giving your newbie perspective.  Let's work on how to correct mis-perceptions.

Marketing wise,  I don't think people here are deliberately marketing ourselves.  This is not a for profit website marketing any product or service.

Of course I would like to stress that Raw Paleolithic Diet is not just about raw meat.  Many of us eat fruits and vegs too.

  While I appreciate the open mindedness on this forum, and certainly don't want to slam anyone's views, I can't help but recoil at the apparent zealotry I frequently witness on these forums.

I have not seen the zealotry you speak off.  In fact the reason I was attracted to the raw paleo forum was the absence of zealotry and the quality of the open mindedness of raw paleo practitioners as we get to exchange ideas and learn from one another.

  I understand everyone's enthusiasm with finally having found a diet that works so well and that seems so common sense in retrospect,

I've been through raw vegan, raw fruitarian, wai diet, homo optimus diet, tried the dairy of primal diet, it seems RPD is the one that works and is delicious, comfortable, easy... comes in naturally.

but as someone (relatively) new to these ideas, I can attest that when people start peddling the views of gurus like Aajonus as if they are indisputable facts, I start getting a seriously cultish vibe.

I think you are just railing against Aajonus' books and writings. 

I have observed the complete opposite of your observation.  I have observed that the raw paleo forum people are always analytical and respectfully critical of Aajonus' work.  Many of us have reported unsuccessful attempts at consuming raw dairy and raw juiced greens.  Seems there are only a small percentage of people who respond well to raw dairy.

I have observed that raw paleo forum practitioners are open minded self-experimentors and just report matter of factly what works for them and what does not work for them.

  This is not to say that those ideas are not worth serious consideration and thought, I just don't think that anyone can legitimately pretend, for example, that the whole raw detox is theory is true beyond a shadow of a doubt and that food poisoning is total BS.  Last I checked, Aajonus hasn't any specialized knowledge about the human body than the rest of us do not. 

I'm the family healer.  Not as experienced as Aajonus.  My story and website is on my signature.  Detoxing is very important for toxic people.

Raw detoxing due to diet is true in my opinion.  But I do not like guessing if the person is experiencing detox or not.  I was lucky to have done direct detox measures prior to switching to raw diets.  This is why I experienced no discomforts when I began with raw vegan.  See my detox protocols, i believe it is faster and more comfortable than the gradual let-raw-food-detox-you approach.  But of course others will disagree.  http://www.curemanual.com/detox-protocols

My feeling is that there is enough to recommend this diet without reverting to the unsubstantiated theories of celebrity seeking gurus. 

I do not see Aajonus being celebrated as the guru of Raw Paleo Diet.  He is mentioned because his books are the first ones popularized.  And some people respond well to raw dairy.

I myself was looking for something better than raw vegan and raw fruitarian.  I first stumbled onto Wai Diet made by Wai Genriiu.  Wai Diet is already raw Paleo but limited its animal food consumption to all ocean creatures and egg yolks -- excluded raw land animals.  Lots of research with Wai Diet.  Wai is quiet.  Other practitioners are running their forum.  They focus on curing acne.  And they do indeed cure acne.

I was getting bored with Wai Diet and wanted more variety so I stumbled onto Aajonus' primal diet.  What made me interested in Aajonus was he was also a healer, just like my previous teachers who I learned some healing concepts from: Dr. Tam Mateo (vegan), Barefoot Herbalist MH (fruitarian).

Aajonus' teachings have merit from my point of view.  In my natural hygiene readings, Aajonus' methods are very much consistent.  Aajonus' recommendations should be seen that there are specifics for really sick an dying people. 

Some of us here are in the coasting stage... building up stage... trying to be more handsome stage so the diet at this stage is different.

My point of view as a fellow altruistic healer is that Aajonus teachings work.  Work with a healing practitioner.  Healing is not just diet if one is sick.

The raw paleo forum is not reverting to Aajonus or any celebrity guru.  I never had that impression

I was attracted to the yahoogroups and this forum when I read the teachings of Geoff Purcell.

I know that its a natural inclination for movements to find leaders to attach themselves to, but honestly, as charismatic as figures like aajonus may be, they can also be pretty damn intimidating and generate a pretty strong nutcase response from people new to his ideas.

As I mentioned, this raw paleo diet forum, yahoo groups and website does not revere aajonus... he is just mentioned. 

It seems raw paleo diet makes us think and act as clear thinking, logical, egalitarian humans.  We just share and share alike.

  I mean seriously, this guy claims that he discovered his diet after being led to a dead carcass by a tribe of foxes (or something like that). 

Humans are routinely rescued by wild dolphins.  I'll give Aajonus the benefit of the doubt.  Even if it were just in his dreams... it doesn't matter.  What matters is he teaches useful things.  His teachings are logical and they work in the hands of people who can see.  I'm lucky I'm a hobby healer... his teachings are useful... more tools for me.

I teach people how to cure "the incurables."

I have eczema and psoriasis cure protocols... when I initially reported my joy and shared my knowledge... the forum administrators at skincell.org screamed at me and shut me out and called me a fraud and they deleted everything I posted on their forum.  So I made my own website so everyone will know www.eczemacure.info
 
This led me to learning about cures for cancer, diabetes, dengue fever, pneumonia, gout, etc... they are all cureable... and some people call me nuts... and some people send me emails and just say thank you.

I say most people are narrow minded television addicts.

I can't help but worry that the odd mix of pseudoscience, cultism, and spiritualism that Aajonus has managed to market so successfully to his niche community of followers has been more of a liability than an asset to the public image of RAF.

I do not see Aajonus' work as pseudoscience, cultism or spiritualism.  I've been through other teachers and healers and Aajonus' work just shows experience... hands on. 

Aajonus is not about RAF.  Aajonus is about healing, what in his experience works, he also uses vegetables and fruit. 

Other healers or practitioners have to adjust according to what works for your patient.

   My feeling is that if we want to attract attention to and build credibility for our views on nutrition, we would be better off sticking to the more substantiated, scientific side of the RAF debate, at least publicly.

As mentioned, many scientific studies and personal practitioners are just reporting their results.  I do not see why you are so focused on Aajonus when there is Weston Price, Wai Genriiu, Francis Pottenger, Vinny Pinto, Geoff Purcell, natural hygiene teachers and many scattered videos of practitioners in the internet.  Maybe you just need to be pointed specifically to the URLs of the other teachings?  I got a couple of videos on my recommended diet page at http://www.curemanual.com/diet-strategies and Aajonus is not on that page.

I realize that this forum is basically a private group of like minded individuals, and I don't mean to suggest that we ought to completely mute our discussion of these sorts of ideas. I just think that its worth keeping in mind that at this point in time, information supporting the dietary views that we support are pretty scarce.

Truth is not a popularity contest or gets to be voted upon.  Truth is just what works.  I believe this forum is all of us altruistically putting our heads together to provide information for each other.  Also to give those poor unfortunate raw vegans who have crumbling health... just like many of us who came from raw vegan... the only natural transition was to add raw animal food and ta dah... you have RPD.

Vegetarianism is more far fetched - there is no historical human tribe that is vegan.

  In most parts of the developed world, the sight of a person eating raw meat is more likely to give the impression of psychopathy than superior health. 

Good thing I live in a 3rd world country where eating raw eggs and raw ocean fish and raw ocean shellfish is NORMAL.  But I've been to france and italy and they eat raw beef with nice sounding names.

Japanese restaurants in our city charge exorbitant prices for sashimi. 10x the price in the wet market.

Being one of the few public communities on the net, I think we would be wise to keep in mind the impression we inevitably have on the outside world, especially open minded individuals who are considering a RAF diet.

It's good you brought this up.  Thank you.  I can see a lot of mis-conceptions.  And yes you are entitled to this mis-conception.  Maybe we need to arrange the NEWBIE section so that it is more prominent so as to avoid future newbie mis-conceptions.

Keep it up.  Your comments will help make the websites better.

I hope I did not offend anybody.  I am indebted to this community for expanding my horizons nutritionally speaking, and the last thing I want to do is to step on the feet of those who have been so helpful me.  I just want to shed some light on the sorts of things that a newcomer to the idea of RAF finds potentially outputting (speaking from experience) so that others like me are not turned away from the great health advantages eating this way confers.

No offense taken.  We learn from each other.

This morning at breakfast I had:

Mangoes - pico variety
Coconut juice and meat

Then my cook and I went to the wet market to shop: we got goat meat, goat liver and kidneys, 4 kinds of ocean small fish, ocean dulong fish, yellow fatty beef, organic coconut vinegar, 1 kilo of blue marlin.  None of these were frozen, these are all freshly caught or killed.

Upon getting home I had:

1/2 cup of the dulong fish and squeezed 2 calamansi citrus in them just for disinfection
1 fertilized duck egg (I stole from the nest of one of our ducks) 

One big benefit of the raw paleolithic diet is the consumption of the easiest to digest raw fruits and raw animal foods. These are the best foods for humans. Plants, aka vegetables are a far 3rd… eat in times of starvation… or as herbs… but not as food! Only the raw vegan educated will gladly eat awful tasting grass instead of a succulent tree ripened fruit or a freshly killed juicy raw steak.

I live in a tropical climate so our fruits are organic / wild and they are fantastic… fantastic in price too… compared to dirt cheap vegetables. Of course if budget is a problem, you can be miserable and eat raw veggies instead of expensive fruit.

What brought up this blog post is a conversation with Patrick Timpone at www.OneRadioNetwork.com. Patrick is the owner and radio broadcaster of One Radio Network. He is smoking hot on the trail of all the very best health experts he can find. Download his podcasts and burn it in your CD and listen in your car or upload it to your mp3 player and listen to his radio interviews in your spare time. Awesome. How the convergence of technologies allows a health truth seeker like Patrick to be able to interview all these gurus.

So Patrick has been doing raw vegan for some time and this time decided to add some raw animal foods to his diet. Of course there are adjustments in the execution of the raw paleolithic diet from a raw vegan mindset. Whereas in a raw vegan setting it may take a combination of plant foods to approximate the nutrition required by humans… raw meat itself is a complete super food that needs only to be eaten alone.

This is how our conversation went in the forum and I hope everyone benefits by reading this:

Patrick said in response to how to eat raw beef video:

    “cute children. Do you try to buy grass fed beef? Many say that is the very best. Do you agree? I’ve been mixing think slices of raw grass fed beef/buffalo from people I know at local Farmers Market…I mix all in to salad with olive oil, sea salt, ground up seaweed etc. and it tastes way yummy.

    I must say my first two weeks was the best and the past few days…not digesting as well. Not sure what that is about.

    Ideas?”

I reply:

    “Hi Patrick,

    I only buy grass fed beef.

    The reason you are not digesting well is you made the worst food combination which is a primary caution on eating raw paleo diet:

    - Never, never, never ever mix your greens (salads) with your fats (olive oil) and meats (beef)

    - The reason being greens need alkaline digestion. Meats and fats need acid digestion. They are complete opposites. Put those two together and your stomach can’t decide how to go about it.

    - This is why using extra virgin olive oil with salad greens is a false paradigm. This is why leafy greens are suggested to be juiced and the fiber thrown out. Just drink the green juice as is.

    - Fiber consumption for health is a myth. Barefoot and Aajonus also point this out. Even david wolfe prefers to juice his greens. Here is a link to this fiber myth expose: http://www.curemanual.com/blog/2008/10/exposing-the-fiber-myth-buy-the-book-fiber-menace/

    - The only natural fiber we humans should consume is that naturally found in fruit.

    - What makes people move their bowels are fruit and fat… not fiber.

    - A salad like fruit is cucumber. Cucumber is a fruit. It has seeds. You can dip cucumber in your raw mayonnaise or extra virgin olive oil and some raw honey and balsamic vinegar.

    The best raw food combination is NO raw food combination. Eat one food at a time.

    If you are ever going to eat another food after or before your fat or meat, make it a fruit.

    Another item you may want to remember is to not drink water within 30 minutes before or after a fat or meat meal because it dilutes your digestive juices.

    Disclaimer: Of course these are opinions that work for me and my family which I have verified with teachers.”

Patrick replies:

    “Edwin,

    Well, all that is very interesting indeed. I’ve eaten extra virgin olive oil on salads for years, and really never had excellent bowel health.

    Yes, I do fruits and fats together. Coconut butter etc. in smoothies with lecithin etc.

    Interesting indeed the idea of having the raw meat, cheese, kefir or eggs totally alone, nothing else.

    So my thinking was the enzymes from the greens will help digest the meat. It worked for about two weeks and then no go. Interesting.

    I’ll try the animal food alone and see what happens. Keep in touch and thanks for the ideas. As you say, the proof is in the pudding. It is also important, I think to try ideas from people who are getting the results that you want.
    Hey, you have a family and live in on a tropical island..you’re doing something right

    I sent an email to the Fiber is a menace author and we’ll get him on the show.

    Blessings,

    patrick”

I reply:

    “Hi Patrick,

    To experience skyrocketing digestion, stop eating plants… yes… stop eating vegetables… Barefoot Herbalist MH will tell you the same thing.

    Eat local raw ripe organic fruits in season and fatty raw animal foods

    Fruits digest in 30 minutes.

    Raw animal food in small quantities in just 1 hour. remember to eat raw fats.

    Wai Genriiu has a factual observation on:

    We Don’t Need to Eat Plants

    In Short :

    We are not pigeons.
    We are not cows.

    Therefore we don’t have a crop to digest cereals, nor 4 stomachs to gradually digest grasses or leaves. Cereals and vegetables contain many different substances inhibiting digestion and the uptake of nutrients in humans. To maximally absorb all required nutrients, you need to consume easy-digestible raw foods. And fruits and sashimi or fresh raw egg yolk (mixed with avocado) combined, contain all nutrients you need. There is not a single nutrient in vegetables or cereals, fruits do not contain. (see site3)

    To prevent your tummy to swell; don’t consume any beans, vegetables or grains. However, some vegetables you may find easy to digest, which allows you to eat these.

    http://www.youngerthanyourage.com/13/plants.htm”

Wow, Patrick will contact Fiber Menace author for an interview. Go Patrick, go!

Originally posted at http://www.curemanual.com/blog/2008/11/my-opinion-on-raw-paleolithic-diet-fruits-and-meats-are-easiest-to-digest/

I don't watch star wars for the science or the physics.

When I want science and physics I go to http://www.thunderbolts.info and lately what is interesting is the Bedini Motor and the Keppe Motor, all tapping into the scalar energies... "free energy" or in practicals... greatly reduced energy consumption.  Plus the fact that scalar energies have been used in healing for quite some time.  Scalar enhanced mineral supplements like EMC or Quantum Mineral Drops work fast... like magic for some... it's just new science... and Filipino inventors are catching up.

I understand your POV.
I like Star Wars because of the cool special effects and the worlds created by Lucas.

I'm happy to have been watching the new TV series Star Wars Clone Wars.  It's everything a Star Wars movie should be.  Great acting, great animation, great action.  I'm like a kid again... watching it over and over and over again.  I never thought they could produce such high quality Star Wars television shows, each episode is a work of art... George Lucas art.