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Messages - risrosen

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Primal Diet / Re: What would AV say, re honey/teeth?
« on: December 23, 2010, 12:02:53 am »
    What kind of dental hygiene techniques do you use?  Do you use toothpaste?  If so, what are the ingredients?

I don't use toothpaste.  I brush with an electric toothbrush once a day.  Have stopped going to dentists, for better or worse.

Primal Diet / Re: What would AV say, re honey/teeth?
« on: December 22, 2010, 02:28:27 pm »
    What do you mean, you can only eat two ounces.  Do you start projectile vomiting?

    I don't believe in good vs bad.  Eating cooked food brings on leukocytes in the body.  You are on a raw forum.  You have been trying for years.  You want to eat raw.  You are finding it near impossible.  You keep eating cooked meat.  Cooked meat eating has been studied.  You don't stick with grassfed.  You've never said how you cook your meat.  Certain styles of cooking meat seem to have been proven to raise peoples chances of heart disease, cancer and other diseases.  Cooking meat destroys B vitamins.  B vitamins help keep you calm.  Cooked meat isn't bad, but I'd say you may be addicted to it.  Yuli has a good idea.  Eat that 2 oz so often, that you don't have to eat big cooked meat meals. 

    Do fish, liver and all other meats give you the same exact symptom/stop signals as each other?  Do highmeats do it too?  Have you tried preserved meats?  Are the raw meats marinated or dried?

    When I started eating this diet I ALWAYS ate unheated honey with my (raw) meat.  I didn't do it in a 50:50 proportion.  It helped my digestion and more.  I did the honey way to help microorganisms.  Eating the two together as such, it strengthened my heart. 

   I think cooked meat is fine, but my teeth don't.  Any kind of dense protein cooked causes pain in my teeth, raw dark cruciferous whole greens too.  Maybe if I ate whole meals of it and often, my teeth would be loosening.  I'd be wishing they'd fall out, or that I could have some drugs.  I'd best let everyone know if they were bothering me like that, that there's a problem and I need help.  It just causes too much problem in my body.  I have to find my way with raw.  I too, don't usually eat much meat.  I have almost never eaten more than 3 oz at a time.  If I need it more often, that's what I should do.  I don't want to look toothless or have pain. 

    Paleo man ate almost all of his meat raw.  He had strong teeth.  Apparently to me his teeth stayed in by eating raw meat.  Modern man needs so many caps, crowns, fillings and root canals.  Modern man hardly ever eats raw meat, and frequently eats cooked meat.  There doesn't seem to be much math there for me.

    I agree with Yuli, as I pretty much said before.  Honey is not bad.  Even people with sensitivities to honey find changing which flower it comes from, whether they eat it with wax etc can make all the difference in the world.  I truly wish you well. 

Okay, shouldn't have used "good" and "bad".  I meant, healthful or unhealthful for humans.

As for eating the raw meat: no projectile vomiting, I just get full, or at least have a feeling of being full.  That feeling can last for hours.  Doesn't matter if it's grassfed or not, organ or muscle meat.  It happens with wild fish too.  It doesn't work for me to eat the 2 oz. raw meat frequently throughout the day.  Just the 2 oz. is tiring to my digestion and repeating becomes harder and harder.  I don't have that problem with eggs.  So it's easy for me to see why AV starts people with very poor digestion on eggs and no meat.  There's value in giving the digestion a little challenge, to gradually increase its strength, but too much is too much.  Better to give the body a chance to do some healing first, until it can handle the meat.

Haven't tried high meat yet, but one only eats very small amounts of that at a time anyway, right?  Haven't tried marinated, preserved, etc.

At the moment, I'm not sure if I want to do raw or not.  I haven't been trying THAT for years, but maybe that's not what you were saying--just trying different things for years, which is the case.  I wasn't finding raw impossible when I was doing it recently, just difficult.  Had a bad constipation problem, called AV, he straightened it out.  That did impress me.  I've also been very impressed with some of my raw experiences.  But I was doing some things wrong in trying to go it on my own (using his book), that AV pointed out (his book is often unclear or misleading, it seems to me).  So I think that if I'm going to attempt to go raw for healing, I'd better have a consultation with him.  And that means an investment of money--not just initially, but every time I have to contact him afterward with problems, and there may be many.  And I only have a certain amount of trust in him, and quite a lot of mistrust.  As someone in this thread pointed out, this is all experimental.  And I've already invested money in this other program, and a little time, and I want to at least keep my options open with the intuitive, which may not be possible if I go starting and stopping.  Some things about his program are impressing me too.

So, not a simple decision.  And there are other issues that I won't bring up here.

Thanks for the feedback and the good wishes.

Primal Diet / Re: What would AV say, re honey/teeth?
« on: December 22, 2010, 12:06:32 pm »
Your points are well-taken, Yuli, and I thank you for them.   "Confused" was a poorly chosen word; I just meant I don't want to be dogmatic about practically anything to do with diet anymore.  Seems like there's nothing that doesn't work for some people.

As I said, I'm following the medical intuitive's protocol.  He gave me a list of foods that he intuited would be good for me but he didn't specify anything about how I should structure my eating them.  I do eat meat (steamed fish, fish is the only meat allowed me thus far) or eggs (can even be raw!) 3x/day.  The supplements are very important in this treatment.  I do want to give this a fair shot, anyway, before I think seriously about going back to RP, but that would almost certainly be next in line.  If I do come back to this I'll keep what you've said in mind.

I have noooooo idea where to get quail eggs though...

Anyway, I'll take your ideas with lots of salt, as you suggest...but doesn't AV say salt is bad for the adrenals?  Oh well... ;)

Primal Diet / Re: What would AV say, re honey/teeth?
« on: December 22, 2010, 08:40:42 am »
   Oh yeah, I've spoken with him on phone, but I always wind up writing.  I feel like I have too much to say at those times to fit into ten minutes, hence $60.

    Sounds like you are very nervous.  This may be deteriorating your teeth.  I would say try harder to eat raw grassfed meat.  Have you tried raw chicken?  Raw fish?  If so, how was it?  Did you eat it with fat?  Maybe you are addicted to cooked meat.

Nervous?  Me?  Just because I have to take an anxiety med to eat?  Surely you jest.

My teeth have suffered enormous abuse during the last 15 years, with all the sugar and lack of nutrition and all.  They are plenty deteriorated already.  But if suddenly things happen after eating a lot of unheated honey, I want to know why--nervousness is not a sufficient explanation, obviously.

I've tried raw fish, muscle meats, liver.  I generally don't have a problem with the "yuk factor" kind of thing.  I just can only eat about 2 oz., with or without fat.  I'd much rather eat raw meat than raw eggs, as I find it much more satisfying and it makes me feel better.  But eggs are way easier for me to digest.  I'm not going to "try harder"; my digestive limits have made themselves very clear.

As for being "addicted" to cooked meat, I think that presupposes the "raw meat good, cooked meat bad" sort of paradigm, which I'm not prepared to subscribe to.  At this point I'm so thoroughly confused that I have pretty much given up on dietary paradigms beyond "SAD is bad" and am just going with what works best.

Primal Diet / Re: What would AV say, re honey/teeth?
« on: December 22, 2010, 12:23:07 am »
Hi RawZi,

Last time I ate cooked meat...let's was...oh yeah, last night. ;)
I'm not currently on a primal or raw diet.  Consulting with a medical intuitive at the moment.  If his program doesn't help enough I'll probably end up giving raw paleo a more thorough shot, so that's why I asked about the honey.

My problems started 15 years ago when I became an Ayurvedic vegetarian.  I also did a week of panchakarma, which involves a very low-fat diet.  I then started getting full too fast and having trouble swallowing food.  My belief is that my liver was probably compromised going into this, and with this diet (and also that I was in a situation in which I was eating in stressful conditions at the same time), it just began to give me overt problems.  These increased gradually as I continued to eat a mostly vegan diet until I started having very acute trouble digesting fats, and finally one day I had a major digestive episode eating a meal with a lot of fat, from which I never recovered; from then on I could only eat small amounts of food at a time and began living on cereal and sweet stuff, sometimes including huge amounts of sugar, which went on for 8+ years.  Eventually I started eating meat and more regular-type foods again, but it's always been difficult.  

During all that I also developed a severe OCD about any kind of stress during eating, which can make eating very difficult on top of the other problems that I developed (constipation, blood sugar problems, stomach gas) along with all this.

As for milk: I went on the raw milk cure for quite a while early this year, using fermented milk.  Not chilled.  Had to be able to skim some cream off, so had to use cow rather than goat.  Still had a lot of trouble with t.  Tried everything, including totally grass-fed with no grain, to no avail.  I've not tried any milk other than cow and goat, but of those two goat is clearly better for me.

One thing about the raw paleo is that the OCD problem is much better eating that food.  So I was doing it for a couple of weeks prior to a week ago, because I was in an ongoing triggering situation.  That was my second try with raw paleo.  The first time was a few years ago, when I had very little knowledge about it (still had some eye-opening experiences, though).  This time I finally stopped due mostly to not really having anything besides the raw eggs to eat that worked well, and now I've gone on Xanax just to be able to eat the (mostly cooked) food on the medical intuitive's program.  First time I've resorted to that.  Should just be for a short time, though.

Aajonus' minimum phone charge currently is $35, which is a 10-minute call.


Primal Diet / Re: What would AV say, re honey/teeth?
« on: December 21, 2010, 06:25:09 am »
Even the Primal Diet includes a lot of raw meat in it, as a mainstay. So, even PDers don't just eat only raw honey, raw dairy and raw eggs.

I know, but I'm one of those who's GI tracts are too messed up to start on meat yet.

Primal Diet / Re: What would AV say, re honey/teeth?
« on: December 21, 2010, 06:21:40 am »
   What ratio honey to butter did AV tell you?  Everyone I know he tells cow milk.  I've heard babies and vegetarians do better with goat.  You're not vego, right?  

    Which book, RFLWD?

He didn't say.  I just assumed it would be equal. 
I'm not vego, but I do better with goat, whether it's raw or not.
The only book I have is WWTL.

Primal Diet / Re: What would AV say, re honey/teeth?
« on: December 21, 2010, 06:16:41 am »
    How much are you meaning, by significant amounts?  Earlier you had posted that some days the great majority of your calories are from honey, one day eating only one egg and the rest of calls from honey.  I don't know that AV would ever agree to a person taking that amount.

    One of the days you wrote you got a migraine, then your fillings fell out.  I think that would be consistent where it's said that aajonus says the brain detoxes through the teeth.  Maybe your brain has toxins, and your fillings were in the way of the toxins leaving.

    That's funny.  When ordering honey, they asked me about the glass plastic thing almost apologetically.  I like glass much better, but I'm not sure plastic harms honey easily.  I went for the plastic, a gallon jar, it was fine.

    I heard AV say to use a tiny drop of honey with a sugar cube size of RAW cheese (unsalted) fifteen minutes after meals to get the minerals (calcium) from the cheese.  I know he recommends a little honey with food to help digestion and help other things in the body.  Does he ever recommend a honey diet garnished with an egg occasionally?  It sounds good for a humming bird.  I knew a raw foodist who ate mostly honey, he buzzed around wildly all day.

    Are you still eating the cooked meat?  I've always had such trouble with cooked meat.  My immune system must feel my body is totally invaded when cooked meat enters.  Everything starts hurting, stiffness and all kinds of stuff happens.  What health problems got you to start thinking of trying raw?  When was the first time you tried raw meat?  Have you eaten it regularly?  I tasted it as a child.  I started eating it regularly about four years ago, that's when I first tasted it again.  There was about 35 years in between.  I actually didn't touch cooked meat either for most of that time.  Maybe honey is easier on someone who hasn't eaten too much cooked meat, but I don't think so.  I know AV has said raw meat is man's diet, early man, that food above all else.  I also know people he recommends eggs and nothing at all else, as their digestive tracts are messed up.

    Maybe you should dump the honey and just eat eggs.  My teeth feel cleaned by eating eggs.  I think it's the egg whites.  If you haven't yet, maybe see if an all egg diet 100%, if that alone works better with your teeth.  AV does promote for most of the calories in the diet to be of fat.

That one day you referred to was very unusual, when I felt like I couldn't eat anything.  I'd never do that otherwise.  Other than that one day, I just used it in the remedies AV gives, when I was trying them.

What you wrote about the brain detox, that's the kind of thing I'm thinking might have been happening. 

I haven't done much raw meat.  Had some experiences of feeling really good from it, but my digestion is just too messed up to handle much of it (can only eat 2 oz at a time, and even that gives me problems).  That's why I just do eggs for RAP.  But I can't just eat raw eggs all day; my body clearly signals that I need something else in addition, so since someone said that AV starts people with messed up digestive tracts on eggs and honey/butter and very little else, I thought to try the h/b, as soon as I can get some raw butter.  But I want to make sure it's not going to hurt my teeth. 

Primal Diet / Re: What would AV say, re honey/teeth?
« on: December 21, 2010, 03:23:07 am »
Yeah, I know, but with the honey thing, he seems to recommend it SO much in his book for just about everything, I'd think people's teeth would be developing a lot of problems if it did harm teeth in pretty large amounts.  And to have a go with the RP, it seems I'd have to be eating mostly eggs and honey/butter, and maybe some goat milk if I could get it, for a prolonged period.  So I need to know if the honey fairly safe in that context.  

Perhaps it's safer mixed with the butter than just plain?

Primal Diet / Re: What would AV say, re honey/teeth?
« on: December 21, 2010, 02:57:40 am »
Well, considering a fairly short time with the honey had fillings falling out, pain, etc., I would sure hesitate to do any further significant amounts until I heard some cogent explanation/solution about the matter.

I will add, for what it's worth--and I can't imagine that's very much, but who knows--that just before the problems started, I had to switch from honey in a glass jar to honey in a plastic jar.  But I doubt that means anything, that the damage had been done from the first while with the first honey.

Primal Diet / What would AV say, re honey/teeth?
« on: December 20, 2010, 11:57:17 pm »
In my first somewhat extended (2-3 weeks) attempt at RP recently, I was eating quite a lot of (unheated raw) honey.  Some of this was with fat--not, however, raw butter, because I couldn't get any--and some not, just because of my really poor digestion.  At one point I got some migraines over a couple of days (I was living on mostly raw eggs, and I assumed the migraines were detox--I used to get them a lot years ago), and dealt with them through the solution given in WWTL, which is to eat a little honey every 5 minutes or so until it goes away.  That worked fairly well.

At first with the honey, I seemed to handle it well, without getting noticeable blood sugar issues.  And it didn't seem to bother my teeth, which usually will react fairly quickly to a lot of sugar eating.  In fact, my teeth seemed to get less sensitive; I didn't have any problem rinsing my mouth with cold water, for example, which usually is very uncomfortable.  But then suddenly, when I was getting the migraines, I got a fairly bad toothache, and I ended up losing some dental fillings, which will happen if I eat a lot of sugar.  So I dropped the honey immediately.

I'd already called Aajonus the day before about something else, and money being tight I was hesitant to spend another $35 to ask him about this.  Can anyone hazard a guess about what he might say about this honey issue?  He seems to think that unheated honey can't cause problems with teeth, from what I've read.  Mine aren't in very good shape from everything I've gone through digestively in the last 15 years.

General Discussion / Re: High meat risks?
« on: November 23, 2010, 01:40:49 pm »
The new theory I have been toying with involves viewing high meat Not as a probiotic but a symbiotic, a substance that enhances life force. Through our evolution our genes have been shaped by the interactions with of these symbiotic organisms that live in us as well as around us and high meat works with this principle to restore this life force in those with the genetic need for it.

Interesting.  Perhaps you've heard of symbiotic rawfoodists, raw vegans who claim that the key to good health is the accumulation of 3-5 lbs. of aerobic bacteria in the body.

Health / Re: Can't eat very much
« on: November 23, 2010, 03:56:57 am »
I mean like less than 10 minutes.  Or 3 egg yolks in a minute or two.  But I don't think my problem has anything to do with my satiety getting triggered.  My digestion is just bad, on several levels.  My liver is obviously in bad shape, not producing enough bile, and my pancreas has problems, to name two. 

Health / Re: Can't eat very much
« on: November 22, 2010, 09:49:45 pm »
Sometimes when I eat too slowly because I'm doing multiple things will eating I find I get full on a very small amount of meat. Consider eating faster so your satiety signals don't kick in until 20 minutes.

I don't eat slowly.  I finish 2 oz. of meat in much less than 20 minutes.

General Discussion / Re: High meat risks?
« on: November 22, 2010, 09:46:54 pm »
Have you noticed a predisposition for any particular illnesses?

From Wackipedia;

"A 28-year follow-up of 740 veterans of World War II who had their spleen removed on the battlefield found that those who had been splenectomised showed a significant excess of mortality from pneumonia (6 from an expected 1.3) and a significant excess of mortality from ischaemic heart disease (4.1 from an expected 3) but not from other conditions"

No, I rarely get sick, and nothing worse than colds or maybe mild flu that don't last long.  Of course I've been told by doctors that I should be immunized, though I don't listen to them.

General Discussion / Re: High meat risks?
« on: November 21, 2010, 07:46:14 am »
One more question about high meat.  Someone said it's not usually introduced into a rp diet for quite a while.  Is that for physical reasons or psychological (the ick factor)? 

Health / Re: Is Aajonus trustworthy?
« on: November 21, 2010, 07:43:11 am »
also ris rosen, find all the highest quality meats that you can, and see which ones your body likes the best. raw liver from one farm or animal may be totally different than another.

You mean not all beef liver tastes that bad?  It was grass-fed.

I was starting to make high meat out of some of it.  Guess I'll go for it.

Health / Re: Is Aajonus trustworthy?
« on: November 21, 2010, 03:23:24 am »
If it did happen it would be by far one of the most beautiful stories I have ever heard.
Coyotes are actually pretty cool animals, here in Az I have run into packs and had no worry.

Well, I was joking.  Thinking of Carlos Castaneda and the talking deer.   ;)

Health / Re: Is Aajonus trustworthy?
« on: November 21, 2010, 02:19:06 am »
About the coyote story --
I have no way of judging whether it's true or not. It certainly is possible for animals to act in unusual ways, and help and feed others. Take a look at this video, where a crow feeds and takes care of a kitten. In light of this, the coyote story is not completely implausible.

Yeah, I re-read it last night and it doesn't sound so far out to me now.  I mean, it's not like the coyotes talked to him.

Health / On raw eggs now; advice on wait time between feedings?
« on: November 21, 2010, 01:47:25 am »
I've started on the raw eggs this morning, which I figure I'll be doing for at least a little while, until I'm ready to try meat again.  Had two for first feeding.  I'm wondering how long I should wait between feedings.  Assuming I can only eat 2 at a time, and that I'll probably want to get a goodly  number (considering my present limited capacity) in for the whole day.  The thing is that my stomach still has some of that full feeling, which started about an hour after I ate the eggs (last night as well)--although I'm less afraid of it now--so I don't really have any hunger sensations to guide me, just the feeling that my blood sugar is getting too low.  (Which, really, is the way it has been on cooked food too.  Either the clock or low blood sugar prompted me to eat.)  I know I have to go by my bodily signals to some extent, I just basically want to know what the minimum time I should wait is.  I have built up a lot of fear during my years of eating difficulties about eating too close to my last meal.

Health / Re: Egg Yolk Liver Flushing: The Paleo Liver Flush
« on: November 21, 2010, 01:06:29 am »
GS, you recommended a colon cleanse to me yesterday.  Would you recommend that I do that before a liver cleanse?  Anything else I need to do before?  I would probably do coffee enemas rather than the yolk flush to start with.

Also, re the colon cleanse with Oxypowder (I have some), it says to increase the dose until 3-5 bowel movements a day.  But what if one is not eating much food?

Health / Re: Is Aajonus trustworthy?
« on: November 20, 2010, 09:42:44 pm »
I guess raw liver could be not as soft but still easier to digest than cooked.  Perhaps as you said, I'm making some erroneous assumptions.  Yesterday I read an article by Mark Sisson citing a study that found that cooked egg protein is much more bioavailable than raw, and yet I'm certain that what happened to me last night with the raw egg would not have happened with a cooked one.  Not only did it clear my stomach and rejuvenate me, I actually slept last night after a day of maybe 700-800 calories, most of it raw honey.  No restless leg syndrome.  The one egg was my only fat and protein.  That's astonishing.

General Discussion / Re: A Raw Low Fat Diet is Man's Natural State?
« on: November 20, 2010, 03:03:19 pm »
That might be true for the kind of raw vegan diet I think he espouses, which is one in which most of the calories come from sweet fruit.  Apparently a lot of people who had mucho problems with a high-fat raw vegan diet did much better with a low-fat one.

Health / Re: Is Aajonus trustworthy?
« on: November 20, 2010, 11:04:30 am »
Okay, okay...first I want to say that out of sheer desperation and not-giving-a-f*ck anymore, seeing that the juice fast was going to do me no good, I ate a whole raw egg, as AV said to.  And you know what?  My stomach feels a lot better.

And okay, some raw meats are easy to chew, particularly ground meat.  Fish is definitely harder, at least the cod I yesterday and the day before (maybe others are easier--salmon, tuna).  Steak was fine.  Liver is definitely harder!!!  And beef liver has a totally gross taste.  Lamb liver is okay.  Anyway, I'll give in, I don't even want to think about it anymore tonight.  The raw egg seems to have worked, and I'm a lot happier.

Yes, I have tried to eat raw meat, as much as I was able.  It's just been hard, or I haven't been doing it right, or something.  The first prolonged round, a few years ago, I would eat it with coconut oil and raw butter, which might have complicated things.  I did a whole week of 3x/day meat eating then.  But the ick factor carries very little weight with me.  After 15+ years of suffering like this?  I don't find raw mammal muscle meat icky at all anyway.  Organ meat a lot more, but it still doesn't bother me.  If you asked me to eat a cockroach, yeah...EXTREME ick factor.  Or insect larva.  But raw meat?  No.

I would think enjoyment would be kind of important, though, to stimulate the production of stomach acid.  If the food you're eating is completely unstimulating, might it not be harder for you to digest because of that?  So maybe muscle meats are better for the newbie.  Maybe that's why last night's liver went down so bad, I didn't enjoy it at all.

Yeah, the meat being swallowed in large pieces...I'd just read on somebody's site that Aajonus says don't chew it much (though I see there's disagreement on that issue here) I was trying not to.  I wasn't swallowing it in large pieces, though.  But I was swallowing the liver without much chewing.  In small pieces, but maybe I do need to start off with ground meat.

But for the moment, eggs it is.

Health / Re: Is Aajonus trustworthy?
« on: November 20, 2010, 07:50:55 am »
Okay, then explain to me why I've been eating 4-6 ounces of cooked meat per meal, for meals in which I ate meat, every day for years, without any mishaps, and yet I couldn't handle two days of eating raw meat, I couldn't eat and have never in the last 10 years been able to eat more than 2 oz. of raw meat at a time, and I had such a very difficult time with even that much last night, even prior to the gelatin and cereal.

I don't know much about the physiology of digestion.  But it's simply a fact that raw meat takes much more sheer digestive power to process.  And why that is seems very obvious; after all, raw meat is harder to chew and harder to cut than cooked.  If it take more energy to break down with a knife and with teeth, it must take more energy for the stomach to break it down.  Why did Aajonus suggest I eat raw eggs instead of raw meat?  They're a semi-liquid, therefore easier to break down.  I'm talking strictly about that initial level of it.

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