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Messages - Löwenherz

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76
General Discussion / Re: Can we do without vegetables/greens?
« on: October 26, 2012, 11:34:27 pm »
And besides, raw meats are far less acidic than cooked/processed meats.

Raw meats have actually an alkaline effect on our bodies, as one german physician, Dr. med. Klaus Hoffmann found out. He recommended his patients with rheumatic diseases to eat raw meat.

Unfortunately most doctors are still unable to think beyond their more or less useless medical eduaction..

Löwenherz

77
General Discussion / Re: Can we do without vegetables/greens?
« on: October 26, 2012, 11:19:17 pm »
Ok, I’m a stupid ignoramus, no problem.

Iguana, sorry for my slightly harsh comment. But I get allergic reactions when I read ignorant words like "trendy obscure fad about keto adaptation", "a ridiculous one-food-only diet (mackerel in your example)" (which I never recommended) or instincto drivel like "categorizing by delineating artificial limits".

I have seen too many raw foodists in the last 13 years who have seriously damaged their physical and mental health by eating too much fruit sugar. Sugar nearly always tastes good to nearly everyone. Do we need sugar? No. For me, it's extremely artificial and absolutely not recommendable to eat imported overbred high sugar fruits like mangoes and durians in our north European climate zones, especially during winter times.

But I don't want to discuss the instincto ideas and practices here again. As you know I view it as completely absurd.

The question here was: Do we need plant foods to be healthy? I think another question could be even more interesting:

Ketogenic or not ketogenic?

I have seen tremendous healing effects during strict ketogenic diets based on animal foods, like many others. Even small amounts of fruit sugar terminated this healing state abruptly...

Many greetings to Southern France

Löwenherz

78
General Discussion / Re: Can we do without vegetables/greens?
« on: October 25, 2012, 06:07:24 am »
Oh hey, do you happen to have any links to any information about fiber being unnecessary or harmful?
Wolf, a good read is the book from Wolfgang Lutz about gi tract health. But I don't know if it's available in english. Here is an interesting website about ketogenic diets and fiber:

http://www.biblelife.org/bowel.htm

Why do people usually cook hard plant foods? To reduce the fiber. Eating lots of RAW vegetables is a very new fad.

Non-plus-ultra? The best of the best!

Here is a cheap and good source for 100% grass-fed beef fat (better than suet!):

http://whiteoakpastures.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=117&zenid=16e23fc8ca373274724a1f6d2852cc57

3.89 USD for 2.5 lbs.

I bought several times from them. The quality is good. The farm is located in GA. Shipping should be no problem.

If you ask me, NEVER eat grain-fed meat!

Löwenherz

79
General Discussion / Re: Can we do without vegetables/greens?
« on: October 25, 2012, 05:40:17 am »
Oh man, I just heard about that fish in my American Indian history class, I think the teacher said that they were so high in fat that they were mostly used as candles because they burned so easily.. hearing that, since I always crave fat in my diet, I immediately googled the fish since I had my laptop with me in class.  Wikipedia says the fish is considered an endangered species, and that disappointed me because now there's no way I'd get to try eating them.   :(

Oh yeah, sounds really like a "super-food". Obviously, many, too many people were under this impression.

Be glad to live in the United States. Bison-fat is the non-plus-ultra, isn't it?

Löwenherz

80
General Discussion / Re: Can we do without vegetables/greens?
« on: October 25, 2012, 05:30:50 am »
It’s not based on any belief at all, my friend, it’s based on the fact that there’s no mammal on Earth who is able to totally exclude the ingestion of  plants, even more so in reference to an trendy obscure fad about ‘keto adaptation’.

Iguana,

you have absolutely no experience with ketogenic diets based on animal foods. Nevertheless you categorically condemn such diets. You mentioned here and there that you believe that Lex Rooker's dietary approach is silly or absurd.

And again, your reluctant attitude is solely based on your beliefs, nothing else my friend. You don't have any valid argument. You believe that we need plant foods because most animals eat plant foods? Human beings are no apes or wolves. Or do you believe such things because your guru believes it?

Personally, I don't know for sure if it is wise to avoid all plant foods. Tyler mentioned that there are no nutrients in plants that cannot be found in animals. And he is right. I studied several nutrient databases in detail. If you eat a variety of organ meats from land mammals + seafood you definetely get ALL known nutrients in sufficient amounts, including folates. Furthermore it's a proven fact that plant fiber is not necessary for a healthy human gi tract. In many cases harsh plant fiber is even harmful. That's the reason why "normal" people cook and raw foodists most often juice such foods.

The significant therapeutic effects of ketogenic diets are well documentated, especially in the cases of cancer, epileptic children and infertility. Many detailed reports are available at several University Hospitals. It's very stupid if you believe that ketogenic diets are just a "trendy obscure fad". If you believe that you need fruits and nuts, it's fine. But don't ignore the facts. Scientific facts and even reports in this forum. Lex, Inger and many others here seem to do very well on ketogenic diets that are very low in plant foods. On the other side a huge number of raw foodists got massive health problems from high fruit sugar consumption.

Please reread my post. I think that a mackerel diet or similar mono diets are everything else than a good idea.

Löwenherz

81
I would really like to throw my "identity card" into the trashcan and forget my birthdate..  ;)

Löwenherz

82
Welcoming Committee / Re: Hi, I am new, to all of this.
« on: October 25, 2012, 12:53:06 am »
Just thought I would say hi, I was recommended here.  I am a schizophrenic, on a lot of supplements, and never thought about this type of diet that was suggested from a friend on this site.  I take Niacin and Glycine in great quantities, and it helps me from rotating in cycles of confusion but I still do take the psychiatric medications, even though limiting them very much at times. I might drop one for the other, now that I feel less symptomatic, but I am interested in knowing more about probiotics, and certainly can't read a whole terrible amount tonight, but I am curious for any advice, especially about coffee replacements.  I have seen some teas, but also some warnings, and don't know what to trust, except perhaps green tea.  I live in the US, Pacific Northwest.

Welcome to the slaughterhouse!

Raw WILD seafood is a powerful brainbooster with really strong healing power..

Good luck!

Löwenherz

83
General Discussion / Re: Can we do without vegetables/greens?
« on: October 25, 2012, 12:45:38 am »
Even if I had the opportunity to try a plant-free diet for several days (which I never had, even when traveling a few times around the planet) I would not try it, just as would not try an animal food free diet.

Sorry Iguana, that means that you have no personal experience, that you have never felt  the (amazing) effects of a keto adaptation process und that all your thoughts and opinions about plant-free diets are pure speculation based on your beliefs and nothing else.

Both would require the use of conceptual intelligence and of an ideology:

Not at all. Such choices could be based on personal experience. For example: Health problems from fructose and digestive trouble from harsh plant fiber.

animals as well as our far ancestors didn’t care whether a stuff is animal or vegetal, they would not even know where’s the difference.

Why do "instinctos" always believe that our ancestors have been intelligent like a piece of rock?

Löwenherz

84
General Discussion / Re: Can we do without vegetables/greens?
« on: October 25, 2012, 12:31:21 am »
No not heard of this fish, intresting!
You might be right about we needing some saturated fats extra I do not know really. I do eat some. I should do a test for myself for sure.

Yes, do it!  ;)
I'm eagerly awaiting your report. It's always a pleasure to learn more about real human nutrition, based on the gifts of nature.
I could never follow such a diet. After some days on seafood only I always get very strong cravings for red meat and the taste of fish becomes repulsive.

But I would not eat only mackerels / fatty fish then, but lots of oysters and shellfish! And seaweeds.

From my experience I would say that such a diet would be too high in protein and too low in fat (as long as it is carb free). And it might be difficult to meet our caloric needs.

What happend to the ones trying a mackerel-diet?

They became infertile, sperm count went down to zero, wound healing problems and other problems, can't remember exactly.

I am not thinking it is a good idea to eat only one sort of food at all.

I agree..
I would like to eat much more wild white meats, white fowl like pheasant etc., but it's becoming more and more rare, unfortunately.

Löwenherz

85
General Discussion / Re: What's Wrong With The Primal Diet and Paleo Diet
« on: October 24, 2012, 08:12:39 pm »
   http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1714023/
http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749%2806%2900651-8/abstract
Hmm, no information about atherosclerosis.

I would like to find out if raw saturated animals fats can cause atherosclerosis or not. The Masai had lots of atherosclerosis, according to some reports. Have they eaten raw fats or cooked fats? Who knows..

Löwenherz

86
General Discussion / Re: Can we do without vegetables/greens?
« on: October 24, 2012, 07:48:07 pm »
I actually believe we could live on seafood and algae only. I have not tried it but I am sure it would be great when looking at their nutrient profile.

Inger, don't we need saturated fats?

I think that it's only possible to live exclusively on food from the sea if we include sea mammals and other creatures who can supply us with more saturated fats. Some German scientists tried a mackerel zc diet. The results have been devastating after some weeks/months. Too many PUFAs, even from raw animal sources can be very problematic. Let me see if I can find these papers...

Have you heard of the super fatty candlefish? It's supposed to have a perfect fatty acid balance, much better than salmon or mackerel. Unfortunately, it's not available in Europe, as far as I know.

Löwenherz

87
General Discussion / Re: Can we do without vegetables/greens?
« on: October 24, 2012, 07:24:01 pm »
You're lucky to find such organs and fat for cheap. Isn't it because Anglo-Saxons never eat organs? Here, it's very difficult to find anything like that, except when we get a road killed badger or when a friend's hunt was successful.

In some parts of France you find more wild boars than in any other European country. Alsace and Lorraine for example. Just contact more hunters. Orkos is extremely overpriced.

What was the name of the American near Toulouse who sells grass-fed Salers beef? Even the leanest bull has lots of fat. Usually it's thrown away...

Löwenherz

88
General Discussion / Re: Can we do without vegetables/greens?
« on: October 24, 2012, 07:11:50 pm »
I eat broccoli stems too and (like most instinctos) some vegetables every evening,  in general after the meat or eggs or shellfish/fish. Even if tomatoes, cucumbers and red peppers are botanically fruits, they digest well with vegetables and can be considered as such. Pink sweet potatoes are tasty, for example.

Meat, fish and eggs are not always easily available in nature. In our modern world they are generally hard to find in the quality we need and are often rather expensive. I wonder how some of us can lastingly eat almost no plant food while being satisfied, keep a correct nutritional balance and... don't spend all their money on food!

At least in Europe, you would have to be rich to feed exclusively on raw animal food. Even if I had an unlimited bank account, I would be unable to do it because I need fruits, vegetables and nuts as well to be satisfied and remain in good health.


I still cannot understand how human beings can view raw broccoli as food.  ???

Iguana, have you ever tried a plant-free diet? Or do you just BELIEVE that you need fruits, vegetables and nuts?

When I visit national parks in Europe  I always see tons of animal food but no plant-food except herbs and some berries once in a year.

Löwenherz

89
General Discussion / Re: Can we do without vegetables/greens?
« on: October 24, 2012, 07:04:06 pm »
Animal foods provide all the nutrients a human needs.

Tyler, on a plant-free diet, how important are organ meats in your view or from your experience?

It has been suggested that plant foods can provide all the nutrients one needs provided that the veg is grown using manure and isn't washed thoroughly afterwards. Not sure if that's true, however.

That's part of a veganoid Wunschkonzert.

I still eat some raw veg( a little seaweed, radishes every so often, a bunch of carrots once a year, garlic bulbs once a year, that sort of thing).

And how much fruit do you eat nowadays?

Löwenherz

90
General Discussion / Re: What's Wrong With The Primal Diet and Paleo Diet
« on: October 24, 2012, 06:55:03 pm »
There are no studies done on raw meats, only  raw dairy, due to hysteria on the part of researchers. Like I said, though, there are dozens of studies showing that atherosclerosis is much reduced if  levels of heat-created toxins in the body are reduced. I don't think atherosclerosis can be completely gotten rid of as a result of a rawpalaeodiet, but much/most of it obviously can be.

And what was the result of the study done on raw dairy?

Löwenherz

91
General Discussion / Re: What's Wrong With The Primal Diet and Paleo Diet
« on: October 14, 2012, 03:43:09 pm »
The link made between atherosclerosis and excess meat consumption again ignores that all such studies focus on cooked animal foods. In fact there are now countless studies focusing on the harm done by heat-created toxins derived from cooked foods(such as advanced glycation end products) and their direct link to the incidence of atherosclerosis:-

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/25/10/2157.short

Similiarly, when the levels of heat-created toxins are reduced, the symptoms of atherosclerosis are reduced, indicating that raw-meat diets, but not cooked diets, are great for RELIEVING atherosclerosis, not increasing it at all:-
Many low carb researchers and doctors believe that atherosclerosis is part of a 'normal' aging process on a high fat diet. Gary Taubes reported that even the Masai have a lot of atherosclerosis but no symptoms at all. Have they eaten the meat and fat raw? There are also reports of massive atherosclerosis in Eskimos and Mongols eating their traditional high animal fat diet low in carbs.

Is there any evidence that only cooked animal foods high in fat cause atherosclerosis and raw animal fats don't?

It would be nice to know that raw animal fats don't cause atherosclerosis.

Tyler, do have some convincing papers?

Löwenherz

92
Journals / Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« on: October 14, 2012, 03:23:47 pm »
Do worms really taste good??

93
Journals / Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« on: October 13, 2012, 02:15:58 am »
Geoff,

have you posted the results of your blood tests anywhere?

Löwenherz

94
Journals / Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« on: October 13, 2012, 02:13:58 am »
I might consider buying worms for food.

Why?

Aren't commercially available worms and insects usually fed with all kinds of unhealthy stuff?

Löwenherz

95
Off Topic / Re: Worrying trend
« on: October 13, 2012, 02:07:15 am »
I live in an urban environment. Cows are too massive to handle, can't easily stuff a whole carcass into the freezer etc.. I suppose pigs, chickens, goats, ducks etc. might be an option, but that means leaving the urban cesspit.  How much money does one first need to build up a (European) farm big enough to completely support 1 person all year round thereafter? What would be the year-round costs in veterinary fees or whatever?  Answers in pounds/euros please.

I would say 4-5 hectares per person of green pasture with enough precipitation should be sufficient for self-subsistance on a raw paleo diet based on animal foods.

I can give you some numbers for Germany:

The current prices for grassland lie between 10.000 EUR (Thuringia for example) and 24.000 EUR (North Rine-Westphalia).

+ costs for fences
+ costs for building plots
+ costs for construction
+ costs for veterinary (very low)
+ costs for insurances
+ costs for butchering

etc.

Löwenherz

PS: Leasing land makes more sense. Prices lie between 60,- EUR and 320,- EUR per hectare grassland.

96
Hot Topics / Re: cooked food history
« on: October 08, 2012, 11:32:53 pm »
One notion is that cooking allowed more foods to be eaten which could not be eaten raw, though this advantage was clearly more used in the Neolithic era, long after cooking was invented.

And the current result is a population of 7 billion ill people who are dependant on cooked junk plus pharmaceutical drugs.

What a drama!

Löwenherz

97
Welcoming Committee / Re: Aura
« on: October 08, 2012, 11:26:02 pm »
Thanks, but no, not at all: GCB, 3 of his children and Jean-Daniel D are the Nr. 1 as they were the pioneers in the 60's and have been on raw paleo ever since.

Jean-Daniel's wife and several others in Switzerland and later in France also started well before me and are still eating "instincto".   

Do you know other long-term raw paleo members here?

Tyler? PP? How many years are you now eating raw paleo?

Löwenherz

98
General Discussion / Re: New approach
« on: October 08, 2012, 11:19:22 pm »
Do pine nuts last a long time after falling? Or do they get eaten up  quickly despite being in the cone?

They quickly mutate into aggressive aliens and kill all your neighbours in a bloody slaughter party before they construct a spaceship out of the remaining skulls to fly back to their mothership.

I don't know why they do this. I guess it's the high w6 and high PUFA content.

Löwenherz

99
General Discussion / Re: New approach
« on: October 08, 2012, 11:13:44 pm »
can you guys wrap your heads around the idea that paleolithic diets were not completely ideal, and perhaps their health wasnt either? but maybe more ideal was the way they lived their life in a more natural way, with less social and environmental stress and more time to enjoy simple pleasures?  can you imagine that perhaps they ate sub optimal foods like nuts every once in a while simply to feel full and to have any kind of nutrients?  all of this arguing is just as theoretical as anything, and what does it matter?......we will never know, and even with science breaking down every molecule of foods and labs telling us ever reaction in our body, these are all just piece and parts of a puzzle, nothing about this is concrete...maybe it is our luxury now to find time to sort through data that helps to validate our own best guess of what is more paleo or not and also more in accordance to how we choose nourish ourselves, but to me its like spinning tires or chasing ones own tail

I fully agree with you, Jessica.  ;)

Löwenherz

100
General Discussion / Re: ... devilish "healthy" omega 6 fats, facts
« on: October 08, 2012, 11:10:10 pm »
I agree that nut/fruit fats are probably not as optimal as animal fats, but you're painting an excessively negative picture that isn't supported by the evidence.

Hi PP,

I see a lot of evidence that high amounts of w6 rich plant fats are detrimental to our health. And you don't convince me that nuts give us any important nutrient that we can't get from animal food and vegetables. My own experience is that all plant fats with the exception of fresh raw coconut milk are very bad for my body, brain and cognitive function. Beside this, since 1999 I have seen a lot of other rawfoodists who tried a diet HIGH in plant fats after they realized that high carb in the form of high fruit consumption damages their bodies in the long-run and makes them aging faster than any other diet. Not one of them was successful, really. They all failed miserably, including myself. Some of them became very depressive and got very concrete suicidal thoughts. I forced one of my friends, who was very desperated, to eat a lot of fresh seafood (high in w3 and dha) everyday and to throw away all plant fats. After some days he felt much better, more vital and optimistic. It's no joke. Again, I'm not talking about a handful of nuts every now and then. It's the same with one cigarette every now and then.

More than small amounts of nuts cause digestive trouble in most people. Seldom can anyone eat more than 100 grams of nuts per day without getting steatorrhea in the next days. That is only one of many arguments against nuts. In my view it's already enough to classify them as "undesireable". But no question, some nuts are very tasty. So many things are tasty, right?

I know that some bushmen eat nuts. They do this out of desperation. They are living in extreme scarcity, not seldom in very aride zones. No rainfall, no green pastures, no animal fats. And these nut eating bushmen are everything else than posterboys for human health, longevity or inventiveness. Furthermore they most often cook the nuts to make them more digestible. Cooking PUFAs is definetely a very bad idea, regarding optimal health. People in countries like Nigeria in which w6 rich palm oil is the major source of fat in human nutrition have the lowest life expectancy in the world. Coincidence? Perhaps. Masai tribesmen who live on animal fats are much taller, stronger and most probably much more intelligent than their plant fat eating colleagues.

There is overwhelming scientific evidence that a high omega 6 consumption and the resulting imbalances cause a huge number of human illnesses. This is not the case in apes and squirrels. Their brains, for example, are not dependant on a high w3 fatty acid supply. For us, seafood, fats and organs from wild and/or grassfed animals are really brain boosters, nuts are not. I have no doubt that the nuts in your health food store are as unhealthy as all other health foods like tofu, agave nectar and rice crackers.

Löwenherz

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