Yep - bugs, blood, raw meat, raw milk, raw eggs - all taboo in our society. How on earth did it happen?

Thank y'all so much for your experiences with allergies!

I can't help but to wonder if I can do well on most whole food diets simply because I don't have food allergies. (Or maybe allergies just to the chemicals in non-whole foods?) So many diets could be effective just because of what people cut out of their diet that is bad for them specifically I would venture to guess - perhaps more than the benefit of what they are actually eating.

Hubbie is so allergic generally that I'm sure he has lots of food allergies. Probably it would be a good thing to get him tested. How are these tests done? Would you mind educating me some on this please???

Ohhhhh. Just numbers. Then your stars just stopped being so scary!    Now I know that I don't really have to trap or hunt anything.

Thanks Zi.

Is there some place where there's a list of what the color of the stars and the labels that are above members names mean?

I'm very sad that I am no longer an egg thief, because that label described me the best. When I get to shaman could I just stop there? I mean, I'm not much of hunter. Forager, egg thief, gatherer or a fisherwoman maybe but keep me away from being a mammoth hunter please - sounds way too scary. But - if I eventually get to shaman could I just stop there? That fits me almost as well as egg thief. I'm not much for being a chief any time in the future either because they are often the first to die or be killed in a skirmish. 

Of course this is all great fun - but I do get the sense that those stars and labels are supposed to mean something and tell me who's alpha and beta etc so that I can properly roll over and show how submissive I am so I don't get hurt. If there's no place where all the roles and colors are listed in hierarchial order, would someone like to make such a list so that all us low down on the totem pole can socially negotiate more safely the structure of the tribe?

Deep thanks to the elders and leaders for your guidance. 

Co - the best thing is to agree - because meat the way it is generally raised in this country and cooked IS bad for you. That's the best way to start. By agreeing.

Then educate them about how cows are fed soy and grains which make them grow all sorts of nasty bacteria that isn't natural to them and shot up with hormones and antibiotics so that they can be genetically mutated until they can barely live and then put onto feed lots where they live a horrible existence and then the meat has to be cooked just so that it doesn't kill us. This will open them up, because a vegetarian will be nodding their head up and down now.

Then talk to them about grass-fed animals, what a good life healthy life they lead and how they live and die. Tell them there ARE no studies of eating these kind of animals or especially eating them the way that our ancestors did and thrived on for millions of years - raw and natural. Tell them that they are right and that until people wise up and eat meat the way it CAN be healthy, that they shouldn't be eating it at all.

And then slip in that they also shouldn't be eating irradiated, pesticide ridden, cooked vegetables either.

That ought to give your friend something to think about. 

Nice! Thanks Phil. Have you re-introduced any of that list one at a time to see if eating them made your seasonal allergies start up again by any chance?

Thank you Dan. 

I have had to stop eating meat other than fish with my husband as of now because he wants to go more slowly and continue to cook his meats less and less over time and have me get him better meats instead of jumping right into raw meats. Having been a raw foodist for so long I find that eating of the meat cooked has had a some negative affects on me that I can't afford right now. When he gets to the point where he feels comfortable eating all raw I will try it again with him. I have gotten him used to raw eggs and dairy and fish over the course of the last year - so there is a foundation and trust. He's getting used to the idea slowly in his own way.

I wanted to ask you about your allergies Dan. What kinds of allergies do you have? My husband suffers horribly from allergies and if I could find others who have been helped with allergies to pollens and such that would help me a great deal in making this whole thing more appealing to him. I have gotten him raw local honey - but it doesn't help all that much.

Ah yes Phil, we have discussed the slowing down of bacteria before. I'm still in the process of reading both authors. I do believe that Fallon does say in her book that freezing kills the bacteria though - which is either a mistake on my part or her part.

How you stated it is much more concise. She still incorporates the foods of the agricultural revolution, but uses techniques to make them as good as they can be with soaking and fermentation and the like. When I say Fallon takes bacteria more seriously - that was probably not the way to express my idea. I mean she takes people's deep fear of bacteria seriously. Fallon seems to me to give folks like me and my husband a way to side step and slide their way into starting to eat raw animal foods in ways that comply more with our brain-washing. If you use whey or lime/lemon, good bacteria or freezing it gives the sense of eradicating the danger of bad bacteria that is so ingrained in us about raw meat. She talks nothing so far about getting the body used to bad bacterias slowly to make the body more flexible and adaptable and stronger like AV does. But the Weston A. Price folks did get me used to raw milk being very safe and got us to try raw meats without which we might never have been willing to make the jump to AV's ideas. It's such a big jump when your entire life you have been told continually that eating raw dairy and meats was one of the most dangerous things you could do!

Fallon to me is a great stepping stone. It's a little bit like going back through time in increments instead of one big jump back to the paleolithic. It's more manageable and familiar to the way most people eat. First cut out the worst offenders she says. I mean - for so many just cutting out coke and processed sugar can have such wonderful affects. AV takes it even a step further and still incorporates raw milk, but not the grains etc. and no cooking like Fallon. He takes another big jump backwards in time.

But, what you say about paleo going all the way back to the time of how we have evolved to eat over millions of years instead of only since agriculture - that pretty much is the ace in the hole. I really like that way of thinking about it. 

Eating raw food and meat and having a good physique and the like, although good things, do not make one into an alpha. If you know dogs you know this. Sometimes the tiniest weakest looking dog will the be the alpha and alphas are not aggressive. They are calm and assertive. They walk into the room and you feel their energy. When you meet an alpha you feel calm, like they have things under control, like there is someone you know you can depend on present. They rarely have to growl, bark, yell, fight - usually they don't even make a sound or do anything and you know. The dogs that are aggressive are the ones that are forced into an alpha role when they are not innately meant for it, the same goes for humans.

Granted, if you are sick and unable to stand up straight and put forth who you are innately inside, that will get in the way.

Another thing is, just because you are exposed to an idea, doesn't necessarily mean that you have the inner strength and ability to follow what you know is right when it is against what everyone in society is telling you is right or - just what everyone else wants to do - especially when it comes to something as addicting and as social as food is. In a sense, you would need to be a leader just to be willing to stand that far out of the crowd at a time of life when fitting in feels so important to so many. Humans are very tribal. We live and work in groups and it is very important for one person not to challenge the tribe too much or we could end up on our own in the wilderness. There is safety in numbers so it is not an easy thing to go against your entire tribe - no matter how strongly you feel what you are doing is right for you. Most people only get into eating a natural diet because they are really sick and feel like they have no choice.

So, if you could do this at an early age not because you were sick it would mean most likely that you were already an alpha or had parents that were strong alphas. What very lucky children those are. They would feel truly safe and cared for and get real nutrition to become whoever they are - whether alpha or not. Every member of the group is important.

Alphas btw in wolf packs tend to die the youngest. They have so much responsibility. Be careful what you wish for.

I was the only person I had met that was into eating raw foods for the last 30 years before just recently and did it because it made sense and felt right to me. I did not care if I fit in. I did not do drugs when every single other person in my high school did. In our society, the alphas are not necessarily the ones who really know, have things straight, are the most in touch or are worth listening to.....sadly. There was no place for a shaman in the tribe where I grew up. A shaman is someone who listens deeply to their inner voice no matter what anyone says and has healing powers because of it. A shaman will go the way they are guided from the inside even if they have to go it totally on their own, because it is harder for a shaman to ignore the inner calling than the calling of the tribe. 

If it makes any difference though my diet has allowed me to be more naturally who I am so I have achieved every goal I had for myself in this lifetime quite a while back and I made some outrageous goals for myself very early on. I'm making some new goals now, but they are the just for fun kind, not the life-purpose ones.

If you are 16 and find your natural diet and know it is what will make you strong - my suggestion would be NOT to try to be an alpha - but use it to allow the power of who you really are shine through. Whether or not you are an alpha it will be so much easier if you can convince or find others to also eat in ways that are healthy. If you are an alpha you can lead people into it effortlessly as they will just want to follow you naturally. If you are not an alpha or a shaman the good thing is that there is now the internet where you can find an alpha to guide you. Alpha does not mean better or more important - just a different role. The alpha role is very stressful and unnatural and bad for those that are not alphas to force on themselves.

If we all were raised more naturally so we didn't have to be an alpha or beta that wishes to fight to be alpha or a weirdo shaman or really sick to make us want to eat raw food against all the forces of our tribe/society, my guess is that all that would happen is that we would be subject to the other influences of our tribe instead - but perhaps also able to be more in touch with our innate proclivities.

Ours is one of the first societies where individualism is an attribute that is honored and appreciated. Eating a paleo diet in modern society.... these could be very interesting times ahead indeed.

Asking the farmer straight out is the best way to know Phil. Because I've done this enough and know the difference in how I feel when eating the unheated cheese and the stuff that is labeled raw but really not - I can tell if a cheese is actually raw after eating it for a little while. If it's not raw I don't feel so great - when it is raw I feel fine. The hubbie's nose is a good indicator too. He's lactose intolerant and if he eats heated cheese I can HEAR that it isn't raw. 

If you are getting the cheeses from a farmer - ask them if they use any heat at all in the making of their cheese. It's not necessary.

Here is one opinion:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/irrad/irradfact.cfm

I get raw whole milk from grass-fed jersey cows and I make it into quark. Do you know how to do that? It's basically allowing the milk to ferment. I can talk you through it.

I take pecans that I soak and dehydrate but you can either just soak or use raw if you don't mind the enzyme inhibitors and anti-nutrients etc. I grind up the pecans with dates into a mash. You can use a food processor, a champion juicer, a high speed blender or a big mortar and pistil to do this. This will make the crust. You put this on a pie plate or a deep dish or a shallow bowl, or my favorite - individual tiny bowls........thinly or thickly according to your taste and how much nuts and dates you want to eat. I like to put this in my dehydrator for a bit - but it's not necessary.

Then in my blender or food processor I put the quark with any fruit you like. I've used persimmons, mangoes, blueberries - whatever floats your boat. They all taste wonderful to me. You can add honey to the mix if the fruit is not sweet enough for you. I make it thinner with whey from my quark making - but that makes it a bit more on the bitter side - or you can use water. But don't make it too thin of course. It has to be thick and creamy.

I have as of yet not found a good agent for thickening, but I haven't experimented much I'm afraid. I tried flax seeds but they ruined the taste. What I do instead is put the pie into the freezer and let it defrost to exactly the right density and creaminess. This is why I like to make them in tiny individual bowls. Not the best solution, but they do taste amazing. I have yet to make one of these kinds of pies with any fruit that did not work.

I have yet to try adding raw egg yolks to the mix but plan on doing this the next time I make pie. I'm also going to do some more experimenting with natural congealing substances. I'll keep you posted on what works and what doesn't work. But at least this way we can get at least get some cheesecake!

Those vegan ones made with cashews always make me feel really sick. These make me feel amazingly good. 

I'm glad you're here KD or I might feel very lonely not being interested in roughing it in the wild.