how about shellfish, small finfish, seaweed, snail, frog, small bird, egg...?

Good point. However, Palaeolithic evidence indicates that, in most areas, either medium-sized or larger prey were consumed(eg:- equines(horses), bovines(aurochs) etc.) Searching for very small prey during those times when traps hadn't been invented yet, would require too much energy re hunting and too little return in terms of raw flesh obtained(eg:- frogs' legs), plus eggs are usually laid by wild birds only seasonally and usually in relatively inaccessible places such as trees or cliff-faces etc.

Shellfish/seaweed is another issue. Some people claim that shellfish was only initially consumed in relatively recent times(20,000 years ago), others claim 300,000 years ago or more. But, regardless, shellfish would only be relevant to those tribes right next to  coastal areas.

Deep-sea fish would definitely only have been consumed much later on when humans developed boats etc. Not sure re river-fish.

I don't deny that the above could have been a part of a Palaeo diet, but they would have been a more minor part than aurochs-flesh etc.

"Avoid pork as much as possible. Due to stupid myths re pigs being dirty and eating garbage(they're actually very clean when not shoved into disgusting battery-farms by humans), pigs are reputedly fed on grain-diets, according to government regulations. There are pasture-fed pigs in the USA, but I'd be surprised to find any here, except on very small farms."

the way i look at it, the appropriateness of the food is relative to the species

birds, for instance, are seed eaters; so to feed corn & soy to chicken would be ok or not too off -- but, of course, birds also like & need worms, bugs, dirt if/when living in their natural habitat

ruminants (cattle, sheep, goats, deer, camels, etc.) are mostly herbivores, whether grazers (cow, lamb) or browsers (goat, deer, camel); of course they also enjoy the occasional bug or dirt if/when living in their natural habitat
the ruminant digestive system is neither meant or adapted to eating grains such as corn, soy, wheat, barley or to eating such concoctions as blood meal, urea, antibiotics, chewing gum, chicken feathers, etc.

now, unlike ruminants, pigs are omnivores
in other words, the pig digestive system is meant & adapted to deal with grass, grains, bugs, roots, mud, stool, truffles... even their own offspring in extreme cases of desperation: they are naturally equipped with whatever it takes to digest all those things & thereby grow & maintain healthy bodies -- if/when living in their natural habitat, that is
also, unlike ruminants again, pigs do not have multiple stomachs containing anaerobic microorganisms that hydrogenate (saturate) naturally unsaturated fats (mufa & pufa)
also, pigs are supposed to be more intelligent than cows & sheep; they even have some sort of language

Yes, pigs are the most intelligent of domesticated animals(more intelligent than dogs, incidentally).

However, the problem is that both jungle fowl and feral pigs/wild-boar in the wild have far more varied diets than the (usually) 100% grain diets that domesticated chickens and pigs  invariably get from farmers. Wild boar-meat, as a result of the boars eating insects,roots, tubers and small mammals/reptiles, has a far better taste than pork from domesticated pigs - I say this from past experience. Never tasted raw jungle fowl, but I have eaten raw wild mallard duck and, again, the taste is far superior to the meat from domesticated free-range Aylesbury ducks. All these extra foods in the diet of these animals  add micronutrients which make all the difference re health.

Page 337:

After, bathing, daily massaging coconut oil, peanut oil or olive oil into the thighs, buttocks, hips, abdomen and breasts, reduces or eliminates the formation of stretch marks.  Wipe off excess after after 15-20 minutes. 

Thanks a lot. Now can anyone give me Aajonus' skin-formula on page 145 of The Recipe For Living Without Disease? I've been told that it's also useful for this condition. Cheers.

You know you're an RPDer when...

1. You have lots of blood stains on your clothes
2. You started eating your food naked so you wouldn't get any more blood stains!
3. Neighbors continually complain about the smell of rotting meat
4. You've used acronyms like SAD or RAF in normal conversation.
5. Those bugs that most people scream at or try to kill look more and more like a tasty meal each day.


This list is meant to be humorous! Please contribute if you can think of any!

Good first start!

You know you're an RPDer when:-

You start referring to those who eat cooked-food diets as "cooked-foodists"

(Well I did at the start, because I couldn't think of an appropriate term for people doing such diets and because we're always referred to as "raw-foodists"- now I just use "SAD-eater").

You know you're an RPDer when:-

non-rawist acquaintances  start beseeching you to leave "this dangerous cult".

I eat:-  (all raw) wildcaught oysters(in large amounts), wild mallard duck,wild hare carcasses(very regularly), raw mussels, scallops, live lobster/live crab(well I kill them after purchase), swordfish, free-range turkey breast-fillets, organ-meats(tongue, liver, kidney, heart, suet, marrow) from lamb and beef, mainly. Also I get other muscle-meats in the form of leg of lamb(mutton is much fattier and much better, IMO, as well as cheaper than lamb), venison(when in season), grassfed horsemeat(while abroad in Italy, you can't get hold of it in the UK, except cooked in a few restaurants, imported from abroad).


Re fruits:- I do far better on berries than on other fruits, primarily blueberries and rapsberries. I go for strawberries but have to limit consumption as they are too high in sugar. I also go in for cherries, and watermelon when I'm in Italy. Fruits are either organic or from farmers' markets where they are as good as organic, in my view, re taste. I limit fruit-consumption, but eat more of it if quality meats are unavailable.

Re eggs/honey/dairy:- Have avoided dairy for years, limit eggs and honey(I only eat heather honeycomb as liquid honey gives me a very nasty reaction, and only honeycomb is gauranteed raw in the UK(unless it's in a bottle with liquid honey).

Re brix:- I've become more interested in brix, in recent times. Unfortunately, there's so little brix-related info on the web, and almost nothing UK-related. I compromise by going in for wild meats/wildcaught seafood as much as possible as I know that these are of high quality.

Re Slankers':- I talked about this grassfed issue with the London Farmers' Market Organisers via e-mail, and they seemed to be of the opinion that organic producers don't feed their cattle with anywhere near as much grain as the non-grassfeeding farmers in the US, so that it didn't matter. What a stupid notion! As a result, many farmers "finish" their cattle on barley and soy. Fortunately, they are so stupidly proud of this fact that they reveal this pretty quickly when I ask re what the animals are fed on, at which point I usually say "sorry, I want 100% grassfed", only. Sheep(lamb/mutton) are the only ones that are guaranteed to either be mostly or wholly-grassfed.


Re yahoo group:- Yes, I'm Geoff, and you must be Michael Fitzgerald? I'm having similiar problems, though the LFM markets allow me to get round some issues. I've mentioned on the rawpaleodiet yahoo group, how more and more UK farmers aren't bothering to sell organ-meats - one or two, after others lied  to me about the abattoirs forcibly throwing away the organ-meats,  finally admitted to me that they now, legally, have to be inspected by an expensive EU-sponsored vetting agency, in order to comply with EU regulations, plus they still have to pay the government inspectors to check their meats as well, so, since they have to pay per hour, they don't bother having the organ-meats inspected, and just  sell the muscle-meats, throwing the organs away - this is because there's not much public demand for organ-meats as they're thought to taste "yucky" by Standard(cooked-) Dieters.

My suggestions are the following:- get hold of very fatty 100% grassfed meats like mutton(it's seasonal, so get lamb outside that period), find wild game but try to get it cheap(farmers are the most frequent hunters). I take it that farmers' markets are either useless or nonexistent in your area?

Avoid pork as much as possible. Due to stupid myths re pigs being dirty and eating garbage(they're actually very clean when not shoved into disgusting battery-farms by humans), pigs are reputedly fed on grain-diets, according to government regulations. There are pasture-fed pigs in the USA, but I'd be surprised to find any here, except on very small farms.

You could also look into alternatives such as saltmarsh-fed lamb/saltmarsh-fed cattle/heather-fed lamb etc. They're expensive, often originating from farms  in Scotland or Wales, but these will be superior to most so-called grassfed meats sold in the UK.

Re adrenals/thyroid:- I tried for years to get hold of them, with no luck. When I asked my farmers to inquire at the abattoir, they mentioned that the abattoir-people just moronically laughed off the demand as a joke. I finally settled for Dr Ron's hugely expensive supplements which are one of the few which seem to be minus trans-fats/preservatives like magnesium-stearate:-

http://www.drrons.com/


Another poster has suggested this site as being comparable:-

http://www.tahomadispensary.com/istar.asp?a=6&id=1139!91

Re organ-meats in general other than the above glands:- I'm afraid you'll just have to keep searching on Google. Like you said, most truly reliable grassfed meat suppliers stick to muscle-meats.

I used to get my grassfed suet/marrow(in quite large amounts) from Lower Hurst Farm:-
http://www.lowerhurstfarm.co.uk/lower_hurst_farm_shop.htm

 I think(?) I annoyed them as I was their only customer and didn't order the suet/marrow regularly enough, so they claimed to only deliver locally, after delivering them for some time. You might have better luck(don't mention my name!) - on the other hand, they may have been telling the truth. One warning, while this doesn't apply to Lower Hurst, most suet sold in the UK, even from grassfed animals, will come from kidney-fat, which is the fat with the least amount of omega-3 fatty-acids.  Yellow, omega-3-rich hide-fat is very difficult to find as EU regulations force UK grassfed farmers to slaughter their cattle after 30 months, which isn't enough time for grassfed cattle to build up sufficient fats(only grainfed cattle can easily build that much fat in that time, which is another reason for banning all such EU regulation). Marrow might be a better option(if you check with prey-model UK-based groups, you should be able to find some raw organ-meats for dogs that is of good enough quality for human consumption(dogs have to be fed organs on prey model diets) - people like Lex in the US go in for such alternatives as the quality is just as good and is so cheap.

Here are some UK organic food directories which might be useful(I think you're already a member of rawpaleodiet, so you just have to be signed into Yahoo groups to read this):-

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawpaleodiet/links/Sources_of_Organic_M_001141424689/

I'm afraid my current source of marrow/suet is so limited, even for me as an individual, that I can't divulge the source, as then I would get nothing!

*I've heard that a very good-quality 100% grassfed source is "Wild Beef". They appear in Borough Market. I hope that this is the right website - they may sell organs such as suet/marrow:-
http://www.meatdartmoor.co.uk/wild_beef.htm

The key thing re 100% grassfed meat is to search every conceivable website(especially in less urban  areas such as scotland and wales) and look for any details re the animals being kept outdoors all year round. That's about the only guarantee one can have re 100% grassfed, as it's quite common for some farmers to lie if they realise that 100% grassfed is what you're looking for.


*Don't bother with the Weston-Price chapter in the UK. I enquired there, and the guy had no clue re grassfed meats and only knew a bit about how to find raw dairy - useless by comparison to the WAPF chapters in the USA.*

Re Candida:- That's a tough condition to have. I'd suggest finding info from those on this forum who've had Candida. It's very difficult to get rid of and takes years.

The trouble with raw dairy is that feeding the cattle grains stimulates the cows re extra milk production, so it's a major incentive to the farmer to do so. I've also heard about one scandal where Sally Fallon and the WAPF leadership protected 1 raw-dairy-farmer from accusations from lay-members that his dairy-producing cattle were actually partially-grainfed.

I've heard that the Amish in Pennsylvania are 100% reliable.

I had the tiniest hint of a headache for a very short time a little while after my glasses broke and I was unable to wear them. Really, it was nothing. However, today I've felt very tired and worn out, and my eyes feel heavy. It's not like me to feel tired... mostly since going raw paleo I've been all energy.

I avoided wearing glasses like the plague because every time I took them off, my eyes would feel so damned tired that I couldn't function - the longer I wore them at a time, the worse this effect was. I realised, as a result, that all those stories re wearing glasses weakening one's eyesight was absolutely true, so I only keep my glasses for the occasional medical test that's required.

I've heard only good reports re the quality of NorthStar Bison's grassfed bison. It's only US Wellness Meats that has a bad rep, judging from USers reports.

Tyler, do you eat the shell and and all when you eat lobster?  The fisrt and only time I ever ate lobster, I ate the meat and the shell.  It was raw but it had a strange sauce on it.  About 5 min. after I ate the shell and meat, my throat swelled up a lot and I could hardly breath for the remainder of the night.  I laid down and somehow feel asleep.  The next day I was fine again but very fearful of eating any kind of lobster.  I wonder was it the shell or the sauce??

No I never eat the shell.

Sorry, I don't think I could ever not feed myself if I'm hungry on purpose.  That would totally go against my theme of being natural.  I don't believe in fasting.

Judging from recent scientific reports, you'll live longer on IF than if you just eat to your heart's content.

So, basically eating any raw meat is ok. (i.e. from the supermarket) :

You know, I've heard about how bad cooking is for us but really it all boils down to adaptation.  I'm not sure but I don't think it would be recommended for someone who travels frequently to consume raw meat when in different countries.  If all the propoganda about eating raw meat and the dangers associated with it are basically the same thing everywhere (i.e. different coutries as well) then I could be wrong here.  This is why I question specifically the ability to consume raw meat from anywhere like supermarkets, etc.

If raw meat period is ok, then I'm going to encourage others here (Hawai'i) to just try and eat any raw meat.  I thought meat that had flies, maggots, on it couldn't be consumed but it can along with the creepies (protein).   I see no need in jumping through the extra hoops to get "better meat".  (I can't justify it to my friends either)  They follow my lead.  If I eat it and live then they will try it accordingly.

Grainfed meat is NOT OK. I only gave Lex's example re not being able to find grassfed meats as a short-term possibility while finding better sources. Low-quality cod-liver oil is largely useless as a supplement, IMO. Just get grassfed meat, if you can't afford it(unlikely), just go in for Intermittent Fasting.

Any guidance would be appreciated:

Symptoms:
Fatigue (especially after eating sugar or a SAD meal)
Dermatitis (can be controlled or near eliminated with green juice fasting, exercise, etc)
Acne (sugar related, I tried milk fasting and I know it did a lot of good, but the sugar and fat was definitely an issue)
Oily skin
Sweat (my face and body sweat a lot)
Poor digestion with most everything other than lots of fruit
Born with slight case of jaundice
Dark circles under eyes
When eating most foods (not meat) my throat will create a lot of mucous that I have to spit out.  I can only assume this is auto-immune and it’s my body saying this is no good.
I believe I have a leaky gut and candida overgrowth with weak organs all around.

I can only assume that my kidneys, lymph, liver and intestines are in bad shape.  I feel that dairy is probably a big no-no for me and I just found about suet as a desired fat.  I am seeking dietary suggestions that you would recommend for a system that is obviously in a bit of trouble.

Maybe just ground beef, suet and organ meats.  I want to give this diet a full run, but I know that one mistake could possibly flare up one of my symptoms and that could drive me to another diet.  Thank you in advance for your time.  I am looking for a diet, not a fasting “cure”.

Yes, this sounds similiar to  the symptoms I experienced. I had various glandular-related problems(basically adrenal burnout and hypothyroidism, I reckon, given the symptoms). I had problems with excessive sweating, dark circles under the eyes, completely bloodshot eyes due to an allergy towards dairy, and an inability to digest any (cooked) animal food - I would get extremely painful  stomach-aches after eating any cooked animal food.

Part of the problem is that processed/cooked diets foul up the glands more than any other part of the body(according to Aajonus, and I tend to agree). I would suggest that you either buy raw adrenals or raw thyroid(well freeze-dried/powdered not raw) from Dr Ron's (very expensive) website:-

http://www.drrons.com/

or buy them from at a cheaper rate from  a 100% grassfed farm like NorthStar Bison:-

http://www.northstarbison.com/

I would suggest trying a less extreme diet than zero-carb for now, as you're new to all this. You really have to know what you're doing when transitioning to zero-carb(too much or too little fat can be a hazard etc.) I would suggest, instead, starting with a raw version of the palaeolithic diet(somewhere between 0-35% carbs, unless you actually have candida where it should be close to 0%).


Lastly, I STRONGLY suggest that you keep at it, even if you do get side-effects. I, like many others, made some appalling mistakes, early on in the diet:- I consumed raw dairy from the 2nd to the 8th month on the RAF diet, which completely reversed the health-improvements I'd made pre-raw dairy, and caused utter misery. Then, 3 years into the diet, I tried raw veggie-juice and found that it went through my body diarrhea-wise, without being absorbed properly. Early on in the diet, I also found that my body couldn't handle raw vegetable-oils well, except in minute quantities etc. One needs to experiment a lot to get the diet that's right for the individual.