Author Topic: Vaccination  (Read 50602 times)

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Offline raw-al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2015, 03:40:41 am »
so the choice was always there to file a religious exemption, which was done easily.
The choice part has gone. If I want to visit someone in an old folks home I have to be vaccinated. If I want to work in certain businesses or in healthcare I have to be vaccinated.

This is a totalitarian state. It has nothing to do with the majority wanting it, it has to do with certain PPL with political power forcing it onto the masses who tend to believe everything the government says is correct and go along like sheep.
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2015, 04:31:08 am »
Nosophobia has a cure, just stop worrying and getting vaccinated.
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Offline dariorpl

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2015, 06:04:29 am »
I wasn't blaming you for taking vaccines yourself or giving them to your children in the past. I was asking the reasons why you now continue to believe that vaccines prevent disease (even if you think there are better ways to prevent disease)
We now live in a world where medicine destroys health, law destroys justice, education destroys knowledge, government destroys order, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and banking destroys the economy

Offline eveheart

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2015, 06:54:28 am »
...I was asking the reasons why you now continue to believe that vaccines prevent disease (even if you think there are better ways to prevent disease)

I don't understand the question. Of course vaccination does not "prevent" disease; it "works" when a dose of the disease triggers the development of acquired immunity. In other words, it "tricks" the body into mounting a defense for a specific pathogen. But maybe you didn't mean to say exactly that.

Are you implying that vaccination has been ineffective for its intended purpose, that it has no effect on the incidence of epidemiological outbreaks of diseases? I understand that the trade-off was getting a deliberate small dose that conferred immunity vs "catching" a full-blown case of that disease, and notice that I said trade-off: there are risks for each course.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2015, 11:27:15 am »
Eve,

There are now different points of views regarding the vaccine debate in the no-vaccine camp.

1) vaccines were ineffective to begin with... all the statistics were lies... the true cause of that particular disease was something else... the "theory" of vaccination is all false... all in the name of $$$.

2) vaccines were effective during THOSE OLD times... those diseases had been eradicated... no need for the vaccines now

3) the old single disease vaccines were better... the new combo vaccines are a disaster

4) you cannot trust the depopulationist imperialists TODAY with vaccines with all the over population hysteria... there are verified reports where the vaccines are LACED with infertility drugs, abortive drugs, poisons, metals that are not supposed to be in the original designs of the vaccines.  Something like vaccines of yesterday good... vaccines today you cannot trust the new manufacturers. 

There are verified reports some countries had to admit and stop their vaccination program because too many children were DYING due to the vaccine itself.  There are verified reports like in the Philippines and India where the depopulationists sent vaccines to kill unborn children in pregnant women and or make the women infertile.

There are reports of brand new vaccines every few years only to turn out to be scams... like the various flu vaccines... the papilloma virus crap, etc.

5) There is an overload of too many vaccines... compare 2015 list and the 1970 list... it's all insane.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 11:32:36 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline eveheart

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2015, 12:42:45 pm »
There are now different points of views regarding the vaccine debate in the no-vaccine camp.

Exactly! IMO, the ones who prit-near deny that the diseases even existed drown out the voice of rational objections.

I can't see the conspiracies where others see them: vaccinations don't work perfectly because nothing works perfectly. Vaccinations will be improved, changed, discarded. Let's just get on with whatever improvements our imaginations can create, which is all that's going to happen anyway.

And who made medicine so political? "We" did, every time we insisted that "somebody" do something about the diseases brought on by our own nutritional deficiencies.
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2015, 02:10:58 am »
Its difficult to know where to begin or end, regarding the subject. The lies of ommition, false narratives and preconceived notions run so deep that its difficult discuss the topic from a new perspective.

I think that instead of focusing on the old talking points narrowly defined by the media, we need to espouse the new scientific understanding of what the immune system is, what it does, and what it can do when it is functioning optimally. Let us drop knowledge bombs to obliterate the false modes of limited thinking and illuminate the new understanding of the true nature of the life sciences. For a long time the immune system has been viewed very narrowly by the pseudo science immunology, which focuses primarily on the role it plays in fending off invading microbes. Whats not really appreciated is that not only do our immune cells produce antibodies against invading microbes, but theses substances produced in response to other microbial toxins, have a mutagenic effect that alter genetic expression( on both the host and invader) These complex reactions between all life forms, which share this world,are way beyond the scope of our current scientific establishment to fully understand, let alone control .

The immune system is the diving force behind epigenetic changes that lead to evolutionary change. These integral relationships between the cells of our bodies and those of our microbial neighbors are constantly evolving. What may look like a disease causing virus may in fact be the means by which the biology of life reconciles environmental imbalances. When these processes are artificially suppressed or stimulated by means such as the injection of people with cross species genetically engineered viral DNA there is no way of knowing the totality of the effect. Sure you can have some scientific chart that shows that the prevalence of such and such diseases has dropped since the introduction of vaccination, but that in no way proves vaccination is responsible for a great improvement for the overall health of humanity. For all we know that 1 in 10,000 children vaccines saved from dying of measles, wont just get stricken with some other dread disease later in life. If vaccines were only to stimulate positive immune response then why are we seeing an epidemic rise in chronic immune dysfunction in vaccinated populations. We are now seeing epidemics of chronic viral infections such as SV40 ,Epstein Bar, and a plethora of unknown viral syndromes, that are not getting any attention by the establishment.

 Because we are no longer letting these viral re alignments occur naturally it is possible that we are just kicking the accumulated environmental imbalances down the road for the next generation to inherit. My parents and grandparents had measles and survived just fine, it may have even made them stronger. This new generation of people that are not allowed to undergo extreme viral detoxes may become more and more genetically damaged and out of sync with the environment. This generation may not ever get the measles but they may be more likely to have deformed immune deficient children who simply fail to thrive!

Look to nature and you will see that there isn't a single organism on this planet that hasn't been altered by Viral DNA or other mutagenic substances produced by pathogenic organisms. Viruses are ubiquitous and a necessary part of life, that doesn't mean that we need to go out and vaccinate all the plants and animals as well!

There are many people who share these sentiments( even if they cannot agree upon all the details) We are alive and awake! We realize that the truth is not going to be equitably disseminated to every man woman and child via injection by our compassionate guardians at Merck! There must be an alternative to following the mainstreams "prudent" course of vaccinating the world.

The danger facing us who resist is that we are living in a more and more artificially warped environmental system, where billions of humans are being genetically modified through vaccinations and altered foods. We are moving toward a world where a more and more drastic {cradle to grave} medical intervention model is becoming necessary for basic survival. If trends continue it will be impossible for future generations to survive and evolve in tune with the natural world as our ancestors had done. This is not the kind of world I want my kids to grow up in, and I refuse to participate in its construction.  For those who chose to opt out of the industrialization of our own personal biological beings, its becoming more and more impossible to not be effected by the process of unnatural selection. The entire ecosystem is becoming inundated with aberrant viral entities that may not working in harmony with the natural balance, and regardless of if you take the shots or eat the food, you will be exposed!

 Though it is hopeful that there are simple precautions that can be taken to protect oneself. Like not loading up on shots and drugs, or eating modified foods.....or better yet lets work on finding ways to nourish and strengthen our own immune system to its full potential.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 04:40:33 am by sabertooth »
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2015, 02:17:50 am »
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Offline raw-al

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Cheers
Al

Offline raw-al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2015, 03:57:30 am »
Cheers
Al

Offline raw-al

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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2015, 11:06:23 am »
Its seems that the media is launching a full onslaught against anyone who has doubts about vaccines. The airwaves are full of airheaded bimbos who know nothing of subject, except what they are told, spewing forth a one sided viewpoint that completely ignores any evidence contrary to their talking points.

This is an all out frontal assault against anyone who believes that they have the right to refuse forced medication. Exactly why this issue is being hyped now, is a topic for debate, there are a few conspiracies, and the whole truth may take some time to ferret out.

Regardless of what the motives or intentions behind this are.... I say what's going on stinks to high hell. Perhaps the latest campaign is  propaganda designed to set the subliminal stage for the population eventually giving the government the right to forcibly inoculate every man woman , child, and domestic animal at the whim of the Men behind the Curtain( These great wizards and warlocks that are called "scientist" by the "authorities") .

The mandatory insurance law has passed, and now "Government whores" in bed with "Big Pharma" have opened the floodgates of an unprecedented increase in the amount of drugs that are being prescribed to the American people, while at the same time doing nothing to correct the environmental conditions that have lead to an epic increase in degenerative disease. There is a medical dictatorship that has already taken control of the mainstream, and they are now coming after those who are still attempting to opt out of the madness( by coming for our children). If mandatory child vaccination laws are set in place, then there will follow more and more tyrannical laws, which would demand that parents forcibly medicate their children, with other drugs to treat whatever diagnosis the doctors conjure up, at the yearly mandated physical.

The talking (air)heads are pussyfooting around the issue, using their newspeak and pseudo scientific jargon to pull one over on the public without their true agenda entering into the discussion, but don't be fooled, when you hear someone say that in order to protect everyone's health "get your kids vaccinated", they are one step away from indorsing forced inoculation.

This fear mongering the public into accepting mandatory inoculation has happened before( during the swine flu scare of 76), and after the public learned of the fraud the idea of forced inoculations was rejected by an entire generation. The menace has returned and most people wont remember what happened over three decades ago, and now the mass media has been consolidated to the point where any evidence of the great fraud gets unilaterally deep-sixed, while the spin doctors can work on the manipulation of public opinion, with reckless abandon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8elE7Ct1jWw

We must learn from the "lesions" of history or be doomed to suffer a "repeat infection".
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 12:44:57 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2015, 07:29:00 am »
We must learn from the "lesions" of history or be doomed to suffer a "repeat infection".
Excellent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPOerVsvbtw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d40suCKnjbI
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Offline jessica

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2015, 10:40:54 am »
This is my favorite sentiment on the issue so far:

"Whether you're pro-vaccine, anti-vaccine, or fall somewhere in the middle, the questions you need to ask yourselves are as follows: Do you want to live in a world, where you cannot freely refuse a medical procedure that carries risk of injury or death?

I'm not questioning your comfort level with today's vaccine schedule, because today's vaccine schedule will change. New vaccines and additional doses are added all the time. Children today receive as many as 49 doses of 14 vaccines before they reach age six, which is roughly 12 times higher than the number of vaccines administered to children back in 1940.

With more than 220 new vaccines in the developmental pipeline for children and adults...and no end in sight..the question you must ask yourself is ARE YOU CERTAIN you will be 100% comfortable when 200 more vaccines are added to the mandated list in the future?

If you say that yes, you're comfortable, then you're either:     
     a) not expecting to be a parent or grandparent,
     b) don't think about it much because your kids are grown and out of the house, or
     c) lying to prove a point.

No critical thinker, no honest person, would ever sign off on the sight-unseen vaccine schedule of the future. And yet that's what you're doing when you condemn the people who are fighting for your right to refuse. YOU have the right to refuse, should you ever choose to use it, because the very "anti-vaccine" people you demonize have been fighting for us all.

Right now, the burden of "herd immunity" falls on small children, but that is changing. Vaccine manufacturers see an untapped market in adolescent and adult vaccine. They are coming for you next. What will you do if your state, your employer, or your insurance company forces you to get a vaccine that you simply don't want. It hasn't happened to you yet, but if the right to refuse is eroded, it will happen to you sooner than you might think. Who will you turn to? Your legislators who get campaign donations from pharmaceutical companies? The CDC that has former pharma executives sitting on the board? Who will you turn to if you ever want to say no?

What if it harms you, even kills you or your family member? There will be no recourse. No one to blame. You absorb all the medical bills. Deal with all the anger, all the guilt. Alone.

Once we enter the slippery slope of removing and individual's right to refuse medical procedures that carry a risk of injury or death, once we remove an individual's right to speak for him/herself and his/her children, we open ourselves up to an insidious new era, where other drugs and other procedures can be mandated.

I heard (on NPR, interestingly enough) that there are people who want to test for a gene marker that's been found in mass shooters in the hopes that they can put the carriers of that gene on medications in early childhood. Sounds great, right? But many of us carry genes that will never be expressed. You could be a carrier of that gene. Or your child could be a carrier.

So if we follow the "for the greater good" mentality behind vaccines (or the Nazi's "for the greater good" mentality behind eugenics - the breeding out illness. We are looking at forcing people who may never express a sociopathic gene to take antipsychotics, just in case.
Because that's what forced vaccination does. It asks children who may never come into contact with a particular virus to accept a vaccine, just in case. And that's what eugenics was all about. It sterilizes people who can pass on a genetic disease - just in case.

Forced vaccination is a human rights violation. To support it when you know that the government's own National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP) has paid nearly $3b to damaged persons. The government's Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) lists people who have died as a result of vaccines. Vaccination is unethical at best, sociopathic at worst.

What can we do?
1. The ethical thing to do is to allow people their right to refuse. Let doctors and big pharma - who has marketing budgets larger than the GDP of some countries - to do a better job of convincing parents that vaccines are safe, protective and harmless.
2. Reverse the law that grants vaccine manufacturers total immunity from vaccine injury lawsuits. You can't sue a vaccine manufacturer if your child is injured or killed by a vaccine, even in cases where a safer vaccine was available and not chosen.

Think about that. You can't sue the manufacturer. What other product has legal and government protection? The complete immunity from liability does more to shake a parents' confidence in vaccines than anything else. Be sure they know that with an adverse outcome from a vaccine, they are completely on their own."

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2015, 10:58:32 am »
It's vaccines or plagues,  one or the other. Don't give me any line of crap about a perfect diet being protective against all infectious diseases. Wild animal populations have epidemics regularly, on FAR more ideal diets (for their species) than any of us feed ourselves. Sure, a good diet HELPS, just like an ideal lifestyle/posture/etc.  also help. So what? There are diseases that are going to have mortality rates in the 20-30% range no matter WHAT you do. Infants and the elderly will die at much greater rates. Is avoiding those rare adverse events from vaccines worth killing 30% of the human race over? Granted, war and poverty are reduced after major plagues, but that seems like an extreme method to me. :)

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2015, 11:08:34 am »
What I learned about being a parent is:

- Having only 1 child, I was so afraid of many things... and that fear caused me to be herded into making those "bad" corporate decisions that the $$$ money masters wanted me to do.

- Having more children and having frustrations with experiences of illnesses of the first child... I was emboldened to explore new things and BET on the other children for a different outcome... hopefully better.

- Having even more children... like my mother in law who had 8, with 1 death... you learn to be cool... not be afraid.. even if disaster strikes... nature, TPTB, bad luck... hopefully can't kill all of your descendants.

I'm lucky enough to have bet on different children enough to see that vaccination does not work for my descendants... in fact vaccination harms them.  But that is just my experience... and hopefully many more to bet on in the future whether it be children or grand children.

You can't "control" all the mothers of your children or your grand children... some of them will give vaccinations even if you tell them not to... but if you teach them enough they will look for the signs that something was wrong and hopefully discontinue this fakery.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2015, 01:22:28 pm »
Vaccines existed before the profit motive distorted the truth in medicine. Your body doesn't know the difference between dead virus injections and live exposure.  They both generally provide immunity. Not always, but that's a rare exception.

edwin, what do you think happened to polio? Fucking vaccines stopped it. The same for smallpox, etc..  This isn't like the cooked-food thing, there's goddamn mountains of evidence for the efficacy of vaccines. Plagues or vaccines, people. Choose wisely.

*sigh* why do I have to do all the hard thinking for everyone?

Offline eveheart

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2015, 02:01:39 pm »
... I was emboldened to explore new things and BET on the other children for a different outcome... hopefully better.

GS, you make it sound as if vaccination is for the good of your children. Vaccinations were and are developed globally, not individually. In order for them to work, they must be administered globally. I can't find fault with mankind's desire to eradicate disease. "We" (mankind) are using best strategy that we know of at the moment. Side-effects of vaccination are real, but not as catastrophic as the disease itself. You won't see people in disease-torn areas strutting around saying that they have so many children that they can afford to expose them to the decimation of epidemic disease.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2015, 02:55:08 pm »
GS, you make it sound as if vaccination is for the good of your children.

Completely the opposite.  I do not know why you came to that conclusion.
My first child got all of the vaccine schedules for his first 2 years of life.
Those are the vaccines of 2001 to 2003 in Manila.
He is the sickliest of all my children and I have apologized to him several times.

I have since given up on hospitals because they cannot deliver births properly, and they vaccinate children.  I have taken matters into my own hands and now deliver my own babies and am the doctor of my own babies.


-------

Yes I understand what "they" wrote down as "history" of those diseases.

But as an engineer, whatever theory you got has to step up to actual experience.

As you can see by the children in my avatar some got vaccinated some did not... my experience tells me that vaccine alleged "science" does not work for my children, does not work for my genetics.

So I come to my own conclusion that the vaccines of the 21st century do not benefit and in fact harm my children.

Thus I come to conclude that any future children or grand children... I will adamantly choose with my 100% conviction to refuse vaccinations.

Because my engineering LOGIC and EXPERIENCE showed me their "science" about vaccination is FALSE.


« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 03:01:25 pm by goodsamaritan »
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Offline nummi

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2015, 06:49:18 pm »
what do you think happened to polio? Fucking vaccines stopped it. The same for smallpox, etc..
And if all those people had their diets and lifestyles correct enough in the first place... perhaps just a few would've become severely sick, those few having not as efficient genetics regarding such illnesses or immune system. Just a few, because as you should be aware, with a diet that actually fits how our bodies are built to work and to need, you don't really ever get sick.
First their bodies are screwed up through false diets and lifestyles, then they get sick because of it, and then vaccines that have mild to lethal effects themselves are given to them? Plus there are far better and actually harmless "alternatives" that aren't even researched and developed... Sorry, but vaccines are total BS.
Keeping people uninformed and stupid regarding diet and lifestyle and the world in general, and thus chronically weak and sick, does not justify feeding them vaccines in return under the guise of keeping them "healthy". This is insane.

If they had instead corrected peoples diets and lifestyles, and actually given them what their bodies need, then vaccines would not have been the ones to stop those illnesses.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2015, 07:23:57 pm »
CK has made a perfectly, valid, perfectly logical point, namely that wild animals get diseases all the time despite eating diets that are far superior to what most of us are able to get hold of. That pretty much kills off the notion of vaccines being utterly useless.Case closed, imo.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2015, 08:45:50 pm »
CK has made a perfectly, valid, perfectly logical point, namely that wild animals get diseases all the time despite eating diets that are far superior to what most of us are able to get hold of. That pretty much kills off the notion of vaccines being utterly useless.Case closed, imo.

That is not a point at all.  My due diligence and actual experience with multiple children showed me their sales talk is false.  All the literature is false.  Most probably the statistics were false too.

When you have your own biological children Tyler, I bet you will do your own due diligence research on the matter.  I only did so after my 2nd child was born because I was having problems with my first child.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 08:56:35 pm by goodsamaritan »
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Offline JeuneKoq

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2015, 10:44:52 pm »
Vaccines existed before the profit motive distorted the truth in medicine. Your body doesn't know the difference between dead virus injections and live exposure.  They both generally provide immunity. Not always, but that's a rare exception.

edwin, what do you think happened to polio? Fucking vaccines stopped it. The same for smallpox, etc..  This isn't like the cooked-food thing, there's goddamn mountains of evidence for the efficacy of vaccines. Plagues or vaccines, people. Choose wisely.

*sigh* why do I have to do all the hard thinking for everyone?

Wrong. These vaccines were introduced to the general public when the diseases were already disappearing naturally. There are statistics that illustrates this very clearly, and show that people started being injected with the vaccines when the morbidity level of said disease were already close to zero. Don't remember for which particular diseases, but I have the (valid alternative) medical magazines somewhere so I can look for the info if you're interested.

Claiming vaccines got rid of these diseases is like claiming my lemon-grass incense stick is to praise for the absence of mosquitoes each winter.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2015, 12:08:40 am »
I concur with JeuneKoq. 

Quote
what do you think happened to polio? Fucking vaccines stopped it. The same for smallpox, etc..

Additionally, the examples CK gave were eradicated diseases:

Smallpox - supposedly eradicated. this is not supposed to be in your vaccination schedule in 2015.

Polio - supposedly eradicated. should not be in your vaccination schedule in 2015... the only people who get polio the past few years are those given Polio vaccines...

(parents today should disregard the literature or evidence for small pox and polio because they do not count in 2015... they are no longer given.  their alleged past success has NO BEARING on existing vaccines today.)

This is exactly why in my due diligence with vaccines, I studied the literature on a PER VACCINE basis.

Never make the mistake of SWEEPING conclusions.

It just so happened that after going through every vaccine in my children's schedule... I conclude a big fat NO on all of them.

And be careful of those COMBO vaccine stupidities... when you have the CHOICE of taking single shots... if you so still believe the vaccine sales talk.

And the total load, the total list of vaccines scheduled for 2015 vs 1980 ?  Compare and see if you really want ALL of THAT on your kids... just imagine how must LARGER that list must be by 2030 or 2050.

Due diligence... you will do it for your kids.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 12:15:17 am by goodsamaritan »
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