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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Vaccination - MMR II Package Insert, CONTRAINDICATIONS, WARNINGS
« Reply #125 on: February 14, 2015, 09:35:38 pm »
Download MMR II package insert here http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

M-M-R® II
(MEASLES, MUMPS, and RUBELLA VIRUS VACCINE LIVE)

DESCRIPTION


(Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Virus Vaccine Live) is a live virus vaccine for vaccination against measles (rubeola), mumps, and rubella (German measles).

M-M-R II is a sterile lyophilized preparation of (1) ATTENUVAX® (Measles Virus Vaccine Live), a more attenuated line of measles virus, derived from Enders' attenuated Edmonston strain and propagated in chick embryo cell culture; (2) MUMPSVAX® (Mumps Virus Vaccine Live), the Jeryl Lynn™ (B level) strain of mumps virus propagated in chick embryo cell culture; and (3) MERUVAX® II (Rubella Virus Vaccine Live), the Wistar RA 27/3 strain of live attenuated rubella virus propagated in WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts.{1,2}

The growth medium for measles and mumps is Medium 199 (a buffered salt solution containing vitamins and amino acids and supplemented with fetal bovine serum) containing SPGA (sucrose, phosphate, glutamate, and recombinant human albumin) as stabilizer and neomycin. The growth medium for rubella is Minimum Essential Medium (MEM) [a buffered salt solution containing vitamins and amino acids and supplemented with fetal bovine serum] containing recombinant human albumin and neomycin. Sorbitol and hydrolyzed gelatin stabilizer are added to the individual virus harvests.

The cells, virus pools, and fetal bovine serum are all screened for the absence of adventitious agents. The reconstituted vaccine is for subcutaneous administration. Each 0.5 mL dose contains not less than 1,000 TCID
50 (tissue culture infectious doses) of measles virus; 12,500 TCID 50 of mumps virus; and 1,000 TCID
50 of rubella virus. Each dose of the vaccine is calculated to contain sorbitol (14.5 mg), sodium
phosphate, sucrose (1.9 mg), sodium chloride, hydrolyzed gelatin (14.5 mg), recombinant human albumin
( ? 0.3 mg), fetal bovine serum (<1 ppm), other buffer and media ingredients and approximately 25 mcg of
neomycin. The product contains no preservative.

Before reconstitution, the lyophilized vaccine is a light yellow compact crystalline plug. M-M-R II, when
reconstituted as directed, is clear yellow.

....

CONTRAINDICATIONS

Hypersensitivity to any component of the vaccine, including gelatin.{40}

Do not give M-M-R II to pregnant females; the possible effects of the vaccine on fetal development
are unknown at this time. If vaccination of post pubertal females is undertaken, pregnancy should be
avoided for three months following vaccination (see INDICATIONS AND USAGE, Non - Pregnant
Adolescent and Adult Females and PRECAUTIONS, Pregnancy)

Anaphylactic or anaphylactoid reactions to neomycin (each dose of reconstituted vaccine contains approximately 25 mcg of neomycin).

Febrile respiratory illness or other active febrile infection. However, the ACIP has recommended that all vaccines can be administered to persons with minor illnesses such as diarrhea, mild upper respiratory infection with or without low-grade fever, or other low-grade febrile illness.{41}

Patients receiving immunosuppressive therapy. This contraindication does not apply to patients who
are receiving corticosteroids as replacement therapy, e.g., for Addison's disease.

Individuals with blood dyscrasias, leukemia, lymphomas of any type, or other malignant neoplasms
affecting the bone marrow orlymphatic systems.

Primary and acquired immunodeficiency states, including patients who are immunosuppressed in
association with AIDS or other clinical manifestations of infection with human immunodeficiency
viruses;{41-43}cellular immune deficiencies; and hypogamm aglobulinemic and dysgammaglobulinemic
states. Measles inclusion body encephalitis{44} (MIBE), pneumonitis{45} and death as a direct
consequence of disseminated measles vaccine virus infection have been reported in
immunocompromised individuals inadvertently vaccinated with measles-containing vaccine.

Individuals with a family history of congenital or hereditary immunodeficiency, until the immune
competence of the potential vaccine recipient is demonstrated.

WARNINGS

Due caution should be employed in administration of M-M-R II
to persons with a history of cerebral injury, individual or family histories of convulsions, or any other condition in which stress due to fever should be avoided. The physician should be alert to the temperature elevation which may occur following vaccination (see ADVERSE REACTIONS).

Hypersensitivity to Eggs

Live measles vaccine and live mumps vaccine are produced in chick embryo cell culture. Persons with
a history of anaphylactic, anaphylactoid, or other immediate reactions (e.g., hives, swelling of the mouth
and throat, difficulty breathing, hypotension, or shock) subsequent to egg ingestion may be at an
enhanced risk of immediate-type hypersensitivity reactions after receiving vaccines containing traces of
chick embryo antigen. The potential risk to benefit ratio should be care fully evaluated before considering
vaccination in such cases. Such individuals may be vaccinated with extreme caution, having adequate
treatment on hand should a reaction occur (see PRECAUTIONS).{46}

However, the AAP has stated, "Most children with a history of anaphylactic reactions to eggs have no
untoward reactions to measles or MMR vaccine. Persons are not at increased risk if they have egg
allergies that are not anaphylactic, and they should be vaccinated in the usual manner. In addition, skin
testing of egg-allergic children with vaccine has not been predictive of which children will have an
immediate hypersensitivity reaction...

Persons with allergies to chickens or chicken feathers are not at increased risk of reaction to the vaccine."{47}
Hypersensitivity to Neomycin

The AAP states, "Persons who have experienced anaphylactic reactions to topically or systemically
administered neomycin should not receive measles vaccine. Most often, however, neomycin allergy
manifests as a contact dermatitis, which is a delayed-type (cell-mediated) immune response rather than
anaphylaxis. In such persons, an adverse reaction to
neomycin in the vaccine would be an erythematous,
pruritic nodule or papule, 48 to 96 hours after vaccination.

A history of contact dermatitis to neomycin is not a contraindication to receiving measles vaccine."{47}

Thrombocytopenia

Individuals with current thrombocytopenia may develop more severe thrombocytopenia following vaccination. In addition, individuals who experienced thrombocytopenia with the first dose of M-M-R II (or its component vaccines) may develop thrombocytopenia with repeat doses. Serologic status may be evaluated to determine whether or not additional doses of vaccine are needed. The potential risk to benefit ratio should be carefully evaluated before considering vaccination in such cases (see ADVERSE REACTIONS).

PRECAUTIONS

General

Adequate treatment provisions, including epinephrine injection (1:1000), should be available for immediate use should an anaphylactic or anaphylactoid reaction occur.

Special care should be taken to ensure that the injection does not enter a blood vessel.

Children and young adults who are known to be infected with human immunodeficiency viruses and
are not immuno suppressed may be vaccinated. However, vaccinees who are infected with HIV should be
monitored closely for vaccine-preventable diseases because immunization may be less effective than for
uninfected persons (see CONTRAINDICATIONS).{42,43}

Vaccination should be deferred for 3 months or longer following blood or plasma transfusions, or
administration of immune globulin (human).{47}

Excretion of small amounts of the live attenuated rubella virus from the nose or throat has occurred in
the majority of susceptible individuals 7 to 28 days after vaccination. There is no confirmed evidence to
indicate that such virus is transmitted to susceptible persons who are in contact with the vaccinated
individuals. Consequently, transmission through close personal contact, while accepted as a theoretical
possibility, is not regarded as a significant risk.{33}

However, transmission of the rubella vaccine virus to infants via breast milk has been documented (see
Nursing Mothers).

There are no reports of transmission of live attenuated measles or mumps viruses from vaccines to
susceptible contacts.

It has been reported that live attenuated measles, mumps and rubella virus vaccines given individually
may result in a temporary depression of tuberculin skin sensitivity. Therefore, if a tuberculin test is to be
done, it should be administered either before or simultaneously with M-M-R II.

Children under treatment for tuberculosis have not experienced exacerbation of the disease when
immunized with live measles virus vaccine;{48} no studies have been reported to date of the effect of
measles virus vaccines on untreated tuberculous children. However, individuals with active untreated
tuberculosis should not be vaccinated.

As for any vaccine, vaccination with M-M-R II may not result in protection in 100% of vaccines.

The health-care provider should determine the current health status and previous vaccination history
of the vaccine.

The health-care provider should question the patient, parent, or guardian about reactions to a previous
dose of M-M-R II or other measles-, mumps-, or rubella-containing vaccines.

Information for Patients

The health-care provider should provide the vaccine information required to be given with each
vaccination to the patient, parent, or guardian.

The health-care provider should inform the patient, parent, or guardian of the benefits and risks
associated with vaccination. For risks associated with vaccination see WARNINGS, PRECAUTIONS, and
ADVERSE REACTIONS.

Patients, parents, or guardians should be instructed to report any serious adverse reactions to their
health-care provider who in turn should report such events to the U.S. Department of Health and Human
Services through the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), 1-800-822-7967.{49}

Pregnancy should be avoided for 3 months following vaccination, and patients should be informed of
the reasons for this precaution (see INDICATIONS AND USAGE, Non-Pregnant Adolescent and Adult
Females , CONTRAINDICATIONS, and PRECAUTIONS, Pregnancy).

Laboratory Tests

See INDICATIONS AND USAGE, Non-Pregnant Adolescent and Adult Females, for Rubella

Susceptibility Testing, and CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY. Drug Interactions

See DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION, Use With Other Vaccines.

Immuno suppressive Therapy

The immune status of patients about to undergo immuno suppressive therapy should be evaluated so
that the physician can consider what her vaccination prior to the initiation of treatment is indicated (see
CONTRAINDICATIONS and PRECAUTIONS).

The ACIP has stated that "patients with leukemia in remission who have not received chemotherapy
for at least 3 months may receive live virus vaccines. Short-term (<2 weeks), low- to moderate-dose
systemic corticosteroid therapy, topical steroid therapy (e.g. nasal, skin), long-term alternate-day
treatment with low to moderate doses of short-acting systemic steroid, and intra-articular, bursal, or
tendon injection of corticosteroids are not immunosuppressive in their usual doses and do not
contraindicate the administration of [measle s, mumps, or rubella vaccine]."{33,34,37}

Immune Globulin

Administration of immune globulins concurrently with M-M-R II may interfere with the expected
immune response.{33,34,47}
See also PRECAUTIONS,

General

Carcinogenesis, Mutagenesis,

Impairment of Fertility M-M-R II has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or potential to impair fertility.

Pregnancy

Pregnancy Category C

Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with M-M-R II. It is also not known whether
M-M-R II can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction
capacity. Therefore, the vaccine should not be administered to pregnant females; furthermore, pregnancy
should be avoided for 3 months following vaccination (see INDICATIONS AND USAGE,

Non-Pregnant

Adolescent and Adult Females and CONTRAINDICATIONS).
In counseling women who are inadvertently vaccinated when pregnant or who become pregnant
within 3 months of vaccination, the physician should be aware of the following: (1) In a 10-year survey
involving over 700 pregnant women who received rubella vaccine within 3 months before or after
conception (of whom 189 received the Wistar RA 27/3 strain), none of the newborns had abnormalities
compatible with congenital rubella syndrome;{50} (2) Mumps infection during the first trimester of
pregnancy may increase the rate of spontaneous abortion. Although mumps vaccine virus has been
shown to infect the placenta and fetus, there is no evidence that it causes congenital malformations in
humans;{37} and (3) Reports have indicated that contracting wild-type measles during pregnancy
enhances fetal risk. Increased rates of spontaneous abortion, stillbirth, congenital defects and prematurity
have been observed subsequent to infection with wild-type measles during pregnancy.{51,52} There are
no adequate studies of the attenuated (vaccine) strain of measles virus in pregnancy. However, it would
be prudent to assume that the vaccine strain of virus is also capable of inducing adverse fetal effects.

Nursing Mothers

It is not known whether measles or mumps vaccine virus is secreted in human milk. Recent studies
have shown that lactating postpartum women immunized with live attenuated rubella vaccine may secrete
the virus in breast milk and transmit it to breast-fed infants.{53} In the infants with serological evidence of
rubella infection, none exhibited severe disease; however, one exhibited mild clinical illness typical of
acquired rubella.{54,55} Caution should be exercised when M-M-R II is administered to a nursing
woman.

Pediatric Use

Safety and effectiveness of measles vaccine in infants below the age of
6 months have not been established (see also CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY).

Safety and effectiveness of mumps and rubella vaccine in infants less than 12 months
of age have not been established.

Geriatric Use

Clinical studies of M-M-R II did not include sufficient numbers of seronegative subjects aged 65 and
over to determine whether they respond differently from younger subjects.

Other reported clinical experience has not identified differences in responses between the elder
ly and younger subjects.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 09:55:13 pm by goodsamaritan »
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Re: Vaccination - MMR II Package Insert, ADVERSE REACTIONS
« Reply #126 on: February 14, 2015, 09:49:59 pm »
Download MMR II package insert here http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

ADVERSE REACTIONS

The following adverse reactions are listed in decreasing order of severity, without regard to causality,
within each body system category and have been reported during clinical trials, with use of the marketed
vaccine, or with use of monovalent or bivalent vaccine containing measles, mumps, or rubella:

Body as a Whole


Panniculitis; atypical measles; fever; syncope; headache; dizziness; malaise; irritability.

Cardiovascular System

Vasculitis.

Digestive System

Pancreatitis; diarrhea; vomiting; parotitis; nausea.

Endocrine System

Diabetes mellitus.

Hemic and Lymphatic System

Thrombocytopenia (see WARNINGS, Thrombocytopenia); purpura; regional lymphadenopathy; leukocytosis.

Immune System

Anaphylaxis and anaphylactoid reactions have been reported as well as related phenomena such as
angioneurotic edema (including peripheral or facial edema) and bronchial spasm in individuals with or
without an allergic history.

Musculoskeletal System

Arthritis; arthralgia; myalgia. Arthralgia and/or arthritis (usually transient and rarely chronic), and polyneuritis are features of infection with wild-type rubella and vary in frequency and severity with age and sex, being greatest in
adult females and least in prepubertal children. This type of involvement as well as myalgia and paresthesia, have also been reported following administration of MERUVAX II.

Chronic arthritis has been associated with wild-type rubella infection and has been related to
persistent virus and/or viral antigen isolated from body tissues. Only rarely have vaccine recipients
developed chronic joint symptoms.

Following vaccination in children, reactions in joints are uncommon and generally of brief duration. In
women, incidence rates for arthritis and arthralgia are generally higher than those seen in children
(children: 0-3%; women: 12-26%), {17,56,57} and the reactions tend to be more marked and of longer
duration. Symptoms may persist for a matter of months or on rare occasions for years. In adolescent
girls, the reactions appear to be intermediate in incidence between those seen in children and in adult
women. Even in women older than 35 years, these reactions are gener ally well tolerated and rarely
interfere with normal activities.

Nervous System

Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) (see CONTRAINDICATIONS); subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE); Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS);
acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM); transverse myelitis; febrile convulsions; afebrile
convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis; polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia.

Experience from more than 80 million doses of all live measles vaccines given in the U.S. through
1975 indicates that significant central nervous system reactions such as encephalitis and encephalopathy, occurring within 30 days after vaccination, have been temporally associated with
measles vaccine very rarely.{58} In no case has it been shown that reactions were actually caused by
vaccine. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has pointed out that "a
certain number of cases of encephalitis may be expected to occur in a large childhood population in a defined period of time even when no vaccines are administered". However, the data suggest the possibility that some of these cases
may have been caused by measles vaccines. The risk of such serious neurological disorders following
live measles virus vaccine administration remains far less than that for encephalitis and encephalopathy
with wild-type measles (one per two thousand reported cases).

Post-marketing surveillance of the more than 200 million doses of M-M-R and M-M-R II
that have been distributed worldwide over 25 years (1971 to 1996) indicates that serious
adverse events such as encephalitis and encephalopathy continue to be rarely reported.{17}

There have been reports of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) in children who did not have
a history of infection with wild-type measles but did receive measles vaccine. Some of these cases may
have resulted from unrecognized measles in the first year of life or possibly from
the measles vaccination.

Based on estimated nationwide measles vaccine distribution, the association of SSPE cases to measles
vaccination is about one case per million vaccine doses distributed. This is far
less than the association with infection with wild-type measles, 6-22 cases of
SSPE per million cases of measles. The results of a retrospective case-controlled study conducted by
the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
suggest that the overall effect of measles vaccine has been to protect against SSPE by preventing
measles with its inherent higher risk of SSPE.{59}

Cases of aseptic meningitis have been reported to VAERS following measles, mumps, and rubella
vaccination. Although a causal relationship between the Urabe strain of mumps vaccine and aseptic
meningitis has been shown, there is no evidence to link Jeryl Lynn™ mumps vaccine to aseptic
meningitis.

Respiratory System

Pneumonia; pneumonitis (see CONTRAINDICATIONS); sore throat; cough; rhinitis.

Skin

Stevens-Johnson syndrome; erythema multiforme; urticaria; rash;
measles-like rash; pruritis.

Local reactions including burning/stinging at injection site; wheal and flare; redness (erythema);
swelling; induration; tenderness; vesiculation at injection site.

Special Senses — Ear

Nerve deafness; otitis media.

Special Senses — Eye

Retinitis; optic neuritis; papillitis;
retrobulbar neuritis; conjunctivitis.

Urogenital System

Epididymitis; orchitis.

Other

Death from various, and in some cases unknown, causes has been reported rarely following
vaccination with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines; however, a causal relationship has not been
established in healthy individuals (see CONTRAINDICATIONS).

No deaths or permanent sequelae were reported in a published post-marketing surveillance
study in Finland involving 1.5 million children and adults who were vaccinated with M-M-R
II during 1982 to 1993.{60}

Under the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, health-care providers and manufacturers
are required to record and report certain suspected adverse events occurring within specific time periods
after vaccination. However, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) has established
a Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) which will accept all reports of suspected
events.{49} A VAERS report form as well as information regarding reporting requirements can be
obtained by calling VAERS 1-800-822-7967.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 10:15:32 pm by goodsamaritan »
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Re: Vaccination - MMR II Package Insert: Did you READ before your CHILD got it ?
« Reply #127 on: February 14, 2015, 10:03:45 pm »
Download MMR II package insert here http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

My only questions to you aspiring parents is:

Did you read your package inserts WAY WAY BEFORE deciding to GIVE that vaccine, say in this case MMR II to your child?

Or was the only chance you got your hands on the package insert was AFTER your MD had given it to your child?

If you have not given that SPECIFIC vaccine to your child, then I urge you to READ WAY WAY before you even give the vaccine to your child.

In many cases prior, I would buy drugs or vaccines, read the package inserts with my wife, check for Class Action suits and Country  Shut Downs and Complaints and Bans... before giving the drug / vaccine.

There were times we actually THREW the drug in the garbage and wasted money, but at least we informed ourselves FIRST.

I hope you aspiring parents INFORM yourselves before you make these kinds of decisions.

As some of you already know I am NOT RELIGIOUS.

I do not base my decisions on FAITH or on FEAR.

I'd rather get the best information I can get from multiple sources and sides of the debate and then make my decisions.

The above posts I made are just what is on the package insert of one vaccine brand from one manufacturer.

You as PARENT must have the TENACITY to READ EVERYTHING... not just for 1 vaccine, but for ALL you wish to administer to your CHILD.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 10:14:32 pm by goodsamaritan »
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Re: Vaccination - MMR Banned in Japan 1993 due to DEATHS, Permanent Injuries...
« Reply #128 on: February 14, 2015, 10:55:20 pm »
"The triple jab (MMR) was banned in Japan in 1993 after 1.8 million children had been given two types of MMR and a record number developed non-viral meningitis and other adverse reactions.

Official figures show there were (3) three deaths while (8) eight children were left with permanent handicaps ranging from damaged hearing and blindness to loss of control of limbs.

The government reconsidered using MMR in 1999 but decided it was safer to keep the ban and continue using individual vaccines for measles, mumps and rubella."

...

"In 1993, after a public outcry fuelled by worries over the flu vaccine, the government dropped the requirement for children to be vaccinated against measles or rubella.

Dr Hiroki Nakatani, director of the Infectious Disease Division at Japan's Ministry of Health and Welfare said that giving individual vaccines cost twice as much as MMR 'but we believe it is worth it'."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-17509/Why-Japan-banned-MMR-vaccine.html#ixzz3RjOSxea8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

SO... it seems you CAN GET an individual MEASLES only vaccine in JAPAN... interesting.
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Re: Vaccination - MEASLES Philippines Official Statistics 2010-2013
« Reply #129 on: February 14, 2015, 11:41:27 pm »
Our Philippine Department of Health has some PUBLIC data on MEASLES in my country from 2010 to 2013
I assume the vaccine used is MMR ?

See here at http://www.doh.gov.ph/disease-surveillance.html

* NOTICE - They do not track MUMPS or RUBELLA !!! (I wonder why... you know by now, don't you?)

2010 Measles Morbidity Week 43 http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2010measleswk43.pdf
2010 Measles Morbidity Week 52 http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2010measleswk52.pdf
2011 Measles Morbidity Week 3 http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2011measleswk3.pdf
2011 Measles Morbidity Week 5 http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2011measleswk5.pdf
2011 Measles Morbidity Week 7 http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2011measleswk7.pdf
2011 Measles Morbidity Week 9 http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2011measleswk9.pdf
2011 Measles Morbidity Week 11 http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2011measleswk11.pdf
2011 Measles Morbidity Week 13 http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2011measleswk13.pdf
2011 Measles Morbidity Week 16
2011 Measles Morbidity Week 18
2011 Measles Morbidity Week 21
2011 Measles Morbidity Week 25
2012 Measles Morbidity Week 6
2012 Measles Morbidity Week 7
2012 Measles Morbidity Week 10
2012 Measles Morbidity Week 12
2012 Measles Morbidity Week 15
2012 Measles Morbidity Week 17
2012 Measles Morbidity Week 20 http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2012measleswk20.pdf
2013 Measles Morbidity Week 16
2013 Measles Morbidity Week 25
2013 Measles Morbidity Week 35
2013 Measles Morbidity Week 38
2013 Measles Morbidity Week 42
2013 Measles Morbidity Week 45
2013 Measles Morbidity Week 50 http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2013measleswk50.pdf
2013 Measles Morbidity Week 52 http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2013measleswk52.pdf

Go and click a couple of PDFs and take time to study the data.

Just how effective have the measles vaccines been in the Philippines?

For example on Page 4 of http://www.doh.gov.ph/sites/default/files/2012measleswk20.pdf figure 7 immunization status of confirmed measles cases,

the NOT VACCINATED - 41%,
the VACCINATED - 30%,
the UNKNOWN 16%,
NO DATA - 13%

If you have the time and statistical skills, you can probably tabulate all this and give your statistical assessment.

I do not have the time to do this.  All I can present to you is DATA from my government agency.

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #130 on: February 15, 2015, 02:08:57 am »
The red cross, however, vehemently rejects any notion that they used MMS to cure malaria. MMS sounds just like so many snake-oil products I have seen before on alternative health websites and books.
 I have a useful rule of thumb when checking any such product:- the believability of any product is inversely related to  how much guff they make about big pharma being oh, so dangerous. Non-spamming items just do not need such sales pitches.
Re: snake oil. I think you know about that story, but I will repeat it here. It was yet another drug manufacturer scam based on a real thing, Chinese water snake oil, that the Chinese immigrants used. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/snake-oil-salesmen-knew-something/

Nice theory about MMS, but I used it and it works. I had a case of tennis elbow that was persistent from an injury and one round of MMS protocol 1000 for a week  or so and it was gone and has not returned.

You see unlike yourself I make my decisions based on: what PPL I know and trust, who check out these things and if I hear good things I try it. This to me, is much better than basing decisions on beliefism/guessism/cynicism. That was what science was supposed to get rid of.

RE: the Red Cross, bear in mind this is the same cast of characters who dissed the * Heimlich Manoeuver for many years. I read the story about that and it is an incredible story of ego trips, know it alls, Doctors who didn't know how to read science. Many PPL died thanks to these creeps.

Same thing happened in Canada with this cast of characters with the **'tainted blood scandal'. I know someone who has lived with the disease caused by them.

* http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000047.htm

** http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/news/canadas-tainted-blood-scandal
Cheers
Al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #131 on: February 15, 2015, 03:07:04 am »
Re: snake oil. I think you know about that story, but I will repeat it here. It was yet another drug manufacturer scam based on a real thing, Chinese water snake oil, that the Chinese immigrants used. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/snake-oil-salesmen-knew-something/
I feel like praying for your immortal soul, and I'm an atheist.....

I loathe Chinese medicine, it is highly unnatural and is one of THE main reasons why constant environmental destruction is continuing, just because some  deluded rich Chinese still believe in the sheer, ludicrous absurdity of Chinese medicine, where, supposedly, one gets the strength and vitality of a tiger if one eats the animal parts thereof, and similiar b*llsh*t.  Even Chinese acupuncture has been extensively scientifically debunked by now....

Incidentally, I do not just take mainstream science as fact. I indeed often check it and only partially corroborate it, such as in the case of heat-created toxins from cooked foods. For example, may scientific studies condemn meats, but I have definitely shown that these studies only concern cooked meats, not raw meats, so the data  only apply to cooked meats, and are therefore wrong in damning all meats.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #132 on: February 15, 2015, 03:29:41 am »
I feel like praying for your immortal soul, and I'm an atheist.....

I loathe Chinese medicine, it is highly unnatural and is one of THE main reasons why constant environmental destruction is continuing, just because some  deluded rich Chinese still believe in the sheer, ludicrous absurdity of Chinese medicine, where, supposedly, one gets the strength and vitality of a tiger if one eats the animal parts thereof, and similiar b*llsh*t.  Even Chinese acupuncture has been extensively scientifically debunked by now....

Incidentally, I do not just take mainstream science as fact. I indeed often check it and only partially corroborate it, such as in the case of heat-created toxins from cooked foods. For example, may scientific studies condemn meats, but I have definitely shown that these studies only concern cooked meats, not raw meats, so the data  only apply to cooked meats, and are therefore wrong in damning all meats.
Sorry to rain on your parade but that article I linked to was Scientific American.

I was not advertising for TCM, just clarifying an urban legend that you were quoting as if it were true.

Re: the eating of animal parts, this is of course true and false. The eating of the parts may confer the benefits,  just the reporting of it in the media has made PPL go overboard causing the wanton destruction of animals in the wild just for their parts. Just like the buffalo hunting by white men in North America that brought them to the brink of destruction and the hunting of animals in Africa .

Some looney tune visited the town dump where I lived and killed all the bears there to sell whatever it is that they sell to TCM merchants.That kind of thing is a distorted version of human nature.

Everyone at this site eats food from animals but hopefully do not kill an animal just for a small part of it.

I think that most of the PPL on this site are guilty of not eating the whole animal. The aboriginals ate the whole thing.

A certain part of an animal may indeed be beneficial for certain PPL. I know that eating the heart and other organs was almost a ritual and I know of PPL nowadays who eat certain organs after they kill an animal. Just about everyone I knew in the small town I lived in hunted.

Regarding science, I am willing to accept a certain amount of it, but I have seen so much perversion of it to suit the one who pays for it that I have very little time for it. I do know that you do have a handle on the aspect of science that is useful.
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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #133 on: February 15, 2015, 03:48:17 am »
I feel like praying for your immortal soul, and I'm an atheist.....

I loathe Chinese medicine, it is highly unnatural and is one of THE main reasons why constant environmental destruction is continuing, just because some  deluded rich Chinese still believe in the sheer, ludicrous absurdity of Chinese medicine, where, supposedly, one gets the strength and vitality of a tiger if one eats the animal parts thereof, and similiar b*llsh*t.  Even Chinese acupuncture has been extensively scientifically debunked by now....

Incidentally, I do not just take mainstream science as fact. I indeed often check it and only partially corroborate it, such as in the case of heat-created toxins from cooked foods. For example, may scientific studies condemn meats, but I have definitely shown that these studies only concern cooked meats, not raw meats, so the data  only apply to cooked meats, and are therefore wrong in damning all meats.

Whats up with Tyler? ;)

My sister went to an TCM doc in Helsinki when she were young and he was the only one who could help her. She was healed in just a few acupuncture sessions..... I am not saying TCM is always the way to go but I do believe they have many great things. Absolutely!

and.. about the animal parts I have to disagree too.

Raw heart is what I crave when I feel my heart needs more power... and it helps.

Raw balls increases my libido pretty noticeable too.......

and raw brain makes me brain work more efficiently.

All my own N=1.

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #134 on: February 15, 2015, 03:56:59 am »
Inger,
You are right.

I hurt myself quite badly overdoing some Yoga about a year ago. I was in very much pain and a friend mentioned a TCM guy, who I went to and he used the needles.

I went from barely able to walk, to complete return to normal in about 40 minutes. It was pretty strange, when he put the needles in, I could see in my minds eye the path that the current or Chi flowed. It was an orange colour like an electrical arc. It was like shorting an electrical circuit, very fast and bright.

I mentioned it to the guy and he said my chi was strong because of my exercising.
Cheers
Al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #135 on: February 15, 2015, 04:14:53 am »
Sorry to rain on your parade but that article I linked to was Scientific American.
*sigh*, I too sometimes quote from scientific journals, but at least I often debunk some of their most-idiotically-used phrases and claims if they turned out to be dead-wrong!
Quote
I was not advertising for TCM, just clarifying an urban legend that you were quoting as if it were true.
Your claim re omega-3s is truly absurd when one takes into account that omega-3s are found in plentiful amounts in domesticated animals such as raw, 100% grassfed meats! Let alone raw, wildcaught seafood!


Quote
Re: the eating of animal parts, this is of course true and false. The eating of the parts may confer the benefits,  just the reporting of it in the media has made PPL go overboard causing the wanton destruction of animals in the wild just for their parts. Just like the buffalo hunting by white men in North America that brought them to the brink of destruction and the hunting of animals in Africa .

Some looney tune visited the town dump where I lived and killed all the bears there to sell whatever it is that they sell to TCM merchants.That kind of thing is a distorted version of human nature.
Fine, so let us use some logic and not touch anything that Chinese medicine advocates....
Quote
I think that most of the PPL on this site are guilty of not eating the whole animal. The aboriginals ate the whole thing.
Most of us do indeed aim for eating all the various innards, whenever they can....
[/quote]
A certain part of an animal may indeed be beneficial for certain PPL. I know that eating the heart and other organs was almost a ritual and I know of PPL nowadays who eat certain organs after they kill an animal. Just about everyone I knew in the small town I lived in hunted.Everyone at this site eats food from animals but hopefully do not kill an animal just for a small part of it.[/quote] Whenever possible, most of us do indeed go in for the raw innards....

Regarding science, I am willing to accept a certain amount of it, but I have seen so much perversion of it to suit the one who pays for it that I have very little time for it. I do know that you do have a handle on the aspect of science that is useful.
[/quote]

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #136 on: February 15, 2015, 04:17:39 am »
My own father had 2 big acupuncture sessions. The 1st failed him and he foolishly blamed incompetence re her, the 2nd succeeded. I have since researched studies on acupuncture and they prove that acupuncture is no better than a placebo....
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 04:07:13 am by TylerDurden »

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #137 on: February 15, 2015, 04:50:27 am »
Myown father had 2 big acupuncture sessions. The 1st failed him and he foolsshly blamed incompetence re her, the 2nd succeeded. I have since researched studies on acupuncture and they prove that acupuncture is no better than a placebo....
Who did the research TD ?

Placebo is an easy one to throw around. It can be invoked by anyone and anytime, and is a weak argument. The sources of some of the science that you like to quote must be paid for by someone who has a something for sale.

I have had other needle sessions that did nothing. I believe that like anything the talent of the operator is key.

The science that was done by PW was dissed by the publisher of the rag "Lancet" who just happened to be on the board of the UK drug company that produced the vaccines which is what this thread is about.

Now that is the "Placebo effect" in action.
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Al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #138 on: February 15, 2015, 04:52:08 am »
*sigh*, I too sometimes quote from scientific journals, but at least I often debunk some of their most-idiotically-used phrases and claims if they turned out to be dead-wrong! Your claim re omega-3s is truly absurd when one takes into account that omega-3s are found in plentiful amounts in domesticated animals such as raw, 100% grassfed meats! Let alone raw, wildcaught seafood!
No argument from me on the better source being raw. I am not arguing in favour of anything, simply clarifying your information.

The active ingredient in the snake oil from what I read in one link  is a chemical that starts with the letter x and is a well known pain reliever.
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Al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #139 on: February 15, 2015, 07:43:43 am »
Snake oil has gotten a bad rap, I bet if most people would consume cold pressed free range snake oil regularly, in place of the other garbage oils they usually eat, there would be noticeable health benefits... But why just eat the oil, I plan on catching a few snakes in my garden this year and making a Snake smoothie....Yum

I have long advocated eating the whole animal, and certain parts that are often thrown out may have incredible healing properties if eaten raw and regularly. My stomach smoothies are delightfully nutritious.

As for boosting immunity, how about instead of injecting infants with inoculations , why not feed them copious amounts of innards and organs, including the lymph tissue, thymus and other glands of raw, paleo quality animals. I eat all the nodes and glands from the animals I get, and they are full of viral antibodies and white blood cells that will nourish my own immune system. I would bet my left testicle that children raised in such a way would be head and shoulders, healthier and with stronger immunity than children who were fully vaccinated and fed a standard diet.

If medical science was untethered by special interest and antiquated ideologies then perhaps they could experiment on inoculating livestock with human immune factors and harvesting the raw glands and feeding those inoculated glands to people as a safer and more natural alternative to the current abhorrent vaccine protocols that are now in place.

We need visionaries to take up the calling to lead the next phase in the evolution of our scientific understanding, to see beyond the limitations and prejudices of our day and dig into possibilities that are much deeper than pervious explorations have revealed, Let us try and understand our past more clearly before running arrogantly headfirst into the unknown future.

 What do you think our ancestors were doing when they ate the whole animal. The animals and plants our ancestors ate contained antibodies to all bacteria , mold, fungus, plant toxins, viruses, etc that they had developed from being inoculated by contact with other life forms their environments. We incorporated the living immune factors from those plants and animals we ate. Only now days the link has been cut, and we no longer eat foods that are of our environment, and the foods we do eat have all the immune building factors either cut out or cooked out. On top of that there have been introduced a myriad of other disruptive influences which hamper the functioning of our bodies natural healing and immune response mechanisms.

Why don't we try to reconnect ourselves with the environment and work to restore holistic indigenous immunity, which for eons has been natures way of doing things... Before we go head long into the unknown of apishly tinkering with forces we can barely comprehend?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 07:52:27 am by sabertooth »
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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #140 on: February 15, 2015, 08:03:25 am »
Guys... if you want to talk about Acupuncture, MMS, Traditional Chinese Medicine, Snake Oil... you might want to split this into a new topic?
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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #141 on: February 15, 2015, 08:09:34 am »
Guys... if you want to talk about Acupuncture, MMS, Traditional Chinese Medicine, Snake Oil... you might want to split this into a new topic?


So... no using analogies, metaphors, and clever remarks if they contain references to acupuncture, MMS, TCM, and/or snake oil?
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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #142 on: February 15, 2015, 08:31:16 am »
I heard about this recently, feel free to make of it what you will:
Quote
Measles Outbreak In Ohio Leads Amish To Reconsider Vaccines
JUNE 24, 2014 3:31 AM ET
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/06/24/323702892/measles-outbreak-in-ohio-leads-amish-to-reconsider-vaccines
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

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Re: Vaccination - The Amish should start taking monthly statistics for Measles
« Reply #143 on: February 15, 2015, 11:26:24 am »
I heard about this recently, feel free to make of it what you will:

Quote
Measles Outbreak In Ohio Leads Amish To Reconsider Vaccines
JUNE 24, 2014 3:31 AM ET
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/06/24/323702892/measles-outbreak-in-ohio-leads-amish-to-reconsider-vaccines

Why I find Measles Only Single Vaccine possibly interesting for those who want it.  And not the MMR which has many reports of dire side effects including death, Japan banned the MMR in 1993.  And even Philippine statistics show that the MMR is really not effective... just look at the pie charts of what percentage of not vaccinated and the percentage of the vaccinated get measles.*

*Hint... vaccination against measles using MMR is not convincing according to Philippine stats.

Now is the chance for the Amish to take statistics like the Philippines does with measles vaccinations.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 11:40:34 am by goodsamaritan »
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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #144 on: February 15, 2015, 01:36:35 pm »
Acupuncture is the real deal, when done correctly. You don't believe? Go to China. I've had enough experience treating myself and others with acupressure to know how powerful it can be. Many non-Chinese practitioners are not well-trained. That's all I'll say about it in this thread. Start a new thread if you want to discuss it further.

Chinese herbalism and nutrition theory is a mixed bag of common sense,  paleo-type nutritional practice, pro-cooking and pro-grains bias, and some hooey. There are some things of value there, but you have to sift through the pro-cooking/pro-grains bias plus the rhino horn and tiger penis silliness, much like with Ayurveda. 

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #145 on: February 16, 2015, 02:11:05 am »
I heard about this recently, feel free to make of it what you will:
I think this hysteria over measles is bogus, even during the larger outbreaks in Amish country how many Amish people died or where permanently damaged? Then let us consider if you take an Amish community that have never suffered any fatalities and ill effects from these kind of viral illnesses, and you subject them to the same inoculation schedule that average Americans receive, though extremely unethical, it may at least make for a good case study that would help identify adverse reactions of vaccines in control group populations, that are limited in exposure to other possible contaminations. They would be the perfect lab rats for such an experiment? If after being inoculated, the rates of neurological, cognitive, allergy, or autoimmune disorders increase in Amish children, then it may provide proof of vaccines dangers, that is much harder to deny than when these conditions arise, in roundup ready fed, vaccinated populations!

The problem with any type of study of this nature is that how do we trust those conducting the research. For all we know the Amish would be given the single dose "Clean Vaccines" which the uber elite get for them selves and their children.

This issue of muti strain vaccines is important to consider. If the Amish just receive one shot of formula M( which is of congressional Quality) and don't have a reaction that in no way is proof that the formula MMRV ( which is designed for poor )that they receive at the government health department, and is being required for my children, is somehow safe.

The" clean" vaccines which the public officials get, and what they use in the trail runs, may not be the same shots they are giving the poor!   
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 02:38:59 am by sabertooth »
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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #146 on: February 16, 2015, 02:55:03 am »
Acupuncture is the real deal, when done correctly. You don't believe? Go to China. I've had enough experience treating myself and others with acupressure to know how powerful it can be. Many non-Chinese practitioners are not well-trained. That's all I'll say about it in this thread. Start a new thread if you want to discuss it further.

Chinese herbalism and nutrition theory is a mixed bag of common sense,  paleo-type nutritional practice, pro-cooking and pro-grains bias, and some hooey. There are some things of value there, but you have to sift through the pro-cooking/pro-grains bias plus the rhino horn and tiger penis silliness, much like with Ayurveda. 
100% agreed

That is something I think would be a cool addition to the forum, some kind of thanks or like button to give an idea who agrees or disagrees. A mini on the spot poll.
Cheers
Al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #147 on: February 16, 2015, 04:38:54 am »
A thumbs up sign etc. would not work. After all, we have had various changing viewpoints over the years - at one point, rawpaleodietforum  was full of raw, zero-carbers who almost succeeded in crushing all other opposition to the point where they started  asking for certain forums to be deleted, now I feel sorry for them as they are an oppressed minority these days.

As regards the parts of animals, I will concede that eating raw (grassfed etc.) hearts would be useful for someone with heart-disease and so on. But the vast majority of claims made by Chinese medicine to suggest that one automatically gains vast powers if one eats the part of a very rare wild animal is utter rubbish. Now, if Chinese medicine instead recommended the raw heart of a grassfed ox, instead, that would be fine...

Well, we will have to agree to disagree re acupuncture.

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #148 on: February 16, 2015, 05:49:49 am »
I have used a traditional healer to help me with past injuries. Being very active I am always straining something, and this energy healer woman uses pressure points and minor adjustments to help heal and realign the body. She works out the kinks, using many different techniques.

She would hit points that would radiate pressure and pain from one side of the body to the other , she once said that its like acupuncture with your hands. She had an intuitive feel, and could feel when ribs or vertebra were out, and tap them back into place effortlessly.

Acupuncture itself seems like it may be supportive to healing but I bet the results would be better if other integrated healing arts were used with it.
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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #149 on: February 16, 2015, 07:24:03 am »
Since I would be absolutely hated for citing a source like quackwatch once again, I thought of a more obvious, more reliable source, namely James Randi who has exposed numerous charlatans as well as many of the alternative medicine fields:-

http://www.newsweek.com/2013/08/16/james-randi-amazing-meeting-and-bullshit-police-237816.html

 

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