PaleoPhil's Journal

[PaleoPhil]

This morning I used my plaque scraper that I use every few days to scrape off some accumulated dental plaque and this time the plaque came off easier than ever and left me with cleaner teeth than I've ever had aside from after a cleaning at the dentist's office, even though it has been months since my last cleaning.

I can also feel my muscles a little more, like the neural signals are getting through better, and I've had a slight increase in strength without doing any more exercise than normal.

[cherimoya_kid]

P5P, you think?

[PaleoPhil]

Yes, I think so. We shall see if this increases further.

The brand of the P5P I use is the VitaminShoppe brand. I doubt that it's better than other brands. I've read that it can take 3 weeks for major benefits to occur from P5P. I noticed improvements in about 24 hours, though I took very big daily doses (3 to 6 of them per day, recently with one or two ordinary B6 tablets added).

---

Dr. Terry Wahls uses B6 in treating her MS and that of her patients.

"According to the graph shown during Dr. [Terry] Wahls speech, less than half of all Americans get enough vitamin B6 and magnesium in their diet. More than 70 percent do not get sufficient amounts of iodine, and a whopping 80 percent do not get enough omega-3 fat from their diet. This, by the way, is why animal-based omega-3 is one of the few supplements I recommend to virtually everyone." - Dr. Mercola, Doctor Reverses MS in 9 Months by Eating These Foods, December 23, 2011,
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/12/23/overcoming-multiple-sclerosis-through-diet.aspx

People with pyroluria reportedly are deficient in B6 and often also magnesium, which fits well with the stressing of the importance of these nutrients by Drs. Mercola and Wahls. However, people with pyroluria reportedly often also retain omega 3 fatty acids very well and so tend to have too much omega 3 and not enough omega 6 (though I haven't seen any studies confirming this tendency). If Dr. Larson's numbers below are anywhere near accurate, then Dr. Mercola's advice on omega 3 may not really be true for "virtually everyone."

Pyroluria, An Inborn Mistake

This disorder is connected to an abnormal production of a group of body chemicals called pyrroles. Pyrroles are a worthless byproduct of hemoglobin synthesis. Most people have very little if any of these pyrroles circulating in their bodies. We know that through measuring levels of pyrroles excreted via the urine. Some of us, however, are not so fortunate. Pyrroles are abnormally high in about:

•   30% of schizophrenics
•   40% of persons with psychiatric problems
•   11% of normals
•   25% of disturbed children
•   40% of alcoholics

- Joan Mathews Larson, Ph.D, http://www.joanmathewslarson.com/HRC_2006/Depression_06/D_Hide_In_Closet.htm

Dr. Wahls talks about the importance of raw meat:

17:51  "[W]e need DHA, which is an omega 3 fat, that docosahexaenoic acid, so [we] can have a big brain. It's also very important in the midface development, so you have a nice, broad dental arch, straight teeth. You get this in wild fish, wild shellfish, and to a lesser degree in grassfed meat; raw, when you cook it, you do lose it. So grassfed meat does of course have more omega 3 fatty acids, but you want to have it raw. The more you cook it, the more you lose."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg216KCuXSM

34:19 "[T]he advantage to having your meat raw, you're going to have more of the vitamins, the minerals intact, and the meat will begin to autodigest in your stomach. You'll need fewer enzymes from your pancreas to digest that food. The hazard of eating your meat raw is the public health hazard of parasites and bacterial infections. Because of our conventional farming, that now becomes a much higher risk proposition. If you can buy your meat from farmers that you know and you know the health of the animal, you're decreasing the risk somewhat. If you have the meat in a deep freeze for at least 14 days, you're going to decrease the risk of parasites, but there are certainly public health concerns. Eating enzymes with your food is another way of dealing with those issues. I buy my meat directly from the farmer. I would be nervous about getting meat commercially and eating it raw."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg216KCuXSM

A comment on Dr. Wahl's video on Youtube reveals that raw meat is important in part because of B6:

TheCalmCanary 1 month ago
For B6, eat raw animal foods - raw milk, raw oysters, sashimi or ceviche, raw meat (esp. organ meats), raw pasture-raised egg yolks, etc. For more info watch "Cure Tooth Decy" with Nagel, Fallon
No B6, no dreams. No dreams, no tingling. No tingling, no nirvana.
(I was told by my neurology [sic])

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg216KCuXSM

Many of the disorders that Dr. Wahls mentioned in her talk are reportedly benefited by vitamin B6 and often pyroluria therapy.

The raw meat - B6 connection is another place where a piece of the puzzle seems to be fitting for me, given my experiencing raw animal foods to be quite beneficial.

[jessica]

PaleoPhil thanks for keeping up your journal. 

Pyroluria was one of the first things I asked to be tested for 6 or so years ago before I ever even started illuminating foods(although Ive always had a better than SAD diet) and my doctor is a total pill pusher, ordered wrong test and interpreted it incorrectly.  I was so frustrated I gave up at that point and went to a raw vegan retreat/farm, uuugh!  I only wish at that time I had better guidance and all of this information readily available. 

Even if "Pyroluria" is just a bunching of symptoms due to various vitamin and mineral deficiencies, knowing what to focus on supplementing nutritionally and what to eliminate environmentally and dietarily to get the body and mind  functioning and HEALING would have been optimal at that point.  Live and learn for sure. 

I am focusing on lots of zinc, chromium, b's, selenium, mag, vit c and iodine.  I feel benefits each day and notice my recovery from stress is really coming along, I have no doubt, that with moderation and persistence, eating lots of raw animal foods with the added benefit of nutritional balancing will bring me to steady and true health.

[aLptHW4k4y]

From what I've read, the theory for the dreams effect is that p5p combines with tryptophan to produce extra serotonin in the brain and elsewhere. This is especially popular with those interested to experience vivid/lucid dreams, and is supposed to work best when you take larger amount before sleep and combine with some protein rich in tryptophan (like cheese).
I tried p5p inspired by your posts, and the next day I had such a strongly vivid dream, then searched around a bit and discovered the above theory. That was the only effect I've noticed. Btw, you don't want to take above 200mg from what I read, otherwise you get numbing/tingling at the extremities, and is potentially dangerous for the brain.

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks, I haven't gotten any numbness, tingling or vivid dreams yet, despite taking as much as 250 mg P5P plus 100 mg B6. This suggests a rather strong deficiency.

Regarding those side effects, could you have been reading about the pyrodixine HCL form of B6 instead of P5P? Those side effects are much more linked to pyrodixine HCL than P5P (see Pyridoxine & Pyridoxal 5'Phosphate, Thorne Research, http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/6/1/87.pdf). I have seen no reported clinical or study cases at all of serious harm to the brain from P5P. The P5P form was actually called "nontoxic" in one research paper (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4094726) and even a detoxifying antidote for multiple poisons in another (Pyridoxal 5'-phosphate as an antidote for cyanide, spermine, gentamicin, and dopamine, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3576625).

This "Dr. JM" claims to have not seen any side effects from P5P in any of her patients: http://www.remedyspot.com/showthread.php/3465259-How-high-can-you-go-with-P5P-Have-I-gone-too-high-Dr-JM-please-advise!

[cherimoya_kid]

Wow.  This is really interesting. I love reading about other people's experiments.

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks Cherimoya.

I had a good dental cleaning visit today. The hygienist's poker didn't stick in the cavity like in the past and she didn't even mention it, whereas in the past she was concerned that it might need filling. When I asked about it, she indicated that she doesn't even consider it a cavity anymore, just a dip (I can't remember the exact word she used) in the tooth enamel.

[LePatron7]

Thanks Cherimoya.

I had a good dental cleaning visit today. The hygienist's poker didn't stick in the cavity like in the past and she didn't even mention it, whereas in the past she was concerned that it might need filling. When I asked about it, she indicated that she doesn't even consider it a cavity anymore, just a dip (I can't remember the exact word she used) in the tooth enamel.

What's your magnesium, calcium and vitamin k consumption like? What are some things you're doing for dental health? Brushing? Flossing, etc.

[PaleoPhil]

Yes, I've tried all those things and more and B6 has so far helped much more than all those and everything else, and it did so dramatically within a week or so. It's looking like B6 is especially important in my case. This would explain why all those things that help many other folks quite a bit didn't do a lot for me (some, but not a lot). For example, a number of people reported that taking K2 supplements or butter oil resulted in a quick and dramatic reduction in their dental plaque and I was puzzled why I wasn't getting that sort of result, but continued to take it (and Ca/Mg bone minerals, Mg supplements, bone broths, animal fat, etc.) anyway, figuring it was helping a little, and I did gradually improve if I also kept my carb intake down. Then I took B6 (P5P form) and got the sort of result those folks reported from K2. The amazing thing about the P5P is I can even eat some carbs and my teeth still feel polished! That's the first time that has happened in as long as I can remember (decades).

[PaleoPhil]

Greetings to the Sunka Wakan Oyate and all real peoples,

I have more good news to report on the health front today. I'm not sure when this happened, but I first noticed it today--my eyes are much less bloodshot than in the past. I noticed when I looked in the mirror that the whites looked much whiter than usual. I looked closer and saw that some red spots of dense veins that I had had for decades were now greatly receded. Hoozah!

I Googled this and found that B6 deficiency has been connected to bloodshot eyes:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070717185214AAywMTK

http://www.menshealth.co.uk/style/skin-care/q-how-can-i-get-rid-of-bloodshot-eyes-286915

http://homeremediesandtreatments.com/bloodshot-eyes--which fits with my recent B6 supplementation.

I also found that some anti-redness eye drops contain boric acid (Bausch and Lomb Collyrium For Fresh Eyes Eye Washhttp://www.soap.com/p/bausch-and-lomb-collyrium-for-fresh-eyes-eye-wash-31891?site=CA&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc_S&utm_term=ABL-025&utm_campaign=GoogleAW&CAWELAID=1323253641&utm_content=pla&adtype=pla&cagpspn=pla) and that boric acid deficiency can contribute to bloodshot eyes. Some foods that I eat, such as eggs and dates, reportedly contain boric acid (https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/1927/V17N02_066.pdf?sequence=1).

[aLptHW4k4y]

All links resolve with 404 error.
Anyway, great to hear it's going so good.

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks a million! I think I fixed the links. Please let me know if any are still broken.

[PaleoPhil]

I had the first recall of vivid color in a dream this morning. It was a beautiful tall stalk of deep purple flowers. A pleasant and slightly feminine voice from above said "foxglove," as though it were gently explaining to me what the flower is called, the way a parent teaches a child what things are named. The name of the flower sounded a bit familiar, though I didn't recall what it is. I had the sense that it was significant in some way. Then I awoke.

I Googled foxglove. It is a purple flower, though the flower in my dream was a darker purple, more like the dark spots in this floxglove image:

It is used to treat some forms of heart disease, such as atrial fibrillation. Coincidentally, I recently learned that my brother had a-fib, though my understanding is that it went away.

That's the first time I recall having a dream like that. Is this how other people's dreams are? The only dreams I recalled in recent years were chaotic, disjointed and made no sense. My father said that the only dreams he recalls are this way too. I can't even remember the last time I recalled a dream before these most recent ones that are increasingly pleasant and now colorful. I had been grateful that I was no longer recalling the dreams of the past years, given their unpleasantness. I welcome this new, more pleasant sort of dream. I feel like a child that has seen its first flower. I enjoyed this new experience.

[Dr. D]

I just stumbled upon this flower a few weeks ago for the first time in my life. I thought it sad beautiful and the were so many blooms!

Are your dreams better from P5P also? I know mine are usually gray. I've been really debating and considering pyroluria for myself and can't come to a conclusion. I'm wondering if I'm deficient in either zinc or b6, not both. Maybe I should get P5P and just see if it helps?

[PaleoPhil]

This is my first recall of a pleasant and colorful dream, though maybe there were some in my childhood that I don't remember. I only remember unpleasant or neutral dreams in the past, and they were few and far between, except for during periods of illness in which there was more frequent recall and they were more unpleasant.

Nora Gedgaudas has a sample list of pyroluria symptoms that clued me in to possibly having it: http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/?p=398 There are many more symptoms reported elsewhere. I had seen Chris Kresser list some, but it was Nora's longer list that really drove home the point for me. I think I had seen a similar list years ago, but I vaguely recall that I found most sources saying it was quackery. I think I even tried B6 before, due to some symptom connections, but not the P5P form and in a too-low dose (the recommended dose on the bottle) for it to do anything even if it had been the P5P form.

[PaleoPhil]

Oddly enough, I feel like I'm standing a bit straighter since taking P5P. I searched my PC files and found this that I had saved years ago:

"Spinal Curvature and Nutrition

Scoliosis has been induced in a variety of animals through the creation of nutritional deficits and imbalances.  Not surprisingly, many of the nutritional imbalances linked to scoliosis in animals such as deficits of manganese, vitamin B6, and copper have all also been implicated as factors in osteoporosis in humans. " (Sandy Simmons, http://www.ctds.info/scoliosis.html#nutrition)

Within weeks, P5P has become the single most beneficial health therapy I've ever tried, a bit more so even than raw Paleo (sorry folks).

[PaleoPhil]

This lovely tune started playing in my head this morning:

One Rainy Wish
By Jimi Hendrix

Golden rose, the color of the dream I had
Not too long ago
Misty blue and lilac too
Never to grow old.

There you were under the tree of song
Sleeping so peacefully
In your hand a flower played
Waiting there for me.

I have never
Laid eyes on you
Not before this timeless day
But you woke and you
Smiled my name
And you stole
My heart away
Stole my heart away

Golden rose, the color of the dream I had
Not too long ago
Misty blue and lilac too
Never to grow old.

Golden rose, the color of the dream I had
Misty blue and lilac too
Golden rose, the color of the dream I had
Misty blue and lilac too
Golden rose, golden rose, golden rose.

It's only a dream
I'd love to tell somebody about this dream
The sky was filled with a thousand stars
While the sun kissed the mountains blue
And eleven moons played across the rainbows
Above me and you.
Golden rose the color of the velvet walls, surrounds us.

Jimi Hendrix Experience - One Rainy Wish

[Dr. D]

According to that list I have 15 for sure, some very strong, about 3 additional that are split. I guess I better get tested.

[jessica]

haha phil, I have been conjuring up all kinds of jimi Hendrix songs in the last months, just out of nowhere.  haven't listened to them in a good 20 years, back when I stole my sisters friends tapes, good stuff though.

I hope you start having some vivid amazing dreams.  mine came back last year after I stopped smoking weed, stoped taking 5htp and started to really allow myself to sleep and make it a healing time.  now I know I have 2 sets of dreams a night, recall on most nights.  its a great place to be, in dreams, and I can feel a lot of physical and mental healing coming through during sleep.  before I think my body was just processing all the poison I was feeding it, now I feel its actually taking the time to rebuild and reconnect.

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks for sharing your experience and good wishes, Jessica--and I wish you well also. In my case, I don't smoke ganja or currently take 5htp and before trying P5P I did employ the standard advice about allowing plenty of time to sleep and make it a healing, relaxing time, sleep in as much darkness as possible, and so forth.

I did try one tablet of 5htp on two occasions and had bad experiences. I took 1 50 mg tablet with a meal (supper), per the instructions. I passed out asleep within a half hour of taking them (before I intended to) and slept for much longer than usual and still felt groggy and dizzy the next morning and my legs felt they had some sleep paralysis in them, making it difficult to walk to work, whereas after P5P I need less sleep, feel much better rested and energetic, have a spring in my step and am clearer-headed). Somewhere I read that some folks with pyroluria may have difficulty metabolizing the 5htp, whereas others benefit from it, though I forget where I saw that.

One of the things that helped convince me to try B6 (in the P5P form) was that after reading about the no-dreaming indicator, I made a focused effort to try to have dreams and recall them. I got plenty of sleep, slept in, woke without an alarm, and even stayed in bed after waking, in case I might dose off again and have a dream. I also kept pad and paper available to record dreams. On a couple occasions it seemed I had dreamed, but before I could even grab the pen I instantly forgot whatever the dream was and I couldn't even remember if had actually dreamed.

I hadn't changed my sleep habits when I started recalling dreams and I was actually getting less sleep than before and the only major change I made was in supplements, particularly P5P. My guess is that this will be difficult for some folks to believe without experiencing it themselves, as conventional medicine unfortunately appears to dismiss it all as quackery.

I felt very warm and good after eating some bone broth this morning. I checked my oral temp afterwards, allowing some time for the mouth to cool down to avoid throwing off the reading. At 9:30 AM my oral temp was 99.2 F.

---

Unrelated clarifying footnote to my dream post: I'm not theistic and am not reading any supernatural or other message into my foxglove dream. For now I'm not even going to try to give my dreams a secular interpretation--like my subconscious puzzling things out while I sleep--I'm just reporting notable things and, as always, keeping an open mind. I'm also interested in other folks' dream experiences.

---

I found some ripe wild black raspberries today. There are more of them than I've seen the past several years and they were juicier and tastier than usual, perhaps due to the plentiful rain we've had.

[PaleoPhil]

Pyrole (pyrrole/kryptopyrrole) urine testing:

I'm no expert on this, but I've learned that pyroles are highest in the urine in the morning and one apparently should eat foods containing carbs or alcohol and avoid B6/P5P supplements for 5-7 days beforehand to increase the chances of sampling when there are substantial pyroles in the urine (which would likely result in me feeling miserable, so I doubt I'll do that, but maybe I'll do the test some day anyway to make sure that I don't have elevated pyroles even with nutritional therapy).

[PaleoPhil]

Muhammad Sunshine's thread here - http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/fantastic-health-benefits-of-butyrate-6649 - encouraged me to question the dismissals by LC advocates like Dr. Eades of reported benefits from resistant starch.

One interesting article I came across in searching the topic was this one from Prof. Stephan Guyenet - http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/12/butyric-acid-ancient-controller-of.html - which contains an explanation for why certain plant foods might be superior to butter as sources of buytrate (via inulin, resistant starch, etc.) .

Recent posts on resistant starch at the Free the Animal blog (warning: explicit language and flame wars, though the resistant starch posts and comments thankfully are relatively free of that, IIRC) and Mark's Daily Apple forum have further encouraged my experimentation.

I've tried various sources of inulin and resistant starch over the years. Here's a brief summary of results up to now:
> inulin-rich foods (garlic, shallots, turnips, leeks, onions, jicama, asparagus, dandelion root, burdock root, artichokes, ...): no noticeable benefits; some difficult to digest; garlic, shallots, leeks and turnips were the best I tried for both digestion and flavor and I still consume some
> chewable inulin tablets like Fiberchoice (I think the Fiberchoice tablets were the standard original version--whatever seemed least adulterated--though it's been years since I used it): there seemed to be some improvement of constipation for 2 or 3 weeks, then little or no benefit; palatable taste
> fermented blenderized raw potatoes with yogurt and salt--the results tasted awful (it went into the trash)
> cooked potatoes (including cold mashed potatoes mixed with sheep's yogurt and allowed to supposedly ferment in the fridge and unmodified starch added to cold mashed potatoes with butter): give me the usual pyroluria-type symptoms I get from the other carb sources that I don't tolerate well, such as muscle tension, lower extremity edema and pain and flank and bladder pain in the morning
> bananas - ripe ones don't contain a lot of resistant starch; haven't experimented with dried or cooked green bananas (other than plantains, which are a type of banana); mild pyroluria-type symptoms, especially if not super-ripe
> Super-ripe (black) raw plantains: taste good and seem tolerable to my system, but I don't as yet notice any benefit from them (though my intakes have been small and intermittent, in part because they take weeks to blacken
> dried green plantains - my first batch is drying in the fridge
> unmodified potato starch (Bob's Red Mill; supposedly not high-heated): I've had a couple of intriguing drops of blood glucose to 79 mg/dl after consuming a tbsp or two, which is a rather low reading for me since I started eating LC; I also so far don't notice the negative symptoms that cooked potatoes give me

[paper_clips43]

You inspired me to start taking P5P which I have been now for the past week.

I feel like I have had more energy and more restful sleep although I do not recall my dreams an easier.

I also notice the pain in my wrist has decreased.

How much have you been taking? and how long now?

I just take one pill with a non animal based meal.

[PaleoPhil]

Glad to hear that it's helping you. I take such a huge dose that I'm reticent to share it for fear that someone might jump right to it. Instead I recommend finding the dose that works best for you. The general recommendation is to keep increasing the dose, spread throughout the day (though I try to avoid taking it after supper, as I find it can keep me awake at night; so I take some with breakfast, or upon first rising if I'm experiencing pyroluria-type symptoms, lunch and supper), until one has regular recall of pleasant dreams.