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Messages - Qondrar_The_Redeemer

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1
Personals / Re: Contacting Sv3rige
« on: Yesterday at 05:51:23 am »
You're saying you couldn't get enough minerals from fish?
What about oysters/mussels? Oysters especially are so salty to me, it would be hard to not get enough minerals from them. They are traditionally eaten raw as well..
Looking at it from a mineral perspective, oysters tend to be very high (sometimes the highest, depending on the species) in zinc, high in copper and selenium. Potassium, magnesium and sodium tends to be similar between fish, oysters and land animals. Although it could be the salt water you are tasting, in which case you would be getting some additional minerals, albeit not much. Mostly some extra sodium.
 
With all the organs he eats, he should easily be getting all the selenium, manganese, copper, zinc, phosphorus, iron and calcium. The only ones (and only if he is not consuming a large enough volume of food) which in general would be below recommended daily intake would be magnesium, potassium and sodium. Blood has a pretty high potassium and sodium content, although it is not as high in magnesium. On paper he should be getting everything. It's also very bioavailable.

But there's probably more to it than just paper values of what you should be getting. And looking at it, he should mostly be getting calcium and phosphorus from bones.

2
Personals / Re: Contacting Sv3rige
« on: Yesterday at 03:49:36 am »
Very interesting. Do you eat any other animals than sheep? You could get more blood and marrow from larger animals, along with any other parts of the animal (organs, muscle, whatever).
And if you do only eat sheep, any reason why you prefer sheep over other animals?

Also, in regards to bones, how much do you eat?

3
General Discussion / Re: Cold vs Room temp meat
« on: May 20, 2018, 05:47:09 pm »
I don't find much of a difference between cold and room temperature, meat, personally. Although usually the inside is not as cold as the outside, and it might depend on your refrigerator temperature as well. Blood I prefer to leave outside for a while, as I dislike cold liquids. As dariorpl already said, in some areas, the meat could remain warm, albeit not from the animal itself, while in others it might even freeze.


If you could get meat from an animal that was very recently killed and is still warm, that would probably be the best. It might explain why a lot humans tend to favor warm meat (and to an extent cooked meat?).

4
Personals / Re: Contacting Sv3rige
« on: May 19, 2018, 11:11:36 pm »
I'd love to see the source for the ca. in marrow.  thanks
Marrow has around 277.3 to 339.7 mg of calcium per 100 grams (in reindeer) according to this:

Level of selected nutrients in meat, liver, tallow and bone marrow from semi-domesticated reindeer (Rangifer t. tarandus L.):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417664/

It shows plenty of other vitamins/minerals/proteins/fats in reindeer  muscle, liver, tallow and bone marrow.

5
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Bitter Meat?
« on: May 19, 2018, 06:07:55 pm »
I have sometimes left raw meat in  vacuum-packed plastic for as much as 7 to 10 days. Generally, after 6 days, the meat would taste really nasty with a sharp, bitter taste, which does not appear in "high-meat" that has been regularly aired - so I would throw it away.If that is what you mean, I strongly advise you to avoid it like the plague.
Yes, that is exactly what it tasted it like. Tasted toxic. The taste remained in my mouth for an hour afterwards, despite quickly spitting it out after the first bite. It was also sticky, which might explain why the taste remained there for so long. I already had a similar experience when I first started eating raw meat. I ate some bone marrow I shouldn't have, and it resulted in the most intense bowel movement of my life. I've never eaten anything that hasn't tasted quite right since then.

And you were, right. I actually did leave it in vacuum-packed plastic for too long. I did however want to know if anyone had any experience with bitter tasting meat.

6
Personals / Re: Contacting Sv3rige
« on: May 19, 2018, 02:06:59 pm »
Ok.

But what about the lower limits?

How could we get calcium and phosphorous from organs and meat diet only?
I don't mean to discourage anyone from eating bones, I just personally think it is more natural to eat smaller bones raw than larger ones cooked. Perhaps Derek is on to something, and the extremely large amounts of calcium and phosphorus are useful, I couldn't say. You could also eat lower amount, no need to overeat on bones. Although I am curious just how much is actually absorbed.

The best source of calcium other than bones would be bone marrow. Phosphorus is present in all types of meat (muscle and organs), and shouldn't be a problem.


7
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Bitter Meat?
« on: May 19, 2018, 11:18:00 am »
I've just tasted some very bitter fermented (high meat). No meat has ever taste like this before. I think I screwed up this time by letting sit in the original package for too long and only then letting it air. I don't think this is something I'm going to eat, since I trust my instinct more than I'm willing to experiment with bitter meat.

Any thoughts? Do you think a bitter flavor is a sign to be alarmed at?

8
Personals / Re: Contacting Sv3rige
« on: May 19, 2018, 09:36:47 am »
interesting,, where are you going for your info. would like to have it for when I look.  thanks
Human bones:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1062811/

Rat bones:
http://www.jbc.org/content/79/1/147.full.pdf

Chicken bones:
http://www.retrieverpro.com/dog-healthy-food-calcium/

The values I listed before were for rat bones. Some animals have a higher/lower calcium and phosphorus percentage. Chicken bones, for example, are 30% calcium (30 grams calcium/100 grams of bone) and 15% phosphorus (15 grams phosphorus/100 grams of bone).

9
Personals / Re: Contacting Sv3rige
« on: May 19, 2018, 04:05:01 am »
that's my point with the high ca. content of bones...  For years we have been told to get lots of ca.  Now, I read more about the balance of mg. with ca. and others.    and, how excess ca. can contribute to the plaque on arteries..   Some have written that it drops out of suspension from the blood.   I don't know if that is true when the source is cooked bones, but do have direct experience when younger and taking mineral supplements in the form of powders ot tablets where I would develop hardened stone like pebbles underneath tissue where my prosthetic socket pressures were high.  This happened so many times while trying 'another' form of mineral supplement that there is No doubt of the phenomena.  Simply too many immediate occurrences to be a coincidence.
 

It seems that bones actually vastly exceed the Upper Intake Level of Calcium (2.5 grams) when consumed, even in amounts not considered that large (100 grams for example). Now, perhaps not all of it is getting absorbed, but it makes you think...

100 grams of bones would have anywhere from 13 to 23! grams of calcium. It  seems I was also wrong when I said it contained "only" a high phosphorus content. It turns out that is also huge (highest of any food?), at 6 to 10 grams per 100 grams. The tolerable Upper Intake Level of Phosphorus is only 4 grams, so again, it exceeds that.

10
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Raw brain buying concern?
« on: May 19, 2018, 03:52:27 am »
I've never understood how some other people dislike liver so much. I find it one of the best tasting raw animal foods, along with bone marrow. Then again, I've always been very accepting of foods viewed as disgusting/bad tasting by others.

Also, as van said, the more you make a food artificially palatable, the less you'll know about how much you should actually eat. Sometimes even natural foods (such as bone marrow) can be so  palatable, that in my case, I need to eat them slowly in order to not overeat.

11
Personals / Re: Contacting Sv3rige
« on: May 19, 2018, 03:32:28 am »
Did the inuits eat fish bones in their traditional diet?

According to the following scientific paper, the calcium from fish bones is absorbed easily by the humans.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2916003/

Calcium from salmon and cod bone is well absorbed in young healthy men
I don't know, but I would assume they would eat the smaller bones of certain fish. I have read that they used larger bones for tools.

And how much grams of proteins are you consuming with 400 grams of fat?
Around 100-160 grams of protein a day.

12
Personals / Re: Contacting Sv3rige
« on: May 19, 2018, 03:16:47 am »
Regarding the bones:
Bones have an extremely high amount of calcium (highest of any food by far) in them, along with a high phosphorus content. The bone marrow within also has a high calcium content, containing as much as most dairy.

How much fat is being suggested on this diet?

I'd say you should follow your instincts and eat as much as you'd like. If you are trying to gain weight, you could try eating more, and if you are trying to lose weight, eating less fat. But only you know how much you should eat.

I personally eat anywhere from 200-400 grams of fat, not sure how that compares to everyone else.





13
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Raw brain buying concern?
« on: May 17, 2018, 10:23:52 pm »
The whole mercury-in-vaccines thing was a myth. Dr Wakefield did overdo things. For one thing the autism growth  myth is bogus.
Ok I take it vaccines are not a serious problem then, excellent.
Well, a relative of mine did lose their sense of smell and taste after getting vaccinated. I don't think I'd call that safe. I'm not saying it was mercury, but something in the vaccine caused it.
Not sure what it was for, might have been the flu vaccine.

Regarding brain, it's fine, as are all organs, as long as the animal is healthy. So grass-fed organic should be fine.

14
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« on: May 16, 2018, 08:16:31 pm »
I have access to fresh kills at our wet markets... yes it makes a big difference in taste, fresh is really the way to go.  Deeeeliccioussss is the word.

I once located my office beside my favorite wet market for a year and had access to fresh kill anything daily.

But then, there is the problem of availability if you do not have access to the "bestest" and freshest you will have to make do by refrigeration and freezing... thank the engineers and scientists for refrigeration technology.
I have access to the best quality beef and pork (the entire animal), along with all kinds of wild game. The problem with wild game so far is that I can only get muscle, so that's not a viable option for me. I always get meat fresh. Although I can personally leave it outside at room temperature to make either dry aged or fermented meat. The only organ or even any part of the animal I freeze is liver, and that is because I buy in bulk, and I prefer the taste of fresh liver rather than aged or fermented liver. It's also usually an issue of not enough space in refrigerator, since that is usually reserved for muscle and other organs. I might occasionally freeze some bone marrow, if I get a gigantic amount of it, as after three weeks or a month or so bone marrow starts to get a sticky texture that is not as good as when fresh (although it's obviously perfectly fine to eat).

I wouldn't say I personally taste a difference in frozen versus fresh liver. The only difference is the texture since I eat it semi-frozen. At least that's how it is for me.
"Semi-frozen"? What does that mean? Do you mean "chilled"? (ie stored at between 2 to 4 degrees Celsius).

No idea re others. AV did have a theory that freezing was 25% as bad as cooking but did not give any scientific data, as usual.
Definition of semi-frozen:
https://www.definitions.net/definition/semifrozen
I just don't let the meat thaw out completely when I eat it, that's all.

15
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« on: May 16, 2018, 04:59:29 pm »
I once read an online article about the effects of freezing on meats. Unfortunately, it is no longer available.The article was very scientific, pointing out how the enzymes in the frozen meat tend to become slightly denatured as a result.An RPDer on a previous forum claimed that all the enzymes in frozen meats are wholly destroyed after  c. 10 weeks of being frozen, though provided no scientific data. The article also mentioned that the formation of ice-crystals rips the cell-membranes open so that, once it starts thawing, the meat loses nutrients at a rapid rate.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221824503_Impact_of_freezing_and_thawing_on_the_quality_of_meat_Review

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/bit.10612
Since I eat the meat semi-frozen, the nutrient loss should not affect me. Slightly denatured enzymes are what I kind of expected, based on what I've read on freezing/thawing meat.

It's interesting how he mentions the enzymes are destroyed wholly after 10 weeks. It is a shame there isn't much information I could find from my search, although perhaps I have not been spent enough time researching it.

Thank you for your answer. You wouldn't by chance know of anyone else here or somewhere else, claiming that freezing does significant damage to the meat, would you?

16
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Frozen versus Fresh Meat
« on: May 16, 2018, 05:30:50 am »
Just wondering what everyone thinks about frozen meat versus fresh meat? I've seen people claiming it's worse, but have not been able to find any evidence for it. For reference, I eat mostly fresh, I've also eaten both dry aged and high (fermented) meat. I eat mostly my liver frozen (I buy in bulk so it's better because I can have more space in my refrigerator, I also prefer the texture, taste is about the same) and I sometimes freeze excess meat if it can't all fit into the fridge. I've no problem with putting the meat outside the fridge either (room temperature).

Without getting off topic, again I'd like to know what your opinion is and if there's any evidence to back it up. I haven't personally experienced a difference other than texture and what temperature the meat is at (I eat the meat semi-frozen to avoid thawing completely).

And to avoid confusion, by meat I mean the entire animal. All the organs, muscle and even blood.
Any difference to freezing fat compared to freezing lean meat compared to freezing blood, for example?

17
Thanks.

One question: I read one need at least 25 grams of organs per day.
My question is, what is the upper limit of the organs consumption?
And in my case, I have got hands only to high quality hearts (wild). I have no liver, no tongue or kidney etc. I have only wild heart and wild fat.
There is no upper limit on organ consumption. Eat as much as you'd like/can and you will be fine. If you have problems, you reduce the intake/don't eat it. If not, there is no reason to limit it to an arbitrary number. Some people have concerns about the vitamin A content of the liver, but I've never heard about anything bad about any other organ. I also eat liver every day, albeit at a lower volume (100-200 grams).

It's great that you have access to wild game hearts, although hearts are more of a mix between organ meats and muscle meat in terms of nutrition and taste. They have more micronutrients than muscle, but less than some other organs (liver, brain, bone marrow, kidneys, spleen etc...).
Wild fat is very nutritious (in general fat is).

18
And how to loose weight on the raw paleo diet?
Eat less carbohydrates and less calories, do not eat dairy, do intermittent fasting or fast for longer periods, reduce food palatability so you eat less. Although in general as long as your are not eating high carb and a massive amount of calories, you should be able to lose weight (if you are overweight) eating to satiation. Although that often depends on the person, some very easily gain weight and highly palatable foods make it much easier to gain weight. Nutrient dense foods (such as organ meats) are generally harder to eat much of, and therefore a better option to lose weight while eating enough vitamins/minerals. If you eat a larger amount of carbohydrates in a meal, you should also not eat fat in that same meal.

I would not recommend on losing weight if you are at a stable weight, and instead focus on your natural appetite. Another way to gain muscle and lose fat would be resistance training, although that would increase the amount of calories you would need to eat to build muscle (and protein, vitamins/minerals).

19
I eat fat and muscle separately, but daily I'd say about 500-600 grams of muscle, along with 100-200 grams of liver to 200-500 grams of marrow usually. I drink blood, but I don't know how much protein that has. I would say marrow and brain (not as fatty, mostly fat, but contains the largest amount of DHA/EPA other than fish roe) would be the best fat, since they contain the highest amount of micronutrients. Next would be eggs, the yolks are very nutritious and while not as good in specific vitamins/minerals compared to organ meats, they are better overall. Raw muscle and organ fat would then next, and after that probably plant fats. Raw plant fats can still be good as fats, but they lack the micronutrient content which makes things like brain and marrow great (along with other animal fats). The reason why dairy is not included in this list is because a lot of people have problems with it, but if you can tolerate it, it still has a good microunutrient profile.

The fat helps a lot with digestion, and is a great to get calories when your trying to gain weight/muscle.

20
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Trapped Gas
« on: May 11, 2018, 04:18:45 am »
I eat once a day as thats the only time i get the chance to. I work 60 hours a week so i have to unintentionally IF.

Ive been doing raw off and on for about a year. Usually every 3-4 months ill eat a cooked meal to see the difference in how I feel.

Im not as brain fogged, but im definitely lethargic on this woe
If you eat once a day, have you considered that you might be eating too much at once? I used to have problems eating once a day, but eating the same amount twice a day gave me no problems. Although I only experienced gas with lean meat, it is worth noting that overeating on fat will usually result in nausea. So it might be wise to try to find some more time, so you can at least eat twice a day. Assuming, of course, that's the problem.

High meat, chewing your meat more, ACV all might help with digestion if the above doesn't work.

21
How do you stay hydrated? Do you drink blood?
Sorry for the late reply, but yes, I do drink blood, daily. Although I still drink water since there isn't enough to just drink that. I try not to drink too much water to avoid problems (cramping, fatigue etc...).

22
How hard is it to gain weight eating only animal flesh or is it even possible at all? Is there anyone on the forum who gained a substantial amount of weight on zero carb?
I used to be underweight and gained back a lot of weight as a carnivore. I've found that eventually (if your underweight), your weight stabilizes and you stop gaining body fat for the most part. I've been able to gain more muscle once I started working out. But otherwise it seemed impossible to gain weight. So if you don't plan on doing some resistance training and eating as much as possible (obviously), you will most likely not gain weight if you are not underweight. This seems to be the experience for a lot of other people eating a carnivorous diet, consisting only of meat.

You can certainly build strength and muscle, but I am not sure how many (if any) have gained body fat, assuming they were not underweight and lacked and adequate amount.

Your body will have a stable weight (neither overweight or underweight) as long as you eat enough. If you want to gain a lot of mass, eat a lot and incorporate resistance training.

100 grams of fat has 900 calories, and there are plenty of sources of pure raw fat. Organ and muscle fat and especially bone marrow are the best sources of fat and could easily give you a 1000 or more calories in a single meal, even if that's all you eat. Eggs are a great source of calories, although not everyone is a fan of eggs. Any fatty cuts of muscle meat add more calories than they would if they were just lean, and there are some other parts like brain, tongue, belly etc... which contain higher amounts of fats. In general, focusing on fat for the calories and then the protein for the muscle building is optimal. Obviously macronutrients are not everything, but as long as you are eating organ meats and fat, you should be getting all the vitamins/minerals as well.

Personally, I just started doing resistance training and eating large amounts of bone marrow and enough protein. It worked for me.

23
Can you guys give me some further explanatory comment on risks of raw meat and ecoli etc.
I just got my grass fed meat confiscated by a family member behind my back.

Then make sure they can't confiscate your meat. It is difficult to convince anyone of anything, but after a few months of eating raw meat in front of everyone (and making sure they couldn't throw my meat away), they eventually realized I wasn't going to die. As Tyler already said, there are plenty of raw animal foods (dairy, eggs, meat) in restaurants. There are videos of plenty of people eating raw meat as well.

There are risks everywhere in life. Is there a 0.000001% that you will get sick? Perhaps, but by eating nutritious and non-inflammatory food you would also be much more resistant to any potential disease. Basically, in much better health overall.

24
There is a theory that parasites are natural, according to nurses who attended my blood-donations in the Austrian Army.The idea is that the human body naturally over-produces the amount of iron in the blood because it automatically anticipates that there are parasites present which would normally lower the amount of iron present. The idea being that, since parasites are no longer a problem for us in the present-day, that blood-donation reduces the amount of iron as a substitute.
While I can't say whether since my iron levels are not elevated at the moment, I would be under the impression that humans would certainly bleed more in nature, and would think that would make more of a difference for iron levels than parasites.

25
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: Typical Daily Dietary Intake of Members?
« on: January 26, 2018, 02:23:24 pm »
I've been eating carnivorous now for about a year, and I usually end up eating this:

0.5 to 1 lb of raw bone marrow (24-30 raw egg yolks if I can't get bone marrow, doesn't happen very often)
0.25 to 0.5 lb of raw liver
1 to 1.25 lb of raw muscle (I do not eat this if I'm eating egg yolks)
Occasionally any other organ.

I eat beef and lamb mostly, sometimes wild game.

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