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Messages - Qondrar_The_Redeemer

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Health / Re: Cancer - Solutions?
« on: July 07, 2018, 06:49:26 am »
It would be helpful to know exactly what Drugs they are claiming are not harmful?  along with whatever other drugs are being taken already?

Theres really nothing one can do if the person has blind trust in perscribed drug based treatments, but I am curious to know exactly what the Pharma Cabal is into these days, so as to help educate others who may be more open to viewing the orthodoxy of drugging everyone for everything with a healthy dose of scepticism.
When I said they aren't that harmful, I meant they aren't that harmful. Obviously they still have a long list of side effects, but the rates are supposedly much lower compared to other drugs, chemotherapy and surgery. Considering the alternatives, I am hopeful that is at least to some degree better. The drugs they are taking for this are hormone blockers, problem is those will affect both cancer and normal cells, although supposedly healthy cells shouldn't be affected as much, while the cancer cells themselves will struggle.

As for the other drugs, they are taking some drugs for high blood pressure and something else I don't know about.

Regarding the person themselves, they are a bit skeptical of any treatment (conventional and alternative), which is why they are going to do the least harmful conventional treatment (the drugs instead of surgery or chemotherapy, as they are supposedly less harmful), along with as many other alternative treatments I and some others have suggested. Regarding diet, they have actually been eating raw eggs at times, and even tried raw bone marrow once. They've also started eating some fish, albeit cooked. Along with cutting carbohydrates down pretty low, they are mostly eating vegetables, nuts and animal foods. This is combined with the other alternative treatments they are doing along with food, in combination with the drugs.

Personals / Re: Contacting Sv3rige
« on: July 07, 2018, 06:40:18 am »
Perhaps, my coconut butter habit is a mere idiosyncratic indulgence which does not have any tangible merit for most other people...or I may even have become physically addicted to the stuff having eaten over a pound a week for the last 8 years. Still I feel there is more to it than can be dismissed by the paradigm of it not being a truly raw food.

I have found that coconut butter doesn't have the overtly laxative effect like raw coconuts, so perhaps some of the enzymatic properties are diminished in the drying process, but that does not necessarily mean its a bad thing...just as how some people will soak or lightly roast nuts to diminish their anti nutrient property.

Coconut fat is one of the most stable of plant based fats and the butter I eat in no way has any hint of being rancid. Lauric acid a main component of coconut fat has a number of documented properties which boost the immune system and support overall healthy fat metabolism. I think I have some degree of physical dependance upon these medium chain fatty acids and experiments of eating more animal fats while cutting out all coconut seem to negatively effect my ability to optimally metabolise fat, though I havent gone into to much depth as to figure out why, because I typically do so well with the current fat ratio combination. 

Lauric acid is also found in large quantities in human breast milk, but since I haven't got a regular free range paleo supply of that, Im not sure about how to obtain quality sources other than coconut.

I would also state that I am really picky about coconuts and don't much like the ones available at the local markets. Every now and then a good shipment will come in and I have made good quality coconut cream in the past, but the cost, labor, and availability has made it so that I cant do it on any regular basis.

I also do not like most of the brands on the market and prefer Artisan Brand over most others. It is low temperature processed, is labeled raw and has a taste which is much fresher than others. All it is is dehydrated and blended coconut, and it taste almost exactly like the homemade coconut butter I made a few years ago, only its much less expensive and time consuming.
Personally, back when I was eating a cooked ketogenic diet, I found coconut butter to be better taste and texture wise than coconut oil. Albeit not as good as of the things I'm eating now and was eating, I would put it on par with regular pasteurized butter. Not really the best, although if you are getting better quality, that could be the reason why yours is better. I am not really convinced eating non-raw coconuts is a good idea (nor would I personally eat coconuts raw myself, as I get acne even from pure coconut fat/oil), although I will agree that it is the most stable plant fat and probably the best plant fat when consumed raw as well.

Regarding lauric acid, all dairy has it, including that of other animals, not just humans. It is interesting that while lauric acid supposedly helps with acne, both coconuts and dairy tend to give me some minor acne (very minor compared to before, but still). Given that humans should probably not be consuming dairy their entire lives, and that the certain plant fats containing lauric acid may not always have been available depending on the environment (and my own personal experience with both coconuts and dairy), I remain unconvinced of the benefits of it, although I am open to the idea that it may help someone, somewhere.

If you think it benefits you, then it might be a good idea, but how much experimenting have you done with it? Have you tried prolonged periods without it and then with it? And if you did, what did you notice?

General Discussion / Re: Alternative Uses for Animals
« on: July 07, 2018, 12:29:53 am »
Yes I do not have a good access to the food Ii would like to eat, and when I eat my guinea pigs, this is just so much work that I want to eat all! The skin is a big part ofr example. then the bones are small....

Also, I do need the colagen broth to help hydrate me with the use of the gelatine. This is the only animal product that is helpful for this,as plants offer more possibilities.
Xisca, what animals do you eat? I'm sure you could probably get better access if you look around, usually you will be surprised what you can find online, at farmers' markets, at farms, certain shops etc... For your guinea pigs, are the bones small enough to be eaten raw? Although I haven't tried skin myself, I would imagine that would be quite tough to eat raw...

Regarding hydration, I find raw eggs, the hemoglobin from organs and the myoglobin from muscle, along with blood to be quite hydrating.

Health / Re: Cancer - Solutions?
« on: July 07, 2018, 12:25:10 am »
Good news, the cancer isn't as bad as originally thought, and the doctors won't be doing chemotherapy or drugs. Instead they will be taking drugs (along with the ones they already take). Still, since I can't convince them of completely abandoning conventional treatment, I suppose this is better than the alternative (the drugs themselves supposedly aren't that harmful, but you never know).

Personals / Re: Contacting Sv3rige
« on: July 07, 2018, 12:07:39 am »
Its coconut butter
Any particular reason you eat coconut butter?

Health / Re: Cancer - Solutions?
« on: June 27, 2018, 10:45:59 pm »
Well if they haven't started medical treatment yet, there might be hope of success with using nutritional based therapies.

I generally advise against supplements, there are just too many complex variables to be able to make wise decisions in regards to what kind of supplement to use and how much to take. It just seems too arbitrary, artificial, and prone to human error.

Much of what is sold as vitamins are synthetic facsimiles....imposters of their natural food derived counterparts, which may or may not be of beneficial effect.

What specific supplements does this person take? Has these person been taking vitamins for a long period of time? even previous to the diagnosis? I have a theory that to many poor quality supplements taken without enough good quality foods can actually cause cancer.

In cases of cancer, too many synthetic vitamins may confuse and overwhelm a metabolic system that is already severely disordered. Fake B- vitamins are especially worrisome and could even feed cancer growths. Not eating whole wholesome and raw foods, while willy nilly popping supplements may not be as bad of an approach as taking standard cancer treatments, but in the long term is still a recepty for disaster.

Before the age of 30. I had endless health-problems of various kinds. I would try anything other than Breatharianism. I  took countless different supplements, from herbal supplements like gingko biloba to royal jelly, complicated multivitamin/multimineral supplements etc. None of them did any good, none of them removed the massive amount of inflammation in my body. Only a dairy-free rawpalaeodiet worked in that regard. I wasted so much money on such absurdities. Often, it's the simplest solutions that work and the more complicated ones tend to be failures.

Yes, I agree. Personally I've never benefited and actually has some side effects from taking supplements. But I don't think they will stop, and at least I think it's better than the crap they were eating/doing before.

I've also read the diagnosis, and while I can't be certain yet... It doesn't seem good, potentially terminal, I think (one good thing about this might be the fact that it can't be treated with surgery or chemotherapy). It seems there are a lot of malignant tumors potentially in their lungs. Anyone have any ideas for specifically lung treatment? Obviously more general ideas are welcome as well, I've been putting those to good use in their case.

Health / Re: Cancer - Solutions?
« on: June 26, 2018, 12:53:17 am »
Suggest you look into apricot kernels, for example there is a very interesting you tube video by a woman who had chemo and radiation without much success and then found apricot kernels worked, now she just has to live with the damage from the other treatments.
They are already eating apricot kernels, thanks for the advice.

One thing is to look closely at the habits of this person: diet and other, and try to detect what is really harmful and change that.
Semi-fasting could be beneficial, and with some specific greens, herbs etc could also help.
Dairy is really not to be advised, should be totally avoided.
Too much calories, or heavy food maybe not not optimal for recovery.
I've personally suggested that they eat a ketogenic, raw if possible, diet. They've reduced their carbohydrate intake quite significantly, although they are certainly not eating a ketogenic diet. They also cut out things like all sweets, grains, rice, beans, fruit... As they do not eat meat and don't eat that many eggs, they have to rely on butter for more animal fat (they are certainly eating a lot of plant fat). Overall, I'd say that they've done quite a lot actually compared to how they were before. They have not been eating that much either, and at least in the case of some more harmful foods this is certainly a good thing.

What exactly has been the medical course of treatment in this case?

To be brutally frank and honest, raw paleo will do little good to a person who is being butchered with surgery and poisoned with chemo and radiation.

Though adopting a raw paleo diet may offer a better chance of recovery than, those integrative medicine clinics that offer herbal, veggie , and vitamin supplements on top of their poisons...still even with an optimal nutrition program the poison will take its toll, and surgery will only cause the cancer to spread. Most of the positive effects of good nutrition will be entirely negated by the use of standard oncological genocidal practices!
There hasn't been any treatment as of yet. Although I am not optimistic as to what the doctors will recommend for treatment. I have seen many die of cancer after years or months of treatment in a hospital.

What is your view on supplements? I've recommended that they try and eat more nutritious food, but as they haven't been eating that much lately, they've been taking a lot vitamin/mineral supplements, which I don't recommend relying upon entirely.

General Discussion / Re: Alternative Uses for Animals
« on: June 26, 2018, 12:40:54 am »
Even when eating raw, i still cook what is of difficult access raw. So i boild the rest of the bones. i think logical that our ancester started to use fire for this reason: to get what is difficult to eat raw.

For the soil, I can assure you that you can put boiled bones. They will be colonised little by little by the organisms of the soil. Don't bother with making meal, just add the bones to the compost, and then when you have your compost, you leave the bones for the nexxt compost, and they will be full of bactirias for helping start the next batch.
While in a survival situation I'm certain that could be useful, I do not personally intend to eat things cooked which I cannot eat raw. Nor do I intend to eat any cooked food at all, as over time I've come to the conclusion that I should only be eating what I do best on and not eat something that will give me problems later on. If that works for you, then great.

As for the soil, I'll see what I'll do. Thanks for the advice.

Marrow is delicious, especially if you indulge and mix it with some garlic and butter. I will never turn away form a good bone-in ribeye, however...
While I only one particular food for an entire meal (so no garlic and butter along with bone marrow), yes, bone marrow is delicious. As I've already stated, I consume more bone marrow than I do any other organ or muscle.

Health / Re: Cancer - Solutions?
« on: June 19, 2018, 09:34:49 pm »
It seems as if the cancer has spread across their body, including their lungs. It might be more severe than was originally suspected. Any more advice would be great, they seem to be struggling with my help and advice so far.

I  have always found the taste of raw kidneys, however aged, to taste far better than the equivalent in raw aged, liver, however aged.
Do you find liver to be stronger tasting than kidney? I find kidneys to be pretty mild compared to liver, and since I find liver to be very sweet along with its unique liver taste, I think I've probably been spoiled by too much liver, because of which I don't find kidneys as appealing anymore.

Personally, I really, really enjoy the taste of raw kidneys  once they were aged. Once aged, they tasted like urea, when fresh, they tasted marvellous....
Like I said, it's not that they taste bad, but they have this exotic taste which is just inferior to liver in my opinion. Which makes it more difficult to eat, since I'm eating it alongside the better tasting liver. How long did it take for you to get used to kidneys? And how many do you eat over a longer period of time?

I found the taste of aged kidneys to be good, but for some reason even more off-putting. Just not as good as aged liver. In both cases I prefer fresh, however.

General Discussion / Re: Alternative Uses for Animals
« on: June 19, 2018, 03:25:16 am »
If only I could have had the same experience re raw marrow in the UK. Maybe I am becoming too lazy...
Well, granted, I had to do quite a lot of searching to get a steady supply of large amounts of organs, including bone marrow. Bone marrow especially, as I eat potentially about 20lb/10kg of marrow bones a week. Perhaps more, depends on how much marrow is in the bone.

You do live in Austria right now, correct? I found the marrow bones I needed both online and from a local farm. I've also searched plenty of farmers' markets and other online companies and farms. I also heard that you really like the creamy marrow? I actually seem to be getting pretty lucky in that regard, as not only does the marrow taste great, but most of the marrow I get is soft, creamy, bloody kind, and I never even asked for it. Although this could be also be due to the quality of the animals, I am unsure. As when I used to buy grain-fed marrow, 99% of it was the dry and crumbly type.

Has anyone ever noticed an uncomfortable taste while eating kidneys? It's very difficult to describe, as it tastes good (like some sort of sweet I used to eat), yet at the same time it just doesn't feel right. Perhaps a bit of an aftertaste. I've noticed this with all kidneys from different animals. It's not bad, but it isn't something I would like to eat. It's almost as if it is neither enjoyable nor bad. Because of this reason I haven't been eating that many kidneys lately, as bone marrow and liver are better in my opinion, which I eat regularly. I eat other organs as well, but kidney is the only one so far which just feels weird. Again, what's weird is that it actually tastes good, but it has this exotic taste/smell that I just can't get used to. It's almost as if I was trying to eat something that tastes good like cake (just for comparison, obviously I don't eat that), but yet at the same time it always feels too different to be actually enjoyable. Perhaps I simply have been eating too much liver and therefore don't like the taste of the milder kidneys?
I tend to eat liver and kidneys together, and I always look forward to the liver a lot more than I do to the kidneys.

Complicated. I have been considering buying a Livin Farms product that effortlessly breeds and rebreeds mealworms/insects from a type of beetle. Yet, when I first experimented with rawpalaeo-aging, I did not mind(I was desperate at the time) with eating raw grassfed ox tongue, laced with fly-eggs all over, but I could not eat the stuff once the eggs turned into larvae/mealworms, due to disgust.Maybe, with proper nutrition and a cure for my silly hysteria re insects  - after all, in another later experiment, my larvae had been given woodchips to feed upon first, which no doubt made things worse. I did another experiment with cooked grasshoppers, and, while they tasted of nothing(ie bland(, and they did not evoke a pysychological distaste.

The raw wild hare blood tastes truly awesome - it's impossible to describe the  almost-religious-like-experience/drug-like high until you've had it yourself in sufficient amounts - whereas the raw blood I got from raw 100% grassfed ox,  or other sources, had no such effect whatsoever, by comparison - raw blood from grainfed sources tastes even fouler than that. Make sure, if you get raw wild game, to get it vacuum-packed or in a whole carcass freshly killed, or you will never get that same kind of experience. it is a truly  powerful feeling, really invigorating,

Raw eggs? I once ate a raw ostrich egg from the 1st Wholefoods(aka "wholepaycheck") in the UK. It was an unpleasant gimmick, the raw ostrich egg tasted awfully bland and obviously came from an ostrich fed on a 100% grain-filled diet in intensively-farmed conditions. Do what some of our more learned/more driven members do, if you can. such as Iguana/Sabertooth/Eveheart etc.etc., and try to drive to the farm and ascertain what nutrition any domesticated(formerly wild) animals of theirs actually get.The best would be, if you had your own backyard/farm, and had some chickens  etc. of your own to raise your eggs.

Lastly, when it comes to raw eggs from supermarkets, I have noticed that the raw quail eggs do taste way better than the raw chicken eggs. I suspect better nutrition in the former as a result, but feel free to make your own experimentations. Taste, ONCE you have been 90-100% RPD-Instincto for a year or more, is the key to determining the real quality of the raw food.
I already use taste, smell and how it looks to determine the quality of the meat I buy. I wouldn't say it takes a year to notice the difference, I noticed the difference immediately after I switched from grain-fed to grass-fed/organic/pastured/wild game etc.., and I notice a difference even between different animals from the same farm, or from different parts of the same animal. Obviously soil quality and other factors will determine what the animal will taste like and how nutritious it will be. I've personally had some great chicken eggs in the past, while also getting foul tasting ones from supposedly high quality sources. I would assume anything from truly wild animals would taste even better.

Interesting about the wild hare blood. I've had some truly great meat/blood from the farm I currently visit and wild game (I've only gotten muscle from wild game in the past) that tasted like candy, but perhaps I could find something that would be similar to your experience with wild hare blood.

General Discussion / Re: Alternative Uses for Animals
« on: June 19, 2018, 02:22:52 am »
Can't you find some solution to speed up the digestion of raw bones by bacteria/soil/worms? How about using smaller bones from animals such as chickens/mice etc.?
It's not that I specifically want to buy bones to use as fertilizer, I simply want to have a use for the beef marrow bones. I eat large amounts of bone marrow every day, from beef as that is available in the largest amounts. Because of this, I end up with a lot of bones that I just throw away.

Judging from other RVAFers' reports, eggs from (non-inbred) chickens which have been raised on mostly carnivorous diets akin to their wild jungle fowl ancestors, tend to taste the best and are more nutritious.

My problem is that I can get hold raw wild game easily except from May-September(other than raw wildcaught seafood), but I am unable to get hold of most of the raw organ-meats, except occasionally. Getting a hunter's licence is way too expensive, and even just killing an animal costs a hefty bit extra. I can get hold of a variety of raw organ meats from standard domesticated animals like pigs/cows, but, admittedly, the quality is a lot "less worse" than in the rest of Europe as Austria has higher standards than the other intensively-farmed countries.

In the UK, I used to get hold of raw wild hares in vacuum-packed form., without the intestines. I would get a pint of raw blood that was the most invigorating substance I had ever consumed, along with raw meat that was itself also drenched with raw blood for better taste. I would also get the tiny organs such as raw heart, raw liver etc. I found raw swordfish, raw oysters, raw crabs, raw lobster, and raw mussels to be the best raw seafood.Just take care to leach out all the saltwater from the mussels first, beforehand. Re muscle-meat:- I highly recommend raw wild boar and raw wild moufflon.
Hmm, yes. What would be your opinion on something like an ostrich egg, and from other wild game?

Thanks for the suggestion regarding wild boar and wild moufflon, I can get both of those where I am currently. Also, regarding the wild hare blood, how would you say it tasted compared to blood from domesticated animals (grass-fed and then grain-fed?)?

And what would be your thoughts on tiny lizards and insects? Surely those are legal to kill.

General Discussion / Re: Alternative Uses for Animals
« on: June 18, 2018, 11:46:24 pm »
I can't see how cooked bone could be useful for the soil, let alone as food. You'd just be poisoning the worms etc.

Perhaps you could just grind up raw egg-shells?
I didn't think of using egg-shells as fertilizer, thanks for the suggestion. I do still want to potentially find a use for all my leftover bones, perhaps I could make raw bone meal. I am unsure how I would go about doing that without spending a significant amount of time on it, however.

General Discussion / Re: Alternative Uses for Animals
« on: June 18, 2018, 10:52:03 pm »
I know someone who needs fertilizer for his farm, so I think I could potentially use the leftover bones that way. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I would be able to make bone meal? I could technically cook it since it's for fertilizing the soil, but do you think it could be left raw? And would there be any benefit if it were raw as opposed to cooked, since it would only be used for the soil and not as food?

I was wondering what everyone here thinks would be the best animals for nutrition in eggs, dairy, muscle, organs, fat... and taste in eggs, dairy, muscle, organs and fat. I would certainly be interested in hearing about different wild game alongside domesticated animals, and some more exotic animals, for example. I've seen meat from different animals such as your standard beef, sheep, pork and poultry, along with deer, elk, bear, wild boar, wolf, duck, crocodile, camel, shark, swordfish, snake etc... Would be interested in hearing how nutritious they may be, and how they taste, assuming you've tried them yourselves.

Health / Re: Cancer - Solutions?
« on: June 18, 2018, 10:34:37 pm »
One of the trick for regular people is to make green smoothie and add raw liver to it.  That way they do not get most of the taste and none of the texture.

And of course eliminate sugar, grains, alcohol, packaged food, etc.

Yes, unfortunately I do not think they will be eating meat for ethical/moral reasons. They did eat some raw eggs mixed with some sugar and wine. And they are indeed eating less grains, packaged food and sugar, although they still can't seem to be able to stop quite yet.

It also seems as if they have breast cancer, and not in fact lung cancer, although the extent remains to be seen. Good news?

General Discussion / Re: Parasites Worms in our intestines
« on: June 13, 2018, 11:00:59 am »

I dont eat cooked now because raw digests better for me snd I feel less digestive effort.. sleep better.

Just recently started getting scared of those worms that can manifest..

I would love to see more posts proving they are harmless and have nothing to do with raw meat bro
Raulik, you should not be so paranoid. There is no definitive answer anyone can give you, other than their own experience and a few studies. Even if you cooked your meat, most people get sick from cooked, not raw animals, albeit they were either sick themselves or improperly stored/cross-contaminated. Parasites are usually very visible, and most farmers deworm their animals in developed nations. There are also a lot of parasites that don't have an effect, or have a beneficial one.

In the year I've been eating only raw meat (by that I mean the entire animal, all the organs, fat and muscle), I've been the only one that hasn't gotten food poisoning. Everyone close around me has gotten it once or more times, and they were eating processed/cooked/bad quality etc... food. In the end, this kind of thinking will only drive you insane, as you can't completely avoid parasites no matter whether you cook your food or not.

Health / Re: Cancer - Solutions?
« on: June 13, 2018, 10:48:35 am »
I have helped and cured people with cancer.
I confidently know what it is and how it is cured.
The question is does the patient get to me with spare time enough.
I can give you my solutions here when I have the time and if you are truly interested and ask here.
We can discuss your specific case.
Why, yes, I am very interested indeed.

It depends on what stage it is at.
It depends if this person wants to change his/her life style or not.  Many people will choose to be sick rather than change their old habits.

To cure cancer first thing you need to do is find out the cause. Then eliminate the cause. And last thing fix the immune system so the body can heal itself.

Fixing immune system is a complex process where diet is just one of the components.  If a person has any kind of chronic stress - physical, emotional, chemical, or thermal, no diet will help much.

For example if this person is a smoker he/she needs to quit smoking (most likely primary cause of this cancer), get rid of any chronic stress, cut out consumption of all depressants and stimulants, stop eating all foods that depress immune system (sugar, grain, etc.) and start eating natural diet of nutrient rich food.

I realize this, yes, and I have already suggested it. I am however trying to find some more specific methods as well, in case they are not ready for a complete change, and to help speed along the process of healing, if possible. And just so you know, the person is not a smoker, but their diet is a standard diet. I think you know what I mean by that. They take some pharmaceutical drug and while I cannot say how stressed they are exactly, they are not certainly not the most calm of individuals.

There are also concentrated curcumin tablets which apparently help against cancer. You have to do some research to find out the right ones. I trust the mercola-approved one, myself.
I will check them out, thank you.

The vomiting reflex is mostly due to social conditioning and the fact that raw animal foods have much higher taste than cooked animal foods.Try them on socially-acceptable raw animal foods first such as sushi/sashimi, beef tartare and raw cheeses.Another alternative, as espoused by Aajonus, is to start lightly cooking their animal foods, and then, every so often over days/weeks/months, gradually reducing the cooking-temperature by 1 or more degrees until, eventually, they can eat the raw meat at room-temperature.
I'll keep that in mind and see what I can do.

Health / Re: Cancer - Solutions?
« on: June 10, 2018, 10:17:02 pm »
The trick is to get them to accept that eating raw meat is socially acceptable. So, East Asians would likely be the easiest to convince since much of their cuisine involves raw seafood etc. For a  Westerner, inviting them to eat sashimi at a sashimi restaurant, beef tartare at a grand restaurant, raw , aged herring in Scandinavia , eating raw aged cheese from France etc. would help. Knowing that they can eat raw animal food dishes in public without seeming odd/weird can help improve their diet.
I don't think they care as much as about being socially acceptable, as they do with disgust. They seem open to the idea of eating it, but they just can't do it, claiming that it's just too disgusting/repulsive and they are unsure if they could eat it without vomiting/being ill.

General Discussion / Re: Parasites Worms in our intestines
« on: June 10, 2018, 10:13:12 pm »
Honestly, if you are afraid of parasites, then you shouldn't even be eating or drinking. Everyone I see around me that has/had parasites eats/ate a very unhealthy diet. I also have not seen a single parasite in beef/sheep/wild game, not in the organs, not in the fat, not in the muscle. Even if there were parasites, a lot of the time they die as they aren't adapted to humans, do nothing or are beneficial. There are some cases where they can be harmful, but it is grossly overstated in modern times.

Here are some articles and studies to why parasites might be linked to more unhealthy animals (including humans), and why they can be beneficial as well.






If you have some parasites you need to get rid of you can use herbs/alternative methods and drugs if need be.

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