Wouldn’t it be appropriate to say that raw paleo diet is a counter-experiment? About 10,000 years ago the human kind launched itself in a vast experiment (which is running away out of control) by systematically cooking food, drinking animal milk and adopting cereal grains as a staple. This is the real experiment, something that had never been done by any species during billions years of life on Earth.

On the other hand, the zero carb diet is a real experiment too since it’s something that had never been done by anyone in his right mind, as Phil rightly said. It’s not paleo, it’s an ideology which has nothing to do with a paleo diet. 

Arctic tribes have been on low-carb, not on zero carb — but your post implicitly agrees with that.

You're insisting that zero carb is an experiment done by only those not in the right frame of mind and unheard of. Well, you thinking 10 grams of carbohydrates in the form of berries or from other sources per day is enough to significantly keep the Inuit anymore healthier doesn't seem quite logical. Also, ten grams of carbohydrate is not enough to stop production of ketones.

Do you mean anthropoids are not our ancestors?

No, I'm saying it is possible that one of the reasons for megafauna extinction was because we hunted them all.

Stefansson didn’t live 9 years exclusively on meat. His documented experiment lasted a year only and when living alongside Inuit, the quote below says “Inuit would often go 6 to 9 months a year eating nothing but meat and fish”, their overall diet being 90% meat (sea mammals) and fish, which is quite different of a 100% beef and bison diet.

Either way he still thrived on a majority of meat and fat for 9 years. I don't think the amount of berries he had eaten in the summer had anything to do with maintaining health. Aren't wild berries known to be low in sugars? One hundred grams of wild blueberries (alaska native) only contains about 10 grams of carbohydrate. I doubt he was eating much more than this which means he was still maintaining a ketogenic state. Also keep in mind the experiment at Bellevue Hospital when he had eaten nothing but meat for one whole year did not contain seafood. He was perfectly healthy at the end of the experiment.

The macronutrient make up of land mammal vs sea mammal meat is very different for sure. I try my best to incorporate any missing minerals and vitamins I would get from fish into my diet because of it. This is why I supplement Iodine year long and Vitamin D in the winter. The majority of difference comes from the high Omega 3 levels from a diet consisting of mostly seafood. So far I have not had any of the known symptoms of Omega 3 deficiency. In the future I may start trying to incorporate some more seafood if need be.

I appreciate the fact that you’re willing to serve as guinea pig to the benefit of humanity. That’s courageous, really! I hope you will still keep us informed in the long run.

I feel really good eating this way and will continue doing so until problems do arise. I will keep the forum informed in the long run for sure.

I find such counting and planning highly weird because I have absolutely no idea how much protein, fat and carbohydrates I've ever eaten in my life and I don’t care. I doubt our healthy  ancestors of a million years ago would know or care, either!

I only do this because I have to keep track of my body fat %. Counting calories helps me figure out how much of a caloric deficit I need to be in to lose body fat, how many calories needed to bring my weight back up to a certain level or maintain my current weight. And of course to stay in ketosis as I find it beneficial.

 

Cheers

How much protein do you eat a day? You eat zero carb, so your liver has to synthesize glucose from protein. Doesn’t that mean you have to eat quite a bit protein?

I eat about 110-120g of protein per day. I raised it recently because I've been working out more. Before I started working out harder I was at about 80-85g of protein per day. I could probably get through the day while being sedentary at 70g of protein. I've lowered my fat intake considerably as I was taking in too many calories. At one point I was eating around 270g of fat and 70g of protein while trying to go to the gym. Getting a good work out was hard until I figured out I needed more protein to repair my muscles. I slowly decreased my fat intake and upped my protein intake and right now my macronutrients are:

110-120g Protein
200g Fat
Around 2260 Calories

My body has become stronger and fitter too since I have increased my intake of mammal meat.

That is good to hear

However, fish is still the best doping for my brain. Moreover, I cannot imagine that meat could replace vegetables or watery fruits for me (maybe seafood could, for a while), although I guess that animal fats (including fatty fish and a lot of bone marrow) could replace my plant fats such as nuts.

Saturated fats are my preferred fuel. I don't do well on a lot of polyunsaturated fats for energy. I was ordering bone marrow for a while in the beginning of the diet but decided to switch over to beef or bison fat. Right now I don't have to worry about ordering extra fat as I am eating high fat ground beef mixed with organs.

Yes, but the anthropoids had to develop hunting tactics and weapons to be able to kill big animals without putting themselves in too much danger.

Hence maybe one of the main reasons why we are still here and they are extinct?

Almost at that time, they mastered the fire too and probably started to grill meat. Most of us should therefore be more or less adapted to grilled meat, but this is rather doubtful.

Obviously we are not adapted to cooked meat. So this would make me think fire was mostly used for hunting advantage, protection, visibility and warmth.

Likewise, it’s likely that we are not perfectly adapted to a long-lasting everyday consumption of mammals’ meat. It’s what experience shows.

Stefansson lived 9 years on meat without any health problems. The Inuit lived their whole lives eating mammal's meat everyday.

We’ll see when some zero carbers have done it during a few decades. Once again, the troubles haven’t happened immediately, but after several years only.   

Yes, we will see.

I absolutely agree that too much animal protein is toxic. I've made myself sick a few times overdoing it. There hasn't been any recorded advantage of consuming more than 0.64g/lb of protein. There are studies that show protein oxidizing at intakes (basically a nutrient overload) a little bit over 1g/lb of protein.

Some anti nutrients may be beneficial in small amounts, I get it but at which dose do they start having negative effects? This is of course a very complex question. It seems most of these benefits that come from anti nutrients and fiber benefit those with medical problems that are most likely caused by the SAD, no? How do these beneficial factors of anti nutrients and fibers fit into a diet like mine? Well, I don't feel the need to eat anything other than meat/fat.
Are these alimentary instincts based on foods you crave as well?
It seems the only time I crave something sweet is if I'm unable to get in some good exercise. After exercising the craving completely diminishes. The same thing happens for most people and it has to do with the increased serotonin production/release from exercise. Eating a bowl of cherries or pasta has been known to have a similar affect on serotonin. I'd rather choose exercise.

I sure have, and that accounts for how well I feel. Joint inflammation is a great warning for me that a food is not right.

Joint inflammation comes around if I start eating anything from the nightshade family or food high in phytic acid.

Tyler:

The water beneath their feet? You mean, the ice above the ground! Err, fish do not generally enjoy swimming in glaciers and the like.  To answer your question, to have access they would have needed to be near a river to get freshwater(not seawater) fish, which is no guarantee. Migrating tribes would have rather relied on pemmican and similiar foods, judging from sources, in order to sustain themselves rather than eating  seafood.

Just like Inger said, seafood from lakes and rivers also contain Iodine.
Iodine is also abundant in polar atmospheres. Didn't the Arctic Tribes melt ice and snow for water as well?

Check this out:

'The volatilisation of iodine from the ocean and release to the atmosphere in the ice-covered polar regions has been studied. Laboratory experiments involving sea ice- and ice associated- diatoms have shown how the extreme conditions experienced in sea ice brine channels may lead to an increase in production of organic forms of iodine. Trends were observed in production by different classes of enzymes, active in the oxidative metabolism of the cell. An enhancement in trace gas concentrations due to the concentration effect of solvent volume reduction has also been demonstrated. Field campaigns have been undertaken in both the Arctic and Antarctic. Ship-based measurements in the Weddell Sea have implicated I2 as a key species in the mechanism of enhancement of atmospheric iodine in this region. Organic and inorganic forms of iodine were measured in seawater, sea ice and the atmosphere. On the Brunt ice shelf, enhanced concentrations of CH3I and C2H5I were measured in the snow firn air, with a diurnal profile, suggesting the snow may be a source of these compounds. These measurements have implications for atmospheric mixing ratios of IO, measured from the ship and validated by satellite data, and new particle formation. This is the first combined in situ study in Antarctica of organic and inorganic iodine compounds in sea water, ice and air. On the Western Antarctic Peninsula, IO was detected in the atmosphere, and seawater measurements of iodocarbons have demonstrated how organic compounds of iodine are enhanced during the phytoplankton bloom; these measurements are also a first. Iodine emissions in the sea ice zone were also quantified in two campaigns in the Arctic environment. High concentrations of halocarbons were measured in the brine of sea ice, with respect to the water below, in the Arctic Ocean. High atmospheric halocarbon mixing ratios and flux calculations have demonstrated the effect on the atmosphere above. In the Canadian sub-Arctic, where the ice had quite different physical properties, halocarbon concentrations were the highest ever recorded for some compounds, due to extreme concentration in very cold ice. The enhancement of organic forms of iodine in sea ice has therefore been demonstrated. I2 has been implicated as a key species in iodine emissions. Therefore, understanding has been furthered on the chemistry of iodine in sea ice and polar atmosphere. - See more at: http://ethos.bl.uk/OrderDetails.do?uin=uk.bl.ethos.569386#sthash.zHE4xS55.dpuf'

It seems Iodine is plentiful in polar regions.
---------------

I did suffer when I transitioned to a wholly  RZC diet around that time, but I started then actually getting some initial health benefits, even over what I got from an RVLC diet, such as increased alertness, before, after c 3 weeks into RZC, starting to suffer from worse and worse health problems until I had to give  RZC up

I'm not toting Iodine as a cure all as most likely other factors could have been involved with you not being successful on your RZC journey. Maybe you weren't getting enough fat solubles? Vitamin D? Vitamin A? I don't know..

I also trust people like  Lex or Wodgina or Ioanna who seem to do just fine minus any iodine supplementation. Now, maybe  those successful on RZC have larger livers or better thyroid functions than people like me, who knows? At any rate, such claims are way less bizarre than this peddling of harmful  "resistant starch".

Less bizarre, but still bizarre? Lol, Tyler...  I'm not familiar with the way Wodgina or Ioanna go about their diets. They are completely RZC? I know Lex was having some problems initially with the diet and he mentioned that he had low Vitamin D levels and laying out in the sun helped him with his teeth.  Personally, I've noticed after getting more sun I had a dramatic increase in exercise tolerance on this diet.

Eveheart:

24isours, I have skimmed your journal to try to put your success into perspective, and I have followed Dr. Brownstein's recommendations myself.

While my VLC raw paleo makes me feel great (mental clarity, low inflammation, excellent blood sugar levels, etc.), my blood work in the auto-immune department (thyroid and other involvement) remains the same: I have not improved my glandular function, and I still test positive for antibodies).

At one point I started noticing I was actually becoming hyperthyroid from such a large dose of Iodine. At time I'd have symptoms of hypothyroid as well. It wasn't until I lowered my dose down to single digit milligram levels I started feeling better. I would think that taking Iodine at such a high dose while following a RPD (assuming it contains enough glandular supportive nutrients) can actually cause problems. There have been several studies of long term high dose Iodine supplementation causing all sorts of problems for people, including autoimmune issues. Are you taking a high dose? If so, maybe this could be keeping you from seeing improvements? How is your Vitamin D level?

Do you have any personal blood-test evidence that shows improvement that would be attributed to Brownstein's protocol and not to elimination of dairy, gluten, etc?

Regarding gluten and dairy, I know they both can really take a toll on thyroid function. Eliminating both surely did improve my health but I was still having problems. It wasn't until I started RZC when I noticed the greatest improvement in health. I began eliminating dairy and gluten about the same time I started the Iodine protocol. During the Iodine protocol I did a lot of experimenting with my diet/lifestyle and eventually came to conclusion that supplementing was causing me problems. It seemed the longer I had taken the Iodine while improving my Vitamin A and D levels the less I needed. Maybe the improvements weren't caused by the Iodine at all, I don't know. Research indicates most of us are deficient in the mineral and it is proven to help keep the thyroid in working order and the body cleansed of heavy metals, toxins, radiation, etc.. I guess if I stop supplementing Iodine and start noticing changes in my health I would know if it had a significant impact on my health gains but I don't think I'd want to ..

I do not have any blood tests. I actually haven't gotten any blood tests since starting RZC.

I'm not telling anyone what to do or what to supplement with, or at least I don't mean to. If I come across that way I do apologize but I'm just sharing what is currently working for me and hope it can help others in some way. Thank you all for the discussion and it is great to be a part of this forum.

Iodine levels from the Raw ZC practitioners... how did you get your iodine levels raised to a good enough level?  Sea food?  Iodine supplements?  Any tests we can do?

I started supplementing Iodide at 50mg for the first few years. As I tweaked my diet and started getting adequate companion nutrients I noticed I needed less and less. I would think for RPDieters a good dose to start at would be around the lowest recommended dose which is around 6.5mg. You should also look into Dr. Brownstein's Iodine research.  I personally stick with IODIDE supplements and not elemental IODINE as Iodide is sourced from food. Some doctors claim that you need both Iodide and Iodine because certain tissues/glands require the elemental version (Iodine) over Iodide but it has been proven that the body can convert Iodide to Iodine when needed.

Here are some useful links:

http://www.oasisadvancedwellness.com/learning/iodine-fulfillment-therapy.html
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-10/IOD_10.htm

It is indeed, maybe iodine enables one to do better on a mostly ketogenic diet, but the Eskimos were an extreme society that it would be difficult to emulate elsewhere, so even with iodine, it's probably a risky approach.

I've noticed that raw vegans and fruitarians tend to report many of the same symptoms as VLCers / VLC Paleo dieters, such as worsening cold tolerance, and one common tendency is low intake of resistant starch. Wish I had known about RS long ago. I think I would have seen the connection quickly and more quickly realized that there was something seriously wrong with VLC and all diets with low intakes of RS.

I had found that increasing my fat intake temporarily helped to make me feel warmer, but then it declined again. Unfortunately, by increasing my fat intake, I lowered my carb intake even more. It was RS I was missing, not eating fat. It seems that getting fat from one's own bacteria helps warm the body more throughout the day than just eating lots of fat at meals.

I'm sure raw vegans and fruitarians are deficient in quite a few minerals and vitamins and not just Iodine. By the way, starch functions just like carbohydrates when it comes to speeding up thyroid hormone production. I'm sure you know where this is headed...

Risky? Well, it hasn't seemed risky so far but if and when I start to notice any sign of my health deteriorating I'll have to make some changes.

I think our brain needs Iodine to be able to use ketones well so an Iodine deficient person would have issues with a ketotic diet.

Iodine is found in every cell and gland in the human body. It would seem nonsensical to assume Iodine wouldn't play a part in the ketone metabolic process. 

'Your thyroid gland produces two main hormones, thyroxine and triiodothyronine, that influence every cell in your body. They maintain the rate at which your body uses fats and carbohydrates, help control your body temperature, influence your heart rate and help regulate the production of protein. Your thyroid gland also produces calcitonin, a hormone that helps regulate the amount of calcium in your blood.'

That sort of thing did not work for me at all.

Maybe you just didn't give your body enough time to adapt?