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Messages - Satya

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I was vlc from 2009 onward.  Got health problems in 2014, which may have been triggered from other sources too, but they were consistent with other vlcers' symptoms of food allergies, dry eyes and some others I have since forgotten.  That said, I do fine low carb.  Carbs on higher carb days are under 100 grams, probably 80ish?  25-50 other days.  So not a huge difference, really.

Ace is great, HoneyBadger!  Ok, what I do is eat fruit at night with the last meal, and/or veg like beets and carrots.  Nuts on salads are good too.  Dairy is an option too if that works for you.  So, for instance, I may have melon, berries or tropical fruits like papaya and mango.  Maybe in some raw milk kefir, coconut or almond cream.  This I do twice a week before heavy lifting days.  I work back and legs together 2x a week right now, and it is before those days that I do this.  I may slide out of ketosis for a few hours sometimes, but I get right back in after this workout every time.  ;)

Of course, there is a lot of science that supports a post workout meal of proteins and carbs for muscle protein synthesis, but I tend to not follow this.  <-- This is not proven (see link below), but it gets talked about a lot.  Protein post workout has been shown to increase muscle protein synthesis, but carbs too is inconclusive, apparently.  What I do is I get glycogen stores filled before the workout, and then I go right back into ketosis (if I ever left it) and follow the workout with eggs, fish, meat and/or whey protein in almond milk.  And I eat some salads too as inclined, but that is it.

The thing I find about not eating enough carbs to fuel strength training and other anaerobic pursuits is that I will end up using protein (and to some extent other sources) to create glucose (gluconeogenesis) to fuel these sorts of pursuits, which can mean I end up needing a ton of protein to 1) meet energy demands, and 2) grow muscle.  As a martial artist I saw this first hand going vlc.  I actually was not as lean on all animals foods with some herbs until I really upped the protein and/or added more plant foods in cyclically.  And I also had to reduce HIIT and do more steady state low intensity cardio or I was in a catabolic state.  Dairy is on again off again, but if you tolerate it, it can be a good source of some animal carbs, as are shellfish like clams and oysters and organs like liver.  My leanest in the last decade was when I was vlc eating lots of seafoods and grassfed ruminant meats and organs.  But then I ended up with health problems going too low carb too many years, so I had to back off of that plan as a long term solution.  Having a beet red face for several weeks due to developing food allergies is not worth it for me.  YMMV, of course.  And it's not like you have to eat one certain way forever either.  You can try one thing and see how it goes towards your goal.  And in this case, temporarily tracking can help you to see what is working for you ... so long as you don't become too obsessive about it.  Knowledge is good, but micromanaging every morsel is not healthy imo.

Hi HoneyBadger.  Been tied up with some family summer fun, so I am a bit late in replying.  What I do in terms of carb cycling is I eat more in the way of fruit or starchy veg on the evening prior to lifting (depending on what kind of split I am doing).  I probably eat between 20-50g carbs most days, and then maybe as high as 75-85g before lifting, so not a huge difference.  But I do find the increase in carbs the day before lifting heavy does give me more energy to complete the workout.  Lifting is anaerobic after all.  I was too low carb too long and suffered adult onset food allergies a few years ago.  Hives, not just intolerance.  This coincided with a long vlc stint of 5 years.  So I am simply not going to go too low carb anymore, as it was problematic for me.

Like you, I eat twice a day mostly, yet I am highly active.  I find this suits me, although I do eat 3 meals sometimes if I am lifting in the morning.  I usually workout totally fasted, but I may have something high protein right after that.  I am not 100% raw right now, btw, but I do thrive on a high raw plan and have for years.  I play racquetball, run and perform martial arts in addition to lifting 3-4 days a week.

In terms of ketosis and activity, I have found that the level of activity I have does influence ketones spilled into urine as much or moreso than food choices.

Disclaimer: I am an ACSM CPT with over 20 years experience, and while I do not give advice for free over the interwebs, I do have some experience to share.  In terms of getting my clients or myself lean, I find that creating a small calorie deficit, building a good base of muscle and ensuring adequate protein seems to be the ticket generally for getting lean - which means maintaining or even increasing lean body tissues while at the same time losing fat.  Most of my clients over the years have been women.  But I generally train people for health, not for competitions.  I'm sure you are aware that women can end up with hormonal imbalances that can cascade to a whole list of problems when achieving too low a body fat - which is also a somewhat individual thing.  So while you may have a goal in mind, I would hope you would pay attention to your health as your body composition changes and back off if/when you notice any adverse symptoms.

I think the advice that many have offered to find what works for you personally is so important.  And to not micromanage, like Sabertooth says.

Hi.  I am wondering why you would want to go lower in body fat.  Seems like you are already pretty lean.

In any case, along with what Eric and Eveheart have suggested, I find for me I am fine lifting and performing martial arts when I cycle carbs.  I follow IF too.  I just allow more carbs a couple days a week prior to lifting days.  I find ketosis is more a factor of my exercise levels more than strictly what I eat.  YMMV.

Off Topic / Re: Cruel and Unusual Punishment
« on: March 01, 2016, 04:26:32 am »
OMG!!!  What a nightmare!  Hope you get back to health and normalcy soon.

Pretty interesting read, Tyler.  I have been doing some CR, mainly as a result of intermittent fasting.  Blog has lots of posts on that too.  Not sure if I had seen that site before.

Raw Weston Price / Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« on: February 11, 2016, 05:04:20 am »
I don't get to visit here often lately.  Hopefully I can check in once a week at least in the future.

Eric, I really enjoyed your piece, especially:
Considering the mission of the Paleo-Primal-Price Foundation more broadly, another concern I have is its focus on diet and food. What about the value of healthy movement and activity? What about the value of learning the natural history of the areas where we live so our lifestyles better integrate into our landscapes? While there might be a niche in today’s non-profit landscape for another diet-centered foundation, I think one built on lifestyle more generally will attract a broader membership and ultimately prove more viable.

I so agree.  WAPF never wanted to consider movement when I was chapter leader.  I agree that the lifestyle approach is best.  And yeah, major creep factor from what I read about SFM's husband.  I wonder how their membership numbers are doing this year?

Health / Re: Repetitive Strain and carpal tunnel syndrome--how to beat them
« on: December 11, 2015, 02:10:36 am »
Thanks for sharing this.  Magnesium can be hard to get in foods unless you eat tons of fish and shellfish.  My DH had carpal tunnel a few years back and his doctor prescribed B complex vitamins (which is rare in US; most times they push drugs).  B6 in particular helped him, and I think raw land animals are rich in that.  We make sure to get Mg and vitamin D.  In north, it is vitamin D winter now in many areas.  I tend to crave fish like herring in winter...probably no coincidence.

Off Topic / Re: Give us a laugh !
« on: November 19, 2015, 06:42:24 am »

General Discussion / Re: Dairy indecision
« on: October 17, 2015, 05:15:05 am »
The hangover effect when the milk runs out is something that concerns me, but today I woke up feeling good, and seem to have readjusted to my regular routine without any dairy for three days. Though I will be still drinking blood and am about to go get a dozen oysters.

Love me some oysters!  Best food ever, if you ask me.

That hangover effect reminds me of how I feel on wheat.  Could well be opioids.  Dairy indecision could be the title to the story of my life.  :o

Suggestion Box / Re: complaint about annoying verification requests
« on: October 17, 2015, 05:07:42 am »
There are spam blacklists which show IP addresses of known spammers.  At dirtycarnivore, we ended up blocking large portions of China and Russia due to major spamming from IPs in those regions.  It really solved the problem quickly.  Oh, and we had approval required before posting.  That takes minor time, but you can check against and block most users with spamulous intentions before they ever post.

Suggestion Box / Re: New forum software?
« on: October 14, 2015, 07:42:17 pm »
Upgrading SMF software is free, but time consuming.  Hosting the forum is not free.  FYI, I changed my time zone in account settings, or some such place in my profile.  I see things on this forum in Central US time now.

Browsers and now phones have ad blocking options, so I think that trend to plaster ads everywhere is passe anyway.  Your ads may never be seen by people who take the time to turn settings to off.  Ads on websites are a huge turn off for me personally, because, as was mentioned, they often are unrelated to the content of the site and degrade the look and feel of the place.

We got enough donations at dirty carnivore forum to host it for years.  When it became too much cost and not enough interest, we dumped it.  We do have the entire forum saved, however.  I think a donate button on the site might be the best option for this forum, which does not want to come across as too commercial, yet may need funds to operate.

Raw Weston Price / Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« on: October 01, 2015, 04:52:27 am »
Yes, I know, after all those years I spent condemning pro-raw-dairy-advocates!  I did very occasional raw dairy experiments ever since giving it up  in Feb 2002 (sort of once a year) and found that I very gradually developed fewer, less virulent symptoms from it after about 10 years. Now, I do not immediately suffer from it, seemingly, except for some excess mucus. I do not like the mucus aspect but I do not consume raw dairy all the time anyway. If my health declined or I had to suddenly urinate more frequently etc., I would give it up instantly.

Well, at least you are open to change.  Many people keep options closed after bad experiences, which I suppose is only natural.  Or like some of the vegans or zcers, they hide what they are doing or lie to themselves and/or others (eg. claim ice cream with sugar has no carbs or some such).

Raw Weston Price / Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« on: September 24, 2015, 11:23:28 pm »
Though most of these fat adapted people interbred with other groups and there are no longer any pure bred inuit equivalents left, still I say there must be some people more fat adaptable than others.

Certainly.  And if we look at the people who have had problems vlc-zc, they are the ones highly restricting foods to muscle meats mainly...sometimes from one species.  That said, I find for myself - a northern European descendant, high fat is fine, as is low carb, but I must have the occasional carb refeed long term.  Seems like a seasonally natural approach.

I did experience an allergic reaction that cascaded beyond the original sugar alcohol erythritol to include all nightshades during a vlc period.  However, I also experienced an environmental trigger of bad shop vacuum fumes at my gym (which I quit right then and there).  So I cannot really be sure what exactly caused the allergic reaction.  Airborne triggers are common in allergy onset, from what I have read.

Raw Weston Price / Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« on: September 15, 2015, 05:13:38 am »
Yes, I think it's important to learn from those who have figured some of this stuff out.  But I like to think of such people as more of a mentor.  Once they become too powerful or subdue dissent and questioning, then it is an unhealthy relationship...or rather it can lead to that.  That's why I prefer forums like these to more hierarchical organizations.  And traditional peoples were more egalitarian anyway, right?  Hierarchies are for Neolithic types.

Hey, am I the last person to know AV died a couple years ago?  Too bad on having such a seemingly painful death falling. 

Suggestion Box / Re: New forum software?
« on: September 15, 2015, 04:51:38 am »
Haha, good one.

You can change the look and layout of the forum by going to Profile > Modify Profile > Look and Layout.  You can change smileys and other such goodies too, methinks.  SMF is pretty robust and I bet Good Samaritan is up to the latest version.

Raw Weston Price / Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« on: September 15, 2015, 04:35:29 am »
For those who are interested, David Gumpert has posted a series of well-done blog entries about this controversy over the past few weeks. They are:

Wow!  I just came back and spent all afternoon reading these links.  A comment by Cathy from the last link sums up my feelings:
...I hope these Chapter Leaders use their excellent minds to fully exercise their right to freedom of speech, their right to dissent and call their leader to the carpet if needed.

Perhaps the new qualification for a chapter leader will require a lobotomy. That way, they will be very tractable little sheeple.

I know a couple of these folks and they are not at all the sheeple type. These chapter leaders are amazing, generous, hard-working, free-thinking women and men who VOLUNTEER countless hours to teach and connect people with good sources of food. They are leaders in their communities. David, I hope they use your blog as a safe way to share their thoughts, pro or con.

And, ahem, Sally, .why are you still saying bad things about Dr. Daniel? If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all, or you will be disinvited from your own conference and exhibit hall.

Oh, and in case y'all missed it.  Here is the bashing of Paleo by WAPF.  Total duh on SFM to limit Paleo eating by one author's description.  I think it was circa 2007 when she started legally going after websites using the WAPF logo and such.  At that time I ran a volunteer site for the local N TX chapters.  Well, I got out of that business in a hurry and set up the site as a local resource that pays some homage to Price, but without any reference to WAPF.  I mean, fuck that noise of being told what I can say and do.  She has gotten way worse than she ever was.  She should step down and let someone else lead.  Otherwise it is going to look more and more like a religious organization.  And sorry, but those of us trying to make a living peddling health really do need to look healthy.  She has probably gained 50 pounds since she wrote NT and does not seem to have glowing health.  It may not be fair, but we in the nutrition and/or fitness industry are judged on looks to some extent.  And she has written weight loss books, so, yanno...

General Discussion / Re: When to eat fruit?
« on: September 04, 2015, 07:54:21 pm »
I prefer sweeter fruits like berries and melons alone.  Fruits like avocados and cucumbers are fine for me mixed with meats and fish (as in seaweed wrapped raw fish with avocado and cucumber, etc).

Raw Weston Price / Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« on: September 02, 2015, 08:01:44 pm »
I wonder if it was the NSA surveillance in the US that made many forums die down.  Seems to have coincided with that.  I figure they know who I am so why worry? 

Native Nutrition also had a spinoff group called NT politics, where things that got too heated were discussed.  Fun times.

I think this is just another example of a long line of examples where WAPF has let personal biases cloud the science and also exactly what Price found.  They stray from his recommendations, and he never recommended all people take clo.  Breastfeeding not being encouraged because SFM couldn't breastfeed, sourdough being ok for celiacs, pushing dairy as essential for all when only 2 of 12 tribes were shown to have consumed any dairy (which I bitched about here years ago, btw) and other examples over the years made me give up on them. 

I think this whole stinky mess will not bode well for them or GP.  People are lining up, and the ones that are supporting WAPF appear to be doing so out of loyalty to authority figures within the organization and not because GP has demonstrated that they offer a good product.  How many people are just going to quietly discontinue rather than make a fuss?  I know people who are very long term supporters who are cancelling plans to go to WAPF annual conference over this.  I mean, why won't GP at least divulge their source for the livers?  Don't most of us in traditional foods circles want to know the source of our foods?  Don't we try and get local foods, wild instead of farmed marine foods, etc?

Raw Weston Price / Re: 3 tribes, not 2, ate dairy
« on: September 02, 2015, 07:53:26 pm »
Yes, this came to my attention after I posted the original.  But I don't think Scotts were mentioned in the NAPD book as eating dairy.  I think it was a different tribe that I found had consumed some dairy.  In any case, the point is that only 1/4 of traditional peoples ate any dairy according to Weston A Price, yet the WAPF acts like dairy is the staple.  I believe it was marine foods which were the biggest common food.

Raw Weston Price / Re: Green Pastures FCLO could be sham
« on: September 01, 2015, 07:24:17 pm »
Chris Masterjohn:
Thanks, Phil.  I was on the Native Nutrition yahoo group with Chris from 2004-I dunno when I left.  But when I get a chance to read this blog post, I will report back, because it seems he is making reference to that group, whose posts anyone can read, iirc.

On a quick skim, I do see a conflict of interest, which these folks will try and distance themselves from.  But I don't think so.  When there's money involved, it clouds clear thinking.  That is why serious journals require a conflict of interest disclosure for studies in the first place.  It's unethical to take money from a manufacturer and then claim that their product is great based on the "science."  Last I recall, the WAPF was trying to establish a lab to test these things themselves in an unbiased way.  Now it appears the hand is in the cookie jar.  But again, this is based on skimming, so I will go read before I comment more.

Vegetable fats in cod liver oil aren't going to impress the WAP followers, for sure. He better have a good explanation, or it's going to be a hard candy Christmas at his house this year.
;) The damage is done, I agree.

And don't most traditional cultures eat liver as fresh and raw as possible?

I think gender neutral toilets are more complex than just something feminists want.  In the US it is about gender identity.  People say they think they are women, and want to use the women's room even though they have male genitalia.  It's a free for all so that someone's feelings won't get hurt because they think they are male/female/hermaphrodite/drag queens/drag kings/etc and will claim they are being discriminated against if they can't have access to the toilet of choice.  I think it's happening in California now.  Laws are being made to support this stupidity.

I can see when a small establishment has one room with one stall that is mixed gender.  But then the door is locked and people have to wait their turn. 

Here is a right wing group's take on what is happening in US.

And yes, structure of brain is different between sexes.  Then again, practices like meditation can change structure of brain in people of any gender.  So what does it mean?

I always found that the linear evolutionary track, where one entirely different species would supercede the previous one,  seemed dubious, and that a more likely scenario was that various different hominids interbred to produce the next evolved hominids, and therefore were actually the same species as each other, just being different ethnic groups as such or whatever.

Yep, linear is simply too simplistic.  Life is complex on many fronts.

Off Topic / Re: Question re dehydrated raw meat
« on: August 29, 2015, 04:19:09 am »
How thick are the slices?  In the past I have had more problem with outside molds forming on the meat that was not sufficiently dry when storing.  I don't think any of it has ever rotted, but it tends to get eaten up within a fortnight.  I slice it pretty thin so that if it does get really dry, it is not too hard on the teeth and jaws.

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