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Messages - RogueFarmer

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General Discussion / Re: Lean Times
« on: August 01, 2016, 07:44:47 am »
There is some kind of calcium copper bolus you can force to a cow goat or sheep to ingest. It adhears to the stomach and slowly releases. Calcium negates the worry of overtoxicity. Copper kills parasites on touch. Raising the animals copper level makes them poisonous to the parasites... There is also the threat of co]er toxicity harming the animal which i have heard is a huge issue in the dairy industry as they need lots of copper i imagine to prevent their cows feet from rotting away.

General Discussion / Re: Lean Times
« on: August 01, 2016, 12:24:49 am »
Sounds like you are talking about liver fluke infestation which comes about through slugs and snails in wet conditions and a lack of copper and mineral balance in the animals body as well as a lack of anti paracitic herbs.

I think it's theoretically possible to get the same problem from eating salad with slime trails on it.

Liver flukes can be pretty nasty i have experiened it several times in my goats. It could get pretty nasty but it didnt seem to have a gigantic effect on the liver as it appeared otherwise healthy. I believe goats and sheep are much more susceptible to flukes than cattle are and infested cattles quality of life should be seriously in question.

General Discussion / Re: Lean Times
« on: July 29, 2016, 02:33:20 pm »
Please please please try green pastures farm

They graze on fescue but their management is second to few, they move cattle to fresh pasture as often as every hour.

They are looking for an intern this fall.

I think there is basically a bio mechanical failure of some kind. Like. Basically everything is made of happy protons and electrons and neutrons bouncing around. Cooling them lowers their atomic speed if you will and probably diminishes the level of sunlight energy contained within.

Simply refrigerating raw milk diminishes its health giving qualities.

Uk should just place EU under embargo.

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 28, 2016, 01:51:22 am »
All my livestock were pretty much friends. The goat kids would climb on the cows as they were napping. The goats could eat the seed heads on the grass and the shrubs and cut branches, the sheep ate all the weeds, the cows ate all the grass. Every day I would move the fence to new pasture, all of the animals would immediately tromp into the new fresh pasture, all of them except the donkeys who were content to much on the stems that were left behind. Studies show sheep and cows raised together yield the farmer 20% more than either alone. Approximately 10% of that was estimated to be because of superior pasture utilization, while the other 10% was estimated to be as a result of "unknown factors" that cause sheep and cows to grow faster on average when raised in conjunction on pasture!

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 28, 2016, 01:45:20 am »
Wild animals are less picky than domesticated animals. It is the domesticated animals who have been bred for almost a century and often much longer to eat out of a feed pail or trough who are picky.

Of course because nature is no longer truly natural wild animals are probably to some extent more picky than they used to be.

Cows are not bred to eat just anything, they evolved to eat all sorts of flowering plants. 27 million years ago, 2 million years before grass evolved! They are adapted to be efficiency eaters, who fork in large quantities of bulk food. Goats and deer are the other end of the grazing spectrum, they select the most sugary tips of as many different kinds of plants as they can seemingly manage.

Icelandic sheep are much less picky than regular sheep or any other livestock I have experienced raising other than perhaps bison and definitely donkeys (donkeys as far as I know are the only grazers that seem to prefer grass stems to fresh foliage). My ewes would frequently stop to graze as they travel and would seemingly excitedly gobble up just about anything in their path, including dry yellow dead grass, when many green options were available. They were also keenly interested in the cedar swamp where i lived, where little vegetation grew and my goats would bypass as a means to get across the farm, rather than a place to find things to eat.

Goats and Deer can AFFORD to be picky because of their lifestyles. Deer are woods recluses that hide their babies in thickets when they go out to eat. Goats do the same but are additionally reside in cliffs on caves and in abandoned human settlements. Goats find a good hiding space that they return to each and every night. In humid climates goats must be within 15 miles of the ocean or a natural salt deposit for them to survive.

Large herds of grazing animals like sheep, cows, bison, water buffalo, antelope, these animals in the wild could not afford to be picky, they were constantly alert of their surroundings, on the move to avoid predation and to get enough food as they were competing with countless of their own kind as well as other herds of grazers.

They relied instead on the natural system that they themselves had created! They were their own gardeners, they created the environment in which they lived, grass evolved in response to cattle! 
The American Indians, burned the forest and brush, to make room for grass to grow for more bison and thus grew more topsoil than any other people in history. Without those ten thousand years of history prior, America would not have become the super power in the world it is today.

Holistic management is attempting to mimic nature. This is an absolute necessity for the survival of mankind today, for as the land the animals created who are now mostly dead, gives way to waste land, there are not enough wild animals alive today to save us, to bring back the fertile soils we have destroyed. Our only hope is to utilize the domestic livestock we still have to improve the natural conditions so that nature can even beguine to recover, in our lifetimes.

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 27, 2016, 04:37:28 am »
Get the bull.

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 25, 2016, 02:41:18 pm »
Wheat grass is usually a sham. Wheat grass to be truly high quality, must have 1 leaf per grass plant. As soon as the wheat plant makes a second leaf, the nutrition drops off incredibly.

Sabertooth, if you want your holy grail of forage, the best soils in America if properly minerally balanced can produce oat grass with blades 14 inches or more, single blades that are the most nutritious food ever recorded growing on land supposedly.

Another really good thing is Eastern Gamma grass which is basically perennial native corn that produces epic amounts of superior quality summer forage, is flood resistant and if properly managed can live for over a thousand years.

I am really interested in this website. I want to compile a seed mixture to plant native flowers and herbs and whatever I can add to quality pasture seed mixes.

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 25, 2016, 02:35:25 pm »
I live in Southern Oregon and I am doing some amount of farming.

Sabertooth, I am not at all trying to say fescue hay is ever suitable feed however in certain growing conditions even kentucky 51 endophyte fescue can be pretty much the best perennial forage that is actually still green in most of the United States. Now if you are planting pastures, you could instead use meadow fescue which is more palatable and does not have endophyte as well as endophyte free fescue and even "friendly" endophyte fescue which has a special endophyte which does not produce the toxins associated with regular endophyte Kentucky 51 tall fescue. As far as I know there are few other perennials that can replace fescue in quality for a winter forage in the midwestern united states. In order to do better I know of two ways, one would be to plant a crop of winter rye, winter wheat or triticale for winter grazing which produces some of the most nutritious grass possible on earth and two to have some kind of a grazing vineyard of honey suckle, which retains it's leaves and protein content long into the winter.

Bison are adapted to eat native stockpiled forages. Buffalo grass, big and little blue stem, indian grass and switch grass all make excellent winter feed for bison but are inedible to cattle after they grow too tall and throughout the winter. As well, bison's metabolism in winter slows down more than cattle, deer and elk, even more so, lessening their dietary requirements to make it through harsh winters. This is the biggest advantage of native livestock in the Americas.

It is extremely difficult to displace fescue once it is there. It is basically the hardiest cool season grass because of the symbiotic endophyte and because of it's spreading and crowning root system it is difficult and sometimes impossible to eradicate without use of harmful chemicals or great effort in machinery and cover cropping. Using Holisitc Management, fescue can literally be clobbered so hard by cattle hooves and manure that diversity is naturally forced onto fescue pastures. It is possible with one heavy grazing to increase biodiversity many times over. Fescue toxicity stops being recognizable after fescue is reduced to a smaller proportion of fescue domination. Traditional grazing as well as MIG encourages fescue. Fescue LOVES MIG, if you use MIG in the fescue belt of the midwest and southern united states I bet you will end up with a field of at least 90% fescue in less than ten years. Using HM, native grasses are able to compete against fescue and start to naturally establish themselves, the seeds somehow brought in by birds or stored in the ground, waiting for the right conditions.

You can base your beef farm off of fescue pastures, but that doesn't mean your finished product has to ever have personally eaten any fescue. How much will feeding a beef cow fescue harm her calf if her calf only ever eats improved pastures lacking in fescue?

I think it's important to remember why we grew beef cattle in the first place. Beef cattle are probably the most or second or third most economical source of meat on the planet. A beef cow can live off pasture that would starve all but the hardiest animals. A beef cow can survive and raise a calf where little else can be grown. Over 70% of beef cattle are in the tropics or sub tropics where grass grows incredibly lush but low in nutrition. There are parts of Africa where most livestock and humans die within months of living there in the wrong season due to a particular species of fly, but native cows can survive there.

I think there is good beef grown on fescue pastures. I raised my livestock for 2 years on fescue based pastures, their meat and milk was incredibly delicious, my cow in August in the middle of a drought was in better condition than most of the jerseys I visited that year at the Ohio State Fair.

I also fed my livestock kelp and they ate a lot of other things besides fescue.

I did feed my livestock fescue hay one year because it was almost impossible to find hay that year and I will tell you I will never do that again however, that year I also managed to only feed hay for a month and three weeks and my jersey cows grazed and dug through snow and grazed all winter long that year.

I think what eric said about high sugar and protein forages being lower in overall nutrition. Now those crops can be extremely nutritious in ideal conditions however, if conditions are not ideal those crops will be inferior quality. A better solution to building a better diet would then be to plant a higher diversity instead of trying to rely on a few high yielding and superior nutrition forages. What people forget is that these "superior nutrition forages" generally can only match but not surpass many of the "weeds" growing in their pastures in nutritional quality. However there are some super nutritious crops that have ludicrous quantities of sugar, protein and minerals. Most of them are weeds and as I am trying to explain, many that have excellent soil requirements, so often fail to meet expectations.

I think there are farms that produce good quality beef on fescue pastures, but perhaps you wouldn't like their quality either, you should try Polyface beef and Green Pastures farm and see how their beef tastes if you can.

You should also probably go to NZ because their whole beef production model is basically grass fed beef fed so well that the meat is so tender you can cut it with a butter knife.

I think the best compromise would be to buy a really quality piece of land, raise the best economic beef business you can that earns you money, which will also allow you to feast on your retired bulls and cull cows.

I have mostly heard 4 different influences on flavor and eating quality of beef. 1 the faster the animal is growing the more tender the meat will be and as soon as growth slows toughness onsets. 2 a mixture of forages is important for a balanced fatty acid profile and improved flavor and forage quality throughout the grazing life of the animal. 3 the way the animal is killed and the way the meat is stored and preserved after slaughter 4 the older an animal is the more flavor it has. The best tasting beef according to the editor of the stockman grass farmer was from a 20 year old cow. this is my experience as well, the best hamburger I ever ate was from my friends beef farm (which happens to be fescue based) from his 20 or 30 year old cull cows!

Finally, you may find this hard to believe but before he died, Bob Evans had a 2000 acre permaculture farm. Yes Bob Evans from the restaurant chain that serves breakfast foods and sells sausage! He was even quoted to say that if had learned about managed grazing when he was younger he never would have gotten into the sausage business!

Bob Evans managed to graze his cattle in Rio Grande Ohio all but 2 days out of the year. He was working on a system to utilize honey suckle for winter pasture when he died.

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 24, 2016, 10:41:22 pm »
Using HM even fescue dominated pastures can be turned around in as little as one grazing! Fescue is a double edged sword. There are some really good aspects to fescue and the endophyte is not always a problem. Fescue though low in nutrition and high in toxin, is basically free and also happens to be about the most cold resistant perennial grass that grows in the midwest. This means stockpiled fescue is basically the most economical winter feed for cattle herds in much of the eastern United States and elsewhere. There is little endophyte toxicity in this winter growth.

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 24, 2016, 10:36:51 pm »
Something else that's been on my mind:

For a dairy farm (whether it's cows or sheep or goat or all of the above), if you're roating your herds along different areas, it seems to me that if your grazing area was big enough, it could make some sense to have a mobile milking parlor, rather than a fixed one where all your herds have to be dragged to every day, as they go back and forth from the grazing lands to the milking parlor.

Also I've seen a documentary once where they showed dairy cows willfully entering the milking parlor and hooking themselves onto the automatic milking machines (the hooking was automatic with the movements being controlled by a computer) without being led there. I found that very suspicious. Do you think that happens with organically raised cows who have to be kept constantly pregnant or with a young calf, or is it something that just happens with cows that are given huge amounts of hormones to increase milk production?

These exist in several forms including massive trailers that cows actually load up into to be milked. Yes some organic farms do use robotic milking equipment. These artifacts allow cows to milk themselves whenever they desire. I'm not a big fan, especially since those units run about a million dollars per one, however there are some advantages.

Salatin no longer uses MIG. I don't know exactly what he does but it's pretty much HM. MIG tells you to graze grass in it's most rapid growth spurts. HM says exactly the opposite. HM says allow forages to reach sexual maturity before grazing them and if you don't allow them to reach sexual maturity before they are grazed a second time. Do not graze one field more than once before allowing every desired species to reach maturity. HM utilizes STOCKPILED forages (tall yellow grass generally with weeds growing up in between).

HM is not always more healthy for livestock than MIG, MIG is generally healthier for your herd, however in the long run, HM will produce superior forages and superior animals and superior yields. Using HM allows pastures to evolve in the most similar way to natural probably still possible in most parts of the world today.

The first 5 years of HM perhaps Sabertooth, would be inferior to truly free range wilderness. But after those 5 years of good management, most farms will surely be superior and produce superior produce to most of the wilderness left on the planet.

I don't even think it's just a problem of farmers wanting more money. Like you guys say, few of them make much money. I don't think this is because farming isn't profitable. I think it is because humans in general are kind of stupid and aren't very good at making their own decisions. They watch what their neighbors do and they follow suit. Organic farms typically largely resemble their conventional neighbors and can only be told apart from a distance by discerning eyes. Farmers who have trouble running their business generally shoot for a better quality of life, so they make farm decisions based on whatever it is that suits their needs. Like only buying a farm with a really nice house, getting some horses to ride around on, buying a great big tractor and a bunch of new hay making equipment. How about a SILO. All of those things could by themselves make a farm unprofitable! Joel Salatin calls SILOS "bankruptcy tubes".

HM is different. Practicing HM forces the farmer to create a grazing plan. It forces the farmer to learn everything he can about his farm and how to improve it. It forces the farmer to think about his farm and ever way it impacts the earth and the local community. Using HM allows the farmer to know when to sell animals or when to buy animals to manage the available forage on his land. Generally utilizing HM, land can support as many as twice as many animals in the second year and as many as 5 times as many animals or sometimes even more in as little as 5 years.

Holistic management forces you to consider things that almost no one ever does. It forces you to consider everything involved in your life and your environment. Similar to Permaculture, many claim holistic management but fewer truly practice it. Most are limited by land space like you said. When you graze for grass instead of grazing for cattle, really amazing things start to happen. Diversity and pasture quality skyrockets. Turns out cows and grass were meant to be together.

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 24, 2016, 08:02:02 am »
But they are, MIG is producing what they believe to be the highest yield per acre with grass. HM is using animals as a tool to manage landscapes. Generally but not always MIG will yield more initially but over time HM will yield more. Only in the most ideal grass growing environments should MIG be able to surpass HM I believe.

The economics of MIG are kind of totally thrashed by the fact that you generally have to replant pastures which is an insane economic burden, even planting a couple of acres was always somewhat daunting to me. And I bet it is really daunting to those who do it. I mean it's not easy to kill everything in a field and plant it to new seeds and expect to get something better than what you started with. That's an art in and of itself.

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 24, 2016, 07:41:51 am »
Fascinating posts, sabertooth, RogueFarmer and Eric.

I wonder what you guys think about rotating herds in the way Joe Salatin suggests, which is to allow the grasses to spend the most time growing at their maximum growth rate, which seems to be somewhere around the middle of the growth cycle, as when the grass blades are too short, they grow slowly as they can't capture much sunlight, and when they're long, they spend more energy flowering and developing seeds and so stop growing as much. But maybe those later stage processes are useful to feed your herds some more protein.

That's old stuff he doesn't do that anymore.

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 24, 2016, 07:32:40 am »
If he's like most grass farmers, his pastures are fairly heavily managed. He probably seeds with whatever forage he'd like to see dominate on a yearly basis, and if a pasture drifts too far from his ideal species composition he might plow it under and start again or use a broad-spectrum herbicide to kill everything and start again. If your goal is to make money in grass farming, you can't just waltz into a field and graze cattle. You need to manage the field for particular species that your cattle can digest and that allow the cattle to gain weight as fast as they can.


He doesn't use chemicals rofl...

Joel doesn't use shit, they don't vaccinate, they don't use chemical wormers, they don't spray fertilizer, they don't till fields, they don't plant seeds, they don't cut down the forest, they don't use pesticides.

Pretty sure I told you in the thread I made that Polyface was practically a permaculture farm. They are like 90% there and a lot closer than most so called permaculture farms.

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 24, 2016, 07:31:45 am »
Eric I do not understand how I disagree with you so much. Honestly I do not know exactly what Salatin is doing, but he was doing MIG nearly 40 years ago. He is on to bigger and better things. They haven't planted a pasture seed on their farm in over 50 years! The cows eat mostly grass because that's what cows naturally eat mostly and that's what naturally grows back there. They no longer use MIG (which they sort of invented) they are much closer to HM, Holistic Management. They have always sweat their crop diversity.

Eric I disagree with your northeast assessment. I think your condemnation is an omen to anyone who lives in the North East that they should gtfo because there is no other sustainable agricultural model to replace that industry. Sure grazing livestock evolved in the dry lands so they do better in the west, but they do much worse in the south and not much better in the mid west.

I fervently disagree with your idea that plants that are high in sugar or protein are not nutritious and cause nutritional shortfalls. That is exactly the total opposite of the truth. Perhaps they are growing the wrong forages for the stock they are raising. Perhaps their methods are not sound. Protein is not a problem in the North East, if you are having a protein problem on pasture in the north east, there is something seriously wrong with that pasture. There are only energy problems, carbohydrate problems. Protein problems do not happen to ruminant livestock on decent pasture. Never heard tell. Plenty of decent pasture in the north east, it's only problem is it's low in sugar, over watered and the season is short.

The problem with grazing operations in the North East is that THEY FEED HAY. Hay is the biggest economic factor on the majority of beef farms in the U.S. But making hay is generally highly unprofitable in the U.S. Make the animals do the work and then you have profit. Animals that work for a living are profitable. Animals you have to haul feed to are probably not!

Young cattle is not a new problem. This started back in the great depression. It used to be you raised a steer for 4-5 years and local farm beef was almost always an old cull cow, 4-5 year old steers were marched into cities. So farmers were eating meat that was usually 8+ years old and city people were eating 4-5 year old. This is what they used to call "aged meat" back then. Then the great depression came along with the dust bowl and STEERSMEN (an old somewhat extinct type of farmer) could no longer afford to keep their cattle for so long, while grain was plentiful and cheap, the tradition of feedlot and grainfed took root in America.

General Discussion / Re: Beyond Grass fed
« on: June 23, 2016, 02:28:11 pm »
The butcher I hired to slaughter my lambs who had been a butcher in farm country slaughtering animals his whole life told me my lamb was the best he ever saw in his life. Icelandic lamb may be the best quality lamb in the world. They were originally brought to Iceland by vikings 1100 years ago and have remained pure ever since, they are the direct descendants of the original Northern European Mountain Sheep. They eat all kinds of vegetation, more diverse and thorough in consumption than even a goat, if the right variety of perennial and in some regions annual grasses they are more fit than most livestock to live year round on pasture and wilderness. It is said they can live through what would kill another sheep breed and they have a higher requirement for copper than other sheep when it is said that copper is poisonous to sheep.

I have been studying how to grow the most nutrient dense food for the past 9 years. I have been eating organic produce all of those years and it is very clear to me there is an insane amount of factors in quality.

Most of the pasture in this country is entirely dominated by invasive species. Many of which are not ideally nutritious and in some cases toxic. Tall Fescue in much of the midwest is the predominant pasture grass and causes toxicity if consumed in too large of quantities when the plant is stressed. It has low palatability but high drought tolerance so survives when other grasses whither in dry hot summers when fescue's toxic symbiotic fungus thrives and attempts to prevent livestock from consuming the plant.

The solution? Two different ways to skin a cat as far as I see. You could throw a lot of money at the problem or you could implement high labor pasture management methods and you need to do the later to produce the highest quality product possible.

Growing a crop requires capital as does planting a pasture, usually the best option is to pick whatever animal best eats whatever food is already growing on your farm.

Pasture management is crucial, some farms rotate their cattle to fresh pasture, not just every day, or twice a day, but every hour that the sun shines all summer long!

Much of the soil is depleted of minerals, chiefly carbon and usually there is an imbalance of Calcium and Magnesium in the soil, causing other minerals to be bound and unavailable.

Livestock managed correctly are tools for bringing soil back into balance. Healthy pastures must be allowed to mature to produce carbon to feed the soil where livestock are managed. Mature forages allow livestock to select a balanced diet by allowing them to control how much of forage they eat. On pasture, ruminant livestock are limited not by protein but by carbohydrates, plants accumulate sugar on their leaves and the greater amount of protein is near the ground, so allowing plants to grow to maturity allows animals to select their own protein and sugar intake. Plants at maturity also have much more carbon so help much more to build soil than plants grazed short and tender.

Livestock are also friends and raising different livestock together improves their ability to utilize pasture and actually causes them to grow faster! Different species of grazing animals work symbiotically together to maintain pastures in nature and on the farm.

My ideal has always been to raise animals as closely to nature as possible.

Science / Re: Scientists claim that Nature is already dead
« on: June 09, 2016, 01:21:11 am »
This is exactly what I am always trying to talk about, you can only imagine the possibilities for the future of this planet. The arrogance and hubris is oozing out of the ground. Swing batta batta swing!

General Discussion / Re: Paleo/primal village
« on: June 01, 2016, 10:52:52 am »
I don't know exactly what to make of the majority of these permaculture farms. I am not aware of many who are "really doing it" but they are definitely out there.

Permaculture farms can vastly out yield conventional agriculture but will almost always require far more labor, though ever enterprise requires different amounts and some require very little, but on some farms just harvesting and processing is of course a gargantuan operation. To make a profit selling food at a premium price, perhaps as much as twice the amount of time or more would be spent marketing the goods instead of time spent in farm labor.

Most of the permaculture farms I have seen aren't even glorified organic farms, they are more like homesteads full of exotics and hardy perennials that is much lower cost and much more sustainable than a typical residential dwelling. It seems like most of them don't get much farther than that, but it is by definition, a permaculture farm, and I would argue that even the worst of them offer a better way of life than can be found in almost any other profession.

I think the problem of these farms is a cultural American problem. I think we are a very incredibly spoiled nation and one that vampirizes the poor, making it difficult for those who work long hard hours their whole lives to ever get ahead, to ever really make something of themselves. I see the farms and I see spoiled shallow people generally, they are doing not what is best or what will make them more money but what they want to do. They are like giant kids in giant sandboxes and they like to do what is fashionable for their family and their neighbors. If your neighbor buys an eight wheel tractor, you want one too. If your neighbor buys horses, you want horses too. Four wheelers. Lawns and lawnmowers. White picket fences. Bigger cows, bigger corn, more poisonous poison. Organic farmers fall into the exact same trapings.

You said 15-20k a year per person? Honestly anyone doing that good and can put that much money in their pocket at the end of the year is doing damn good.

We aren't here to make a lot of money, we are here for a purpose but we forgot what it was. Either way plenty of permaculture farms make a lot of money. Joel was claiming he makes around 1000 bucks an acre a few years ago and he was charging 2000 bucks to speak. Their farm is their cash cow. What he doesn't tell you I heard is that he also has a brother who has his own family who also all help and live on the farm, though I do not know that this is true. Joel claims they can grow beef cheaper than anyone else in Virginia. Why is this? Because Polyface farm operates 5 different businesses on the same acreage their cows graze and they stock their cows more than quintuple the local average.

General Discussion / Re: Paleo/primal village
« on: June 01, 2016, 10:38:09 am »
Maybe an aquaculture operation, that is exquisitely well-designed. A dirt farm? Doubt it.

What do you mean by dirt farm? You mean a farm made of dirt? In nature there is no such thing as dirt. Dirt just means a substance which makes clothing dirty. Dirt farms don't exist.

Off Topic / Re: Help: Vegan Attack Meat Eaters
« on: May 31, 2016, 05:56:44 pm »
If we through all the lawnmowers in America into the ocean, there would be enough grass from all those lawns to feed enough cows that every American could eat nothing but beef. If every human demanded grass fed beef and scientists and industrialists collaborated to feed the world nothing but grass fed beef we would not have global warming but another ice age on our hands.

General Discussion / Re: Paleo/primal village
« on: May 31, 2016, 04:51:07 pm »
There are a few old sages, a couple young mavericks, who wrote books that I had the miraculous good fortune to read because of some very dear friends of mine I made along the way who helped to lead me down that road. I believed like many here expressed that humanity was truly bad, irredeemable, polluted, not born sinners but born into a world of endless sin. And I didn't want to be here. but I didn't go against myself because I was curious and I wanted to know what would happen next when I got out of the prison I was in. and then I saw that there was so much more and I started to see this big gigantic beautiful new zeitgeist in my head and it's an endless mural of the most beautiful place you have ever been and looks like nothing you have ever seen or imagined beyond anything that exists but a few places on earth and it's a plan and it's a puzzle and it's probably around 100 encyclopedias worth of accumulated knowledge from when I started studying dinosaurs at the library in the city 23 years ago, exploring nature wherever I was for the entirety of my life, until I started studying organic farming when I was 18 when the seed in my brain for a superior reality first sprouted. And when I was 21 I started out building this reality by myself with just 3 goats and it was laughed at by most at first but I grew or foraged all my own food except every week I bought half a pound of grass fed butter, a small bag of potatoes a small bag of onions and some garlic. Six years later and me and my girls really started rollin with it and we were really started to be making a lot of food and the dream was truly taking form in a big way. But it's really fuckin lonely when you feel like your the only one. When the people in your life appreciate you but they don't see the scars, they don't appreciate what is underneath, they do not even dare to ponder the things that truly matter! They direct their interests in trivia, politics, vice and obscure pseudo talk therapy and giving the bulk of their energy away to their employers. They couldn't see the good works I wrought, they were blind to it or perhaps they wanted to believe, but could not because they cannot peer out into the dark, for it is fearful to peer out into the darkness. They could not see the light for the darkness has clouded their eyes and their brains. Like it was etched in my mind that there would be others... Where are you guys...

General Discussion / Re: Paleo/primal village
« on: May 31, 2016, 04:22:23 pm »
This will no doubt sound odd but I thought I should add that when I was in very ill-health years ago pre-RPD diet, pain was the only reason why I was able to eventually regain my health in the end. You see, the slow but steady inflammation from wheat and dairy over the years had resulted in my brain and body being so flooded with extra hormones that I was incapable of any will or drive whatsoever. But the agonising mental and physical pain forced me constantly seek out solutions, however  far-out, until I eventually sorted things out. Granted though, my experience may well have nothing whatsoever to do with yours.

I was raised as a "free range" country child and was very healthy until I was moved to the city and besieged by what to my mind could easily be likened to biblical pestilences. My every experience dealing with civilization feels like grinding gears trying to drive a hard to shift stick shift when you don't know how to drive stick. To my mind life in the city is a life of humiliation, pollution, danger and despair. I was told I needed to be taught in schools so that I could be educated and be hired so that I could buy a house and feed myself, but this made no sense to me because my grandma had a house where we could all live cause there were 16 bedrooms by the river and there was more food than what we could eat right where we lived in the wild and 17 acres of field and valuable trees but instead we moved to the city and for the past 23 years i have seen debt and poverty and been hungry and I don't have a family that supports me or anyone to really talk about problems.

The real world is too horrible for me to be able to stomach every day of every year. I am not immune to vice but from my observation I am far less tainted by it than most. I truly believe that things are going far worse than they ever have gone before but I also believe that there is so much potential for so more good things to happen than ever before. I think my biggest problem with my relationship with humanity so far, is it is so hard to find mentors, and thus far, almost totally impossible to find collaboration. I have encountered moreover, resistance, betrayal, predation. Perhaps this is why I have always stressed my belief and in agreement with Aajonus, that humans are truly carnivores like wolves and dogs and it makes so much sense that our behavior is so similar.

Gtfo my way Cherimoya, I've got a world to save.

General Discussion / Re: Paleo/primal village
« on: May 31, 2016, 02:21:10 pm »
What do you want to buy besides food? What are you missing out on in life that 15-20k a year and living a good life and growing the food that you eat can't cover?

A farm can be way more profitable than that, some farms are gangbusters profitable, are you guys even aware of what's going on in the world right now at all? Farming is big business. Organic farming is big business. If organic farming wasn't profitable, it wouldn't exist except as anything more than a hobby. Bhutan and Denmark are becoming entirely organic countries. In Russia if a citizen wants to farm but has no assets the government supplies him with 4 acres to grow whatever he wishes in just about any manner he wishes. In New Zealand farmers are on average the wealthiest citizens, more so than doctors or bankers. Is this merely because New Zealand has a better climate than other countries? Only partially because it's really just hard to dispute that Kiwi farmers are a lot better at growing a lot of food without a lot of labor than most of the farmers in most of the world.

I mean did you guys know that NZ was and may still be supplying the majority of McDonnalds Hamburger meat with grass fed beef because they have the most profitable way of growing beef in the world and can thus sell it cheapest.

But then you say, "no no rogue farmer, it is clearly because of their climate that they are able to do that". I don't think so. It is not the climate in NZ that makes Kiwis better farmers, rather it was the climate in NZ that influenced NZ farmers to be better farmers. We can near or even match or surpass their production and cost efficiency right here in the states, we can do it just about as good as anyone else can if not better.

And the really important secret to America being the best country for ecological farming to blossom is that more than almost any country I believe, America is underutilized. America is a feast of a famine, the good has been ushered out of the countryside and while the property values have skyrocketed from the housing bubble, the utilization of the land has plummeted in many large regions and even on the best soils in America, rent is reasonable.

Ugh UGh I feel like this forum is so intellectually limited from what it should be. Like there is a lot more important shit than raw meat, there is a lot more truth out there that has to be learned and invented and there are a whole heck of lies that need to be expunged.

Like just think about how much important shit could be happening right now if people would get off their high horses and their white citadels and their stipulations and fears and actually started working together and healing each other.

I really am a huge optimist and I have believed all along I can overcome my pain, my trauma, but this adventure of healing, this is a struggle.

Going about this, as I have alone, I never meant to and I have been trying to form connections all along. But it's really hard. Sometimes it honestly feels like an evil spirit follows me to spiritually undermine me and those that I love.

From as long as I can remember I believed in Great Spirit and the power of the universe, I am not a christian, and though I follow the teachings of christ, I am not compelled to believe how christians ask me to believe but I'll tell you it really does become hard to believe the devil is not afoot.

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