https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayan_tahr

this wikipedia article says otherwise but i have read that they are more closely related to sheep than goats.

Permaculture as a movement is based on the implicit assumption that technology will not save us in the near future, and I do not share that belief.

how is permaculture NOT technology?  how are living systems created in nature not the most complex technology man has ever known?  we cant even scratch the surface of their complexity. 

the technology man "creates" is based out of some egoic need to be responsible for "life" and to be able to be literal in translation or obscure manipulation of the knowledge of nature.  its really absurd that we hold this above actually just participating in the ridiculous miracle that life is. 

lol cherimoya, its not so literal that the shrimp eat the coconut, but you create a habitat that sustains both coconuts and shrimps and crabs and whatever else, some of what is in the system does not directly feed you, it feeds the shrimp, shrimps shit feeds the coconuts tree, and probably their own food supply etcetc....you just mimic nature.

who says the coconuts have to be grown in a monoculture?  i am sure there is land overgrown by kudzu and whatever else that could be converted to a more diverse and "productive" polyculture including coconuts.  they do have a large variety of usage and their biproducts can be composted and used to remediate more land.  people dont think about polycultures because their value systems are fucked and if its not going to make a quick profit, and if that profit doesnt directly translate into dollar bills, they generally dont see the worth.  they cant understand that the polycultures worth is in its diversity and the fact that the value is inherent in the aging and diversifying of land, vegetation and animal herds. its too hard for people nowadays to grasp nuance.

How much are you drinking per day sabertooth?  Are you eating other foods as well?  What do you consider symptoms of opioids?

oh wow you guys need to do some mushrooms. the higher power is all beings interconnected.  much like how our cells conspire to create something greater than they would be alone, we are a giant organism, interconnected with each other, ever creation in nature on this earth, the earth as its own being composed of that and all things as far out into the universe as it takes to get back to that place behind your eyes you will never be able to "See" but maybe to a lesser degree to us consciously due to distance and scale.  its not that mystical or spiritual but it is when you realize the scale of your own existence and how everything in the universe up until now conspired for you to be the unique expression of the whole that you are at this point in time.  there is a huge duality in being part of something so huge, but also feeling as an individual, most people cant wrap their minds around both and feel more comfortable choosing one option over the next and giving the universe a story in mans image because they cannot handle things being vague or grasping concepts with their senses  instead of their "intellect" 

RogueFarmer and I dined on raw pastured pork chops while driving through the redwoods on our way back from watching a full moon/lunar eclipse in the grassy dunes of the pacific coast shoreline.  we collected a wild turkey, a fresh caught salmon and some seaweed along the way, all gifted from nature. 

Horray Inger! I was just coming to check this topic to see if anyone had extended any hospitality towards Derek and his lady.  I hope you guys get the chance to enjoy each others company, let us know, it would be interested to hear how it goes. 

I have successfully lured RogueFarmer to my side of the country and am picking him up tonight.  The raw paleo convergence begins!:)

Please give up and go back to your science and technology worship. 

LOL, what wont hands on farming teach you?  I have a hard time thinking of anything that direct contact with nature wont teach you.

also, are you drunk?

I cant even get past the first sentence.  Vegans, people who think they can have this totally sanitary version of life and diet......telling people its okay to eat GMO's.  Veganism is a sure way to destroy nature and humanity.

http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/7257-go-ahead-eat-genetically-modified-food-it-s-not-bad-for-you?utm_content=buffer4bad8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

GO AHEAD—EAT GENETICALLY MODIFIED FOOD. IT’S NOT BAD FOR YOU.
by RYAN BETHENCOURT
Sep 15 at 10am
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I’m a vegan, which means I don’t eat meat, eggs, or dairy. It’s a philosophical stance, since I believe it’s wrong to butcher sentient beings for food. I’m also a scientist. I studied genetics in college, and now I help build and fund biotech start-ups. I work in downtown San Francisco and live in Oakland (which I love).

Living here in the Bay Area, I see a lot of confusion about genetically modified foods. For instance, some people think that if you eat non-GMO produce, it means you’re eating natural, but that’s wrong (fancy scientists would call this thinking the “naturalistic fallacy”).

Almost nothing you or I eat is actually natural. Our ancestors have been selectively breeding plants for at least 20,000 years, and in that time, they’ve developed most of the foods we know, love, and eat today. I hate to be the one to say it, but our food is almost all artificial—the corn you eat, the bananas you enjoy, even your broccoli and cauliflower. None of those foods is natural; they were altered by our ancestors.

And no, eating a Paleo diet does not get you closer to how we evolved to eat. The cows you eat today aren’t bison, and those pigs aren’t boars. Look again (and watch your cholesterol). Primates don’t eat that much meat!

Even more importantly, the practice of agriculture is also unnatural. Those organic apples you love are made from clones, grown artificially in fields that are artificially irrigated and artificially treated with biopesticides to prevent the destruction of crops by insects. In fact, the same genes that are inserted into GMO corn, an insecticide called Bt, is sprayed on your organic apples. It’s the exact same biopesticide. Think about that for a second, and then do a double take the next time you hear or read organic marketing materials. I repeat: it’s the same thing. Look it up!

Remember those biblical plagues of locusts and the famines that followed? Where did they go? That’s right—science and modern agriculture eradicated them (for now). If we were to grow food naturally, the organic produce wouldn’t even last one growing cycle—the plants would just be sticks in a field.

So why are so many people anti-GMO? Is it because the food is toxic? No, there’s no substantive data to support this perception, and no, you should not believe any of those sketchy blog sources with conspiracy theories. The reality of it is, if you believe climate change is real because of the overwhelming data, then why wouldn’t you believe GMOs are safe due to the overwhelming data in support of them? I’d encourage you to dive deeper into the science, specifically a scientific paper published in 2013 that reviewed 10 years of scientific data and peer-reviewed published papers about the safety of GMO crops and found that “scientific research conducted so far has not detected any significant hazards directly connected with the use of GE [genetically engineered] crops.” That is, GMO crops are safe!

“Ahh,” you’re thinking, “but the EU has banned GMOs. Gotcha!”

The EU’s GMO ban is nothing but a political smoke screen. In reality, the EU eats a ton of GMO products. Take cheese, for instance. Do you love your British Cheddar? If so, you’re eating a GMO—microbially derived rennet, an enzyme needed for cheese production in the vast majority of cheeses. If we were to get this enzyme naturally, it would come from the stomachs of dead calves (no joke). As a result of the GMO rennet, cheese is now vegetarian and a lot less gross (once you know how it’s made). So the anti-GMO posture of the EU is mostly just political theater.

So why, specifically, am I a pro-GMO vegan? Because I believe that mindfulness, knowledge, and science are more important than political games. I am against the use of sentient beings in the production of our food, and I think we can use science to give everyone what they want—milk, cheese, eggs, and even real meat—without harming animals.

My hope and aim through my work and the work of others is that one day (in a few years), you’ll all be pro-GMO vegans. Even if you keep eating steak, one day it will be lab grown, rather than sourced from suffering animals in cages—and that will be just fine by me. I might even have a few bites. Yep, real vegan steak. Ponder that for a while!

i think the issue people have with fclo is that fermentation produces hisatmines, and thats why that product seems kinda foul/bunk and irritating to people who are trying to heal their digestion and from nutritional deficiencies.  All of the dubiousness behind the business aspect and funding and shit makes me laugh.  People who gain notoriety are inherently greedy, you would be hard pressed to find someone who remains humble in any position of power these days, welcome to 2015.  This whole drama it has created is fucking silly to me too.  How peoples ideas of wapf are "shattered" ....LOFUCKINGL my friends...i guess no one is above being cult minded and wanting to put their total faith in something. 

you can also sun cook things.  i have been known to make cheeseburgers in the sun by taking ground meats(adding a little garlic powder) and making a patty, placing that on a grate in a hot and sunny location, letting that cook in the sun a while and adding a slice of cheese til it melts, also nice to put onion slices on the side and let them cook. 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/cloaked-figure-haunts-n-community-drops-raw-meat-report-article-1.2333009

A creepy, cloaked figure that's lurking around a North Carolina community and reportedly dropping raw meat in playgrounds has residents on edge.

Photos of the mysterious person covered in a dark, hooded cloak surfaced on social media earlier this month and went viral after sparking fear among some in the Gastonia neighborhood where the images were believed to be snapped.

"I see why it could be easy to make a joke out of it, but this is serious," resident Brooke Conrad told The Gaston Gazette. "We live in a world today where you don't know what's going on and you don't know people."

It's unclear if the figure is a man or a woman. The pale person was snapped standing by trees outside the Hudson Creek apartment complex, the local paper reported.

Some say they have seen the person dropping meat near a playground. An unnamed resident told the newspaper he found a bag of raw meat near the apartment two weeks ago.

A Reddit user who posted the photo on the popular networking site said the husband of the photographer of the original image said the figure would "raise its hands upwards and then down."

Police have not confirmed the meat rumor.

"We don't know if this is some bogus prank somebody is playing," Gastonia Police Department spokeswoman Donna Lasher told The Gazette.

Meanwhile, residents are left scratching their heads and demanding answers.

"This isn't just teenagers playing a joke in Gastonia a woman also saw someone just like this doing the same thing two hours away in their town as well," local Kelsie Cooper wrote on Facebook.

"This is a serious thing that needs to be addressed."