Author Topic: Yuri recovery  (Read 191884 times)

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Offline wodgina

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #200 on: October 19, 2009, 08:27:27 pm »
Knowing to much about about health and diets are your worst enemy.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #201 on: October 19, 2009, 08:54:33 pm »
Just because we don't live in Viking days doesn't mean we shouldn't emulate them as
I eat 20 extra-large raw wildcaught oysters usually once a fortnight, with sometimes other shellfish added on such as bags of raw mussels, raw lobster etc. I reckon that's enough, I mean shellfish are supposed to be reasonably high in vitamin D vis-av-si other raw foods.

Lobster contain as little as 0.010 microgram of Vit D per 100 g, mussels only 0.140 microgram and oysters have 8.000 microgram. While 5 ml of regular Fish liver oil provide 10.653 mcg.

Sources of Vitamin D.

For Vitamin D 1mcg is 40 international units. The commonly recommended adult dose of 400 units is actually 10 micrograms of the active component in the formulation.
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #202 on: October 19, 2009, 09:07:22 pm »
Knowing to much about about health and diets are your worst enemy.

Absolutely right you are! Unfortunately gone are those halcyon days...
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 09:16:11 pm by rawlion »
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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #203 on: October 20, 2009, 12:41:08 am »
I remember that I have been permanently hungry from the day one since starting intermittent fasting. I was hoping that I would adapt but sadly for me it had never happened.

After having done with IF I have been looking for ways to alleviate my insatiable hunger. Much to my astonishment more than a year of eating frequent meals, surplus calories and massive amounts of raw fat have helped me little if at all.

More speculation - someone pointed out that even if we get all the required nutrients in our food, it's what we actually absorb that really matters. Hunger means that you are not absorbing all needed stuff.
Why not?
Digestion/absorption is a co-operative effort, between us and our "friendly bacteria" - these are known, maybe other living critters. We are composite creatures, never alone, and are supposed to get help from these residents who flourish and do their thing if we create the right environment (Bechamp's "terrain"). They are killed by common preservatives in food and poisons/pollution in environment.

A useful approach might be to see our innards as a farm, such that we cultivate the right critters by feeding them what they need. For me, it looks like the right ones don't need carbohydrates, and do need the right kind of fats, sometimes including marrow and even whatever is in krill oil. Probably fat from brains would be the best, but not available where I live.

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #204 on: October 20, 2009, 06:25:39 am »
Knowing to much about about health and diets are your worst enemy.

starting to think this as well

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #205 on: October 21, 2009, 08:41:38 pm »
How the events unfolded...

Week One
Weight 66.2 kg.
Negatives: The beginning has been excruciatingly painful. Life has become hellish and absolutely unbearable. I can’t believe that I’m doing it. Intense muscle ache and weakness persists. Fatigue is severe. I can barely get out of bed. Standing still is difficult and causes discomfort. Walking is easier.
Positives: Stomach pains have lessened with the absence of plant foods. Bowel movements have become better formed and more regular.

Week Two
Weight 66.9 kg.
Negatives: The body’s immune system is not functioning adequately. Wounds are sluggish. Even minor cuts and bruises take days and days to heal. Swelling stays for a while. Still enduring pain and suffering. Completely stressed out. Anxiety, panic attacks, worry, fear, insecurity...
Positives: Have started light exercises. At the end of the second week I have had a moment of relief. Felt strong for a half a day or so.

Week Three
Weight 67.2 kg.
Negatives: Despite eating nothing but meat and fat for three weeks the slight stomach pains remain. They are not near as severe as they were from eating plants/fruits/dairy and eggs but still downright unpleasant. Anxiety, fatigue, cold hands and cold intolerance, poor and un-refreshing sleep are heading the list of chronic symptoms.
Positives: I must say, I’m rather surprised by easiness and regularity of my bowel movements.

Week Four
Weight 68.1 kg.
Negatives: And then out of the clear sky comes this painful surprise... Nagging lower back/loin pain has begun. I have read that faults in purine steps which recycle waste from daily cell death/turnover can produce this. I find the prospect of redeveloping kidney stones extremely alarming...
Positives: As the week wore on I have been feeling better and better. The muscle pain has minimized. Physical weakness has markedly diminished. This progress may quite just be deceiving though...

Week Five
Weight 70.1 kg.
Negatives: I have added more weight around my waist. Belly fat has also rapidly increased. The body's inability to convert protein into muscle tissue is obvious. It really concerns me that my urine is cloudy sometimes.  
Positives: I ended this fifth week on a real high. My anemia noticeably improved. What a joy to be able to talk…
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 09:23:51 pm by rawlion »
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Offline wodgina

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #206 on: October 21, 2009, 09:17:02 pm »
Theres nothing wrong with you. Your just anxious and depressed. It happens to nice intelligent guys like you.
Sort that out and your imagined 'illness' will disappear.
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #207 on: October 21, 2009, 09:30:48 pm »
I am slowly working my way through...
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #208 on: October 28, 2009, 10:44:17 pm »
Week Six
Weight 70.5 kg.

I dropped Vitamin C last Tuesday. There wasn’t sudden change for the worse. But my health has been declining slowly since then. Initially my energy levels decreased. Than muscle stiffness and pain returned. My legs were sinking under me. General weakness set in. That has lead to the mounting anxiety and insomnia. Eventually I became physically tired, totally exhausted and emotionally drained. So I feel pretty horrible again.

This Vit C withdrawal has unmasked the potential negatives resulting from ZC. Without it I wouldn’t have lasted that long. I am not sure this is the optimal diet for people with the exhausted adrenals.

The only benefit derived from the past week’s experiments was that I was able to figure out what was causing my cloudy urine. You have hit it! Vitamin C.

I am puzzled how to act in this unfortunate set of circumstances that made my life so incredibly difficult.
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Offline reyyzl

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #209 on: October 28, 2009, 10:59:11 pm »
    Last time you did no carbs the result was kidney stones.  Perhaps you are not the only one.  One of the things I like about the primal diet is that I urinate less than other food (I can't say I've tried no carb), I drink less water, I feel more hydrated, my bladder feels more comfortable and my kidney area doesn't ache.  Could raw milk or greens have been supporting your kidneys before?  Maybe those foods are good for you, Yuri.  I didn't want to say anything, because how should I know if what you decide to do might not be the best thing for you?  But your health declining again, and you said you felt good on primal diet.  Maybe you yourself need moderation of diet, a few carbs, but not over done in one direction or another.  Forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn.  I hope what I said helped.  Maybe you just need to stay on no carb longer.  I certainly don't know everything.   
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #210 on: November 04, 2009, 08:57:50 pm »
bingo!

I gathered my energies and got to the computer.

Yes I have been through a very traumatic ZC experience. Back then I was eating ZC which was also high in purines (raw thyroid, organ meats etc.). The only difference I made this time was to lower the purine load by excluding or severely limiting organ meats. But that didn’t calm my mind completely and the prospect of redeveloping kidney stones remained my primary concern. So naturally I got myself all hot and bothered about getting my kidneys tested and checked. I have ultrasound scan of the kidneys and bladder on November 25. I did basic urine test and blood biochemistry analysis. I will have the results soon.

I wish I knew the exact diet which could regenerate me. It would have been so simple to just follow it. It’s true that the Primal Diet was massively healing for me. But I was so much stronger back then. And NOTHING has worked after my intermittent fasting fiasco. I have never been the same again.

I am always open to a friendly word of advice. This is the main reason why I’m posting here. I want get to the heart of the matter.

The human endocrine system is sort of a control-freak. And like all other control-freaks, it has to be managed or it can wreck the whole life. Endocrine system is a committee of glands and organs that regulate an extraordinary number of bodily functions by squirting chemical messengers into the bloodstream. These chemical hormones travel around the body giving orders. They secretly tell the body parts what to do – without the body even knowing about it.

The word "hormone" means to "urge on" or to "excite" – and that's exactly what they do. They cause things to happen that have an impact on how one feels. For example, hormones determine how a person handles stress, how they react to an emergency and the moods that affect them. And to top it off, they decide whether you feel hungry or full, how you use the food you eat and whether or not you're fat or thin. Talk about a control-freak!

In a nutshell the endocrine system is the Holy Grail of health. By its nature a Holy Grail problem is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to solve.

I have to call up my remaining strength not to give up...
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Offline livingthelife

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #211 on: November 04, 2009, 10:48:04 pm »
I am always open to a friendly word of advice. This is the main reason why I’m posting here. I want get to the heart of the matter.

Theres nothing wrong with you. Your just anxious and depressed. It happens to nice intelligent guys like you.
Sort that out and your imagined 'illness' will disappear.

Try to relax and turn your focus toward building a proper life for yourself, Yuri. Maturing is not easy, especially when circumstances undercut your resources. Picking yourself apart is undermining your health. The endocrine system is not a control freak, it's a regulatory system. This "mind vs body" attitude is very damaging, and we all tend to fall into it at times. Learn to love yourself - internalize that which you are seeking.


Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #212 on: November 07, 2009, 11:27:09 pm »
My results after 7 raw ZC weeks:

General urine analysis:
presence of insignificant amount of mucus;
– neutral PH (I’m surprised to see that after 6 ZC weeks).

General blood analysis:
haemoglobin: 125  (range 130 – 160);
erythrocytes: 3.8 (range 4.0 – 5.0);
– leucocytes: 5.8 (range 4 – 9);
erythrocyte sedimentation rate: 17 (range 1 – 10).

Blood Biochemistry:
plasma is milky in colour;
– Bilirubin total: 6 umol/L (range <17);
– Bilirubin direct: 0 umol/L (range <5.1);
– Bilirubin indirect: 6 umol/L;
thymol test: 11.6 (range 0 – 4);
– ALT: 36 iu/L (range <41);
– AST: 36 iu/L (range <37);
B-lipoprotein: 107 (range 35 – 55);
– R-factor: negative;
antistreptolysin test: ++ high;
uric acid: 609 umol/L (range 202 – 417).

The doc’s diagnosis was unequivocal: GOUT and LIPAEMIA!

Gout is a disease hallmarked by elevated levels of uric acid in the bloodstream.

Lipaemia describes an abnormally high concentration of lipids in the blood, usually in the form of very low density lipoproteins (VLDLs) or chylomicrons. Characteristically the blood plasma may appear white or milky in colour due to the presence of fat.

not much to boast of...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 06:01:20 am by rawlion »
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Offline livingthelife

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #213 on: November 07, 2009, 11:37:47 pm »
Sorry to learn of these problems. I hope you are soon well and happy!

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #214 on: November 08, 2009, 01:29:28 am »
Sorry to hear that. What were your numbers before you went ZC? What are you eating now? If you were doing better in the past, what were you eating when you were at your best?
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #215 on: November 08, 2009, 02:43:04 am »
I have had blood biochemical analysis on March 30, 2009. Here are the results:

Blood Biochemistry:
high serum lipid concentration
– Bilirubin total: 6 umol/L (range <17);
– ALT: 31 iu/L (range <41);
– AST: 26 iu/L (range <37);
– creatinine: 67 umol/L (range: 62-106);
– R-factor: negative;
– C-reactive protein: negative;
– antistreptolysin test: negative;
– total protein 74 g/L (range: 60 – 80);
– uric acid: 314 umol/L (range 202 – 417).

Back then I was eating around one pound of meats/organs, bone marrow and about 50g og carbs from fruit or honey.

I'm still zeroing (600+ of fatty lamb). It is a hell of a ride without Vitamin C.

I felt best on a core Primal Diet. But that was before my failed intermittent fasting attempt. NOTHING has really worked since then.

I am particularly concerned about two thing in my labs. The first is elevated serum uric acid. Is it normal for zero carbers? And the second is abnormally high concentration of lipids in the blood and sky-high B-lipoprotein which is nothing but very low density lipoproteins.

I have very few thoughts on the subject... What do you make of this?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 06:54:29 am by rawlion »
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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #216 on: November 08, 2009, 04:18:17 am »
I hope you feel better soon.  I don't really know anything about lipaemia or ZC.  I hope to hear in the coming months that you are out enjoying your young life. 

I keep thinking I should try zc.  I was going to today.  Instead I'm doing buffalo marrow with raw JBudwig, no seed hulls.

I never got tested for gout, but I did have symtoms of in the early 1990's on vegan, none recently, no treatment.  I've had symptoms of weak kidneys and adrenals since 1970's, but much better raw omni.  I know raw animal protein is good for kidneys, but I wonder if there can be too much of a good thing.

Thank you so much, that we can read about your struggles as you go through this.  It's not wasted on "deaf ears".  I just hope you get well soon.  I imagine this could be scary for you.   
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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #217 on: November 08, 2009, 04:45:44 am »
Looks like something wrong with fat metabolism; compare with Lex's results.
And the pH of urine is remarkable, in that Lex's shows very acidic.

Since fat is known to be an essential nutrient, I would guess that the amount, kind and quality of fat in your diet is worth investigating, and especially the proportion to meat.
The only other thing that I know of that interferes with fat metabolism is carbohydrates.

From Phinney's review "Ketogenic Diets and 
Physical Performance":
 "At the other end of the spectrum, higher protein intakes have the 
potential for negative side-effects if intake of this nutrient 
exceeds 25% of daily energy expenditure. One concern with higher 
levels of protein intake is the suppression of ketogenesis relative 
to an equi-caloric amount of fat (assuming that ketones are a 
beneficial adaptation to whole body fuel homeostasis). "

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #218 on: November 08, 2009, 04:55:09 am »
Do you feel any gout symptoms?
Do you have pain on your feet? on your knees?
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #219 on: November 08, 2009, 05:32:26 am »
Do you feel any gout symptoms?
Do you have pain on your feet? on your knees?


I have been suferring from intense joint and lower back pain. Consumption of any high purine foods like herring or liver made it worse. Otherwise I seem to not have any gout-like inflammations.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 05:57:57 am by rawlion »
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Offline livingthelife

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #220 on: November 08, 2009, 06:32:12 am »
Yuri's decline in health began with some lifestyle traumas that had nothing to do with diet. See his first post:

As little as three years ago I was in very good physical form and had what I considered an excellent health. Over the following two years a several huge stressors (unexpected and shocking death of my mother, graduation from the University, new job search etc.) pushed me initially to raw vegetarianism and further to raw veganism. Three months of the latter, when my diet was exclusively plant based and extremely high in fruit, were enough to make me dreadfully weak and exhausted.

Dietary issues arose later, first as a coping mechanism and later as a genuine attempt to regain vitality.

Looks like something wrong with fat metabolism

From shock to adrenal fatigue and now impaired metabolism resulting in gout (in one's 20s!!)...

I don't want to be disagreeable, but discussions here on the forum are often quite narrow - limited to what a person is putting in one's mouth - despite the many profound and varied factors that affect health. Nicola correctly identified this attitude in the past as an eating disorder.

I do believe that everyone here wants to embrace health and gain knowledge. I think we do want to support one another, despite the frictions that arise. In Yuri's case, and please forgive my tone on this, I think he will NOT be helped by any further dissection of his diet with numbers and charts accompanied by recommendations from laypersons. I am and have been very concerned about Yuri (he knows this), and I am imploring him and others to help him direct his attentions to generalized wellness so that he can close his "recovery" journal and participate both in this forum and his life as a healthy young man.

 :'(

Sorry if I've offended. I mean well.

Offline popeye

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #221 on: November 08, 2009, 09:21:07 am »
bingo!

I gathered my energies and got to the computer.

Yes I have been through a very traumatic ZC experience. Back then I was eating ZC which was also high in purines (raw thyroid, organ meats etc.). The only difference I made this time was to lower the purine load by excluding or severely limiting organ meats. But that didn’t calm my mind completely and the prospect of redeveloping kidney stones remained my primary concern. So naturally I got myself all hot and bothered about getting my kidneys tested and checked. I have ultrasound scan of the kidneys and bladder on November 25. I did basic urine test and blood biochemistry analysis. I will have the results soon.

I wish I knew the exact diet which could regenerate me. It would have been so simple to just follow it. It’s true that the Primal Diet was massively healing for me. But I was so much stronger back then. And NOTHING has worked after my intermittent fasting fiasco. I have never been the same again.

I am always open to a friendly word of advice. This is the main reason why I’m posting here. I want get to the heart of the matter.

The human endocrine system is sort of a control-freak. And like all other control-freaks, it has to be managed or it can wreck the whole life. Endocrine system is a committee of glands and organs that regulate an extraordinary number of bodily functions by squirting chemical messengers into the bloodstream. These chemical hormones travel around the body giving orders. They secretly tell the body parts what to do – without the body even knowing about it.

The word "hormone" means to "urge on" or to "excite" – and that's exactly what they do. They cause things to happen that have an impact on how one feels. For example, hormones determine how a person handles stress, how they react to an emergency and the moods that affect them. And to top it off, they decide whether you feel hungry or full, how you use the food you eat and whether or not you're fat or thin. Talk about a control-freak!

In a nutshell the endocrine system is the Holy Grail of health. By its nature a Holy Grail problem is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to solve.

I have to call up my remaining strength not to give up...

Yuri, after reading your journal I am struck by how similar your story sounds to mine.  I too went through a period of vegetarianism that culminated in a miserable two years of attempted raw veganism.  A lot of your symptoms sound identical to mine, particularly the chronic fatigue, depression and anxiety, cold hands and feet, and low motivation.  I am still trying to resolve all my symptoms, but have been making progress.  Should I find a regimen that reverses my condition I will describe it in full so other people may be able to benefit.  I certainly empathize with you and know exactly what it's like to feel helpless and miserable all the time with seemingly no end in sight.

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #222 on: November 08, 2009, 05:03:22 pm »
I guess that doc might have been too hasty with the gout diagnosis. The fact is that my serum uric acid levels were in range when I was eating at least some carbs. It is only now on ZC when they went through the roof. I think Lyle McDonald in “The Ketogenic Diet: A complete guide for the Dieter and Practitioner” explains it in plain and precise terms:

Uric acid levels
Uric acid is a waste product of protein metabolism that is excreted through the kidneys. Under normal circumstances, uric acid is excreted as quickly as it is produced. This prevents a buildup of uric acid in the bloodstream which can cause problems, the most common of which is gout. Gout occurs when urate cause deposit in the joints and cause pain.
High levels of uric acid in the bloodstream can occur under one of two conditions: when production is increased or when removal through the kidneys is decreased. The ketogenic diet has been shown to affect the rate of uric acid excretion through the kidneys.
Ketones and uric acid compete for the same transport mechanism in the kidneys. Thus when the kidneys remove excess ketone bodies from the bloodstream, the removal of uric acid decreases and a buildup occurs.
Studies of the ketogenic diet and PSMF show a consistent and large (oftentimes doubling or tripling from normal levels) initial increase in uric acid levels in the blood. In general however, levels return towards normal after several weeks of the diet. Small amounts of carbohydrates (5% of total daily calories) can prevent a buildup of uric acid. Additionally, in studies of both epileptic children as well as adults the incidence of gout are very few, and only occur in individuals who are predisposed genetically.
Related to this topic, uric acid stones have occasionally been found in epileptic children following the ketogenic diet. This appears to be related to high levels of urinary ketones, low urinary pH and fluid restriction in these patients. It is unknown whether individuals consuming sufficient water on a ketogenic diet have any risk for this complication.
From a practical standpoint, individuals with a genetic predisposition towards gout should either include a minimal amount of carbohydrates (5% of total calories) in their diet or not use a ketogenic diet.

I'm far more worried about the bleak prospect of kidney stones...
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #223 on: November 09, 2009, 04:27:56 am »
<<...uric acid stones have occasionally been found in epileptic children following the ketogenic diet. This appears to be related to high levels of urinary ketones, low urinary pH and fluid restriction in these patients. It is unknown whether individuals consuming sufficient water on a ketogenic diet have any risk for this complication.>>

Interesting, thanks for that. So there is a risk of a complication from chronically high levels of urinary ketones after all, according to this. I'll ask Lex for his thoughts on this, and if anyone else has heard of it, please chime in.

<<From a practical standpoint, individuals with a genetic predisposition towards gout should either include a minimal amount of carbohydrates (5% of total calories) in their diet or not use a ketogenic diet.>>

I don't have experience with your sort of numbers, symptoms and history, Yuri, but that last quote does sound reasonable. It seems to fall in line with Tyler's experience in which he didn't do well on a strictly ZC diet and had to reintroduce some carbs like berries. If you feel you do better with some fruits or vitamin C in your diet, I wouldn't necessarily argue against it (though I would consider the cautions against fructose from Dr. Harris that I linked to below). I'm actually hoping to add some berries back into my diet at some point and recently I've was able to finish up a little raw honey I had left over in my cupboard without problems other than a little dental film that I took care to brush off. On the other hand, Dr. Harris and others recommend no fruit for gout patients (Harris generally recommends more fat instead--see the blog link below) and I don't know if some fruits would work or not for you. Plus, I'm not a doctor and wouldn't dare prescribe anything for you or anyone else, especially if you think you might have an eating disorder that complicates things further. Did your doctor recommend anything?

From the data it looks like antistreptolysin increased to an excessive level. Assuming that plasma appearance, thymol and B-lipoprotein were OK before (for some reason they're not listed in the earlier results, but presumably were negative), they apparently worsened also. Did your doctor explain any of this? Is he going to do any more tests other than the scan for kidney stones?

If you didn't get enough answers from your doctor, I suppose you could ask Dr. Harris at PaNu your questions, though he can't give you individual medical advice. I think he would be interested, given that he and other like-minded people have fingered fructose as the main causative factor in gout (which you did eat a lot of in the past, apparently). He has explained that while protein doesn't cause gout, it can trigger it once the underlying problems are already there lying beneath the surface, so to speak (see "Reader Comments - 283," http://www.paleonu.com/qa-and-testimonials/2009/6/27/questions-and-paleonutrition-testimonials-welcomeclick.html#comment4711781). He suggested in general that people can eat higher proportions of fat (like suet, which is several of us here eat) to avoid consuming excess levels of protein that can trigger gout attacks. Is the meat you're eating all grass-fed?

I also have never heard of a neutral pH of 7 on a ZC diet. Even the critics of ZC agree that it drives the pH down to acidic levels. That is puzzling, though not a lot of people do ZC, so it's hard to know how abnormal this is and it doesn't necessarily indicate a health problem.

It took Lex years to recover from his fasting debacle, so maybe time to heal is also a factor. I don't know for sure about that, but I do know that stressing about things, like possible future kidney stones, isn't going to help and I doubt that there is any perfect exact diet that cures everything. So while I would try something different if it were me (after getting my doctor's advice), given your recent problems on possibly high-protein ZC, I wouldn't agonize over details, seek dietary perfection, or expect miracles. That sort of thinking leads to stress and disappointment, I think. And remember to enjoy life as best you can, whatever comes.

Hope this helps rather than makes things worse--and remember that none of us here are experts so take it all with a grain of salt. This is a dietary forum, not a medical answers forum. So I wouldn't expect the latter here, though sharing experiences can sometimes lead people to investigate things or ask questions that eventually lead to answers. I know an IBS forum (and a doctor's advice) helped lead me to this way of eating that has so far done wonders for me, though it hasn't cured everything 100% and I don't expect it to.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 04:33:53 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #224 on: November 09, 2009, 05:33:40 am »
I have been suferring from intense joint and lower back pain. Consumption of any high purine foods like herring or liver made it worse. Otherwise I seem to not have any gout-like inflammations.

If you have these gout deposits, they can instantly be dissolved (30 minutes ++) with EMC (Energized Mineral Concentrate) or Quantum Minerals Plus.  Apply it directly on the area where the deposits are.

When the deposits are dissolved, you will have pain relief.  You just need to concentrate on not making new gout deposits. ( this is where rpd comes in )

Those are Philippine products, there may be some equivalent in your country.  If you don't have an equivalent in your country I will send you some via fedex / dhl. ( Quantum is 700 pesos / bottle + shipping )

While waiting for the energy medicine minerals you can try apple cider vinegar in some water as you can see the remedy in earth clinic.

These gout remedies have been helpful with my family and friends, maybe it's your turn.

http://www.myhealthblog.org/2009/01/22/my-wife-has-gout-uric-acid-deposits-in-her-feet-and-knee-her-cure-protocol/
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 05:44:56 am by goodsamaritan »
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