Author Topic: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim  (Read 24046 times)

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Offline Eric

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2012, 03:44:59 am »
Mike Adams is a joke. No argument there. But Aajonus Vonderplanitz is also a joke. And a fraud.

Both men have offered a few good ideas, but in the end their behavior, whether it be turning to goofy tabloid reporting with fear-mongering 'internet news networks' or buying fake credentials and inventing guru origin stories, give them the appearance of back-stabbing snake-oil salesmen. We'd be best to let them settle into the dustbin of history.

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2012, 09:40:08 am »
In all the time I've seen you posting eric I've seen little tangible evidence of very much wisdom, so it's terrifically ironic, but also completely natural that you would come to such a conclusion. And that is just fine!

I'm guessing you're ignorant of the work that Aajonus has done and is continuing up to this very moment for your food freedom, in addition to the many many many many people he's helped health wise.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2012, 10:55:21 am »
This whole incident of Mike Adams getting his feet wet in this Anti Aajonus tirade is not good for Mike.
Mike does his good thing and I'll forgive him for this.

Aajonus shouldn't be displaying that duped PhD title too if the university is exposed as discredited.

Aajonus and Adams are both good people and are both our allies in health and health freedom.  Let's try making them both save face after this.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2012, 10:16:30 pm »
I find Eric's posts to generally be some of the best I've seen on this forum. We would benefit from more posters like him. He already noted that he read Aajonus' books, so I don't know why someone would guess that Eric was ignorant of AV's work. Tyler has also noted that AV is dodgy and reported negative results from following AV's advice, IIRC, so Eric is hardly alone in critiquing AV at this forum. I don't see anything wrong with reporting the bad as well as the good about AV, particularly when done constructively, with supporting evidence. It provides a fuller perspective. This is the raw Paleo diet forum, not the Aajonus Vonderplanitz devotional forum.

On the other hand, I don't feel particularly compelled to target Aajonus, as his following seems rather small, most of them seem to be faring rather well, he is one of the few gurus to talk about the benefits of raw animal foods (though there are much better ones, like Denise Minger), and his stories, claims and advice are often so bizarre that I doubt he will ever be hugely influential.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 10:26:30 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

CitrusHigh

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2012, 10:34:44 pm »
What does his book have to do with what he's currently doing to protect our rights to access clean, raw food? Food contracts, law suit, raising awareness, participating in rallies (vernon hershberger).

Who is right 100% of the time? No one that I've met, and not me!  Aajonus is extreme with dairy IMO, but the foundation of his theory is the key to true health, and forgive me, but other than natives, who don't do it as a concept, who else has been eating raw animal guts for 40 years and then promoting that idea for a good portion of that time? His name is aajonus....sort of, lol.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 10:45:36 pm by Thoth »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2012, 10:38:48 pm »
You also noted "in addition to the many many many many people he's helped health wise." Did AV's books not play a role in that?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 10:48:55 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

CitrusHigh

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2012, 10:47:51 pm »
Ok then, forget the book. Jesus H farkin Christ

CitrusHigh

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2012, 10:49:15 pm »
Or really don't forget the book, it's a gold mine of info, especially to someone who's never considered conscious eating before.

I'm sure eric has indeed read the book, pretty sure that's not what I was calling him ignorant for.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 11:09:40 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2012, 10:52:42 pm »
OK, thanks for that clarification, and perhaps Eric can fill us in on whether he's aware of the work Aajonus does to promote accessibility to raw milk, the benefits some have reported in this forum by following AV's advice, etc. Maybe he's also not completely ignorant of that, or whatever you were referring to?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline svrn

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2012, 11:43:13 pm »
Iv tried everything aajonus reccomended and did it all for a certain amount of time. Now I find that about 70-80 percent of what his books say works for me and thats what im currently doing. 70-80 percent of things working for me is a number I consider very high after all of the other diet gurus of looked into.
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Offline Eric

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2012, 02:44:43 am »
I am very aware of the work Aajonus does to promote the availability of raw milk. Although I applaud him for that, it doesn't get him off the hook for his fake PhD and fantastical stories. Leaders in any movement need to carry themselves with a high degree of dignity, lest they become a burden to their movements. Aajonus Vonderplanitz is becoming quite a burden.

Offline Ferocious

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2012, 06:24:28 am »
I don't see why his fake Phd and "fantastical" stories mean so much to you...lol. People lie all the time to benefit themselves or others, I know I do. The fact is the information he provides is good and helpful. He only faked his Phd and apparently made up stories so that he would attract regular people to his work. I don't understand why people go so crazy and perceive lying as some horrible, awful thing. It makes no sense. He lied for a reason obviously, not to be an "EVIL" person! It's not like a Phd actually means anything anyway. lol

Offline Eric

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2012, 07:12:05 am »
I never claimed he lied to be an 'evil' person. His fake PhD and fantastical stories bother me because he makes us all look ridiculous.

Offline Eric

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2012, 07:44:26 am »
And a PhD might not mean anything to you, but it means a lot to some people. It obviously meant something to Aajonus, otherwise he wouldn't have paid serious cash to buy one from a diploma mill. It also means something to me, because I labored for four years to earn a real one from an accredited university. And it means something to my consulting clients, who pay me top dollar to work for them.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2012, 08:54:52 am »
Did anyone check out the recording or transcript in the story update? If so, what is your take on it?
Quote
This story has been updated:

Update #1 - A secret audio recordings has emerged that shows Aajonus Vonderplanitz demanding $500,000 from Sharon Palmer and all assets from Rawesome Foods (James Stewart), further supporting his financial motive behind his actions. Full report at:
http://www.naturalnews.com/036123_Aajonus_Vonderplanitz_Sharon_Palmer_secret_audio.html
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline svrn

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2012, 12:29:45 pm »
that audio proved absolutely nothing...
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CitrusHigh

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2012, 12:36:38 pm »
Supposedly from Aaj:

Hi,
The all of the facts of the matter have not been available to you. Let me clarify.

At that time, James Stewart and the other 2 owners of the property on which our food club Rawesome operated, were being charged with Building and Safety Code violations, not milk or food issues. The property was not the food club no more than the land on which a mall sits, is the individuals shops. The shops are the shops and the land on which they sit is separate from a legal perspective.

Although I was not required to help with the property, I advised James Stewart, who also managed our food club, to get a former Los Angeles County Building and Safety Inspector to inspect the property to ensure that there was no fire or other hazard on the property that could affect anyone outside of the club, that is the public. He failed to do it and then wanted Right To Choose Healthy Food members to pay for his building and safety problems on the property.

The funds that I collected for Right To Choose Healthy Food, Trust ("RTCHF") was collected to sue any government agent/agency for food infringement. That was stated on my appeal for funds. I did not state anywhere that those funds would be used to defend James Stewart and his partners for their separate property problems.

Because of James Stewart's' many deceits, especially his illegal taping into the cities' sewer system without permit and illegal dumping into it for at least 3 years (dire felonies), he refused to be cooperative in any suit that RTCHF would make against governments for food-infringement issues. What is your opinion? Should RTCHF have spent its money to sue government for food-infringements or for James Stewart's' building and safety violations?

In fact, James Stewart did not pay Right To Choose Healthy Food, Trust (RTCHF)/Rawesome membership fees to RTCHF for all of the 5 years he managed Rawesome under RTCHF. That was about $25,000 yearly. That equals about $125,000. Yet RTCHF defended him and won for him throughout those years when government agents cited him for food violations. James Stewart, pay RTCHF the $125,000 you owe RTCHF.

Sharon Palmer also collected RTCHF membership fees and did not pay them to RTCHF for one year.

I hope that this resolves the issue.
healthfully and appreciatively,
aajonus

Please post my response wherever you can. Thank you.

CitrusHigh

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2012, 01:29:09 pm »
I am very aware of the work Aajonus does to promote the availability of raw milk. Although I applaud him for that, it doesn't get him off the hook for his fake PhD and fantastical stories. Leaders in any movement need to carry themselves with a high degree of dignity, lest they become a burden to their movements. Aajonus Vonderplanitz is becoming quite a burden.

Lol, who cares about the fake ID? His knowledge isn't predicated on having a phd, no one was coerced in to taking his advice on the basis of him having a phd. Stop passing the blame. People like you have no concept of personal responsibility, which is endemic in this country especially. Cheri promotes it when he says people shouldn't have handguns, society affirms it when we hand out welfare, it is again affirmed with every little sign and warning label on each piece of junk we buy from the store. We affirm it with million dollar law suits because a lady spills coffee on herself.

We're not going to be able to be the gods and creators that we truly are until everyone takes complete responsibility for their reality.

It is that type of behaviour that has gotten us to where we are today. People just doing whatever the drug dealer/butcher (so called doctors) tells them to. So they can get sicker and sicker. Think hard before you wish away one of the precious few points of light we have doing the work that everyone should be, and without getting rich.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 01:40:54 pm by Thoth »

Offline Eric

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2012, 09:33:16 pm »
Thoth, your most recent post is nonsensical enough that I wonder if you were high on something when you typed it.

The post previous where Aajonus attempts to defend himself is a bit out of context. Is he defending his statements in the snippet of audio that's been circulating? If so, it seems like his defense attempts to divert focus from his apparent extortion attempt ($500,000 from Palmer) to issues of Stewart paying dues to a trust fund he apparently controls, an issue not even mentioned in the audio clip. If his defense is not directed at the audio snippet, then I don't have enough context to know what to make of it.

CitrusHigh

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2012, 09:41:58 pm »
I'm sure you are confounded eric! But that's ok, you'll get over it! And I t'weren't high, but I'm getting there!

I don't know what's what here with this situation, but from the observable portion of this affair, I have not seen any foul play from Aaj, whereas from what I can tell, at least Sharon was charged with defrauding the elderly at some point, so call me skeptical if she's the victim she's being made out to be.  C'mon eric, supposedly you're in to the old ways (superficially and leftbrained albeit), track this shit brah!

Offline Eric

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2012, 10:25:29 pm »
I'm not trying to defend Sharon Palmer or James Stewart. It sounds to me like they're involved in finagling of their own, and if they've violated the law they should be dealt with in accordance with the law.

Offline svrn

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2012, 12:44:37 am »
Thoth, your most recent post is nonsensical enough that I wonder if you were high on something when you typed it.

The post previous where Aajonus attempts to defend himself is a bit out of context. Is he defending his statements in the snippet of audio that's been circulating? If so, it seems like his defense attempts to divert focus from his apparent extortion attempt ($500,000 from Palmer) to issues of Stewart paying dues to a trust fund he apparently controls, an issue not even mentioned in the audio clip. If his defense is not directed at the audio snippet, then I don't have enough context to know what to make of it.

that audio snippet doesnt deserve a defense. It was completely pointless to post that audio snippet since it doesnt incriminate aajonus in any way.

Please explain which part of that audio incriminated aajonus in any way because I dont see it.
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Offline DopeDivinity

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2012, 04:24:51 am »
I wouldn't doubt if Mike Adams does have his own vegan agenda, considering I remember reading an article where he said MeatEaters have been proven to be stupider than vegetarians, and that he'd never eat meat for fear of being associated with WifeBeating Alcoholics.

Which makes me realize... I hate Mike Adams. And I also hate Aajonus Vonderplanitz. And I hate everyone on this forum, and I hate myself.

I think we should just stop judging eachother for our percieved flaws take a look at our positive sides. Someone always has to be made the enemy. The biggest enemy here is Ignorance.

If we didn't all have bugs up our butts, couldn't we feel Unconditional Love for Aajonus and Mike Adams and whoever else, despite their percieved flaws?

That's what I'm going to try to do... despite the fact that I've been programmed to be a HateRobot

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Offline Dorothy

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2012, 09:32:59 pm »
I wouldn't doubt if Mike Adams does have his own vegan agenda, considering I remember reading an article where he said MeatEaters have been proven to be stupider than vegetarians, and that he'd never eat meat for fear of being associated with WifeBeating Alcoholics.

Which makes me realize... I hate Mike Adams. And I also hate Aajonus Vonderplanitz. And I hate everyone on this forum, and I hate myself.

I think we should just stop judging eachother for our percieved flaws take a look at our positive sides. Someone always has to be made the enemy. The biggest enemy here is Ignorance.

If we didn't all have bugs up our butts, couldn't we feel Unconditional Love for Aajonus and Mike Adams and whoever else, despite their percieved flaws?

That's what I'm going to try to do... despite the fact that I've been programmed to be a HateRobot

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Offline mhikl

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Re: Controversial anti-Aajonus claim
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2012, 06:18:54 am »
When I saw Mr Vonderplanitz on The Doctors I did not at first catch his name. My impression was that he came across as a bit of a nut, for he seemed to lack common sense and seemed, at times, to be out of control. What went on before the show in consultation with the Doctors or their representative, may have affected his behaviour. But surely he must have been aware of what he was walking into and of the very real possibility of a planned agenda that was not in his best interests.

His actions and his statements surprised me, and I was familiar with the idea of raw eating. To choose chicken as the meat to eat in front of an audience who would be repulsed by the thought much less at the sight of the act, was a blatant challenge to those conventional doctors, their agenda aside, who would have no choice but to take him to task. Such could be seen as insanity. He practically asked for and definitely dared the responses he got and he should have been aware that reality shows have to impact their audiences to keep up their ratings. Such purport to be in the interest of information, but showmanship for audience reaction always trumps good reporting.

To come out to that audience, that most likely supports heroic medicine, with the statement about bacteria theory was the final nail to his coffin. Not having a quick response to the concerns over a newborn's health was the final shove into burial with an audience made up of mothers.  In an audience that size, and to a huge home and YouTube audience as well, there must be some who gravitate towards cooked meat and fat. Those were the ones who might be interested to search out the raw diet. Now possibly many will be less inclined to do so. For all those who got turned on to this life style by Aajonus, what multiplier might it be that are turned off by the appearance of fanaticism.

Poor judgement is where his crime sits. The movement is bigger than Aajonus. There are many in every movement that are left for dead along the journey to acceptance, many not by their own accord; and should Aajonus be such a casualty, then some of the blame rests on his poor judgement.

However, it is our duty to learn the truth and share the facts with naysayers as best we can. But we are not without resources. Fortunately, we have the mouth (and that face, the hair, those eyes) of Dean Ornish on our side in any debate with the fanatic vegan. It has been reported that his studies cannot be duplicated, which is a little tricky in the field of science.
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