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Messages - surfsteve

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1
Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 19, 2019, 01:21:52 am »
Thanks!

The batch I made yesterday came out good again.  I'm making a new batch today and intend on inoculating it with spores while the beans are still fairly hot. I'm also going to use extra salt and a lot of molasses instead of my expensive honey in the inoculate solution and I steamed them in a steamer basket in the pressure cooker instead of cooking them in a bowl as a double boiler.

I think where I went wrong on my bad batches besides letting the beans cool down was draping a clean towel over them to help the fumes escape so I'll be steaming the towel by dampening it and putting it in the microwave for at least 5 minutes from now on. Boiling the spoon in a cup of water in the microwave works plenty good for sterilizing it. I didn't even bother to sterilize the spoon on the first batch that failed.

I'll let you guys know when I perfect the art or at least get close to it. This batch turned out as good or better than commercially produced natto.  I learned a lot from the two failures I had so I don't regret them. After tomorrow I should have enough to start feeding it to my dogs again. I fed them some of the failed batches and even ate some myself but neither of us cared for it like the way we love it when it turns out really good! I'm anxious to see the difference between making it with molasses instead of honey! Oh and the salt seems to have affected the culture and given it more of a coffee like taste. Really good!

Oh yeah. One last, last note. I forgot I had one of those gun type infrared thermometers and got it out. My beans got done while writing this and were 220 degrees after pressure cooking, 175 degrees after the seal went down, 155 degrees when I pulled out the steamer.  My inoculate solution also 155 when I added the spores. By the time I dumped  out the steaming water and got everything back into the cooker, set it to yogurt and covered it with a hot towel  before putting the lid back on it went down to 135 degrees. The use of this thermometer will help me to turn it into more of an exact science! Let's see if they are right about the spores being ok at these extremely high temperatures! I will find out tomorrow!

2
Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 18, 2019, 02:59:44 am »
OK. So I thought I had become an expert at making natto but apparently it was beginners luck. Even the oriental grocery store knows little about natto. When I bought it for the 2nd time the same boxes were sitting in the refrigerator. The expiration date was several months from now. The problem was the date was for keeping the natto frozen and it was being sold as refrigerated. By the time I got my 2nd batch home it was already too spoiled for making natto but I've learned a few tips since then:

One thing I learned (I will post links at the end) is that the spores I ordered can tolerate very high temperatures and can even survive being boiled for up to an hour. Though to be safe you should not exceed 175 degrees F. when inoculating. I reasoned that the opposite was true and  that the naked spores could be killed instantly as opposed to being protected by being in the beans. Nothing could be further from the truth and one website went so far as to say the spores should be shocked by inoculating while the natto is steaming hot, much like the way some seeds proliferate after a forest fire. No wonder my natto from spores failed!

I was also worried that maybe my natto had failed because of the honey. Honey is sterile and I thought maybe the honey had steralized them. Though neither of the links I am about to post recommend using honey they do recommend using salt for minerals and sugar or molasses to help give the spores a head start in addition to the heat shock treatment.

I also read that Bacillus subtilis, the strain of bacteria that produces natto is somewhat essential to the human gut and that it is very rare, only found in a few cheeses and very few other foods. Though most bacteria are killed by stomach acid, Bacillus subtilis spores survive the journey surprisingly well and once introduced proliferate in the small intestine.

Also natto is one of the few fermented foods that is alkaline, a PH of 9.0 and virtually every other fermented food is acid.

For more information kindly read the links below:

https://www.seriouseats.com/2017/07/obsessed-ann-yonetani-natto-nyrture.html

http://www.tahoescience.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/LTFedEvent-2008-natto-making.pdf

Thanks for putting up with my natto obsession.

surfsteve.

3
Health / Re: Allergies, Immunity, and Healing
« on: March 17, 2019, 10:51:48 pm »
It's weird but I can now eat certain foods that used to cause me allergies without problems. Are these foods still bad for me? I don't know. Maybe improving in one area allows me to lax in other areas. I wonder if there is a threshold that if you go above certain foods start bothering you that previously didn't.

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If any of you guys are looking for something (cooked,) quick, easy and cheap (If you're willing to buy in bulk) to make that is nutritious I highly suggest miso soup!

I can make a cup of semi authentic miso soup just as fast as anyone can make a ramin noodle or cup-o-soup!

While a cup of water is coming to a boil I throw a large pinch of wakame seaweed, small hand full of dried tuna flakes, a teaspoon of kelp poweder and squeeze an ounce of miso as if it were tooth paste into a cup. It takes me well under a minute to do this and I have to wait another minute or two for the water to come to a boil.

$11 for a kilogram of miso, enough to make 60 cups.

$35 for a kilogram of wakame seaweed, enough to make 500 cups.

$20 for a pound of dried tuna flakes, enough to make 200 cups

and $13 for kelp powder, enough to make 250 cups. All quantities are conservative estimates and the cups I make are huge! Prices are all obtainable from Amazon and include USA delivery.

If you loved Ramin noodles but don't eat them anymore because they are so unhealthy you will most likely be interested in making miso soup.

5
I got my kelp from Amazon. The brand was Starwest. It wasn't true Icelandic kelp but rather off the east coast of Canada near Iceland. I paid 12 something for a pound but for double that you can get 3 pounds from them which would last quite a long time.

I don't eat too many leafy greens myself. Just a small handful of dandelion and leaf lettuce in a huge salad with zucchini, baby carrots, radish, turnips, rutabagas and green onions. Sometimes I add hard boiled egg and have recently been adding cheese which used to give me terrible allergies but don't seem to be bothering me lately. My old salads were lettuce, tomato, cucumber and celery. I stopped the tomato on account of nightshades and celery because of phytotoxins. I don't know why I stopped using cucumber. It just doesn't appeal to me lately so I been using zucchini instead. I guess maybe I been craving starchy vegetables. I've also been eating a lot less meat since I started eating natto. So far no negative effects from doing so, in fact I been feeling better than usual. Though I haven't been hitting the gym. I've also been cheating a little on my diet with coffee and occasional ranch dressing on my salads. More of the meat I've been eating has been grass fed as I've learned to find the sales and load up my freezer when I find them. Still no luck at all in finding grass fed organ meats. Who eats that stuff? They must all be putting it in pet food. One guy I called admitted to doing this because he didn't have any demand for it. He pretty much told me that I wasn't worth saving it for in so many words. I think I could have convinced him if I lived locally but in order to drive 150 miles each way I would have to pick up a decent sized order. Also he only offered liver for sale. I wasn't about to drive 300 miles for a single beef liver and he wasn't willing to save them till he had enough to make it worth driving for. I suspect due to their age grass fed animals have small thymuses. For now I'll stick to calves liver which is the closest thing to grass fed that I can find. Boy did I get off track!

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Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 15, 2019, 08:40:55 pm »
They didhn't have the same cheap brand of natto to use as starter at the oriental grocery store yesterday but the brand they had worked just like before.

I had high hopes for using dry natto or the spores. Too bad they didn't work.

How am I going to make natto during the zombie apocalypse or if Trump doesn't get reelected in 2020?

7
I went back to eating salads. I am still eliminating night shade vegetables and eating tons of natto. Natto isn't really a vegetable it is a bacteria cultured on cooked beans. So I don't know what to make of it. Only that I feel super healthy when I eat it. I also started making miso soup which isn't raw at all. I really didn't notice anything good from it till I added a spoon full of Icelandic Kelp. Oh man what a difference! I hardly need any sleep. My teeth feel really clean and 100 percent of my back pain is gone. I feel like a teenager! Kelp must be what I've been missing.

I'm sure it has to be Icelandic kelp though as several years back I got some from Japan. It was giving me flu like symptoms and when I tested it with my Geiger counter it was well over double background radiation. The difference between Japanese and Icelandic kelp is like night and day!

8
Hot Topics / My first natto failure!
« on: March 15, 2019, 12:37:16 am »
As insurance I ordered some dry natto spores and made a batch of natto as usual. After 8 hours I stirred the natto and I had zero cultivation so I added some powdered natto into the batch and checked it again this morning. I still have zero cultivation even after 16 hours. I added some more powdered spores but I'm not expecting natto to cultivate. What a waste! Both the spores and powdered natto have failed to produce natto. I'm headed to the oriental grocery store to buy more fresh natto. This seems to be the only source that works. I'm buying two packages and putting one in the freezer for emergency. Never tried making natto from frozen natto but apparently it works.

Since I started eating natto my health has gone up several notches.

It's very disappointing not to be able to make natto from either of the dry sources because natto would be a really good food to make in a SHTF situation. I think I'm going to order a bag from the same source as when I first tried dried natto. The new stuff doesn't even taste like natto, just plain old dried and powdered soy beans. I wonder though why the spores didn't work. Going to give it another 8 hours and if it doesn't work by the time this new batch of beans are done soaking, throw away the whole mess. My dogs are begging for natto but I'm eating it all myself till I can grow enough for them!

Who knew?

9
I been cooking my meat that way for years. I still never developed a taste for completely raw though. I use spices but stopped using pepper as it is a night shade.

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Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 10, 2019, 01:10:07 am »
To conclude: I'm eating a 3rd bowl of natto this morning. (1st and 3rd bowl from batch 2 and 2nd bowl from batch 1.) I believe the more it's cultured, the stronger the cheesy cocoa taste it develops. Even after only 12 hours of culturing it's pretty stringy and doesn't get much stringier after 30 hours, I think it's pretty much the taste that changes. My first batch I only had a tiny bit of starter natto left but I used a huge tablespoon from that batch to make the 2nd one, that plus the honey plus the additional culture time made the taste a lot stronger.

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Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 10, 2019, 12:45:22 am »
I am eating my 2nd batch of soy natto that I cultured from the last batch. It is noticeably less stringier but seems to have a slightly stronger carob or bitter cocoa flavor. I'd have to say that the culture probably breaks down like yogurt does, probably due to contamination and that you should probably make it from store bought natto every time unless you know a trick to keeping the culture pure or are doing it under laboratory conditions, which I don't.

Yeah. I'm eating a batch of the first natto and it's definitely stringier but doesn't have coco like flavor. I think the 2nd generation batch definitely tastes better but isn't as stringy. This could be due to the extra honey I added to get the culture started. I might point out that there is no sweet taste at all. I suspect the sugar is completely broken down from the microbes.

I think this thread is winding down. If I can figure out for sure what gives it that cocoa like taste I will add to it. ( maybe more culturing time?) Also I will try and post what it tastes like when I make it from dried powdered natto. I noticed they sell spores specifically as starter that are very expensive. I wouldn't waste my money on them but if you do I'd be interested to hear how the natto turned out.

Take care,
and I hope someone enjoys this thread!

12
Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 08, 2019, 12:01:06 am »
I ate a huge bowl of the soybean natto I made yesterday and I can really feel the difference. I can still taste it this morning and I feel an almost high from it. It would be interesting to find out the vitamin content of natto made from different types of beans. The soybean natto is the mildest tasting and all the extra honey really fed the microbes and got them going quickly. About halfway through the fermentation process I stir the beans and added more water to them. The last batch was noticeably more fermented than any previous batches. To the point where it was half beans and half stringy ferment which is sort of like gravy. OK maybe not sort of but enough to remind me of it.

I'm adding a monster sized tablespoon of honey to my next batch and planning on fermenting it for 30 hours. I'm also out of store bought natto so I'm inoculating it with the natto I made from the previous batch. I wonder if it will reduce the quality the way it does when you do it with yogurt. It seemed with yogurt that after 3 or 4 generations the quality was noticeably worse.


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Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 07, 2019, 06:21:05 am »
One thing I can say after eating natto is that I have been unintentionally cutting down on my meat consumption. I don't think there are any vegans here among us but if there are I would definitely say, eat natto if you want to be a healthy vegan. In addition to vitamin K there's definitely loads of B vitamins in this stuff because it makes my pee yellow just like I took a vitamin. After eating it a while I'd have to say it's more like a meat than it is like a vegetable.

If you just want to get used to natto I would recommend you start off eating the powder first because it's not slimy and then when you make it don't add a lot of water and little or no honey to start the culture. I wouldn't recommend decreasing the fermenting time though because the longer it ferments the more it vents off the stinkiness. Also it tastes better when it's aged in the refrigerator a few days.

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Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 07, 2019, 05:38:12 am »
I just made natto for my first time using soy beans. It turned out super slimy and gooey! I used extra honey and water in the inoculation but even so, I think it was the soy beans that had something to do with it. I been making a batch every day or so while the previous one is soaking. I even got my dogs eating it! Now that I'm used to making it I can definitely say it's no harder to make than yogurt!

15
Most days I make a salad out of leaf lettuce, dandelion, zuchini, green onion, carrots, radishes, turnips and rutabagas.  I used to use tomatoes and peppers before I gave up nightshades. I been smothering it in a natto, olive oil, vinegar, salt, pepper and dill weed dressing.

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Hot Topics / Re: Fermenting rice?
« on: March 05, 2019, 12:12:03 am »
Yeah. I was thinking that fermenting it raw would have to be done with wild local bacteria. You could cook it and inoculate it with yogurt bacteria or natto for that matter. Cooking rice and adding whey to it is much different than  culturing the rice with whey. That would seem more like taking the rice and simply letting it spoil.

I'm not familiar with how toxic rice is raw. It doesn't seem like it would be as toxic as beans.

The reason I started eating natto was because I liked cooked pinto beans already and it seemed like a super good way to multiply their nutrition and introduce some raw bacteria into an otherwise cooked food. It also multiplied the taste factor to the same degree. I think a sour tasting, yogurt like, rice, would have the same promising possibility.

Yogurt bacteria are more refined than whey. I wonder if I have been to conditioned too much to accept rice that has been cultured by whey.

When I google cultured yogurt rice the only recipes I found were simply adding yogurt to rice and didn't involve culturing it at all. That would be a step down in nutrition to my present diet. Realizing this I was planning on abandoning the idea. I have plenty of things I can already eat in other areas for variety but if I ever get tired of them I will explore culturing rice a little more in the future. I still might give the idea of culturing cooked rice with yogurt bacteria a try. But chances are slim if it hasn't been done already and been popular enough to be recommended in an internet recipe that I will find it palatable.

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Hot Topics / Fermenting rice?
« on: March 04, 2019, 01:53:10 am »
I am interested in fermenting rice. Rather than do it with natto bacteria I think it might be better to inoculate it with yogurt. I'm going to see if I can find any videos on it before I try it. I'm hoping that it has a sour yogurt taste and also that the fermenting destroys the carbohydrates.

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Welcoming Committee / Re: Journey back to health
« on: March 03, 2019, 11:56:57 pm »
Welcome to the forum. I been either very low carb or zero carb for several years. I generally don't eat legumes but recently came off zero carb by adding salads and natto to my diet lately and it's nice to have some carbs back in it. It sounds like you are on the right track. Some people here treat paleo as a religion. For myself I'm just here because most of the foods that agree with me are paleo and the bulk of my diet is raw. Good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for.

19
Funny you should mention David Icke being banned from Australia. I was banned from the David Icke forum yesterday. You reap what you sow David!  It sucks for the reason they banned him though. There is substantial evidence that vaccinations are unhealthy but probably little for whatever lizard people reason David Icke wants them banned.  Power corrupts and from what I've seen by the way David Icke abuses what little power he has, he would be just as bad if not worse than Hillary if he were in charge. Thank god for Trump. He's far from perfect but a huge improvement on the likes of either of them!

It only seems natural that the most successful search platform would be the most censored and loaded with spyware. If it weren't named google it would probably be whatever next one was inline. The problem is much bigger than google I fear. It seems do be a problem with human nature and the level that we have progressed.

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Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 02, 2019, 01:27:25 pm »
Here's a video about making natto with the pot I just bought. Mine came in the mail today!

DIY Instant Pot Natto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JbWqRNCmxQ

She made that look too easy. I still have a ton of natto so I should probably wait before making anymore but I just can't wait to try it with my new gizmo. Wow she paid $100 for hers? The one I bought was half that. Other than a few smudges that looked like fingerprints it was brand new!

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Fair enough.


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I use google and I have a right to complain. I think your Starbucks analogy isn't quite on because you can just go down the street and buy cheaper and better coffee but other search engines are not as good and some of them are just as evil. I could say it's like complaining about the government and continuing to draw social security rather than starve but that would be the other extreme. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of our two examples.

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Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 01, 2019, 04:50:27 am »
I'm ten minutes away from inoculating my 2nd batch of pinto beans I just cooked up. I boiled an ounce of water and a spoon full of honey in the microwave that is cooling down enough to add my natto starter. The honey will help it multiply faster. I think I forgot to mention it last time. I left the spoon in the honey water so it will be sterilized as well.

Once I take it out of the microwave I'm going to microwave a damp towel 3 minutes to sterilize it.  I feel the towel needs to be sterilized this time because I made such a big batch that it's going to come in direct contact with the bowl of beans I placed inside my yogurt maker which is full of water. This could contaminate my natto.

Hope this batch turns out as good as the first one did.

Oh yeah I also didn't drain all the water from the beans. Left an ounce or two. I am hoping this will make it stringier as there will be more liquid. In hind sight I suppose I should have just used more water with the honey.

Here I go!

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Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 01, 2019, 01:31:39 am »
I just ordered some bonita flakes I found on Amazon for under $20 a pound. I couldn't make them myself that cheap. Probably made from more than 5 pounds of fresh tuna.

Here's the link if anyone is interested:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013CFCJ5I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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Hot Topics / Re: Anyone Ever Made Natto?
« on: March 01, 2019, 01:14:50 am »
You might try throwing a few sprouted garbanzo beans in with some other assorted vegetables and letting them ferment in a jar of water naturally. I've pickled all sorts of vegetables. Carrots, celery, onions and cauliflower all mixed together are my favorite. Sometimes I throw in a little sliced cucumber. I always add salt and spices. The salt makes them crisp I guess by favoring bacteria that like salt. If you don't use it your pickling will turn to mush.  Oh yeah. I used to throw in some cayenne pepper to spice it up but that's before I stopped doing the nightshade thingy.

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