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Messages - Paleo Donk

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126
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: How big?
« on: June 29, 2010, 08:00:23 pm »
with the kind of posture you have in the pic they will think you must have gotten run over by a truck at some point in your life and now living with a broken back.  with proper posture they would think you're a pro athlete.

http://www.ultimatehealthprotocol.com/images/Postures.jpg

Your comparisons are running a little wild don't you think? I do agree that a correct posture can make a huge difference with respect to how others will perceive you. I slouched for many, many years in school and bench pressed incorrectly which lead to me looking like the skeletal figure with bad posture you posted. Head looking down, shoulders pinched forward, thoracic spine curved. I can't seem to stand up straight for more than a few minutes at a time without getting pain somewhere.

As for what is correct posture- that is up for debate and if you do some searching around the forum (search esther gokhale) you will see that many of us believe correct posture to be that which is exhibited by indigenous cultures around the world that normally go barefoot.

I am in the process of rehabilitating myself with a slew of dynamic stretching and light accessory work. One of the programs I am trying to follow that has gotten good reviews is here - http://www.dieselcrew.com/how-to-shoulder-rehab/

Also, many people do steroids without much issue and you can do them relatively safely. This is not an endorsement as nobody here should use them but they aren't as bad as they are made out to be.

127
Hot Topics / Re: Instincto Debunking Thread
« on: June 28, 2010, 11:20:04 am »
Also I have no king, but do accept Alphagruis' black girlfriend as my queen.

128
Hot Topics / Re: Instincto Debunking Thread
« on: June 28, 2010, 11:10:28 am »
Hehe - Instead of peacefully trying to make your points and give your experience so that others might have a chance to hear your story, you instinctively insta-leave?

Is this how you handle other decisions? Without thinking it through. Its ironic it aligns precisely with your instinctual eating habits.  You do realize this looks horrible for you leaving because of a very few members. It could be that the rest of the forum is supportive of you but has yet to make any presence known by way of posting.

129
Hot Topics / Re: Instincto Debunking Thread
« on: June 28, 2010, 10:52:34 am »
I wonder where humans sense of smell ranks for mammals, primates? I would assume humans evolved in a manner that their sense of smell greatly diminished in place so other higher functioning (pattern recognition, ability to read, etc..) mechanisms could develop.

I still wonder how eating instincto in the wild, where it needs to take place for it to be taken seriously, would change the intake of the diet. Perhaps raw zero carb would rule in the wild. And in the wild you may adhere to your other instinctive practices which also must necessarily be adhered to so that the diet part is maximized. Like defecating instinctively, being naked, masturbating, etc...

130
Welcoming Committee / Re: My health journey thus far
« on: June 28, 2010, 07:45:12 am »
Wow, incredible journey. That's horrifying that a doctor decided to do the DMPS challenge test, and especially so when you still had your fillings in. You write very well and your diet looks good. Definitely keep the journal and very best wishes to good health.

131
General Discussion / Re: Gallstones
« on: June 28, 2010, 07:28:26 am »
I think the only way to detect gallstones is to get an ultrasound.

I am in the process of seeing if I have any gallstones or biliary blockage by doing a cleansing diet composed of the following and then liver flushing.

egg yolks + lime as my main source of calories
Chinese bitters and Gold coin grass in the morning for dissolving the stones
Castor oil packs for an hour a day on the liver for disturbing anything clogged in the liver/gallbladder area
Coffee enemas to further help get bile flowing
Grape bitters taken before or after meals
Apple cider vinegar taken before meals and especially the few days before the liver flush

This is just a few things you can do to enhance liver/gallbladder cleansing.

Some people swear by liver flushing and others believe it is dangerous and can possibly move a stone into the common bile duct which would necessitate surgery. From the reports on curezone it seems that very few ever have problems flushing and I haven't heard one case of someone needing surgery because of a liver flush.

There is a discussion board here -http://www.curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=447 on liver flushes where you can read all you want to know about others experiences.

There is also a survey of about a 1000 people who have gone through liver flushing with the reports here - http://www.curezone.com/faq/p/s.asp?a=28,571,2826&s=21

There is absolutely no consensus and no clinical trials and multiple varieties of liver flushes though the most commonly used one is the Hulda Clark flush.

I have completed two liver flushes with no stones being removed, though I didn't follow the recipe and ignored the epsom salts. I did have a powerful headache(stronger than any in the past several months) within a couple days of my last flush so I might possibly have moved some sludge around and not out.

Many people will flush dozens of times and its generally recommended that you flush until you get 3 consecutive flushes with no stones. Though some people think the mixture (olive oil and citrus) combined with the bile is what leads to the green stones that so many people report. This does make sense to me but does not explain the black stones or the calcified stones that some people report getting out.

Many people here have done the flushes with mixed results.

You can scroll to the bottom of this man's blog to read about his incredible journey flushing
http://curezone.com/blogs/f.asp?f=1196

It took him 50 flushes to get out the stones. The one big issue with most of these people flushing is that they have horrible diets that they return to and may prevent them from ever removing all the stones.

This is just a small piece of what you will find on curezone. Most will recommend a low-fat fruitarian-esque diet or even juice diet before flushing and since I don't really like think this is healthy at all I am testing whether or not this predoimantly egg yolk diet will replace all the fruit.

Also, blood tests can show issues with the liver. Bilirubin, ceruloplasmin and copper levels are indicative of whether or not there is biliary insufficiency.

Your fast could have somehow started a healing process where stones or sludge where being removed. Thats just a guess but you would be best posting on curezone and see what those more experienced have to say.

132
Journals / Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« on: June 28, 2010, 06:45:11 am »
I think you're right, it might be ideal to take off from any kind of physical activity, save stretching and walking in the sun for quite some time and just focus all my energy on healing, which means completely removing myself from the computer. I am very hesitant to do this because of all the progress I have made with my strength training. But I have lots of little aches and pains (probably due to slouching for so many years and incorrect exercising) as well as being severely inflexible and would probably benefit greatly in the long run if I could heal and re-balance my body.

As for the coffee enema - I think quite a bit of it leaked out as it was going in. I've done around 10 enemas total and they've all immediately come out. I have read reports of others absorbing the enemas without issues. The number of bad experiences seem to be very low with the CE's.

The thing with liver flushing is that it would most likely go much better while on the yolk diet since this is already supposedly cleansing out my system anyways.

I skimmed through Matt Stones free ebook and he is a huge proponent of dropping everything and healing. His method of healing is to eat as much as possible from non-grain, low-fructose natural foods until your morning body temperature rises to normal levels. I'm not sure about the overfeeding bit as I have basically been doing this the last couple months but many people have had success in the short time period that its been around.

Also, I am going to a monastery out around San Antonio tomorrow for the day to explore the possibility of staying out there for some time to do some labor.


133
basically (and this does not defy the mice comparison) it may be possible that our diet is one that is extremely high in fat by 'design' (more so than other animals) but that are need for different ratios (higher or lower) is only culled upon by the onset of diseases due to previous inheritance and poor diet.

The thing with epilepsy is that it is a childhood disorder unlike many other diseases of civilization and so it happens to an organism that is sufficiently good at eliminating toxins and does not have the accumulated effects of decades of poor diet which would disrupt the organism's ability to handle certain diets. Diabetics cannot handle sugar and those with gallstones do not handle fat that well and these diseases do not usually come before 40 years  old.

Since childhood epilepsy still persists today, I would assume that whatever predisposes one to it has been genetically selected for epilepsy for perhaps all of time on earth

Similarly type I diabetics seem to do well on ketogenic diets and again  those children may very well have the same extraordinary benefits as those with epilepsy. There is some evidence that autistic kids benefit from ketogenic diets.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12693778

Thus, epilepsy, autism, type I diabetes and likely many others have all been intertwined in our genetic code for quite some time and one would think that they would have been selected against long ago since they occur before reproduction age. Cancer, heart disease and type II diabetes are selected against and are true diseases of civilization and thus generally only appear after reproduction age. So do these disorders that appear well before reproduction age and are essentially cured by a ketogenic diet prove that indeed this diet is optimal?

134
I would tend to think epilepsy is a 'disease of civilization' but don't understand why if it was not present in wild animals it would prove our natural diet is ketogenic. I mean, alot of even carnivorous animals do not eat a ketogenic diet or close. I don't think it makes it bad, but I think 90% fat in nature would be pretty tough, being more achievable with concentrated oils, or bulk fats from suppliers.

I suppose this is the crux of my argument. I think it would be great to investigate whether ketogenic diets work for all animals or just in humans. If they work well for all animals, then the diet is simply a fluke and has some alternate explanation other than being our natural diet. But, what is great about wild animals is that there is no debate on what their natural diet is - that data has already been observed. My assumption here is that a natural diet will cure the animal of epilepsy. Below is one study on epileptic mice.

For instance, we'd need an animal like a mouse who's natural diet is not high in fat to be induced with epilepsy and then treated with either a ketogenic diet or their natural diet and see which one works better.

Quote
KD treatment delayed seizure onset in young male EL mice by 1 month; however, seizure protection was transient, inasmuch as the treated and control mice experienced a similar number and intensity of seizures after 6 weeks on the diet.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10961617

Apparently, the ketogenic diet did nothing for these mice long term. To my knowledge there haven't been any studies done with diets that were that much different than high-fat diets. There is a small study done below that showed that low glycemic index diet achieved better results than the ketogenic diet.

http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/NutritionNonAuto/KetogenicDietModifiedEpilepsy.pdf

I think epilepsy is a great disorder to test whether diet has any impact. The outcome is black and white - there is no need for blood tests, simply a counting of seizures. And these seizures show signs of being diminished immediately within a day or two of treatment with the new diet.

Yuri, my assumption is that a properly administered ketogenic diet will do best. I am aware of this MCT diet which is high in fat (60% based on your link), but I think this diet which consists of tremendous amounts of liquid, highly processed oils will be no match for raw animal fats. All the studies are based on ridiculous unnatural forms of diets unfortunately. The scientists seem to care more about the chemical structure(18 carbons or 12 carbons) of the food and not the actual source of the food itself (processed oils vs raw bone marrow, etc..)


Also, having a diet that is 90%+ fat in nature might have been possible if we truly were scavengers for much of our existence subsisting on bone marrow and brains, which supply little protein. This is based on the fact that we might have been too small to hunt large game until only the last few hundred thousand years. If anything, scavenging points to a lower protein diet, whether the energy was provided by fats or carbs.

135
hmm, that would be interesting to find out first of all what the percentage of wild animals that were epileptic. From there we could induce epilepsy and then try to treat it with a ketogenic diet or their natural diet. If the ketogenic diet does not work for the animal as well as the natural diet for helping with the epilepsy then again this would further show that humans are meant for high-fat.

136
I wonder if there is any other major ailment that is cured so well by a change in diet. Can anyone name anything with a more dramatic effect?

I also think (with nothing to back this up) that epileptic genes were probably amongst paleo man, they were just never triggered through bad diet, just like a whole host of genes are now being expressed in ways they never were meant to be expressed. Seeing that epilepsy was even mentioned in the bible as being treated with zero-carb (fasting) further backs that up.

I think seizures diminish as the epileptic gets older (though increase again with advanced age) and so perhaps the body becomes much better at processing an improper diet as time goes on. Essentially, symptoms of a bad diet are exacerbated earlier or later in life. Think for instance infants who are fed exclusively soy-formula and turn out to be duds as opposed to the many adults who eat tons of soy and remain healthy.

Also, there was a survey conducted where 96% of the families who tried the diet would recommend it to others. I can't imagine many pharmaceutical drugs getting anywhere near this number, assuming its not biased significantly.  So, regardless of the "side-effects" it appears the pay-off is well worth it.

I quickly looked up epilepsy in other animals and only found stuff about it with dogs and no wild animals. And if wild animals don't get epilepsy this just adds more evidence to the fact that our natural diet would be a ketogenic diet. I would like to try a 90%+ fat diet.

Heh, I just found a paper detailing an epileptic black bear raised in captivity on dog food, ice cream and peanuts. http://www.jstor.org/pss/20460241

137
Journals / Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« on: June 27, 2010, 09:05:19 am »
Had 16 egg yolks yesterday with 4 squeezed limes and a touch of honey. I was only hungry right before bed but instead of going in for the starch just went to sleep. I don't plan on making this a low calorie experiment at all. I wasn't that hungry so I didn't eat.

This morning I went to go pick blueberries at a local farm. pickyourown.org is a great site with a list of farms that allow you to pick your own fruits. The blueberries were excellent for the most part and definitely sweeter than the store variety, almost like candy. I went with my mom and we picked 7.5 pounds and I ate about half of them myself.

That was a mistake and for one of the first times ever I had whole undigested food in my stool within hours of intake. Lots of blueberry skin. I didn't feel bad at all, just had quite a bit of rumbling in my stomach and frequent trips to the toilet. Perhaps this is a good sign that food is going through me quickly. It seems I am perpetually clogged.

I gave myself a coffee enema yesterday and somehow absorbed almost all of it.

I got some blood tests back about a week ago. Elevated bilirubin, low ceruloplasmin, low white blood cell count. This again makes perfect sense about my troubles with zero-carb. I plan on liver flushing in about a week if I can stay on this diet high in yolks. Hopefully the combination of this liquid diet, chinese herbs and enemas does the trick and I get something out.

I should be getting a good amount of raw butter here soon.

I was really bummed about USA losing to Ghana, they played well and had so many more chances to score just couldn't connect. I've played soccer my entire life. I really should get back into playing.

138
Generalized anxiety without a specific cause is actually a disorder. Many people suffer from this and from what I know, a huge part of it is brought on by cumulative stress over the years that has not been appropriately dealt with. This free floating anxiety can be very hard to deal with for many people such as myself. Before this year I had no clue as to what to do with it and didn't even realize it was going on. I just knew I felt bad.

139
Hot Topics / Ketogenic diet cures epilepsy - Why isn't it optimal?
« on: June 27, 2010, 06:25:52 am »
Assumption - A properly administered ketogenic diet will remove nearly all seizures from nearly all epileptic children.

For me, this is the best evidence we have that a diet high in animal fats is indeed correct and most likely optimal for humans. No other diet can even come close to matching the efficacy of ketogenic diets have with obliterating epilepsy.

Unfortunately, the way these diets are normally administered is quite improper - nothing is raw and vegetable oils seem to make up a decent part as well as quite a bit of cheating going on for sure and there are significant (2-6%) amount of kids that get kidney stones.

I was wondering if someone could make an argument that the fact that ketogenic diets work so well for epileptics does not imply that they should work so well for the rest of humans. Are epileptics really that much of a fluke that some non-natural diet provides such an enormous relief of symptoms could somehow not translate to optimality for the rest of us? I really don't think so.

Simply put - the ketogenic diet is 80-95 percent fat with the rest protein and little to no carbohydrate. Also interesting is that kids will still do well with such little protein in their diet, the most anabolic period of their lives.

Here are some links of experiments for further reading

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20132287
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17621514
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19596731
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17621514

140
Off Topic / Re: Gulf of Mexico oil spill
« on: June 26, 2010, 07:45:58 am »
If everyone drove the same (low) speed and rarely changed lanes and I was sure they would always drive with this safe strategy, I would drive much faster and change lanes much more frequently than I do now. This would ensure I would be able to have sex with more young healthy women.

When you are down 2-0 in the 80th minute of a match, you want to play as recklessly as possible.

It is unfortunate that companies now survive simply because they are they are as reckless as possible and capitalism ensures that a strategy of recklessness will necessarily give advantages to it while at the same time looking as safe as possible and even when tragedy strikes you will get bailed out by your future great-grandchildren. In todays world the mistakes that these corporations make are going to be felt by everybody, not just those in the vicinity. Like a steam engine 150 years ago - if it explode, so what a few people die. Eventually one of these "mistakes" will lead to the end of humanity. This, I am certain of.

A good question to ask from the above picture - is why wasn't the cat equally as afraid and retreat, since by your reasoning this must surely happen since they would both want to be safe. Perhaps the cat's DNA is still programmed as though it were much larger.

Whats great though is that we can still make personal choices about health that seem very reckless such as your instincto adventure.

My point is that strategy for taking on risk can change quite dramatically over the course of one's life, especially for those near death.

141
Instincto / Anopsology / Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« on: June 26, 2010, 07:18:28 am »
Well, that was a good bedtime story. We can all put little instincto to bed.

142
Off Topic / Re: Gulf of Mexico oil spill
« on: June 25, 2010, 09:13:02 pm »
But the aim of animals and humans, and moreover in a technological civilisation such as ours, is always to avoid risks as much as possible.

This is ironic. Do you see why?

What did you learn about risks from the smaller cat chasing the larger fox?

143
Journals / Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« on: June 25, 2010, 08:26:31 am »
I think if I could intravenously get my nutrition I would as this would surpass digestion and allow any of those organs to heal if need be. That might be wrong but that would be interesting to do if possible.

Eating a mono-diet as prescribed by quite a few on the forum probably mimics this as much as possible and this is another reason to do just the yolks without the whites. The yolks, I would guess are probably easier to digest by themselves.

I suppose I am on day 2 of the yolk and starch diet. I had 6 yolks with a touch of honey and then some yams in the afternoon with a bunch of raw butter. I tried some wild caught salmon (300g) and that was pretty decent. I had a few small fruits mixed in as well and overall ate much less than I had the last few weeks and was pretty hungry when i went to bed and had a few more fruits but was able to control the total outbreak that normally happens. I think part of this control had to with my evening in which I spent with one of my friends who has more mental instability than me. I was rigorously honest with him and was able to open up and speak freely and confidently. This no doubt helped me maintain control of my food intake.

Today though I had a bit of a fruit implosion along with some milk and passed out immediately after. I did have more potatoes with butter which tasted very good almost to the point of healing.

I also front squatted 315 for a 15 pound PR.

I finally got something on tape
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nofIxRtm26I

144
Off Topic / Re: Gulf of Mexico oil spill
« on: June 25, 2010, 12:37:31 am »
Should we demonize every corporation then or just certain sectors?

I do think its kind of funny we just pick on BP because they happened to have the negative event happen to them. It could easily be that the other oil companies are taking larger risks, just we have no evidence of anything going wrong yet.

Same thing happened in baseball when we focused on all the players that got caught with steroids. Clearly there were so many more and likely many that are still cheating. When incentive is present, people will push the limits regardless. Those that don't just don't make it to the top.

145
Journals / Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« on: June 23, 2010, 09:51:04 pm »
The added info is great - I have seen very few reports about anyone really staying on this egg yolk cleansing type diet for an extended period of time. Re: egg whites - There are several members here who report bad experiences with egg whites and a paper posted on the lack of digestibility of the whites (likely unfertile). I'm not sure how this translates into removal of toxins especially if its taken together with the yolk. Wouldn't it pull some good nutrition with it through the bowels? The same thing that fiber does. I have some green clay that I haven't used in a while that is supposedly good for pulling toxins through and I might go ahead and start using this in the mornings instead of using eating the whites. Rooney advocated activated charcoal for beginners as well, which looks like it would work. I will stick with the yolks for now and maybe experiment with the whites later on, and especially so if I can get fertilized eggs.

I'm not sure what to think of complete fasting yet. I'd rather not try it seeing as you are guaranteed to lose muscle. I wonder if fasting for a few days at a time while doing this yolk diet would be the best of both worlds. Moving towards zero-carb seems like it would be a good step before fasting so maybe I will start skipping days when I eat once I get my fat calories up high enough.

146
General Discussion / Re: Kidney Issues (From fasting, not from rpd)
« on: June 23, 2010, 08:56:39 pm »
A few inches below your right nipple is the liver/gallbladder area. I believe when people report kidney pain its farther down the body and usually felt on the back.

147
Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Try this...
« on: June 23, 2010, 12:28:28 pm »
Connective tissue I believe. I have nearly choked to death on that stuff many times. Some pieces of meat seem to have quite an absurd amount and in fact I have chewed some of that stuff for over 30 minutes and it doesn't seem to be easier to swallow. What I do though is hold one end of the wad in my mouth and pull the other side with my hands and some of the strands will break loose to small enough pieces that I can swallow. I've now realized the struggle with this tissue is not really worth it and will spit it out and throw it away, though it does make for everlasting gum if you happen to miss it.

148
Journals / Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« on: June 23, 2010, 12:15:35 pm »
I am going to try and eat healthy once again and do some kind of diet getting most of my calories from egg yolk, raw butter and cooked starch. I will eat some raw meat and fat but I want to test AV's egg yolk diet. I will also add honey and probably some citrus to the yolks. I have a good source for eggs which have the added benefit of being an entire animal (an argument I don't see many people making), though I don't believe they are fertilized.

I have been eating plenty of yolks the past month or so but will try and ramp it up to 20 or more. If everything goes well, maybe even more up to 40 (thats only 2k calories). I'm also going to consider doing some mini-fasts and am working on how to approach this. I still feel clogged up inside.

Also, I am a complete idiot. I was only doing about 35 yard dashes. I somehow could not even measure the distance properly with a tape measure. I am so often conservative with these types of things I don't know what the fk came over me. This explains how fast I was, even though I've timed myself around 4.8 before. I guess it was just wishful thinking that my squat had helped my performance that much. Still, it was nice to run pain free, though today my legs felt really tight and inflexible.

149
Instincto / Anopsology / Re: Explain INstincto Diet Fully #2
« on: June 23, 2010, 05:14:01 am »
I have some hypotheticals for GCB or Iguanna that I think would be quite interesting.

What kind of benefits would I enjoy by choosing the instincto route over a lower carb (say at most 30% calories from carbs) raw paleo diet which includes mostly domesticated animal meats and fats over the period of 1 year, 5 years, a lifetime?

Do you think conventional raw paleo as how most members on this board follow is dangerous? What are the worst problems that those following raw paleo will encounter?

Would a low-fat Ornish type diet (one that western medicine propagates) be better than a low-carb raw paleo diet?

How big of a difference would it make choosing instincto in a modern home thousands of miles away from the tropics vs living within a small tribe of gathering folk naked in the tropics over the course of a lifetime.

Do you die following instincto? If you do, is lifespan increased? How do you die?

When would one succumb to protein overload (100g/day? 300g/day?)

Do you apply instinctual reasoning to other aspects of life? If you feel like fighting (or even killing) someone do you do this? I understand we are not anywhere near our same environment but it would be interesting to find out which instincts you do listen to.

150
Hot Topics / Cleansing protocols before starting rpd
« on: June 22, 2010, 11:46:02 pm »
Hey all, I've seen some members here advocate some kind of cleansing protocol before attempting rpd. I believe Actionhero recommends something like 3 weeks of fruit only followed by a mixture of fruits and meat before going to predominantly meat. Goodsamaratin has a whole host of cleanses found here - http://www.curemanual.com/detox-protocols-and-treatments/

I've also now read quite a few accounts of people having great results with juice fasting, especially in the first couple weeks. Water fasting has also done wonders for many. I'm wondering if this is partly why Lex Rooker has had such great results. He literally almost killed himself water fasting for a month and this I believe was fairly soon before he started his paleo adventure. Perhaps he not only dumped much of his muscle and other tissues away but also all the toxins that had been stored up within him and he was able to construct himself a new man so to speak.

Also, many (seems like most) members here have gone through vegan or vegetarian or at least low-fat diets and these perhaps can act as somewhat of a cleanse. I, on the other hand went straight to VLC and now to raw LC (though recently raw plus lots of junk) and did not fair so well.

I think the main principle behind cleanses is to give your digestive system a rest and give yourself very easily uptaken nutrition like juice so that the body can concentrate on healing. Based on recent blood tests I have some disconcerting liver panels - elevated bilirubin, low ceruloplasm and low copper all indicating bile insufficiency as well as low white-blood cell count.

I am not going to rush into anything here. But, if others could relay their experience with cleanses and eventually their path to rpd that would be great.

Has anyone started rpd and then cleansed and then went back to rpd with better results?

I would like to find a diet that maximizes the cleansing and minimizes the muscle loss as it seems all these cleanses are low protein. Perhaps the Aajonus mostly egg yolk plus starch diet/cleanse is the closest thing I can get to something that would provide me with good nutrition. I know Yuri has tried this minus the starches and failed. Does anyone else have experience with a majority egg yolk diet?

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