both of our quotes were accurate by the way. the use of ellipsis is a completely valid way of quoting. My wuote would have lasted many pages if i didnt use illipsis and nobody would have read all that. I lumped the important parts together for the sake of argument.

It is a misquote, if you hadn't used elipsis, the quote would have meant something else and lasted chapters.

NO, You read it wrong. God! OMG! You misquoted the book you are citing as evidence!

"In searching for a common enemy against whom we can unite, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like, would fit the bill. In their totality and their interactions these phenomena do constitute a common threat which must be confronted by everyone together. But in designating these dangers as the enemy, we fall into the trap, which we have already warned readers about, namely mistaking symptoms for causes. All these dangers are caused by human intervention in natural processes, an it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy then is humanity itself."

The only thing wrong with this statement is that it lumps humanity in one big ball and ignores the dynamic between the control groups and the civilian masses who lack good leadership.

But you don't even understand what they are saying. You are taking it totally out of context of the book. They are using the royal we for all of humanity. Speaking in the context of being the people of the earth "searching for a common enemy against whom we can unite".

This book is good, it's worth reading. The intentions of the people writing might not be the best, but they are at least sincere I believe.

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/documents/TheFirstGlobalRevolution_text.pdf

page 75

i wonder if the climate change fanatics will ever address this quote. Its funny how they get so mad at me for questioning their beliefs.

No body got mad except you. You're the one being argumentative. Your ranting and raving about all this proof you have but haven't given a hint of evidence but an hour and a half video that no one has time to watch. I checked out your quote and the book. I don't have time to read that entire book but I have to sort of agree with that quote and the rest of what I read. Actually it looks like a pretty good book worth reading with a lot of good insight and ideas in it.

Also, snow shmow. How is how much snow we get any indication at all of the effects of global warming? When it's really cold, it doesn't snow. Snow is just winter precipitation.

Oh just go away, we want to live in a good world. Quit derailing our thread with your meaningless political paranoia. We know that politicians are evil, most of us have fucking moved on with our lives. We don't believe a word Al Gore says. Honestly I would appreciate it if a moderator would split this discussion into a different topic because it is a total derailment of the discussion I intended for the thread.

The past ten years are all the hottest years on record and last year was the hottest. We change the climate with paved roads and black rooftops, just like you say. There are many ways to cause it. A strip mine could be hotter than a city.

We are freaking burning a million acres of grassland in africa every year, you think that doesn't contribute to the climate? You are seriously insane.

I can prove you wrong with a basic scientific experiment at home with basic house hold items.

thermometers, co2, methane (fracking off gasses 20% of it's methane) in plastic containers, light bulbs...

the greenhouse effect. The problem is that most of the world is turning into desert. Including in the east of the united states and farmland in china and russia. We have usurped nature by killing all the game and predators, started the 6th mass extinction. There is only one solution. Livestock are the only tools we have to heal the land.

Uhm, yeah I'm not going to watch an hour and a half long video by conspiracy theorists because they are wasting all of our time. I have seen these people. THEY DO RAISE GOOD POINTS about the cultish environmental mentality behind global warming politic. Doesn't mean climate change isn't caused by humans.  I have read the natural history of how humans have changed our climate. We created deserts in places that once had enough rainfall to support verdant forests but don't anymore. Forests and grasslands produce microbes that travel into the atmosphere and cause rainfall.

The Cradle of Civilization was one of the most fertile places ever, Iraq and Iran, where agriculture was born, is now desert, because of agriculture and ultimately the diversion of the tigris and euphrates... which would also cause climate change.

It could be mentioned that some of the effects of global warming are caused by lack of rainwater retention and excessive runoff, but the terrain and the weather have a big effect on each other... you can't deny this.

If you have bodies of water (like the millions of ponds America had before streams and rivers were damned and beavers were slaughtered for pelts). Those bodies of water attract atmospheric water. Yellow dead grass repels rain, it stays up in the sky from the warm rising air. Green grass attracts humidity and rain.

You cannot continue denying human caused global warming. You are not a scientist. You are trusting people that are telling you a somewhat true but incomplete story. Denying climate change is basically denialism. It was discovered long ago that sky trails from airplanes has a cooling effect on the earth...

zomg haha To have any credibility you must provide actual evidence. We can do a scientific experiment at home showing that excess co2 and methane causes the green house effect and extra warmth from light sources. What scientific experiments have you done to disprove the green house effect?

It could be true that it has more to do with the soil's ability for water retention and the lack of plant life in the ground, but to say that man made climate change is a myth is insane.

How are any of these solutions to gender inequality?

Well I don't think there is much hope for the older generations, they are going to keep being sexist. I suppose there is some hope for the future generations though.

Amazing lecture. So, the problem is not livestock itself, but the way livestock is managed. By managing it in a way which mimics nature, it doesn’t cause desertification but on the contrary reclaims previously desertified land. If it’s true, and it looks like it is, that is the solution to save the planet!

I'm just a novice starting out and I am in the east (wet) region of the US, but I practice short duration, long rest rotational grazing and I have watched a field of mostly weeds turn into mostly grass in less than a year.

We rotated pigs through the pasture and they tilled it up and killed a lot of weeds and the old dead growth was trodden by the cows into the ground. Honestly, it's a long story but it was a move of desperation. I didn't believe the land would support my animals, but I had just been screwed hard by a proverbial evil b**** and a friend helped me out... I was trying to figure out what to do, but I watched how my animals were doing and scratched my head and saw my cow making 4 gallons of milk a day on just grass and I just went for it... what I thought couldn't be done, what people told me couldn't be done, worked a hell of a lot better than not at all.

It was just the most amazing thing to watch, the animals secured their own future... though the land was poor and the plants course and weedy, these animals evolved with these plants to live... if we give our animals a varied diet, even one of poor quality and we have the right genetics, they will thrive and with the right management, nature will thrive with them. 

p.s. Yes, like alive said, the first time when I rotated my animals across that field, I fed a hay bale with every new paddock. this also helped I think or at least my animals probably wouldn't have gotten enough to eat without it!

p.p.s. I mean, what happened for me is not anywhere the kind of miracle allan savory is talking about, because a big part of it was simply the animals clearing and tramping the dead vegetation to make room for more grass. Still, it was so instructive and obvious to witness this demonstration and to see the benefit that the livestock gave to the pasture.

Yeah but there are probably only three solutions to that, all of which are "unethical".

1 imprisonment and indoctrination
2 legalize murder
3 mass nutting
or perhaps four and slightly more ethical would be to strip men of civil rights, ownership rights, etc.

haha!

I should have mentioned too that depending on the breed and perhaps animal, the fat globules in the cream can be large or small. Goat globules are typically smaller, this is why the cream doesn't rise as well. Some cows such as Dexter and Brown swiss as well as others of the more "primitive" breeds.  have more goat size globules. Smaller fat globules are widely claimed to be easier to digest.

For better or worse, my Jersey's cream must have really big globules because the cream rises in a couple minutes when it's warm, while goats milk would take hours. This is practical if you don't have a centrifuge and you want to make butter or ice cream!

I have heard because of the higher protein levels in goats milk you can make a lower cream ice cream with equal consistency. BUT WHO WANTS THAT???!!!!!!!

Honestly though, I prefer the cow's milk, I feel like I crave it more. Haven't bothered to milk the goats in 2 years. That will probably change this year though.

Totally bogus. Modern domestic herbivores all need more minerals than can be found on land except some extremely rare dry land areas in remote parts of the world. For instance in Great Britain, feral goats don't live more than 15 miles from the ocean or a few rare exposed mineral caches. They have been eating kelp since they have existed. Some parts of the world wild cattle and deer rely on kelp as a main food source during parts of the year. The only reason there aren't gobs of studies showing how good it is is because there isn't any money in funding the research. I assure you, the oceans are far less polluted than almost anywhere on land, because they are protected by the universal brine of life, which is about the same as the mineral composition of our blood, which apparently to you is poison... on land most of the living soil is dead and that compromises the mineral cations in the soil, tying up trace minerals and exposing us to more lead, flouride, aluminum and amonia than can be found in "polluted" ocean water. Yes the ocean is polluted, but not that much more than it ever has been. It is the source of life. You make a mockery of yourself by labeling it as poison.

Not to mention that humanity itself most likely evolved eating a large portion of sea foods and historically almost everyone who could get seafood ate it in quantity, even if other types of foods were plentiful.

I would eat seafood as a large part of my diet along with my partners if I were ever to help conceive a child and a young child also should have access to seafood as a regular part of their diet. Probably the best food for remineralizing bodies, bones and teeth, protecting from toxins and feeding minds. If not the best food of all.


Also, whenever I eat food with any regular salt in it, I get really really thirsty and feel like drinking a lot of water. If I don't drink the water I would feel terrible so I drink up. At a normal restaurant this would probably mean 4-8 glasses of water.

It was drinking water that killed a marathon runner. His blood was so diluted that it no longer had enough minerals in it to keep his heart beating.
The trick is to drink something that contains enough electrolytes.

BTW, Dr. Hal Huggins found that dried seawater is not good for the blood, but pickling/canning salt causes no bad changes. This from blood work done on his patients, and their experience.

I'm drinking distilled + picking salt, at ~1/2 to 1 teaspoon/day.

Omg you have got to be out of your mind, that is so counter intuitive and from everything I have learned and experienced could not possibly be true that salt is healthy and kelp is unhealthy. Did the blood work test for EVERYTHING? How was this kelp dried? Cooked kelp likely may be harmful as it has very high levels of minerals that could lose their cations and become toxic when heated.

Thorvin kelp is the highest quality kelp you can get for livestock. They also have human grade products. It is harvested sustainably in Iceland and dried using geothermal energy at low heat to preserve the quality.

I rarely eat kelp because I probably make better use of the iodine coming out of my animals who are eating kelp than I do, though I do eat pinches here and there when I am feeding the animals.

Seeing the results on my animals first hand by using kelp I have to beg to differ.




Personally I rarely drink water, albeit I drink plenty of raw milk most of the time. Only when it is very hot out and I am doing physical labor do I become to take some small gulps of water. I rarely use salt and when I do it is small pinches of hand harvested sea salt.

I'm pretty into the glass of water, tablespoon of honey, tablespoon of apple cider vinegar which was an idea out of "Vermont Folk Medicine" to go along with a meal. Aids in digestion.

So ur saying pot may cure hpv? THis may make sense since the smoke would be touching the area of your throat that was infected.

There have been several studies that show that THC reduces the size of tumors and HPV is a tumor so that would make sense. I have read advice to use marijuana tincture topically for herpes.

My 8 month old bull last year was freakin delicious. Though I hung it for 2 weeks and it was definitely much better after being hung. Albeit it didn't exactly taste like ordinary beef, more of a cross between beef and pork.

I'm sorry I can't figure out what you meant by ROI. Oh never mind, return on investment.

Yes, it is a good time to get in, though prices on cows is steep right now, it is probably soon to get even steeper. Cattle prices were the highest ever last summer and they will probably only go up for at least another 2 years.

Saw somewhere claim that the American herd is the lowest it's been in 60 years.


I dunno I think the flavor problems with the baby beef are probably a combo of the whole butchering process being semi inferior and the "watered down effect".

Like with milk of goats and cows, some make really creamy milk and some make watery milk. While everyone prefers creamier, the watery milk isn't bad per say, but if you switch from creamy milk to watery milk it will taste bad until you get used to it. I usually drink my cows milk and most goat's milk practically tastes like water in comparison, though some of my goats make even more creamy milk than the cows do.

Don't eat baby beef expecting prime beef, expect baby beef. I would definitely prefer regular beef, but I wouldn't pass up baby beef at all and I don't think it tastes bad by any means.

Though I could be wrong, perhaps the baby beef you guys had did suck. Mine was a Jersey and Jerseys are known for their excellent flavor. Jerseys also mature much quicker than the average breed.

That sounds great!!! I'm in, but I'm mostly useless for the next 2 years  . Then, I'll have free time for about 2-3 week intervals, every 2-3 months. Until then, I could manage a road trip you are 10-15 hrs from Syr. I couldn't do more than visit and turn around. Would you happen to be surrounded by rolling hills and woodlands? What is the nearest town?

It is sort of jagged flat. Not more than ten or fifteen feet changes in elevation. It's near to Alpena. The surrounding area is probably a good deal more than half wooded.

I had HPV on my vocal cords for 9 + years of my life. Had 8 or 9 operations where they used anaesthesia to put me under. Didn't go away until right around the time I started smoking pot when I was 17.