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Messages - TylerDurden

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Primal Diet / Re: Aajonus' Conspiracy Theories
« on: June 04, 2018, 04:49:30 am »
Reductio ad absurdum:- The more gullible among us will certainly appreciate this conspiracy theory:-

Off Topic / Re: Give us a laugh !
« on: June 03, 2018, 08:38:55 pm »

I rather like the idea of Hannibal Lecter here being a sort of spokesperson for cooked food diets......

Off Topic / Curious re RPDers reports on long-term water-fasting
« on: June 03, 2018, 07:34:44 pm »
I was wondering if RPDers here could report on how fast they lost weight on an RPD diet while doing long-term water-fasting(7 days or more)? I myself am starting  a long-term  water-fast, while using my infrad light therapy machine to help boost my metabolism. I am also doing some daily kettlebell training. I am avoiding all supplements, all food, just drinking water.Not even using essential oils in case they might disrupt ketosis/fat-burning.Anyway, I suspect that people on a RPD diet tend to report losing weight at a faster rate on a long-term water fast if overweight, compared to cooked-food-eaters.

It is interesting to note that humans, uniquely among the primates so far considered, appear to have stomach pH values more akin to those of carrion feeders than to those of most carnivores and omnivores.

Definition of carrion feeder: Any animal that feeds on dead and rotting flesh.

Gastric acidity is likely a key factor shaping the diversity and composition of microbial communities found in the vertebrate gut. The study conducted a systematic review to test the hypothesis that a key role of the vertebrate stomach is to maintain the gut microbial community by filtering out novel microbial taxa before they pass into the intestines. The study proposes that species feeding either on carrion or on organisms that are close phylogenetic relatives should require the most restrictive filter (measured as high stomach acidity) as protection from foreign microbes. Conversely, species feeding on a lower trophic level or on food that is distantly related to them (e.g. herbivores) should require the least restrictive filter, as the risk of pathogen exposure is lower. Comparisons of stomach acidity across trophic groups in mammal and bird taxa show that scavengers and carnivores have significantly higher stomach acidities compared to herbivores or carnivores feeding on phylogenetically distant prey such as insects or fish. In addition, the study found when stomach acidity varies within species either naturally (with age) or in treatments such as bariatric surgery, the effects on gut bacterial pathogens and communities are in line with our hypothesis that the stomach acts as an ecological filter. Together these results highlight the importance of including measurements of gastric pH when investigating gut microbial dynamics within and across species.


In total, the studies' literature search yielded data on 68 species (25 birds and 43 mammals) from seven trophic groups (Table 1). A general linear model based on diet explained much of the variation in the stomach pH (R2 = 0.63, F1,6 = 17.63, p < 0.01). The trophic groups that were most variable in terms of their stomach pH were omnivores and carnivores that specialize in eating insects or fish.

The studies' hypothesis was that foregut-fermenting herbivores and animals that feed on prey more phylogenetically–distant from them would have the least acidic stomachs. Tukey-Kramer comparisons indicated that scavengers (both obligate and facultative) had significantly higher stomach acidities compared to herbivores (both foregut and hindgut) and specialist carnivores feeding on phylogenetically distant prey. Specifically, foregut-fermenting herbivores had the least acidic stomachs of all trophic groups while omnivores and generalist carnivores, with more intermediate pH levels, were not distinguishable from any other group (Fig 1).

The special case of herbivory

Carrion feeding imposes one sort of constrain on the ecology of the gut, an increase in the potential for pathogens. Herbivory imposes another, the need to digest plant material refractory to enzymatic digestion (cellulose and lignin). In order to digest these compounds, herbivores rely disproportionately on microbial processes. Different regions of the gastrointestinal tract (either rumen, caecum or in the case of the hoatzin a folded crop) function primarily as fermentation chambers. Thus, a challenge with fermentative guts is favoring those microbes that are useful for digestion while reducing the risk of pathogen entry into the gut. The study suggests that because the threat of microbial pathogens is relatively low on live leaves , herbivores can afford to maintain a chamber that is modestly acidic and therefore less restrictive to microbial entry. However, it finds several interesting exceptions to this generality. Beavers, which are known to store food caches underwater where there is a high risk of exposure to a protozoan parasite Giardia lamblia, have very acidic stomachs. The high stomach acidity may have evolved to manage this prevalent environmental pathogen. The other herbivore in our dataset with a very acidic stomach is the rabbit, which provides an interesting example of a behavioral modification of the stomach environment. Rabbits are known to engage in frequent coprophagy which allows them re-inoculate themselves with microbes. The specialized soft pellets that house microbes also reduce the stomach acidity creating an environment suitable for fermentation.

Human evolution and stomach pH

It is interesting to note that humans, uniquely among the primates so far considered, appear to have stomach pH values more akin to those of carrion feeders than to those of most carnivores and omnivores. In the absence of good data on the pH of other hominoids, it is difficult to predict when such an acidic environment evolved. Baboons (Papio spp) have been argued to exhibit the most human–like of feeding and foraging strategies in terms of eclectic omnivory, but their stomachs–while considered generally acidic (pH = 3.7)–do not exhibit the extremely low pH seen in modern humans (pH = 1.5). One explanation for such acidity may be that carrion feeding was more important in humans (and more generally hominin) evolution than currently considered to be the case. Alternatively, in light of the number of fecal-oral pathogens that infect and kill humans, selection may have favored high stomach acidity, independent of diet, because of its role in pathogen prevention.

The human stomach and the loss of mutualistic microbes

In general, stomach acidity will tend to filter microbes without adaptations to an acidic environment. Such adaptations include resistant cell walls, spore-forming capabilities or other traits that confer tolerance to high acidities and rapid changes in pH conditions. The study considered the role of the stomach as a pathogen barrier within the context of human evolution. Another potential consequence of high stomach acidity, when considered in light of other primates and mammals, is the difficulty of recolonization by beneficial microbes. A large body of literature now suggests that a variety of human medical problems relate to the loss of mutualistic gut microbes, whether because those mutualists failed to colonize during hyper-clean C-section births or were lost through use of antibiotics, or other circumstances. The pH of the human stomach may make humans uniquely prone to such problems. In turn, it might be expected that, among domesticated animals, that similar problems should be most common in those animals that, like humans, have very acidic stomachs.

The special risk to juvenile and elderly humans

If, in carnivores and carrion-feeders, the stomach’s role is to act as an ecological filter then it would also be expected to see higher microbial diversity and pathogen loads in cases where stomach pH is higher. We see evidence of this in age-related changes in the stomach. Baseline stomach lumen pH in humans is approximately 1.5 (it can go down to 1) (Table 1). However, premature infants have less acidic stomachs (pH > 4) and are susceptibility to enteric infections. Similarly, the elderly show relatively low stomach acidity ( pH 6.6 in 80% of study participants) and are prone to bacterial infections in the stomach and gut. It is important to note that these differences may be related to differences in the strength of the immune system however it is argued here that the stomach needs more consideration when studying these patterns.


The study demonstrates that stomach acidity increases with the risk of food-borne pathogen exposure and propose that the stomach plays a significant role as an ecological filter and thus a strong selection factor in gut microbial community structure and primate evolution in particular. In light of modern lifestyle changes in diet, hygiene and medical interventions that alter stomach pH, we suggest that stomach acidity in humans is a double-edged sword. On one hand, the high acidity of the human stomach prevents pathogen exposure but it also decreases the likelihood of recolonization by beneficial microbes if and when they go missing. However, in those cases where acidity is reduced, the gut is more likely to be colonized by pathogens. Though it is widely discussed in both the medical and ecological literature, data on pH are actually very scarce. Thus, to fully understand the patterns highlighted here more detailed studies on the gut microbiota across stomach acidities and diet are required.

Excellent find! I'm putting this in a permanent sticky of some sort. Thanks for making a bit of an effort re research.

Off Topic / Re: Radioactive boars
« on: June 01, 2018, 11:06:34 am »
Yes people, some of them relatives, told me in highly gullible tones that Czernobyl had a huge radioactive fallout over Europe. This was absolute rubbish, with Irish farmers making bogus claims that their sheep had been contaminated by radiation from Czernobyl. Some here even foolishly cited Fukushima as being dangerous to the US West Coast. I had to explain how radiation is present in natural amounts in the worlds oceans, in rocks(eg:- Aberdeen), and how, when radiation is dispersed over a wide area or diluted in the world's oceans, it's nothing to worry about. Yet, I had an Italian neighbour who foolishly fell into this scam of inviting a poor Ukrainian boy from the Czernobyl area - god the Ukrainians must have laughed their heads  off at such liberal foolishness.

As we see, any massive reduction in human numbers inevitably leads to  a large rise in the wildlife population. I recall that the US once set up a national park in the ocean, with fishing  wholly banned in the area. The result was that fishermen fishing near that area experienced  a sudden rise in catches in future years. Basically, humans are bad for the environment/Nature. Radioactivity is not to blame.

Off Topic / Re: worms eating plastic
« on: June 01, 2018, 10:55:57 am »
So it's not that they live and thrive off plastic, but that they can eat and somewhat decompose it if forced to.

It has limited potential, but it's a start.
Livin Farms also had some funghi which can digest plastic, plus some scientists have now discovered some bacteria which can do so as well. Given the mass propaganda in the media right now about plastic in the oceans, which never arose before, there must be a lot of money/profit involved somehow.

Health / Re: Curing Anxiety/ Depression with Raw Paleo
« on: June 01, 2018, 01:41:03 am »
Other very important recommendations:- try the alpha-stim gadget, it really works against anxiety, and also try using near-infrared light therapy(joov or, better yet, red light man devices). I guarantee they will have some positive effect. Diets can solve a lot, but cannot deal with things like brain-damage.

General Discussion / Re: Raw Cod Liver? Has anyone tried it?
« on: June 01, 2018, 12:51:51 am »
You don't like the eyes?
If I don't notice them because they are too small, then no problem - too big and the eyes and head seem indigestible. Otherwise, there is the issue of scales which I cannot stand..

General Discussion / Re: Raw Cod Liver? Has anyone tried it?
« on: June 01, 2018, 12:04:24 am »
tbh, I always find the raw liver in fish to taste way too bitter. As a result, I only ever eat whole fish in the form of very small, fatty fish like sardines. Otherwise I just stick to the muscle-meat of most fish.

Science / Neolithic wars
« on: May 31, 2018, 07:34:03 am »

I am wondering if constant warfare was also prevalent in the Palaeolithic era. Sounds rather likely. HG tribes are often portrayed in line with the Noble Savage theory, such as Native Americans for example, but archaeological research etc. showed them indulging in endless wars prior to Columbus arriving.

Off Topic / Carbon monoxide in sushi
« on: May 30, 2018, 09:31:34 pm »

Sashimi really is a better alternative. I wish there was a genuine Sashimi restaurant in Vienna as in London.

Primal Diet / Re: Aajonus' Conspiracy Theories
« on: May 30, 2018, 01:15:46 pm »
Max Stirner  taught mankind that we are all slaves and always have been(and particularly since the Neolithic era). We are all variously enslaved by various entities, such as the Government, God, one's own family, one's friends, the companies who have successfully convinced us to buy their products via advertising, international organisations such as the UN and the EU  etc. etc. This is hardly a  secret conspiracy, just the facts. But, like Van said re that Monsanto quote, to assume that any  of the people in charge of/dominating anyone else to be somehow super-intelligent and following some intelligent plan is laughable.Mankind simply isn't that bright and the Fermi Paradox proves the point. Anyway, I think we ought to steer clear of Aajonus' more wacky "theories" and drop this subject. They were obviously designed to appeal to the rich residents of Malibu, California, and we all know the saying that rich people have more money than sense.....

Primal Diet / Re: Aajonus' Conspiracy Theories
« on: May 30, 2018, 03:19:04 am »
While there are plenty of conspiracy theories around, some absurd and laughable(re Velikovsky et al)  and some rather obvious unless one is either  retarded or insane, I do think one  should avoid them on a board of forums devoted to diet-related issues unless there is a direct correlation of some sort.

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